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Just post my name for why you never go full white wolf. Let my madness be a cautionary tale, for the choldren.
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Apr 10, 2015 01:27
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So, here's something I noticed on a flick through my files. In 1995, the town of Evanstown, Connecticut - population of 543 - was wiped out, with one survivor. The population suddenly went berserk, killing each other, and then died of a filovirus believed to be an airborne strain of Ebola Zaire - one that 'replicates itself so thoroughly in the host that the host is partially transformed into a virus'. Could be progenitors, could be Pentex, could be just plain bad luck, buuut... The Tzimisce methuselah Demdemdeh, from Africa, is believed by Tzimisce involved in Biopreparat in the 80s to have transformed himself into Ebola. I wonder if it was a deliberate callback to the Evanstown incident. Even if not, it's certainly something you could link for a game. Obviously Evanstown was a Crazies reference, but still.
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Apr 10, 2015 06:49
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Mexcillent posted:You loving dummy. Everyone in the oWoD has two souls. This was the position they took later on, after someone pointed out how loving insane they were being - there was zero equivalency given initially, and they were presented as sharp, fundamental distinctions.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:21
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MalcolmSheppard posted:The fact that the P'o is equivalent to the Shadow goes back to Dark Kingdom of Jade in 1995, predating KotE. DKoJ was a little less clear on equivalency, as I recall. EDIT: Having checked, it's as I remember. While functionally the same, the Hun and P'o are presented as fundamentally distinct souls while the shadow is an innate part of the unitary soul. Loomer fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Apr 11, 2015 |
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Apr 11, 2015 01:11
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MalcolmSheppard posted:If they're functionally the same, the rest is perspective. KotE has the Yin World too, which is "functionally the same" as the Shadowlands because it's the Shadowlands, even though it's presented differently. Except being treated as functionally the same for mechanical purposes does not equal being the same - if that was the case, there would be no actual difference between a Gift and a Discipline because they've both been used to represent the same things. DKoJ maintains a binary soul as opposed to the unitary soul of core Wraith of the same era, which is an important distinction that you're trying to gloss over. The PG, released the same year, has a similar distinction - Hun and P'o remain distinct from, if analogous, to the Psyche/Shadow. The divide was increasingly bridged over as things went, but it was there and distinct at the start.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:18
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Kuei-jin aren't really Risen either, though. The Kuei sort of are, but the Kuei-jin are too distinct from both Cainites and Risen to be readily classed as either.
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Apr 11, 2015 02:46
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MonsieurChoc posted:Wait, what did they do? Are all my V:tES Laibon decks invalid now? Introduced some new African bloodlines (and/or completely distinct creatures that happen to share the common traits of generation, etc): -the Bonsam, who consider themselves distinct from both the Laibon and Cainites and are either an Akunansae or Nosferatu offshoot, if not a wholly different kind. -The Impundulu, a Laibon lineage intimately linked with mortal Revenant magicians. -The Ramanga, Madagascar's Vampires who share obtenebration with the Lasombra.
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Apr 11, 2015 06:13
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Does anyone happen to recall the online-only chapters of Hunter: Apocrypha, or have them available? EDIT: You know, I really can't stress how much the series Utopia is ideal for WoD inspiration, both new and old. For Demon, you have your world of paranoia, overwhelming forces that can and will do anything to track and destroy you, the sinister machinations of a globe-spanning conspiracy that operates on the highest theoretical levels, and your hyper-realism. For oMage you have... all of those things again, plus direct examples of what's wrong with the Technocracy. And then you have the soundtrack, which is unique, but could be readily exploited for Demon especially. This isn't an ideal link - a bunch of the tracks include voice overs, etc, - but it's a good idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsJXfkOlCLw It's also one of the most bizarre soundtracks to a show I've heard in a while, too, since it seems to do everything you're not meant to do when you're scoring telly. Loomer fucked around with this message at 11:31 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 08:20
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MonsieurChoc posted:*Sigh* Remember early nWoD, where fiction was either really creepy mysterious stuff with no explanations (like the original God-Machine thing) or Greg Stolze being great? And then it devolved into grimdark "everyone dies horribly and no one wins and BvD" stuff? And now it's back to oWoD level of terrible? Time is a flat circle. The grand irony of it is the revived oWoD products don't seem to be falling into the same trap. Perhaps even oChangeling's anniversary edition will be good and free of the cycle! (It won't. They won't do a huge, radical revision like it loving needs, let alone incorporate the more interesting, more complex stuff they could be doing.)
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Apr 13, 2015 03:34
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pospysyl posted:Tbf most of Lore of the Clans is terrible. goddamnit. I never read the pre-release text since I'd rather wait for the art, etc. What in particular stands out? tatankatonk posted:Marian Apparition (*) Goddamnit.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:09
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I'm uneasy about Beast myself, to be honest. But I spend my days at a law school surrounded by broken people with serious emotional problems and then go home and read old White Wolf stuff, so I may not be unbiased.
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Apr 14, 2015 01:28
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Reading through the oDemon short story collection and I forgot how good some of the stories in it are, and how loving insanely bad things got in LA by the end of the oWoD. Cannibalism! Mass torture and killings! Indiscriminate shootings by the National Guard! No bloody wonder the Anarchs were open to a Camarilla prince moving in for Bloodlines.
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Apr 15, 2015 02:53
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Ferrinus posted:Yes, but Beasts are fundamentally part of the World of Darkness, and To be fair, weird rear end monsters and poo poo is a fundamental part of the World of Darkness - but as things for Hunters to kill or to freak vampires the gently caress out, not as PCs.
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Apr 16, 2015 08:28
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For the best, too, with how poo poo it was turning out.
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Apr 17, 2015 05:09
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To be fair, functional parkour would be loving amazing for people playing city Gangrel, Nosferatu, and Assamites.
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Apr 17, 2015 07:29
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The City Gangrel spread is really just 'gently caress Brujah', to be honest.
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Apr 17, 2015 07:50
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I think it's a close tie between Lucien Soulban and a man literally named Satyros for most oWoD character name IRL.
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Apr 18, 2015 03:14
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I've always liked blurring the line between a bloodline and a Bloodline, myself.
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Apr 19, 2015 09:00
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It's the transition from Laird Baron to Thomas Ligotti in tone, really. LB is often pulpy, things get done, and while struggling is usually futile, it's at least an option. TL... Not so much. Inevitability and entropy become dominant.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:17
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A similar effect may be achieved by wild dancing after ingesting six nips of whiskey over a couple of hours, mixed with greasy, badly cooked steak and sausages and a lot of weed.
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Apr 27, 2015 17:37
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No one will ever convince me that this is not how they make new Cultists of Ecstasy in the oWoD. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMUDVMiITOU
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May 5, 2015 07:48
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Man, the official forums have a lot of people who think the Setites and Baali are completely redundant.
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May 17, 2015 09:37
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The amount of work needed to unfuck CtD would alienate the entire extant CtD fanbase. We'd be talking about a fundamentally different game than the one they like, which means it'd be a failure as an anniversary edition, so unfortunately I'm pretty certain that C20 will be more of the same, right down to a lot of very strange design decisions, poorly executed but interesting ideas, downright AUG poo poo, and so many missed opportunities in favour of a generic fairy-land theme that anyone with half a passing interest will sit down and shake their heads in sadness.
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May 17, 2015 10:47
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In this particular case, going full White Wolf is the AUG poo poo.
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May 17, 2015 12:43
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Pope Guilty posted:Is there anything other than system issues preventing neatly excising C:tD and dropping Lost into the OWOD in its place? Not really, no. Changeling is one of the least connected, least impactful lines in the setting. That's part of its problem, really - it thematically doesn't quite fit, and while that's not a big deal, it doesn't help when combined with the other problems. I do enjoy having the Changelings play a much larger role in my own spin on the setting, but they're a fairly different spin on things and a lot of their powers can affect other supernaturals more readily, and vice versa.
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May 19, 2015 05:24
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Glad I went for the Quintessence edition to resell later. This is gonna be like nerd cocaine in a couple of years. Also I definitely haven't forgotten that Mage game I'm meant to be running, expect a big-rear end intro post soon(tm).
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May 20, 2015 02:05
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To celebrate the return of the 90s Technocracy, have some NWO material. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o64NGQsZzCI
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May 20, 2015 07:16
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You know, while the film Noah wasn't all that good, the scenes where Noah sneaks into the siege camp feels completely on the money for what a lupus garou wandering into the First City would experience.
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May 20, 2015 12:52
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If that happens, gently caress it. I've got a shiny book.
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May 20, 2015 13:42
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If you're going to use Nephandi you owe it to yourself and your players to read Thomas Ligotti's work.
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May 21, 2015 04:52
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Pope Guilty posted:Rustin Cohle: Willworker. Rustin Cohle is clearly a lone-operative Imbued with no connections or awareness of the greater Hunter world, duh. (I am so thankful for True Detective it's not even funny. Hearing they dropped the occultism and southern gothic elements for season two hurt me in a way a tv show should not be able to do.) Loomer fucked around with this message at 04:59 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 04:56
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Laird Barron's work is a bigger influence but a less acknowledged one. Some of Ligotti's stuff is almost verbatim for Cohle's best lines - there was a kerfuffle over that at the time - but the overall theme is closer to the pulpier but no less weird/unnerving stuff that Barron does. He's a one-eyed Alaskan man, Iditarod racer and former bering sea fisherman. His stuff is absolutely brilliant in a way Ligotti's isn't - it's visceral, pulpy in the best way, and connected while Ligotti's fiction is a lot more detached and disconnected. The two together are a winning combination. I actually would wholeheartedly recommend them both as generally good reading for running a WoD game of either version. Barron actually had a line in one of his works that I really like for VtM's constant refrain of Gehenna. Just grabbed my copy and here it is, with added Goya:  He roused from a joyous dream of feasting, of drinking blood and sucking warm marrow from the bone. His sons and daughters swarmed like ants upon the surface of the Earth, ripe in their terror, delectable in their anguish. He swept them into his mouth and their insides ran in black streams between his lips and matted his beard. This sweet dream rapidly slipped away as he stretched and assessed his surroundings. He shambled forth from the great cavern in the mountain that had been his home for so long. Moonlight illuminated the ruined plaza of the city on the mountainside. He did not recognize the configuration of the stars and this frightened and exhilarated him. During his eons’ sleep, trees had burst through cracks in paving stones. He squatted to sniff the leaves, to tear them with his old man’s snaggle teeth, and relish the taste of bitter sap. His lover approached, as naked and ancient as himself, and laid her hand upon his shoulder. They embraced in silent communion as the sun ate through the moon and bathed the city in its hideous blood-red glare. The couple’s shadows stretched long and dark over the all tiny houses and all the tiny works of men. That's from The Beautiful Thing That Awaits Us All, one of his short story collections.
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May 21, 2015 05:09
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Pope Guilty posted:My favorite thing about True Detective is that the series creator seems convinced that the occult elements were merely set dressing and that expecting them to pay off in any way was silly and unreasonable because obviously it was just a regular cop show using occult trappings for atmosphere. See I don't object to that approach to things. I found it actually paid off in its own right, because the reality is that occultism is almost never a clear matter unless you dedicate a lot of time to unraveling the twisted thought processes involved, coming from someone who does a lot of study in that field. Cohle and Hart simply didn't have the eyes to see or the ears to hear anything more than the immediate surface, and the idea of being an ordinary (or, in Cohle's case, a close-to-ordinary) man thrust into the middle of something that could be mere madness or be something much worse is its own special breed of horror. It's being a blind man stumbling through a dark room filled with strange sounds and scents that you can't quite figure out. I would have loved to have seen that with the initial pitch for season 2, where it was going to look at the secret occult history and patterns of the US transit system. There's a loving ton you could do there with that theme while still being, largely, a regular (if exceptionally well written) cop show. Season 2 now is looking like it'll be a good watch as a cop show but a disappointment as a follow-up to Cohle and Marty, and as a regular cop show it has to compete with The Bridge et al.
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May 21, 2015 05:24
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I agree on the Pizzolato front. Have you read his book, Galveston? It wasn't particularly good, I thought. I think it's very odd actually that he's backing away as fast as he can from the stand-out character's basic elements. Cohle wasn't an instant hit because he was a great cop, charismatic, etcetera. He was a great hit because an outright anti-natalist alcoholic detective is (while an old idea at this point) something fairly unique on TV, and he was played perfectly. But then I remember that Pizzolato 'stole' (I think it was more case of inadvertant lifting, myself) a lot of what made Cohle Cohle directly from Ligotti, nearly word for word, and it becomes less surprising. It's not going to be good for his career if he can't actually produce an experience as unique and acclaimed as True Detective's first season again - this early in his career, if he becomes known as a once-off without his own ability to make outstanding television, he's completely hosed. So I think his retreat might really be an attempt to play to his own perceived strengths of writing crime shows and stories since Cohle and the occult element maybe weren't actually him.
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May 21, 2015 05:44
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Well, it's more that the new Void Engineers are very 'holy gently caress we have much bigger problems right now' in the new book. Their hard edges are going to eventually turn on everyone else once Threat Null is dealt with - they're still very much committed to the Technocratic paradigms, and they are probably now the single most militarized faction within the Union. Sons of Ether and the Euthanatoi get a pass because they have a common enemy and they can't ask the Union for help, but eventually that won't be the case. It's one of the big tragedies of their Revised book - the original VEs who were the most open, pragmatic and approachable convention, the most willing to work with others, are pretty much gone now. There are glimpses left, but they're in danger of being lost forever.
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May 21, 2015 14:04
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And the conceit that the Mafia's 'romantic' heyday never ended. So basically it's about a mafia that never actually existed, treating it like it did, and then filling it with bad stereotypes and poorly written Mario Puzo riffs.
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May 24, 2015 16:34
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On that note of different reactions, the best crime group in the oWoD is Sapa Inca, a Colombian drug cartel operating in Detroit that's wiped the city clean of vampires and is setting up limbs in most major cities. Picture MS-13, the Medellins or the Sinaloa Cartel, only they use machetes and flamethrowers to kill vampires as well as journalists and rivals. Of course they revealed they were secretly masterminded by the anarchs originally but they've gone completely rogue and do their own thing. The hilarious part is that in a couple of years, a violent drug cartel did more to make the streets of Detroit safer than the Imbued managed in over a decade, all without the benefit of supernatural sight or healing gifts or magic powers to better kill monsters. All they had was a few tips and some narco cult rituals. What's real scary is they also do a lot of outreach IIRC to other, even rival, gangs and cartels about the undead scourge behind the scenes. I can't think of anything more terrifying for vampires than a large, world-spanning, streets-up movement that wants them dead and has spent decades learning how to wage an asymmetrical war and which is largely out of reach of the Camarilla stand-bys of police and government manipulation. They're well armed, able to operate in the daylight, and loving fearless because they're all snorting cocaine and preying to Santa Muerte before a fight. It's oWoD as gently caress and I love.
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May 24, 2015 17:09
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Blood and Betrayal dropped today. I am one page in and it's already some peak oWoD. Weird bald dude? check. Bondage gear? Check. hosed up teeth, not discounting two front teeth as fangs? Check. That is their frontispiece. EDIT: The continuing official incorporation of years of unofficial LARP stuff is baffling me sometimes. It's making it a very different setting from both V20 and Revised, which is a pain in the rear end for the Project. Some of it's great, some of it is... Substantially less so. Loomer fucked around with this message at 09:58 on May 27, 2015 |
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May 27, 2015 07:20
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I think some of Matt's personal hangups from being involved in the fetish scene might be coming through. I don't normally leap to ascribe that sort of thing but what I'm reading so far is really quite strongly suggesting it to me.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:18
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The strong sense of retaliation against persecution is a big give away. There's a huge chip on a lot of shoulders in the fetish world about that issue (and it's not a completely imagined issue, either) and the combination of 'yeah gently caress those normies!' and some of the specific language being used is setting off my radar.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:35
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