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I think it's probably more important (or at least more interesting) to give the under-served, underplayed games more materials in exercises like this to try and entice people to try them out. And honestly, there's so much Vampire material out there you can already basically set a game when or wherever you want, so long as you're willing to do the reading on the time period and place in question.
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Apr 10, 2015 15:26
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What the gently caressBarbed Tongues posted:One of my favorite overlays for the Requiem Clans is actually the first season of the new Hannibal series. The main five characters represent those Clans without much need for interpretation at all. What the gently caress It's like I walked into Washington Post's foreign affairs coverage or something
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Apr 11, 2015 00:39
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Not quite sure why it's a drop of "menstrual blood" instead of "the blood of a virgin," anyhow.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:25
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I feel like trying to suss mechanical signifiers out of a piece of intro fiction instead of tonal signifiers is a fool's errand, personally.
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Apr 13, 2015 13:56
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I also feel you can't actually make any claims at all about what play styles Beast supports based on a piece of broadly-sketched intro fiction and a super-vague mission statement. Especially if for some reason you don't think Werewolf or Vampire's similarly overarching mission statements don't support "I'm a monster, yay."
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Apr 13, 2015 14:11
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This is all frankly embarrassing to read, and embarrassing by proxy to consider being written. Edit: The good news about fluff is that for the most part you can excise or rehabilitate all this dreck, but you'd hope in 2015 we wouldn't have to.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:00
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This is actually a decent litmus test for new members to your table: do they want to play a Beast? Yes? Tell them you're full up.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:15
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Beasts sound like a much better mid-tier Changeling antagonist than what we've heard of Huntsmen so far. They certainly don't sound much like PCs, outside of there for some reason being rules to play them.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:19
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Considering this is a leak of some sort, I assume they're busily pretending it doesn't exist.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:37
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That also sounds like with a couple modifications -- mainly to the jargon -- it could be how a Summer or Autumn Court changeling accrues glamour. A lot of these fringe "well they don't HAVE to be horrible monsters" concepts sound like characters from other lines with their serial numbers filed off, saddled with a bizarre antagonist progression system.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:56
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I don't think that alone explains it. Changelings are just as paranoid as Demons -- and their Mask roughly as impenetrable, unless that's been nerfed recently -- but Beasts apparently have no problem with them.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:02
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Daredevil is the perfect Adamantine Arrow lawyer concept. But if I recall correctly, the original character pitch in the last thread had the Adamantine Arrow conducting their combat exclusively in the courtroom, because that was their battlefield -- much in the same way a doctor could conduct their combat exclusively on the operating table, as that was their battlefield, etc, because the entire point was the combat could be entirely metaphorical. That's not Daredevil, but Jack McCoy. And Jack McCoy isn't an Arrow.
Crion fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 05:22
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I'm not sure how productive the distinction is, because you can play a serial killer easily and completely in-theme in every game except arguably Mage.
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Apr 14, 2015 18:43
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I'm not buying it. A primordial fear should have much more personal, primal insight into the human condition than conscious mental creations like religion and astronomy provide in and of themselves. The "being watched/exposed" angle is far, far stronger than any metaphor the sky itself can exclusively provide, and I'm not sure the sky is the best metaphor for being watched available.
Crion fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Apr 15, 2015 |
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Apr 15, 2015 20:23
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I think I figured out what's been bothering me so much about Beast, aside from this weird mechanical stuff about fearing The Sky. At its best -- its absolute best, the pinnacle of its expression -- do you know what it sounds like? A Garth Ennis comic book. It sounds like a system you'd use to exclusively tell stories about a group of assholes whose sole purpose in this world was to humiliate and then murder a bunch of self-righteous, belittling parodies of protagonists from more genuine -- certainly more compassionate -- media. And Garth Ennis comic books are something I grew out of sometime around the freshman year of college.
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Apr 16, 2015 06:06
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Mors Rattus posted:Y'know, it has occured to me - everything good about a Hero, a Changeling does better. Despite what the book says, Changelings are naturally suited to be enemies of Beasts. Beasts make for bad neighbors when it comes to glamour harvesting for anyone that doesn't like feeding on fear, and even worse, they invade dreams. That's Changeling turf. It gets even worse if the Beast tries to talk to them and mentions thinking that the Keepers sound pretty awesome. That's basically the same take I had here but reversed: Crion posted:Beasts sound like a much better mid-tier Changeling antagonist than what we've heard of Huntsmen so far. They certainly don't sound much like PCs, outside of there for some reason being rules to play them. And I don't think the two of us coming to basically the same conclusion from different directions is a coincidence.
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Apr 16, 2015 23:09
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Nick...Blood? Nick Blood. There was a dude working on the WoD MMO named Nick Blood?
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Apr 17, 2015 19:19
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I have yet to read a pitch for one of these supposed moral Beasts characters that I could credibly believe a real human being would play for more than thirty minutes. If we're at the point where we're supposed to be treating Ari the Passive-Aggressive Uber Vigilante as a serious character concept that shows how Beasts can function in the mortal world without doing undue harm to humans, just give me some fish monster who kills college students out at the lake every other weekend. At least the guy playing the fish monster is being honest about what game he's playing.
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Apr 21, 2015 00:00
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DeathSandwich posted:Is it strange with all the weird things you could potentially play inside of nWoD, I really just want to play Hunter so bad? Whenever I bring it up to the guys I play with on occasion they just shrug it off and say "Nah, I'd rather just play Vampire and have cool powers and not die if I get shot". I mean, it's cool that you like Hunter and all, and this is certainly a game you can play using the line, but what you're describing is the compact-size Union game, with actual Union elements probably toned way down. Not all of Hunter. Most of Hunter is vastly different, tonally, than the above; there's a whole lot of chaff in that product, and a whole lot of the time you are only relatively outclassed and outgunned -- especially if you're part of a conspiracy. The "line" that fully and completely supports what you're talking about here is core WoD, played with mortal PCs. Crion fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 19:39
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Luminous Obscurity posted:Yes but in defense of Conspiracy games: "Mostly normal people in a desperately hosed up situation they have to band together to fight" says to me street-level people with day jobs who aren't looking for a fight, but who found one and now have to deal with it. That is the Union or it's a Mortals game. Hunters, by and large, are not "mostly normal" people, and I don't mean that in the sense that they lack superpowers. They are generally speaking NOT groups of friends/families/co-workers (excepting the Union) unless those friendships, families, or jobs are themselves outside the bounds of "mostly normal." And I don't care what size it is, no member of an Ashwood Abbey or Bear Large compact is a "mostly normal" person. Crion fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 20:19
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Effectronica posted:The Conspiracies, minus the one from the Werewoof book and the Ascending Ones, are all great and thematic. There's something of a disconnect with the Compacts, more. Yeah, I'm not saying Hunter isn't a coherent or consistent game in dealing with its actual themes. But playing the scared, banded-together cast of a horror movie that knows where the shotgun's kept in the house and is gonna kill that fucker for what it did to Terry is, at best, a very small, niche part of what Hunter is about, and at worst, is just a straight-up Mortals game. Hunter is a game that's more about arrogance than fear.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:22
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Ambi posted:I thought this was the whole purview of the Cell level of play, roughly similar to Street level games of Unknown Armies? Cells don't get endowments afaik, are generally sprung up around a specific cause or small group of people, and then go on from there. Not everything necessarily needs to play at the Compact or Conspiracy level in order for it to be a Real Hunter Gametm. As far as I'm aware, cell-level play is basically WoD Mortals with access to the Profession Merit (and probably one or two other merits that escape me at the moment). Maybe you start with more XP to spend? I forget. The Profession Merit is pretty strong, but it's still just a merit. And my point isn't that he's gaming wrong or anything; indeed, he ISN'T gaming, that's why he made the post, and what I'm saying is maybe the reason none of his friends want to play Hunter is because they have this misapprehension that Hunter is entirely about cell-level or Union compact play, when that's really not the full game at all. Hunter both provides cool powers and the ability to not die when you get shot (with caveats to both). But not if you're playing it street-level without endowments, which was his pitch. It doesn't sound like a system fit problem but an expectations problem.
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Apr 21, 2015 20:57
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Mors Rattus posted:You get access to the WP-risking mechanic that no one ever remembers. I can't wait for the inevitable Hunter 2e, by the way, so we can get cleaned up compacts/conspiracies (some of 'em really need it) and a reworked take on the Code to handle Integrity. The amount of off-brand repeat-of-corebook-concept conspiracies/compacts hanging around (Ashwood Abbey's Bear Lodge/Hunt Club is easily most the most blatant, but the X-Files Family could do with cleaning up too) is actually kind of startling when you look at it Crion fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 21:05
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:There should be a game of TFV characters who are the judge, clerk, prosecutor, and the single court-appointed defense attorney of the ultra-secret United States Court of Appeals for the Fourteenth Circuit. It was really inconsiderate of them to not just stop at the Twelfth Circuit, when you think about it
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Apr 21, 2015 21:10
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There is no splat that cannot be used to play serial killers, but some are more serial killer-y than others. Hunter was probably the most until we got Beast, though Werewolf was conceivably up there too.Daeren posted:While this is true in large strokes I will shank you if you try to get rid of the Barrett Commission or VASCU because both of them own bones. Yeah, they're not bad, they're just kinda redundant. It's not impossible to imagine a world where TF:V, Barrett Commission, VASCU and Division Six all exist, but it is tough to imagine them all being distinct, independent of, and presumably secret from each other. Retreading ground like that crowds out the potential for good new ideas. But then, when given that opportunity we got the Buffy compact and the Bioshock conspiracy, so. Crion fucked around with this message at 22:59 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 22:55
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My assumption is there are fewer mortal serial killers than there might otherwise be simply by dint of some of them becoming supernatural serial killers and others getting taken out by Hunters who either misapprehended them as their targets or viewed them as competition. Supernaturals sort of turn serial killing from a cottage industry into a fully-developed sector of the WoD human economy. Like if you actually are running a WoD where all splats are simultaneously present and simultaneously true where they don't conflict, you're running a game in a world that only looks like ours because looking like our world is one of the pre-conditions for its existence. Crion fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Apr 21, 2015 |
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Apr 21, 2015 23:16
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GimpInBlack posted:You seem to have a great deal more faith in the efficiency of the US government/military than I do. Certainly. But I can already get to Division Six or the Bear Lodge quite easily on my own if I've got the corebook -- "a TF:V subdivision for mages;" "a non-hideous Abbey chapter that goes after werewolves" -- and I'd rather see more stuff like the cult awareness group that has no martial presence to speak of and exists primarily to rehab rescued blood-dolls/ghouls. But then, even those guys are kind of a vampire-themed Talbot Group.
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Apr 21, 2015 23:23
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paradoxGentleman posted:Oh come on now, Changeling Beasts have had elements of sexuality since 1E, and it's not like it doesn't make sense given their archetype. I don't actually recall that being a focus off the top of my head, but even if it were, it doesn't excuse a line as laughable as that one. Edit: While I understand that there is a theoretical market of people out there who do love to play sex games with their WW/OPP products, and that because I will never game with or even really understand these people I should easily just ignore these portions of the text, it would make it all a lot easier if they weren't also embarrassingly-written. Crion fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 18:01
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paradoxGentleman posted:It was not the only thing going on with Beasts, but it wqs certainly there. I passed on Blood and Smoke for a number of reasons, mainly because if I'm not planning on running a Vampire game I've got no good excuse for subjecting myself to Vampire fluff writing. That would seem to confirm this. And I just reread the Beast section in core Changeling 1E, which confirmed that the vast majority of the time they substitute "passion" and the like for actual talk about sex, and don't feel the need to talk about how and how often Beasts, in general, get horny. It's kind of weird in general that the Beast 2E intro text is telling me my placid, contemplative elephant-themed Broadback Beast from Changeling 1E is now a dude whose interest in getting in bar fights is only rivaled by his interest in fuckin'. Perhaps there will be rules in the finished version for playing Beasts other than tough loner sexwolves. Also, seriously. quote:They’ve got wild eyes and untamed hearts. They’re reckless, passionate, and dangerous. They’re a wet dream made flesh when they’re turned on, which is common, they’re walking nightmares when they’re angry, which is also common. The Beast has reached inside, found her animal self, and embraced her id. The animal inside of her kept her alive at the worst times. Humanity has failed her, failed her when she was the most in need, and so she rejected it. Did the core themes of Changeling: the Lost get completely flipped between editions? This reads like a copy/paste from Werewolf or Beast, the game line. Crion fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 19:23
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Soonmot posted:Ferrinus, I'm generally curious. Is there anything you actually like in nWoD? Please stop trying to bait people into talking about Mage, guy who constantly complains about Mage talk
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Apr 23, 2015 19:31
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paradoxGentleman posted:Basically what LO said: your mild-mannered Broadbacked elephant isn't a Beast in 2e, but depending on how he achieved freedom he could be a Wizened or an Elemental. They're going to have to do some serious work with Kiths to make this non-laughable.
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Apr 23, 2015 19:42
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Interested to see if the trend continues and Mage 2E Thyrsus are explicitly all about being primal, passionate shapeshifters that fight hard and gently caress harder
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Apr 23, 2015 20:08
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So somewhat similar in superficial theme, but crucially as if written by a storyteller with an eye for a larger game instead of a fetish writer. I've got no real problem with that.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:18
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unseenlibrarian posted:I will say the one thing I like about this is the "Changelings can always escape Mundane confinement because they've already been jailed by the best" thing. That kind of smacks of taking a metaphor and stretching it a bit too far. It would make quite a bit more sense if it was the purview of a specific kind of Changeling (in 1E, Wizened) whose Durances might have been expected to very closely resemble real-world prisons or the like.
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Apr 23, 2015 20:32
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paradoxGentleman posted:I have 0 problems with my game about a darker, more twisted version of the real world having a bunch of hedonistic, sexual factions in it. The mention of sex doesn't automatically turn the whole setting into an excuse to masturbate: it's an element, a thing that happens that can potentially attract the attention of people who would not contribute to a fun roleplaying experience, but that it would be stupid and wasteful to ignore because we have to make sure they don't catch wind of it. Sex comes up in Changeling 1E. Not that often, but it comes up. Sex comes up in that Thyrsus preview, too. No one laughing at that line from the Beasts preview is saying "don't mention sex in these games." They're saying "do it well." That's a bad line, and on the whole, it's a bad, leering write-up. Crion fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Apr 23, 2015 |
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Apr 23, 2015 21:19
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A version of Changeling where you're powerful enough to gently caress up your Keeper out of the book and therefore they have to resort to trickery, guile, and intermediaries in order to pursue you sure would fit with the bizarre Badass Teen stylings of some of these second editions, but isn't a game I'm particularly interested in playing.
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Apr 29, 2015 04:40
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nWoD mechanics are so explosive that no one roll result is either surprising or illustrative of actual power. I should know; last week I got seven successes on one 8-again die. It was the die I rolled to represent the +1 edge of my Claws of the Wild. Base pool combined with the actual tricks you're bringing to bear -- in other words, expected successes -- are much more indicative of power level.
Crion fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 04:45
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My assumption is this Ogre build involves using the really poorly-written Stone 1 power over and over again to snowball extra Strength dice into successive reflexive activations of the contract (as it is, after all, a Strength roll) until you've hit your glamour/turn cap, at which point you throw your effective Strength of 15 or whatever into a likely 8-again attack pool? Man, so many of that game's contracts were useless unless they were unintentionally broken.
Crion fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 05:03
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Chimeras can spend 1 glamour to gain the rote quality on all their resistance rolls against splat powers for the remainder of the scene. This is powerful, and good. It is not, however, the ability to declare magic does not work for the duration of a scene. Especially if the pool in question is like, four or five dice. And having a strictly worse version of a core Vampire feature is, also, pretty nifty, but not something wholly badass or special by itself. In fact, most of this looks pretty sane for someone not interested in playing superhero Changeling.
Crion fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Apr 29, 2015 |
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Apr 29, 2015 05:23
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The tone these seeming write-ups are written in is intensely aggravating.
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May 1, 2015 13:32
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