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Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Warthur posted:

As I understand it 2nd edition makes it easier to do this because it emphasises that your keepers and your time in Arcadia wasn't necessarily a matter of full-on torture and abuse for the entire thing, and better teases out that idea that it might have taken the form of, say, getting stuck on a shelf like a doll and forgotten about for a subjective century or two, or whatever, and that Keepers aren't basically "Cenobites with fairy wings and glitter" but can come in a range of styles, not all of which is "All abuse all the time". Not yet read the thing so I may be wrong.

It was that way in 1e too, but it's fundamentally a psychologically damaging thing that one ultimately wants to escape. No one is gonna play one with a (at least to a given Lost) benign Keeper because they'd never leave.

There's also Loyalists who throw in for whatever reason they might have

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Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
The core (actually good) bits of Beast that should at least be considered to be salvageable are the ability to integrate with any splat and its heavier dealing with the Astral Plane and that side of the WoD cosmology. Everything else is pretty much tossable in a bin if only because the parts it came from were originally something poisonous and abhorrent and not just odd and slightly deranged like Changeling going from The Dreaming to The Lost.

Of course, Hunter is pretty well and good in being the former though there's not mechanical linkages for it.

MonsieurChoc posted:

I think it shows how beloved the WoD is that when a bad game got released fans try to save it somehow.

There is this though.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Bosushi! posted:

He’s listed as “Lead Storyteller” for the current iteration of White Wolf. I don’t think anyone has a 100% idea of who is responsible for what, but during his tenure as Lead Storyteller a number of troubling things have happened including; hiring Zak to write their Choose Your Own Adventure mobile game, a pedophile sample character in playtest documents, White Wolf dictating edits to a OPP written Werewolf sourcebook to includ transphobic poo poo, careless Nazi dogwhitles in the V5 text, a really gross take on the persecution of LGBT people in Chechnya, and other things that I’m sure I’ve forgotten.

Iirc on the details of the Chechnya thing, the passage was pretty much the standard oWoD "This splat is totally involved or capitalizing on this real world thing" and the big issue wasn't that it was gross, but that it was claiming it happened to begin with and which the country it happened in (Russia) vehemently denies and threatened legal action over it

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Kurieg posted:

It wasn't "This real world thing has vampires involved' it was "the vampires are doing this absolutely terrible thing and also the leader is a vampire" and there was nary a sidebar or notation that "Oh by the way this terrible thing is actually happening"
It was presented as this bizarre hyperbolic thing that a fictional bad guy was doing.

Ah, right. I wasn't sure if it extended that far in being that dumb or not and I forgot the side bar portion which is probably the bit that made it go from just gross to international incident.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
My Hardcover Scion books have arrived. Idk what I'll do with them right now, but I have them which is important.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
I'm aware of some of the system issues of Scion and just in case it doesn't work out for me, is there are PbtA hack that would possibly work with some of the setting and fluff of Scion?

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Nessus posted:

Can you summarize what the system issues are, because when it came up it seemed to be "this is self-evidently lovely" and I looked over at the game I'm in and it was like "hm, I am not sharing this qualitative experience."

The Legend points thing does seem like a substantial power hurdle but also like it was deliberately meant to make it so that going from legend 1 to legend 4 was a major upgrade even if they didn't hand you a ton of new powers along the way.

I think the limiting of power access, expenditure and recovery was the gripe I remember seeing from this thread.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

TheNamedSavior posted:

You literally just dismissed working with THE home base of the alt-right by saying "Nah, I've done worse." You're not rectifying mistakes, you're whitewashing them.

And they were ALWAYS homophobic, sexist, and racist as gently caress, trump gave them power, don't pretend like a cheeto person suddenly made them all hate gays. Stop pretending like you are clean of your actions, you had to have seen them saying "f*g" and *n**ger" over and over again many times, and it wasn't until shockingly you saw horrible people who say bigoted things reveal that they also do awful bigoted things as well that made you suddenly realize "oh right, these guys are actually bad?"

You just lost a customer. Good job.

I take it you've never stepped into TFR or GiP? Hell, take a loot at GBS before the mods moved all the political stuff to CSPAM.

I'm with Dave on that /tg/ was at least nominally respectable before /pol/ started leaking en masse to the rest of 4chan. It was a tabletop forum that, like here, wasn't so uptight regarding criticisms compared to RPG.net and was also reasonably active and supportive with regards to creative content. That said, at a certain point, the barriers of shittiness stopped working so well (or the shittier users just got more emboldened) and it was time to leave.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Archonex posted:

Actually, let me amend my previous post.

There is one thing that I feel is without a doubt good about Beast. And it has pretty much nothing to do with Beast's themselves, save for wanting them all dead for being abusive motherfuckers. It's Yuri's Group.

The idea that instead of going all Rambo on the monsters and ignoring their victims a bunch of people would sit down, analyze the situation rationally, therapeutically seek to provide support for those hurt by them, and then on top of that develop coping strategies that work for the monsters to help minimize the damage they do is pure loving genius as both a narrative and thematic thing.

It even doubles as undermining the pretensions of some of the nastiest parts of Vampire's political groups/support groups. Since the whole "A beast I am, lest a beast I become" thing loses a bit of it's punch if there's a bunch of doctors and patients that can sit down with you every week or so in an actually healthy support group and talk you down from doing altogether stupid or evil things.

I mean, when you think about it not everyone's gonna be out for revenge or to kill all the monsters all WH40K Inquisitor style. Nor are they going to try to scientifically explain the problem and gently caress that up as groups like the Talbot Group or others do. Having one undeniably good group of people that seem to really know their stuff (to the point where they can literally help vampires to not frenzy or degenerate) and apply it reasonably without making a bunch of idiotic/mistaken assumptions was a breath of fresh air and something I didn't know would be useful for a game until I read the details behind it.

It's a really weird and good niche that seems obvious in hindsight, but wouldn't immediately come up as something to use in play. It's such a stark contrast to the darkness in WoD because it's so positive.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Thinking about the secret courts that VASCU had for monsters, just as they'd have investigators and experts on the supernatural to determine what monster did what and get the evidence to prove it, I imagine there's also specialized defense experts and attorneys doing the same thing.

Imagine trying to prove that a witness saw a Beast kith rather than a werewolf or a Demon undermining their own defense as it would blow their cover

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Dr. VooDoo posted:

I really want a Kaiju tabletop RPG now. Thanks :mad:

Just reskin World Wide Wrestling.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Mors Rattus posted:

Booking says Godzilla has to wreck Tokyo this week

King Kong is demanding a match though and they both can't headline, unless...

Tokusatsu has, in a bit of a convergent/divergent/parallel evolution, a lot of the same tropes of Wrestling.

Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 21:12 on Jun 3, 2019

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Speaking of Scion, revisiting the Hero book now that it's out and final and: Spending Legend still sucks, and is lovely, because regaining Legend sucks, and is lovely. At least fresh out of chargen at Legend 1 where you just, lose the ability to do god crap that involves Imbuing Legend if you ever pull the trigger on the more interesting stuff, until you derail the story to stock up. Like, the spend/regain Legend system seems like a bolted-on or aborted previous version of WoD-lite where you need to do the god-narrative equivalent of vampiric feeding for this one uncommon instance of a thing, in a game where otherwise you're pretty loosy-goosy with always-actives and per-scene commitments. And half the stuff you can spend it on isn't necessarily that much more narratively impactful than the regular Imbues!

It doesn't help that, of the Purviews in the book, you could replace virtually every Spend 1 Legend with "Imbue 1 Legend for the scene" for both the innate powers and their boons, and you would lose nothing of value.

Like, cool game, but replacing Spend with Imbue-for-Scene is the only way I think I could sell a group on it.

It's this that caused me my doubts about playing Scion despite getting the books in the mail.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
Why limit it to Werewolf when it could be all the WoD Splats? (except Beast)

Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jun 7, 2019

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012
I think people are also forgetting stuff like BB Guns, Pellet guns or Airsoft guns which, while not explicitly firearms, would use those rules and are much more accessible to the random teen (depending on state and retailer).

01011001 posted:

I don't know much about New England and how that area is school-wise but as someone with experience with private schools in the DC area: driving is an absolute yes (learner's permit at 15-16, as mentioned, but also keep in mind some kids get held back very early on so they can dominate in sports in high school. I knew someone who was 16 as a freshman). Firearms are less of a thing as far as constant use or whatever but it's not a wildly uncommon hobby to go to gun ranges so just having the skill at 1 dot or whatever isn't too out there.

Aside from just making them not available, you might make the only guns available ones that will be quickly missed - like maybe your school has one live-in security officer who's armed or the headmaster has one in his office.

The live-in officer would likely have a hand gun. The headmaster might have a personal side arm or an antique. The on-site groundskeeper would likely have a pellet gun or possibly even a hunting rifle or shot gun with bird shot.

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Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012

Tollymain posted:

a meadow of human flesh

Rolling fields of sinew, glistening with bloody dewdrops; blooming irises, spreading lips and flaring nostrils are strewn about in all manner of shapes and shades, all greeting the new day, what hairs they have waft in the breeze; trees dot the landscape, their trunks taut and robust as digital roots dig and grasp through the rich, loamy flesh and a multitude of limbs reach out towards the sky, at their ends a bounty of ripe and succulent offal.

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