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Attorney at Funk posted:I don't think XP chargen is important anymore, even if it is Etherwind's crowning contribution to our community (RIP Etherwind). I'll tell you what, though, I could do without the massive post of bad White Wolf writing. I don't know who that's for, exactly. The OP is a resource for people interested in learning about the games, who needs a post that rivals all the others for length full of reasons you should be embarrassed to play? That the older games used to be really really bad in some areas is a thing that people should be aware of, particularly when they're talking with other people about the game. I didn't get into Werewolf until revised so when people started harping on me for liking a game with neo-nazis or dick-ripping lesbian feminists or toothed volcano vaginas I was reasonably confused.
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Apr 9, 2015 18:42
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MalcolmSheppard posted:Can't see one of the reviews. The other one just gives it a "meh." CoG 1st edition is the one that garnered a "meh", CoG Revised is the one with the all-tribal moot at woodstock '99, the werewolves being attacked by the evil wyrm tainted industrialists at the WTO Conference, the ritual that requires sex in Crinos form, the children of Gaia claiming about 17 different historical figures(including Jesus) as either Children of Gaia or Children of Gaia kinfolk, and the claim that the only reason the other tribes are angry at them is because they're jealous about all the free love and gay sex that they're having. That's just what I can remember off the top of my head. The First edition Black Furies book paints the tribe in a much more stark light, amongst other things suggesting that they should only take mates from males raised by other Black Furies or their kinfolk because "They know their place" and that the Judeo-christian god is actually a Wyrm Spirit named Patriarchy who was created by men to keep women humble and to teach them that their nakedness was sinful. There's also a canon NPC named "Ball-Biter" who runs with a pack in Sydney killing men because they might be potential rapists. I'll admit that "Dick Ripping Femnists" may have been a bit too much of a hyperbole but their First Edition portrayal was not good.
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Apr 10, 2015 20:45
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Xelkelvos posted:Cool, but also kinda dumb. If Beasts were to also be a universal antagonist, that'd be a nifty thing for their docket. But for a splat that's said to "play well with others" that one exception needs more explanation than meta reasons or because. I'm not sure why Demons are getting singled out here, and the "BECAUSE WE SAID SO!" reasons are just perplexing.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:42
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Mors Rattus posted:Collectors are also funny to me because there are two ways a Collector can feed. First, they can get a new piece for their hoard. Paying for it doesn't work, though, unless what they pay is significantly less than the item's value - the point, after all, is to gain, not buy. But the other method is by stopping people who want to take their hoard. So the honey trap is one of the more reliable methods of feeding as a Collector. (There is no actual loss of Satiety for giving a piece away or letting a piece leave - some Collectors collect people, after all - but it bothers the hell out of them. One of the example Collectors is a woman who runs a home for runaways, and her view is that she's collecting them and keeping them safe. She struggles with the desire to keep them and the knowledge that some day, she has to let them go. She solves this dilemma by trying to get newer, better runaways whenever someone leaves.) I've got this mental image of a game store owner with a single Super Famicom cart of Chrono Trigger that's suspiciously unsecured.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:58
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GimpInBlack posted:You're welcome. You are forever haunted by a spectre of your high-school-aged self humming the intro riff to "Bittersweet Symphony"
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Apr 14, 2015 14:58
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Mors Rattus posted:Clearly we need a gameline for playing that one dude from the GMC, the fly-headed man who orders pizza. Baxter: The Stockmaning?
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Apr 14, 2015 18:19
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How does a demon get their first cover in the first place then? How do they get from "Running away from god" to "Hiding inside an edgar suit"?
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Apr 15, 2015 00:26
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Attorney at Funk posted:Wrong, everyone knows the tribal ban of the Blood Talons is "fight evil by moonlight, win love by daylight, never run from a real fight". Now I'm envisioning Fangor Bloodthane reciting the Sailor Moon themesong with all the serious of the litany and it is fantastic.
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Apr 15, 2015 04:08
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Yawgmoth posted:Oh, right. Gonna make a Beast that is Mewtwo and my Lair is gonna be a pixel-by-pixel copy of pokemon red. No no, Pokémon Gold, then they have top struggle through half the lair grinding on monsters half their level to get to you.
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Apr 16, 2015 14:19
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My favorite thing about CCP's downward spiral was their CEO trying to defend the 70 dollar monocle by claiming that it was a fashion statement on par with wearing 1000 dollar jeans in real life. Then saying that not buying the monocle was on par with wearing thrift store clothing.
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Apr 17, 2015 05:42
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Omnicrom posted:Who? From what little I know of him, he's basically a man that moves around from company to company coming up with bad ideas, forcing them into production, and then leaving someone else to salvage them into something workable while he moves on to the next
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Apr 17, 2015 05:59
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From what I heard it had entered alpha multiple times but it was barely recognizable as a world of darkness game. Someone described diablarie as eating their corpse whole to gain their power. Another alpha had a functional parkour engine like Assassin's creed.
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Apr 17, 2015 07:20
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Satyros didn't change his name until after Changing Breeds, though.
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Apr 18, 2015 03:31
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Wasn't that the plot of an episode of NUMB3RS? Someone was hacking people's GPS and making them drive into bad parts of town where they got murdered?
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Apr 20, 2015 20:24
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tatankatonk posted:Behold the creature of unimaginable nightmare, sprung from the formless fear of ancient man, a being of pure and temporary inconvenience So, First World Problems.com incarnate?
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Apr 21, 2015 00:04
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1E werewolf as printed read to me as "Everyone wants to kill you because you were born. This is all your fault. If you fail in your duty other people will show up and kill you. Good luck" which didn't exactly leave me wanting to explore the nuances of where to go from there.
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Apr 21, 2015 00:53
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As a werewolf though, you usually weren't supposed to be the one being creeped out. I understand that it got much better with supplementary material, but our group never really got that far, the only non-core book I've got for it is Blood of the Wolf, and that was because someone suggested it to me (it is a good book, but it's fairly setting agnostic for anything with werewolves)
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Apr 21, 2015 05:37
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Because you're the spiritual police pressed into service under threat of your own life? You normally don't have time to be creeped out when the poo poo you're dealing with is trying to kill you. I guess the Hosts are super creepy but that only really works once. I guess what I'm saying is "Oh god look at all this creepy poo poo the spirit world throws at you" can work for a shorter duration game, but once you've become inured to it both in and out of character then what's left?
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Apr 21, 2015 05:51
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Yes, and the 2nd edition book does a better job of getting that across, and is generally better in a lot of ways. I was talking about the 1st edition book and my experiences playing it, which weren't that good, and in one case involved the entire group being eaten by a car spirit.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:06
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tatankatonk posted:The creeping realization that you and everyone you care about is destined to die a violent and perhaps pointless death in the name of an insane and distant god Yeah. That's not really a game I want to play. The themes are the same but to me it was mostly a matter of presentation. The tribes in 1e were depicted as actively antagonistic. New werewolves were threats to be driven out or killed. Your painful death in failure and ignomy isn't just a worst case scenario it's an inevitability. Family and friends are attachments to be exploited by your enemies and should only be interacted with for breeding purposes. 2e shows the tribes as cooperative and willing to interact for the greater good, puts humans as an important part of a werewolf's life(and are less prone to dying horribly due to a botched roll unless you're imbalanced), and is generally more positive about your overall chances of success.
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Apr 21, 2015 06:37
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tatankatonk posted:Yeah, the creeping realization that you and everyone you care about is destined to die a violent and perhaps pointless death in the name of an insane and distant god I think that after a while the forsaken realize that whatever Luna wants out of the deal is mostly irrelevant. You hunt because you must, it's in your blood. If you die in the hunt then it was a good death, and hopefully your pack will avenge you.
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Apr 21, 2015 18:45
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Effectronica posted:Lair could be slang for "power levels" and you could read it with a scouter and it still would be ridiculous that the explorer splat has the sort of terminology that implies being sedentary This is also the splat where the Antagonists are named Heroes.
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Apr 22, 2015 21:53
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Ferrinus posted:Frankly, it's the Thyrsus more than anyone who could get away with being an embarrassing orgy cult in the first place. You can tell because their 1E writeup made them out to be, like, ardent environmentalists who think cities are corrupting influences. Verbenna is that you?
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Apr 23, 2015 20:44
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Luminous Obscurity posted:I asked in the comments, but just so everyone here is fully aware. They suddenly go flying off at a right angle to the surface of the earth and splatter on the nearest building?
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Apr 29, 2015 22:23
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RPZip posted:Turning off gravity wouldn't do that. That'd require screwing with inertia and momentum relative to the Earth. Right, but your inertia and momentum is trying to go in a straight line, earth's gravity is what's keeping you in a circle.
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Apr 29, 2015 22:52
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Werewolf's anti-science stuff is also something of a relic of 1st edition, mostly because 1st edition Werewolf put forth the idea that any level of human development beyond hunter/gatherer society is inherently evil. While at the same time having all the werewolf tribes pull off ridiculously out of character schemes and backstabbing machinations that would make a Ventrue blush.
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May 20, 2015 22:14
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Mexcillent posted:also since because Phil Brucato apparently hates oWoD revised his paradox chart is super lethal and all about st fiat You do realize that Brucato is basically the patron saint of "Magic and Faeries are Real" in the Old World of Darkness and any rule that makes mages less powerful probably didn't come from him, right?
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May 21, 2015 01:38
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Pope Guilty posted:The best part about the Technocracy and Werewolf is that the Technocracy is for some reason in deep with Pentex, because they're the bad guys, right? Ditto the Sabbat, despite the Wyrm being exactly the sort of thing the Sabbat burns people alive for being involved with. That was back before they had really worked out that the Weaver could, itself, be an enemy without actually meaning the Wyrm wasn't an enemy anymore. I think the idea of having two enemy factions might have popped poor MR*H's brain. I think the thing with the sabbat is more that almost everything the Sabbat does empowers the Wyrm, so they're aligned with the Wyrm whether they are aware of it or not. It's still better than the few 1st ed werewolf books that have the Sabbat and the Garou chumming around and sharing information like it ain't no thing.
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May 21, 2015 01:47
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Pope Guilty posted:The real issue is that it implies that a) the Camarilla aren't just as bad from a human perspective (they're basically a cancer gnawing away at the heart of human civilization and as the most powerful vampire faction are responsible for a lot of human misery) and b) the Sabbat are bad guys to the Camarilla's good guys, which is... seriously not right. Oh no, they're both horrific predators and walking embodiments of decay and suffering. It's just that one faction sort of pretends they're still the good guys and has semi functional relationships with a few werewolf tribes, and the other faction has shovelheads and people who go around wearing other peoples faces like masks stretched across their multiple piercings (Yes, that's an NPC in one of the Werewolf books)
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May 21, 2015 02:19
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Covok posted:Yeah, there is quite a bit of that from what I read in W:tA 20A. Like a lot. Like positive sterotypes are racism too, guys. The sad thing is that W:TA has come a long way since 1st edition and the magical natives who literally did not know disease or suffering until the evil Europeans showed up. But they can't really cut the Stereotribes loose without completely redoing all of the tribes from the ground up. Not that it would necessarily be a bad thing, but it wouldn't really be W:TA at that point. quote:What group are they? Sound like vampires. Seems odd for this game to have pure evil villians. Then again, the Wyrm. They're mages working for nameless entities that wish the unmaking of reality.
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May 21, 2015 04:48
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LatwPIAT posted:Speaking of fun Brucato: So Brucato's still beating that old drum? quote:From the Middle East came the Patriarch, the most insidious plot of the Wyrm, under many names in many forms. The bloody-minded Patriarch ripped the souls and battered the bodies of Woman in the name of his male gods. The Patriarch, the Incarna of jealous man and servant of Abhorra, the urge wyrm of hatred, promised man limitless power. For the sake of that power Man gladly bent everyone around him to the yoke of the Patriarch. Though the Patriarch's prophets spoke of kindness and good intentions, they crushed Woman beneath laws of ownership and myths of sin.
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May 21, 2015 16:38
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Vampires might not have asked to be vampires and I can still see them as more sympathetic than Beasts.
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Jun 2, 2015 21:52
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Androc posted:That chill you feel down your spine is the unquiet ghost of the lupus garou. Revised Tribebook: Red Talons was basically "No, see, they don't get the cognative dissonance, because they're wolves! That's the point!" written over and over again. There were a few bits where you got the sense that the Red Talons are just going through the motions of how they think wolves should act because they don't comprehend that they aren't entirely wolves anymore. And that line of thinking is causing the tribe to destroy itself from within. But even the sympathetic Red Talons don't achieve that leap of logic, stopping at "Well maybe we don't have to murder humans and bleed their entrails into the earth."
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Jun 2, 2015 22:42
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What is the "Failure State" of beast, what are you trying to prevent. Does your inner monster take over and go full Godzilla?
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Jun 3, 2015 00:21
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Just sitting here thinking for a while. Make it so that the beast soul is the bit that doesn't want *you*. You're an annoying bit of sentience that's attached to it's protrusion into our realm of reality. At some point you will die and it will take over, and you can sort of try and keep it at bay. It will slowly get more and more powerful, your goal, then, is to keep up. Because at some point you will fail. Your goal is at some point before then either figure out how to sever your connection, or turn the link back in on itself and take over the beast.. So like a backwards Promethean. It would also give the beasts some justifcation to hate and avoid hunters beyond "Those damned normies just don't understand how hard I got it." in "If that gently caress actually manages to kill me for real then everyone's hosed."
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Jun 3, 2015 01:57
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Dammit Who? posted:Beast is a game about being an abuser, but unlike Vampire it takes the traditional abuser's defenses (down to "actually, YOU'RE the abusive one!") entirely at face value. It's repulsive. I hadn't gone back to the RPG.net thread since Matt called me an MRA, but later on somebody brings up that Beast reminded him of domestic violence which he had a real problem with since his mom was a victim of that. He got a one-day probation and no other response. I don't know why McFarland has chosen this as his hill to die on, but he's defending Beasts and villanizing heroes way too much. Like the part about how Heroes are all explicitly bad people because if they get too moral they stop hearing the call of the hunt. Why? Because heroes are bad people.
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Jun 3, 2015 05:23
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pospysyl posted:Part of the problem is that this book is so obviously written by different authors with different ideas, in obvious ways. As mentioned, the Heroes section talks about their willpower and experience mechanics, which doesn't make any sense. The Storytelling advice section then gives instruction on how to portray Heroes and gives the Integrity advice again, stating that they didn't do it before because, as NPCs, it doesn't actually matter. The overall aims of each section also don't match up. The Heroes section begins with a rundown of mythical heroes and focuses on the horror of having your psyche bound into these archetypes. It does not work at all with the ST advice to portray them as fedora wearing MRAs. But don't you remember the story of Persecutus who slew the evil M'dusa for being a stone cold bitch and not putting out after he complemented her nice statue collection? I mean she was really ugly and should have been grateful that someone like him was even paying attention to her, even if it was with a mirror. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jun 3, 2015 |
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Jun 3, 2015 05:48
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I think my main problem is this. If your response to people finding your villain splat sympathetic (and in fact preferable to the player splat) is to codify the rules such that the villains are required to be reprehensible monstrous bastards to continue existing, you may want to rethink the fundamental assumptions of your game line. The fact that there are uncomfortable parallels to be drawn between real world oppressed groups and beasts is just icing on the cake of terrible that is this game.
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Jun 3, 2015 06:52
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Free Cog posted:I guess some folks must like it, though, cause it's been funded with an extra thousand as of right now. If my circle of friends is any indication, there are enough people who just want a complete core book collection, or are in the ttg media industry, to get the book published. There are also people who backed the book on instinct, and are going back to read it, resulting in a long, constant stream of "oh no, white wolf, honey, no."
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Jun 3, 2015 13:10
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Loomer posted:Rather worse, it's been very influenced by some of the earlier oWoD content. Late-era oWoD was beginning to become the WW that we all respect and Demon: the Fallen is still an incredible piece of work. The extremely simplistic approach of Beast is very much more of a 1E/2E oWoD style than it is the Revised era. In a few ways it reminds me of CtD and I think that may have something to do with the problems involved, as Blackhat is also on the force for C20. It seems like every 8 years or so they need to gently remind themselves that "There is a reason we did Revised". 2007 had
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Jun 3, 2015 15:19
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