|
Sakurazuka posted:Nah, Hayato owns and going 'Hey, see what it's like?' was a pretty decent shot at showing Hiki the real cost of his actions. Meanwhile Hachiman is just profoundly uncomfortable. Up until that point he had been politely taking it all and interacting with the girls the minimum amount necessary; being nice. Suddenly the whole thing is a mess and his expression during the whole scene is this mixture of shock and dismay and confusion. The way he responds to Hayato afterwards is really awkward as a result. The way Yukino's older sister describes him kind of captures this: He sees malice everywhere, so his brain is literally unable to process what is going on here - not only is someone actively being kind but it's hard to read any malice into it, there's obviously nothing but benevolent intent. Simultaneously, Hayato is talking him up in a way that nobody else in the environment would - what he says about Hachiman's relationship with Yui & Yukino is fairly accurate but that seems like something he actively does not want to accept or acknowledge. Yukino's sister is a real manipulative monster but most importantly, I don't quite have a read on what her goals were in this episode. She was obviously using Hachiman as a tool, but for what ends? She clearly likes messing with him and Hayato for entertainment, but it seemed like she knew that this would contribute to Yukino running for president (to avoid seeing Hachiman hurt again) and maybe there was some other objective as well? Her having the phone number of Hachiman's little sister is... deeply unsettling, somehow. Does she have every single person in her little sister's social graph on speed-dial? I think this is one of the only episodes where we get a full, strong depiction of what Hachiman was probably like before the series starts: This extremely strong sense of learned helplessness, a defensive behavior where he just retreats and does the bare minimum necessary to endure things until they end. He was probably doing this for years and years. That former classmate is interesting too. It's hard to figure out what her deal is. I imagine she has motives that would be clearer in the LNs.
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2015 13:21
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 19, 2024 23:42 |
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:I Can't Believe My Anime is This Psychological! The Saika stuff is amusing since I assumed it was added to S1 & S2 to appeal to the rotten demographic, but I guess it was actually all over in the original work? Judging by the stuff I've seen from the VN it might have actually been more amped-up in the original. 
|
|
#
¿
Apr 27, 2015 16:10
|
|
|
Sakurazuka posted:To paraphrase: 'if life were a videogame would I go go back to my last save and try again? Haha, no.' after student council girl gives him her ideal scenario, which would have worked out much better, or at least been less underhand. “What if?” This is a “what if?” scenario. What if life was like a game where you could load up a save file and go back to a point where you could alter your choice? Would your life change in any way? The answer is a resounding no. Hachiman is saying that it wouldn't change anything, not that he wouldn't choose it. It's fatalism, not a rejection of the right answer. He believes that even if he went back and knew the right answer, nothing would change - probably because he'd still be the same person. The whole episode is a little personal journey where he takes steps forward but isn't able to go all the way. He gets good advice from his little sister, and his friends offer to help. He doesn't REFUSE them, but he's not strong enough to accept their help and pursue a better solution. EDIT: I went and checked the dialogue in the episode and he says: 人生は変わるだろうか which, if you sloppily take it apart like an idiot: <your life> は <change> <i wonder> か I can't interpret this any other way than how it's translated in the VN and the alternative subs: Would your life change?, followed by the line The answer is a resounding no. I checked the CR subs, too, and they read: Would life change? The answer is no. I think if he meant it in the sense of 'would I change anything', he would have said something like 私は人生を変わるだろうか, which is pretty distinct (as long as you ignore me butchering the grammar). Kaelan Zero fucked around with this message at 12:45 on May 5, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 5, 2015 12:13
|
|
|
The way that guy's hands kept moving in circles the whole time is just profoundly unsettling. I've WORKED with people like this before, they're real. The student council seems like it's going to disintegrate in an interesting way.
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2015 14:04
|
|
|
The_Frag_Man posted:This makes sense but I thought she didn't want to be president. Her sister was just messing with her. She wants to live up to people's expectations - especially her sister's - but she recognizes that people manipulate her for their own benefit or expect unreasonable things from her. Despite that, she still wants to live up to expectations. Here and there the show has also given us hints that she has ambitions of her own, aside from what people expect from her - but because she's drowning in all these expectations and the stereotypes people apply to her (capable, just like her big sister, etc) it's impossible to separate chasing her goals from doing what other people want her to do. Spoilering since hey, lots of recent episode poo poo: The student council president campaign was a natural place for that arc to become a mess because it was a situation where she was being asked to do something she probably wanted to do anyway. People expected her to run (her sister certainly did, at least) and she's the type of character that classmates will assume would be a good student council president. It ceases to be a choice and is basically just inertia. Assuming I'm interpreting this right, that's why Yui decided to run and part of why Hachiman decided to run: All they could see is outside expectations & pressure causing Yukino to run because that would solve everything. They couldn't know she was actually interested because she never communicated that to them. (To me, the saddest part of this arc and the last arc is the fact that NONE of the three main characters realized they could chase after the ideal solution that was presented in the end sequence of the previous episode. None of them properly understand each other and they don't communicate well enough for an idea like that to seem viable.) This arc will probably go to some good places, since it creates space for Hachiman to have some character growth, and he's seeing the direct consequences of how he 'solved' the problem last time. This episode also shows us that Hayato's social group is basically destroyed, despite the fact that Hachiman 'saved' it before. Kaelan Zero fucked around with this message at 19:35 on May 8, 2015 |
|
#
¿
May 8, 2015 19:28
|
|
|
The_Frag_Man posted:Yeah she did. He realized that and indirectly turned her down. His rejection might just be an extension of his defensiveness but you can view it as a subtle indication of character growth - he doesn't want to give up (yet, at least). In retrospect Ebina's conversation and a few other things were obvious red flags that things had ended really poorly there, and in this episode we get the first direct acknowledgement of that - everyone seemed okay with the status quo being maintained, but in reality it had been completely destroyed. Ebina and Tobe and the others believed they had put their relationships in stasis but a bunch of damage was done behind the scenes. Hachiman comments on this when observing the group, and you can tell from some of the other glimpses of the group (and Yui's behavior in general) that things are not okay. Hayato's group and Yukino/Yui/Hachiman share a core problem: dishonesty. Everyone hides their true feelings, so they're afraid to show vulnerability only to have a friend turn on them. The way Hayato's group keeps pulling in Yui/Yukino/Hachiman is illustrative here, because they feel 'safe' being vulnerable to outsiders - it doesn't jeopardize the wall between them and their friends. Then for Hachiman we have a parallel - he pulls in all sorts of outsiders (people the club has helped) to ask for advice on how to deal with the club, because he can't be open with Yui or Yukino. At this point in a sad fashion I think a happy ending for S2 would be as simple as Hachiman looking Yui or Yukino in the face and saying 'I'm sorry', or characters otherwise being honest with each other. All the other arcs could remain unresolved. (I'm hoping for it to go interesting places, though!) Overall the way this show hinges on relationship dynamics makes it engaging for me. The school stuff is set dressing; all the dynamics feel familiar from my childhood, personally, but I've observed most of them in workplaces & my friend circles as an adult. You build your life around validation or get used to being dishonest with everyone and that sticks with you...
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2015 22:47
|
|
|
Paracelsus posted:OTOH he also crushes a bit on the teacher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LphVWHdzyck Her voice actress does a good job with the lines.
|
|
#
¿
May 27, 2015 06:59
|
|
|
Latest episode starts off nicely.
|
|
#
¿
May 29, 2015 11:54
|
|
|
chumbler posted:While most of the characters made the transition between studios pretty well, I'm not a fan of 8man's season 2 look. He looks too normal or even cool, compared to his kind of runty and out of place first season design. The_Frag_Man posted:Do you really think he's gay? Reading between the lines etc, but Saika's a pretty subtle bit of characterization for Hachiman in my opinion. Saika is introduced early on and through the whole series he's a recurring character that occupies a fairly unique role in the cast: He's affectionate to Hachiman, doesn't have ulterior motives, is nonthreatening, and attractive. It's obviously playing on tropes and it's written in a comedic/subtextual manner, but it serves some plot/characterization purpose too: Over the course of the two seasons we've gotten lots of backstory and hints about how Hachiman views affection and social interaction as threats - veiled hostility, impure motives, dishonesty, etc. The most recent two episodes give a really concrete example of that - his internal monologue in 8 really emphasizes how the root of his fear is that he can't understand other people so he's always afraid of them. Then in the opening of the latest episode he's expressing this profound fear of being harassed and ridiculed at school because he made himself vulnerable by being honest. When he shows up in the club room they convey a real sense of tension and he suddenly relaxes once he realizes Yui and Yukino aren't going to treat him like garbage, despite his expectations. This is part of why the interactions with Yukino in the latter half leave him dumbstruck/confused - he can't view her or Yui as hostile or dishonest anymore since he's starting to understand them, and she's being genuinely affectionate in a way that only Yui has in the past. His normal solution for those sorts of things (cynicism) doesn't really apply. His interactions with Iroha have been relevant here too - repeatedly taking little steps out of his comfort zone, like offering to hold bags for her and being relatively familiar - despite the fact that she's constantly harassing him. So, how Saika fits into this: Saika is guileless, attractive and affectionate. Lots of Hachiman's behavior and internal monologues make it obvious that he is into girls. Saika is written to represent all the things a character like Hachiman would find appealing in a girl without any of the threats and uncertainty associated with them. Saika is arguably also the character in the series that Hachiman can understand the best because of that simplicity - which makes him less threatening. Over the whole course of the series while Hachiman's being intensely cynical and closed-off and hostile to Yui, Yukino &c, his behavior and internal monologue around Saika gives you a glimpse of how he'd probably be acting around girls were he not completely hosed up. He's starting to behave more like that with girls in this season (the teacher is the most obvious example). (Well, also: all the dialogue in the anime, manga, and VN makes it pretty clear that the writer could make him end up with Saika and it would be internally consistent. But other than a route branch in a VN, I don't think that's really on the table here, even if it's consistent with his character.)
|
|
#
¿
May 30, 2015 19:34
|
|
|
Classy Hydra posted:I grant that other people condemn the idea for less tasteful reasons, but for as much as my opinion is worth (not very), I read Zero's post as more or less in line with the rest of the analysis we've seen thus far. I'm not out to condemn anyone's opinions, and the people reading subtext into this series aren't crazy, it's there! I just like to try and focus on the non-romantic aspects of the show since a lot of people have a hard time picking up on them and they can be pretty confusing.  
|
|
#
¿
May 31, 2015 13:17
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 19, 2024 23:42 |
|
|
Yes_Cantaloupe posted:Yeah, I feel this. I mean, I still liked the season, and felt that it gave good payoff for things the first season set up, but it was painful to watch at times. I think I agree with the people who say the season should have ended around the 'genuine' speech. That was a really powerful moment. The amusement park trip could have worked well as a closer after that. The content they managed to plow through afterward was interesting, but it trails off on an odd note... maybe just because it was more heavily focused on romance than the show usually is. When I compare it with other shows I associate with Bad Feelings like Yurikuma or Madoka or Psycho-pass, those shows mostly get me to react through having a hosed up setting or horribly broken characters, but Oregairu doesn't work that way. I think Hourou Musuko might have been the last show to evoke the same sort of feeling for me.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 28, 2015 13:34
|
|