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How did games get Autism so wrong?
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Apr 10, 2015 12:24
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Apr 10, 2015 14:36
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Why do people with autism think they are special and require special treatment like real mentally ill people rather than just accepting that they will be beaten by their peers until they stop acting like dorks?
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Apr 10, 2015 15:22
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gas thread, gas forum, gas jews (has anyone made a game about this) (is this what valkyria chronicles is about???)
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Apr 10, 2015 15:33
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Why do people with autism think they are special and require special treatment like real mentally ill people rather than just accepting that they will be beaten by their peers until they stop acting like dorks? Why do people pretend they're all idiot savants and not awkward hand flapping retards.
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Apr 10, 2015 15:51
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Zombies' Downfall posted:gas thread, gas forum, gas jews (has anyone made a game about this) (is this what valkyria chronicles is about???) KZ manager is what u want 
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Apr 10, 2015 17:04
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I keep seeing people bring up that no videogame ever could have writing as good as any book. I always know when someone says this they haven't really been reading books. It's great there are enough books printed you never have to read a bad one, it really is, but the ratio of good books to bad ones is probably not that different from good game writing to bad game writing, but even a badly written game can still trick me into having fun with a skinner box.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:01
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Yeah, in the battle of, say, John Saul or Dan Brown vs. video games, I have to say video games have a significant edge. It's a bizarre refusal to admit value.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:03
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Utgardaloki posted:but even a badly written game can still trick me into having fun with a skinner box. That's kind of the point, though. You can still enjoy a game with bad writing if you like the gameplay. That doesn't change the quality of the writing, it just makes bad writing less of a barrier to enjoying a game. I can't really agree with the ratio argument either. There are definitely more well-written games now than there were 10 or 15 years ago, but there are also a LOT more games overall, too. Poke around the underbelly of Steam or something like Desura and you'll find a few gems in a sea of one-man passion projects and programmer writing. The more open modern markets have also made international publishing much more of a thing, leading to a lot of absolutely atrocious translation jobs.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:17
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Zombie Samurai posted:That's kind of the point, though. You can still enjoy a game with bad writing if you like the gameplay. That doesn't change the quality of the writing, it just makes bad writing less of a barrier to enjoying a game. which is different from the writing in amateur/fan authors/filmakers works because...?
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Apr 10, 2015 18:28
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SSNeoman posted:which is different from the writing in amateur/fan authors/filmakers works because...? Not sure which part you're questioning. If it's the first part, bad writing hurts novels and films more than games because it's more the core of the experience. The core of most games is interactivity and mechanics, and the writing supports that. It's much easier to enjoy a game with bad writing than a book or movie with bad writing. With a book, the writing is literally all you have. With a movie, you're left with just the acting or cinematography propping up a bad core, if that. If it's the second part, I'm saying the markets are very similar in terms of proportional quality, so we agree.
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Apr 10, 2015 18:53
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Endorph posted:the original megami tensei books are good if you like seven separate instances of loki raping women light novels are the only books worth reading
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Apr 10, 2015 19:11
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Apr 10, 2015 19:45
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Zombie Samurai posted:If it's the first part, bad writing hurts novels and films more than games because it's more the core of the experience. The core of most games is interactivity and mechanics, and the writing supports that. It's much easier to enjoy a game with bad writing than a book or movie with bad writing. With a book, the writing is literally all you have. With a movie, you're left with just the acting or cinematography propping up a bad core, if that. It's another reason why film is still the closest parallel to games, I suppose. Films can fall back on a lot of things if the script isn't up to snuff, such as a charismatic or comedic lead, action sequences, or pure eye candy (i.e. What Dreams May Come, which has a schmaltzy bullshit script but is basically a 90-minute moving Monet painting), but it's generally considered a flaw if they have to do so. Games come at it from exactly the opposite approach, where if at least elements of the gameplay are good enough, you can overlook or ignore the writing. It's much less foundational, which is both a strength and a weakness.
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Apr 10, 2015 19:58
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One thing that always interests me about story-heavy games is how they establish and maintain a bond between the player and the character he's playing. Many games don't bother with this at all, instead introducing the player character as an established badass and immediately putting the player in control of said badass, such as in the Batman: Arkham series of games. Other games make a concerted effort -- sometimes blaringly obvious, sometimes more subtle -- to insert the player himself into the game, and have the story be the player's story, rather than Batman's. Any RPG where you customize and name your character at the very start is an example of the obvious route. Fallout 3 not only does this but takes it several steps further: The game starts literally with the player character's birth, and follows him through key events in his childhood, making the player shape his character through his early life choices. By the time the player character is released into the world as a capable and independent young adult, the player is totally immersed in his character and the game world, to the point that he isn't playing the game, but the game is playing him. Few games push for total immersion, but most try to some extent to pull the player into the character. Many game writers have happened upon a very simple but effective device for accomplishing this: the infamous silent protagonist. By not giving the player character any distinguishable emotions or personality, the writer coaxes the player to instinctively insert his own self into the character's shoes so as to fill the void. Innumerable Japanese and western games have made excellent use of the silent protagonist trick without compromising the narrative quality. Another subtle gimmick to drag the player in is to fill the player character with simple traits that the player can quickly relate to. Making the player character a lonely man in his 20s or early 30s with a lovely job and family issues is hilariously common in survival horror, likely because it's so effective at penetrating the survival-horror-game-playing demographic and because survival horror lives and dies on its ability to tug the player into its world. Another easy trick to make a character relatable is just to pile on as many negative traits as possible, carefully avoiding any that could be considered positive. Novelists employ this regularly with their narrator-protagonists, which works because positive traits can easily alienate a reader who doesn't have them, while negative traits usually don't. As a recent example, consider The Hunger Games, which locked onto its target audience by making the narrator a diminutive, weak, squeamish, socially awkward 17-year-old with severe daddy issues, an abandonment complex, constant nightmares, no emotional control, almost no friends, and a single passive talent that she herself refuses to acknowledge. One particular case study of this is Phoenix Wright, Ace Attorney. In the first game that Phoenix appears in, he's a guy in his early twenties with no money, no family, no friends, no knowledge of law, an admitted inability to study law, and absolutely no idea what he's doing. How he managed to pass the bar exam is never explained, and frankly, it's a miracle he manages to get dressed in the morning. He easily becomes a player surrogate because there's absolutely nothing good or noteworthy about him. This is a common trick, as discussed, but what interests me about Phoenix Wright in particular is how he develops over the course of the game series. While the first game makes Phoenix 100% a player surrogate, the sequel Ace Attorney: Justice for All begins to slowly develop him: Phoenix has a very deep grudge against one of the most popular characters from the previous game, and conceals his reasons for it even from the player. As the series goes on and the cases and Phoenix's methods of winning them become increasingly outrageous and bizarre, a rift grows between Phoenix and the player, until Trials and Tribulations, in which fully half of the game puts the player in characters other than Phoenix Wright. Finally with Apollo Justice, Phoenix is a disgraced, disbarred goofball and the player character is somebody else entirely, with similar blank-slate characteristics to what Phoenix used to have. What it boils down to is that Phoenix started out as a player surrogate, was Flandersized until he became something that the player couldn't possibly relate to, then discarded. They brought him back as a playable for Dual Destinies, but I can't tell that they were trying to make the characters in that game relatable at all.
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Apr 10, 2015 20:13
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:As a recent example, consider The Hunger Games, which locked onto its target audience by making the narrator a diminutive, weak, squeamish, socially awkward 17-year-old with severe daddy issues, an abandonment complex, constant nightmares, no emotional control, almost no friends, and a single passive talent that she herself refuses to acknowledge. I'm just going off the movie here, but isn't Katniss a talented hunter with relatively high self-esteem? Seems like you maybe just described Bella Swan or something.
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Apr 10, 2015 20:23
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bumnp
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Apr 10, 2015 20:23
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Wanderer posted:I'm just going off the movie here, but isn't Katniss a talented hunter with relatively high self-esteem? Seems like you maybe just described Bella Swan or something. I've never read the books, but the movies certainly portrayed her as you've described.
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Apr 10, 2015 20:27
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Wanderer posted:I'm just going off the movie here, but isn't Katniss a talented hunter with relatively high self-esteem? Seems like you maybe just described Bella Swan or something. The books more or less portray her as an angry messed up sack of poo poo with inexplicably good aim. Highlights include her trying to hunt down Peeta with a syringe full of air when the rebels first rescue her and she thinks it's a Capitol trick, her almost clawing Haymitch's eyes out when she finds out Peeta was left behind, and her going into what's literally described as hysteria at not having Peeta to the point that they sedate and restrain her while they do the rescue mission so she won't gently caress it up.
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Apr 10, 2015 20:38
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writing in video game threads: THERES TOO MUCH OF IT geez! its boring in here!
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Apr 10, 2015 20:44
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bloodborne is about menstruation
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Apr 10, 2015 20:46
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escapist media aimed at losers tends to feature losers as main characters, wow, this is some revalation
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Apr 10, 2015 21:10
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It's not escapist literature, it's mostly just storytelling. A climb up from the bottom is inherently more interesting than one from any other point on the ladder. Of course, some stories just move the ladder, like Tales from the Borderlands.
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Apr 10, 2015 21:51
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Tits for the Tit God, Pussy for the Pussy Throne.
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Apr 10, 2015 21:53
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video games are art (ff7)
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Apr 10, 2015 21:57
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Skilleddk posted:video games are art you don't need to source that we all know what you were referring to
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Apr 10, 2015 22:12
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Pathologic is cool and I wish there were more games like it
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Apr 10, 2015 22:16
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Pathologic sort of gets overly self-indulgent towards the end, but drat if it doesn't have great writing and atmosphere in general. I'm glad its getting a remake.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Apr 10, 2015 |
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Apr 10, 2015 22:40
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Pittsburgh Lambic posted:Few games push for total immersion, but most try to some extent to pull the player into the character. Many game writers have happened upon a very simple but effective device for accomplishing this: the infamous silent protagonist. By not giving the player character any distinguishable emotions or personality, the writer coaxes the player to instinctively insert his own self into the character's shoes so as to fill the void. Innumerable Japanese and western games have made excellent use of the silent protagonist trick without compromising the narrative quality. Silent protagonists are terrible. They're supposed to let you project any personality onto them, but not speaking is just as much a choice as any particular line of dialogue, so a silent protagonist always comes across either as an idiot or an arsehole. Why aren't you saying anything? People are talking to you, dickhead. Unless it's a game where there just isn't any dialogue at all, I guess.
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Apr 11, 2015 00:31
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I'm pretty ok with Jacket from Hotline Miami being a silent protagonist
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Apr 11, 2015 00:58
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Tiggum posted:Silent protagonists are terrible. They're supposed to let you project any personality onto them, but not speaking is just as much a choice as any particular line of dialogue, so a silent protagonist always comes across either as an idiot or an arsehole. Why aren't you saying anything? People are talking to you, dickhead.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:01
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Skilleddk posted:video game are art fify
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Apr 11, 2015 02:42
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videogames are not art but some games have very good fanart of elf twinks
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Apr 11, 2015 02:47
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video games suck haha
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Apr 11, 2015 03:11
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This guy sperged a little too much, he made a good first point and it started going downhill from there. Highlights include: Getting upset that his childhood meltdowns made people get annoyed at him. Not knowing if he is likable, therefore hating a character that exhibits autistic traits and is a huge bitch. Getting upset that a character, having a fight accused her friend of 'faking autism'. Actually I can't get over his meltdown situation. Of course people are going to get frustrated with them, do you think because you have 'I am an autistic person' you get a free pass on having a tantrum?
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Apr 11, 2015 03:12
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Lord Windy posted:This guy sperged a little too much, he made a good first point and it started going downhill from there. This... seems to be a trend.
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Apr 11, 2015 03:16
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Link is the only good silent protagonist.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:08
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Zombie Samurai posted:Link is the only good silent protagonist. The dudes from genesis-era Altered Beast.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:14
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Lord Windy posted:This guy sperged a little too much
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Apr 11, 2015 05:19
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please tell me how videogames approach my favourite subject, holes
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Apr 11, 2015 11:23
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