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There’s simply no possible way that Princess is any good, and anyway we already have a game about using your unlocked magical powers to rescue humanity from its dreary and miserable existence.
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Sep 7, 2019 19:42
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Mulva posted:Yeah but people want a game that's actually good at dealing with that theme. No, people want, themselves, to be good at dealing with that theme, but unfortunately there is no royal road to science.
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Sep 7, 2019 20:07
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Mulva posted:e: Fundamentally your skill set is too high and your opposition actually doesn't care about literally every bad thing out, so you eventually have to deal with the question of "Why are there still Vampires in a world where Mages exist?", and replace Vampires with literally anything the Exarchs aren't personally invested in perpetuating. And the only reasonable answer is they don't give a poo poo about dealing with those things. Maybe some particular Mage does, but then that's not a widespread push to rescue humanity. Which of course is not what Mage society is about, and it never has been. Which is why it's not the greatest game to do Hunter or Princess or any other "You are stuck in in the CoD with everything else: Now deal with it" centered game. First, this is wrong because mages aren't actually meant to be overwhelmingly stronger than vampires or chthonians or whatever. The scattershot and by now largely nonexistent balance of the various lines means that some of them are in a random and haphazard way, but it's not actually a setting truth that all mages could neatly eliminate all vampires if someone who somehow had the authority to do so decreed a global war tomorrow. Second, this is wrong because the existence of vampires specifically and misery and darkness generally actually does perfectly comport with the agenda of the exarchs, and so a dyed-in-the-wool pentacle campaign (especially with sufficiently high scope or story stakes) is exactly a push to rescue humanity.
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Sep 7, 2019 20:42
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ogresque posted:how much trouble could a wizard get in for deliberately inventing a new kind of vampire and accidentally having it escape into the wild They would get their own sub-template and chapter of a game supplement as did the Tremere.
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Sep 7, 2019 20:53
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A while ago I wrote a custom vampire-inspired legacy for one of my Mage players. I'm pretty proud of it, though I'm not sure to what extent it's compatible with 2E rules: THE LEECH “Look, it’s – I don’t have time to explain. Just give me your hand.” Having clawed its way up a ladder of stolen lifeblood, the soul of a Leech refuses to allow its body to die, holding the Pattern of the mage that hosts it in a state of full, vital animation. It’s a precarious existence, though, one which can only be sustained through predation. The first Leech was an accident. Elias Drescher, a Mystagogue who had let slip more than a few secrets that he shouldn’t have, feared that the Guardians of the Veil might strike at him at any moment. He draped himself in protective spells, using the Death and Life Arcana to suppress his biological functions entirely and animate his body with magic alone. Safeguarded against blood loss or poison and free of the need to breathe or rest, Elias Drescher imagined himself safe against a hypothetical assassination attempt, but only grew more unhinged as his days of sleepless undeath wore on. He obsessively recast and reinforced the spells that held his body in suspended animation, turning the evocation of a complex Imago into a repeating nervous tic. Things came to a head when, while negotiating for asylum with the vampires to whom he’d first furnished occult secrets, Drescher unthinkingly refreshed his animating magic and triggered a catastrophic paradox in the process. The spells he’d been relying on twisted out of his control, releasing their hold on his body and reaching hungrily outwards. The vampires in attendance were unaffected, but had no intention of sitting back and watching while the mage’s mistake blighted their lair and enervated their servants. When killing Drescher didn’t work, they tried turning him. Buffered with stolen life force of a much more refined sort, Drescher’s body and soul stabilized enough to allow the paradox anchored in them to dissipate. When Elias Drescher next awoke, he was to all appearances alive and healthy, but both he and his saviors could feel the change that had taken place. Unfortunately for Drescher, the city’s vampires weren’t interested in competition. The transformed Drescher had little luck reintegrating into Awakened society. Rather than relinquish his collected relics and submit to analysis, he fled the Mysterium. Friends, cabal mates, and rebels against the established order sought the necromancer out beyond city reaches, looking to lend support or simply learn precisely what had happened. It wasn’t long before the assembled mages determined what was going on, or before some of those present decided that Drescher’s affliction had its benefits. The Leech condition has proven to spread as a Legacy does. More a deformity of the soul than a refinement, it can take root in any mage exposed to the Legacy’s powers, though it can’t seem to overwrite an actual Legacy and it rarely manifests without deliberate cultivation. The condition is a liability to many mages, but to others it offers plentiful Mana, robust health, and, most importantly, a stab at immortality. Parent Path: None – any mage without a Legacy can become a Leech. Moros and Thyrsus, however, are most likely to be able to take advantage of the Legacy’s powers. Nickname: The Legacy is young enough that “Leeches” is both its formal and informal name, although some have bandied about “Ghouls” and “Vampires” as alternative, if potentially confusing, nicknames. Appearance: Leeches normally avoid announcing their condition and so do their best to look like normal mages, whatever that may mean. Paleness and emaciation are common features of Leeches that fail to see to their appetites, and increasingly powerful Leeches become increasingly corpselike. Background: Most first- and second-generation Leeches were drawn from the fringes of Awakened society, but variety in the Legacy’s membership has increased with time. Any mage fed upon by a Leech can contract the condition, and so a member of the Legacy might hail from any walk of life. Organization: Leeches are a recent occurrence and as yet are very rare; most are only two or three “generations” from the Legacy’s founder, and a good fraction of those were infected by accident rather than inducted by choice. Many are drifters and apostates who hide their condition by avoiding contact with other mages. Such Leeches have no real support networks beyond their kin, and often find themselves competing for prey not only with each other but with vampires and other supernatural predators. Other Leeches have carved out niches for themselves within Awakened society, usually thanks to supportive cabals and trusting superiors. Powerful and established mages are usually too canny to allow the onset of the Legacy to catch them by surprise, but might embrace it by choice. Such Leeches usually go to great lengths to hide their condition and work to drive away other members of the Legacy in order to avoid both suspicion and possible competition. Leeches aren’t generally known to exist by either the Pentacle or the Ministries, but concerned cabal mates or prying superiors can’t be kept guessing forever. Leeches are members of a left-handed Legacy by most lights, but theirs is a gradual, piecemeal evil in comparison to dramatic crimes like soul theft or abyssal summoning. Though Leeches engender distrust and disgust by default, it can be argued that the feeding methods the Leech legacy provides are in fact a benign and sustainable alternative to the blood sacrifice all mages have the capacity to practice. Some Consilia might therefore allow Leeches to operate in the open without formal censure—especially if respected and influential decision makers turn out themselves to be Leeches. Overall, members of the Legacy prefer to keep their true nature hidden. It’s good practice not to give others cause to wonder whether one should be allowed to live. Oblations: This Legacy wounds the soul, rendering Oblations of any kind impossible. Concepts: cannibal in denial, luminary with a dark secret, kindred rights advocate, optimistic transhumanist, patient zero, self-serving vampire hunter, wandering penitent, would-be curse breaker Joining: All it takes to become a Leech is to be fed on by another Leech. The Willpower expenditures involved in joining the Legacy might represent a deliberate gift, an accidental infection, or an unwanted imposition. Whether a mage character actually becomes a Leech is, nevertheless, always the decision of that character’s player. New Trait: Vitae A Leech gains no Mana from Oblations. However, any point of Mana a Leech gains by inflicting harm on a living person (such as by performing a sacrifice or casting “Devouring the Slain”) becomes a point of Vitae. A Leech can also obtain Vitae from vampires, but suffers the same consequences that another vampire would. Leeches store Vitae in their Mana pools, and can hold maximum Vitae up to the sum of their ratings in the Death and Life arcana. Acquired Vitae over this maximum becomes normal Mana. Leeches can spend Vitae place of Mana or metabolize it directly. Each turn, a Leech can metabolize one point of Vitae per Attainment possessed. One point of metabolized Vitae heals two bashing wounds or one lethal wound. Once every day, a Leech can metabolize five total Vitae to heal an aggravated wound. Metabolized Vitae counts against the Gnosis-based limit of points of Mana spent per turn. Each sunset, a Leech loses a point of Vitae. If they have no Vitae to lose, they instead age an extra day and suffer a Resistant lethal wound. Only one such wound can be downgraded or healed for every two days that pass, whether by natural or supernatural means. Attainments 1st: ABSORPTION Prerequisites: Death ••, Life •• Once per turn, through skin-to-skin contact with a living person, the Leech can reflexively inflict a lethal wound and gain a point of Vitae. This causes no pain or visible damage, just creeping exhaustion. Supernatural victims can detect the enervation with a Wits + Gnosis roll. Absorption can be activated as part of an appropriate combat action; the drain replaces the first two points of damage the Leech would have caused. Wounds this power causes each take two days to heal naturally, regardless of normal healing times. Supernatural healing is effective, but always costs a minimum of one Mana or equivalent resource per wound. Leeches and vampires take no damage from Absorption, but lose a point of Vitae and notice immediately. Such creatures can instinctively recognize a mage with this Attainment as a competing predator. Drawback: Whenever a Leech with two Vitae or fewer touches potential prey, roll the Leech’s Resolve + Composure minus the Leech’s own Gnosis. This roll takes a –2 penalty if the Leech has no Vitae at all, and a cumulative –2 penalty if the Leech has any Resistant wounds. On a failure, the Leech involuntarily uses Absorption on whoever triggered the roll. 2nd: FIXATION Prerequisites: Death •••, Life ••• No longer is precious life force frittered away on the myriad processes required to keep a human body functioning. This Attainment permanently transforms the Leech into an undead creature. The undead Leech no longer needs to eat, breathe, or sleep, and cannot be sickened, fatigued, or poisoned. Conventional weapons inflict bashing rather than lethal damage and extremes of temperature or pressure barely register. A wounded Leech feels pain, but can’t be knocked unconscious by bashing damage or caused to bleed to death by lethal damage. Only deterioration from hunger causes the Leech to age. When the Leech metabolizes Vitae to heal, it can cure even Resistant wounds. The Leech can see to its needs even when insensate. For each full day of unconsciousness, it can metabolize one point of Vitae and can also activate Absorption once. Drawback: The Leech no longer heals naturally. Close examination identifies the Leech as dead unless some disguise, magical or otherwise, is in place. Absorption’s drawback now triggers when the Leech has four points of Vitae or fewer. 3rd: DISCARNATION Prerequisites: Death ••••, Life •••• The Leech’s soul escapes into the world, leaving a desiccated corpse behind. A diffuse mass of stolen breath, the creature exists naturally in Twilight but manifests in the physical world as a cold fog. To those who can scrutinize souls, it’s a roiling mass of bizarre feeding appendages that stretch hungrily towards life and warmth. The Leech can hear normally and see through total darkness, but lacks other human senses. It is tangible to vampires and other Leeches and can be burned by fire, but is otherwise incorporeal. It can drift at its Speed in any direction and flow past any Twilight obstacle that isn’t airtight. It can no longer meaningfully age. Magic becomes the Leech’s primary means of predation. Whenever its spells or spell-driven minions wound suitable prey, the Leech can replace the first point of damage dealt with the effects of Absorption, potentially draining multiple victims simultaneously. Drawback: Still undead, the Leech retains Fixation’s drawbacks. In its natural state, it can’t exert physical force or even speak, whether in Twilight or the physical world. If it obtains a body, such as by casting spells to animate and possess a corpse, it can use its Physical Attributes normally. A bodiless Leech needs an hour of contact to use Absorption directly rather than through a damaging spell. When the Leech has four Vitae or fewer, Absorption’s drawback triggers the first time in any scene that the Leech perceives potential prey. Upon succumbing, the Leech loses control of its own magic, using its Instant Action each round to lash out at prey with hostile spells. This frenzy continues until the Leech has obtained as much Vitae as it can hold.
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Sep 7, 2019 22:43
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MonsieurChoc posted:I loving Love the Mekhet, and it'S 100% because of their clanbook. I love them for their original clan logo which featured a sun, moon, spider's web, and hourglass all together.
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Sep 9, 2019 19:43
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Attention paid to feeding being a dial you can crank between "just pass this roll okay done" to "good luck formulating and executing on a winning strategy in this elaborate multi-character scene I've set up for you (OPTIONAL: and by the by I've riddled it with landmines that will get your character executed if you step on them)" surely dates back to VtM Revised at the very least. I don't get why people think doing one or the other represents some kind of modern game design innovation.
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Sep 9, 2019 21:54
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Naoto Shirogane posted:I don’t know who you’ve been playing with, but a character who can’t consistently feed or lacks the foresight to plan creatively in their attempts , AND is incapable of handling the consequences of botching a feed sounds like a player issue and maybe they should play a tabletop that doesn’t require you to completely cut out a core mechanic to what makes the game work. I'd reverse this - if someone has made a vampire character, and that vampire character has survived as a vampire for more than a week, then it can't not be true that they don't have some kind of consistent feeding method that works nearly all of the time and allows them to coexist with their fellow vampires under normal conditions. They wouldn't be alive otherwise. So if someone sits down at your table with a vampire character, and you immediately challenge them to correctly and successfully play out some kind of feeding scenario, ready to leap in and punish them with Real Narrative Consequences for every mistake they make in their description, you aren't Storytelling in good faith. It's like playing D&D and challenging the fighter to describe how they strap themselves into their plate armor or the wizard to actually correctly pronounce their next spell's magic words - this is poo poo their character knows, even if they don't! Chill out! V5 makes this a little more explicit with its "predator types". For instance, there's one whose name I forget that basically entails being a mugger - a vampire that just fuckin' grabs people in alleyways and leaves them with a headache and maybe without a wallet. My character in a long-running VtR game from years ago operated like this, although he also did a fair amount of hunting down animals and backpackers. Now, an unkind ST could demand to play this out every time and have it always turns out that your mark is carrying a shotgun with dragonsbreath rounds or is a master mage or something, or at the very least get really weinery about you forgetting to check for streetlights or nearby police officers or whatever. But that's a lovely thing to do! In the World of Darkness, that actually is how some vampires feed on a consistent basis and if you've let a character make a character who operates in that mode you shouldn't be immediately setting up tripwires and pit traps in their path because deep down you don't believe that feeding method is legitimate, or you don't believe that they the player have thought it through with sufficient depth, or something. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 23:40
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There is no reason to split this into a bunch of more annoying to keep up with subthreads, please don’t do it. I hate the (old?) rpgnet “Vampire 5E (+)” thing.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:04
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V5 kills me because, like I've posted before, it has a bunch of cute mechanical ideas in it that really didn't need to be wasted on the Masquerade setting.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:04
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The presence of one annoying Brand Advocate is not a good reason to ban or airlock all discussion of a particular World of Darkness game in this, the World of Darkness thread. I’m interested to hear eventual updates on what goes on with V5, even if they’re about insane fuckups like the Chechnya thing, and would prefer to still have a one-stop-shop for that and custom werewolf lodges or whatever.
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Sep 27, 2019 01:23
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