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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

Kaelan Zero posted:

It's nice to still see an anime or two almost every season that respects the viewer's intelligence & isn't overloaded with fanservice. I'm sure the bluray sales are terrible, though.

please stop being a pretentious anime fan

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Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

'i like it, so clearly it's too deep for those plebeian japs'

Triggerhappypilot
Nov 8, 2009

SVMS-01 UNION FLAG GREATEST MOBILE SUIT

ENACT = CHEAP EUROTRASH COPY






You know, I'm starting to think the batman meme works a little too well.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Starts well, falls apart at the end.

Davincie
Jul 7, 2008

who's looking forward to the american remake

Budget Prefuse
Sep 26, 2011

Sakurazuka posted:

HikkiXSaika is my OTP and I seriously wish the show would go in that direction instead of just playing it for laughs.

Mad Lupine
Feb 18, 2011

all the things you said
running through my head

Triggerhappypilot posted:

You know, I'm starting to think the batman meme works a little too well.

I saw something like this but without the quotes. Edited out cause spoilers isn't working on mobile app.


I hope 8man and his sister make up. It seemed like it was one of the few relationships he has where he can be more vulnerable in that he openly shows how much he cares for her (getting mad at her dude friend for referring to him as 'brother', falling for her rouse that got him to go on the camping trip, accepting her request to the club to help out her dude friend's sister). He's a doting brother for sure.

Classy Hydra
Oct 30, 2011

You did wrong, Jack,
rest your soul.

Clarste posted:

I don't think Hayama is inherently wrong about Hikki, Hikki's defenses are just too strong. Trying to help him any way at all implies that he's weak in some way, and he can't afford to let himself believe that. His whole identity at this point is caught up in "they're not rejecting me, I'm rejecting them", so I don't think it's even possible for him to accept outside help.

I guess you could twist that into "Hayama's understanding of him was too shallow", but I don't think it really matters what Hayama did.

I agree, actually. It was mentioned that Yukino sent gifts to her family still, because she "hates them, but doesn't want to be hated". Whether this is true or not, Hikigaya is much the opposite, in that he can and does care for the well being of others but insists on framing himself in ways where he must be hated. Hayama attempting to directly contradict that would never have worked, because rather than it being something that Hiki just had happen to him, it was a conscious decision on his part to take that position in order to maintain the illusion of power; so long as Hiki thinks that society rejects him because of the reasons he's outlined to himself and the actions he's taken for that specific reason, his world remains intact and he can maintain his self respect. The problem is, I don't think Hikigaya is doing a good job convincing himself of that any longer.

Season 2 so far has made much ado about 'preserving the status quo', and how we sometimes act in inauthentic ways or deny our own growth in order to prevent our social arrangements from changing. Basically, I think that's why Hiki's starting to crash so far. It's getting harder to preserve the illusion that everyone means him ill, and he's starting to recognize a lot of his problems are his own fault, so his sense of self-worth isn't being propped up by his rationalizations. At the same time, he refuses to acknowledge this, because it would be irrevocably changing his social arrangements, with which he has been satisfied with so far.

Classy Hydra fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Apr 28, 2015

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

Remember when the twist of haganai was that they were friends all along, it's gonna be the same for this imho

Wark Say
Feb 22, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

Namtab posted:

Remember when the twist of haganai was that they were friends all along, it's gonna be the same for this imho

That dumb twist was the least of that show's problems. The one good thing it had going on was the scientist girl voiced by the same VA that voices Sakura Kasugano... which to this day I still can't unhear.

Hikki being his own worst enemy is a thing that, at least in my opinion, has way more gravitas in a series like this one as opposed to Watamote.

The_Frag_Man
Mar 26, 2005

Classy Hydra posted:

Hikigaya is much the opposite, in that he can and does care for the well being of others but insists on framing himself in ways where he must be hated.

Nice analysis. That was a good post.

Namtab
Feb 22, 2010

Wark Say posted:

That dumb twist was the least of that show's problems.

Please don't imply that haganai had problems

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

I love how this episode presented us with the perfect answer to the problem if Hiki didn't have to always solve things the way he does only for him to summarily reject it in the last line.

The_Frag_Man
Mar 26, 2005

I really liked the scene where Yui moved her chair over

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...

The_Frag_Man posted:

I really liked the scene where Yui moved her chair over
Cute girl leans against him and rubs his hair, pushes her away with his hands

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Coaaab posted:

Cute girl leans against him and rubs his hair, pushes her away with his hands

Which is exactly what he would do?

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...

Sakurazuka posted:

Which is exactly what he would do?
Yes, but I still find it amusing.

Myriad Truths
Oct 13, 2012
I don't know if it's just Studio Feel I have to thank for this, or also an uptick in the quality of the source material, but this season is miles better than the first one (which I already really liked!). Some great scenes in this episode. I'm still not sure I 'get' Yukino, but I hope she gets over whatever it is soon.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...

Myriad Truths posted:

I don't know if it's just Studio Feel I have to thank for this, or also an uptick in the quality of the source material, but this season is miles better than the first one (which I already really liked!). Some great scenes in this episode. I'm still not sure I 'get' Yukino, but I hope she gets over whatever it is soon.
Most of the subtle physical gestures the characters act out are straight out of the LNs, but Feel is definitely putting a lot of care and attention into the character animations and direction. It's not Hyouka-level (what is), but it's definitely built on a similar ethos. Also, Volume 8 (which just ended) and Volume 9 (which starts next week) are widely regarded to be the best in the series.

Mad Lupine
Feb 18, 2011

all the things you said
running through my head
Great episode! Glad 8man and his sister made up! :kimchi: I wish I didn't spoil myself on what happened on this arc, but it was still great to see it play out. Man, that ending is kind of bittersweet, though. One of the best series this season; only second to 'Ore Monogatari!!' IMO.

Healbot
Jul 7, 2006

very very very fucjable
very vywr very




The studio has some soccer cynics employed it looks like (a shot from the student council room; looks like Jose Mourinho).

Healbot fucked around with this message at 12:32 on May 3, 2015

Solanumai
Mar 26, 2006

It's shrine maiden, not shrine maid!

Sakurazuka posted:

I love how this episode presented us with the perfect answer to the problem if Hiki didn't have to always solve things the way he does only for him to summarily reject it in the last line.

I'm a bit late watching this episode but, yeah holy poo poo, that was a right hook from nowhere. The whole thing had me going, like Yeah Hiki, that's the way to be! Solve the problem without hurting anyone. Positivity! And then the "right" answer makes the whole thing look like a bad joke and the punchline is that he instantly shuts it out. Goddamn.

Butt Ghost
Nov 23, 2013

Sakurazuka posted:

Which is exactly what he would do?
actually he should give them to me.

The_Frag_Man
Mar 26, 2005

Shere posted:

I'm a bit late watching this episode but, yeah holy poo poo, that was a right hook from nowhere. The whole thing had me going, like Yeah Hiki, that's the way to be! Solve the problem without hurting anyone. Positivity! And then the "right" answer makes the whole thing look like a bad joke and the punchline is that he instantly shuts it out. Goddamn.

I don't get it. What does he say?

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

To paraphrase: 'if life were a videogame would I go go back to my last save and try again? Haha, no.' after student council girl gives him her ideal scenario, which would have worked out much better, or at least been less underhand.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...
Okay, I feel like posting Hachiman's LN monologue at the beginning and end of this arc:

SNAFU Volume 8 Prologue & Epilogue posted:

“What if?”

This is a “what if?” scenario.

What if life was like a game where you could load up a save file and go back to a point where you could alter your choice? Would your life change in any way?

The answer is a resounding no.

Only those who were blessed with choices would benefit. To those who never had those choices in the first place, that hypothetical scenario was meaningless.

As such, there would be no regrets. More accurately, it was life itself that was the epitome of regrets.

That’s how it was.

There was also the “little too late” scenario. Once you got started on “what if” scenarios, you wouldn’t see the end of it. Nothing would change regardless of the answer you gave. The moment you had settled on a decision, it was already too late to take it back.

Ifs, parallels, and loops were constructs that didn’t exist in this world. In short, the scenarios in life were all linear. Preaching for possibilities was nothing but a futile effort.

I was fully aware of how wrong I was. The world, however, was a bigger perpetrator than I was.

It was ridden with wars, poverty, discrimination and a bunch of other things. Job hunting could easily go unrewarded with absolutely no offers. Even part time jobs took your pocket change as collateral damage, particularly in the cases where you had to cover the missing amount from your own pocket when you had to do a money count.

So where exactly did this world’s truth exist? A truth defined by the wrongdoings of this world couldn’t be called a truth at all.

On the other hand, the truth may very well be in the form of all that was wrong in that world instead.

But, was there any meaning in trying to prolong something that was bound to end?

Eventually, you’ll lose everything. This was an absolute truth.

But still, even so.

The eventual loss of everything had beauty to it.

The eventual end of everything had meaning to it. Even things like temporary repose, a combination of stagnation and uncertainty in life, would eventually be something you couldn’t deal with anymore.

Coming to terms with these truths was what you should be doing.

One day, sure enough, you’ll look back on the things you had lost as if they were treasures you had come to adore and as if they were similar to the happiness of drinking sake by yourself.



× × ×


“What if?”

This is a “what if?” scenario.

What if life was like a game where you could load up a save file and go back to a point where you could alter your choice? Would your life change in any way?

The answer is a resounding no.

Only those who were blessed with choices would benefit. To those who never had those choices in the first place, that hypothetical scenario was meaningless.

As such, there would be no regrets. More accurately, it was life itself that was the epitome of regrets.


Now then, there was something I thought I really wanted to protect, but what exactly was it?

krnhotwings
May 7, 2009
Grimey Drawer
drat, I should really read the LN..

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
Books 1-6 cut a lot in the anime adaptation, but most of it is fluff with the secondary characters. 7-8 have had some actually important monologue sections cut out. For example, Hikigaya reacts the way he does to Hayama's "you help people because you just want someone to help you, right?" because he thought Hayama understood him and he's incredibly pissed that Hayama got it so wrong.

It's a good mirror to the end of this episode.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...

Einander posted:

Books 1-6 cut a lot in the anime adaptation, but most of it is fluff with the secondary characters. 7-8 have had some actually important monologue sections cut out. For example, Hikigaya reacts the way he does to Hayama's "you help people because you just want someone to help you, right?" because he thought Hayama understood him and he's incredibly pissed that Hayama got it so wrong.

It's a good mirror to the end of this episode.
Sort of OT, are you the same Einander that edited Frog-kun's translations of the series? If you are, I'd just like to say that you both did good work.

Einander
Sep 14, 2008

"Yeh've forged a magnificent sword."

"This one's only practice. The real sword I intend to forge will be three times longer."

"Can there really be a sword as monstrous as that in this world?"

"Yes. I can see that sword... Somewhere out there..."
Only for volume 1, which was before he stepped in. Got really busy and never got back into it.

Shame, really, because it was a lot of fun.

krnhotwings
May 7, 2009
Grimey Drawer
Is there some central place that has PDF versions of the various translations? I've only found pdfs for vols 1-3.

Kaelan Zero
Nov 30, 2004

smut

Sakurazuka posted:

To paraphrase: 'if life were a videogame would I go go back to my last save and try again? Haha, no.' after student council girl gives him her ideal scenario, which would have worked out much better, or at least been less underhand.
I don't think that's quite right. The subs and and the VN quote from above are roughly the same:

“What if?”
This is a “what if?” scenario.
What if life was like a game where you could load up a save file and go back to a point where you could alter your choice? Would your life change in any way?
The answer is a resounding no.


Hachiman is saying that it wouldn't change anything, not that he wouldn't choose it. It's fatalism, not a rejection of the right answer. He believes that even if he went back and knew the right answer, nothing would change - probably because he'd still be the same person. The whole episode is a little personal journey where he takes steps forward but isn't able to go all the way. He gets good advice from his little sister, and his friends offer to help. He doesn't REFUSE them, but he's not strong enough to accept their help and pursue a better solution.

EDIT: I went and checked the dialogue in the episode and he says:
人生は変わるだろうか
which, if you sloppily take it apart like an idiot:
<your life> は <change> <i wonder> か

I can't interpret this any other way than how it's translated in the VN and the alternative subs:
Would your life change?, followed by the line The answer is a resounding no.

I checked the CR subs, too, and they read: Would life change? The answer is no.

I think if he meant it in the sense of 'would I change anything', he would have said something like 私は人生を変わるだろうか, which is pretty distinct (as long as you ignore me butchering the grammar).

Kaelan Zero fucked around with this message at 12:45 on May 5, 2015

Tarezax
Sep 12, 2009

MORT cancels dance: interrupted by MORT
People who try to use buzzwords to substitute for actual thought are the worst.

Coaaab
Aug 6, 2006

Wish I was there...
To the contrary, I believe we as a community require an innovative flash idea in order to ascertain a consensus and develop organic growth as it points us towards the goal of synergistic output.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

There was some impressive gesticulation going on in that episode.

Kaelan Zero
Nov 30, 2004

smut
The way that guy's hands kept moving in circles the whole time is just profoundly unsettling. I've WORKED with people like this before, they're real.
The student council seems like it's going to disintegrate in an interesting way.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
I guess we're seeing the flaws of a personality designed to make people like her.

The choice to move the narrative focus away from the club is an interesting one. Marginalizing Yukino even more.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?


I take back what I said at the time this is pretty much spot on and now I want to watch the Nolan Batman movies again.

The_Frag_Man
Mar 26, 2005

Clarste posted:

The choice to move the narrative focus away from the club is an interesting one. Marginalizing Yukino even more.

The club is dead but it hasn't hit the ground yet. E: The dynamic they were trying to save has irreversibly changed. It's over.

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Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

Are we supposed to know what's going on with Yukino yet?

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