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Nintendo Kid posted:The UK system of half assed devolution is horribly broken, as is the life time appointment upper house. Furthermore they maintain FPTP despite being a parliamentary system, which basically is awful. There is no reason to reduce the US to a system where the majority of the country uses the congress for what are state level laws now, with the residents of the remaining states maintaining state government also voting on the national congress' issues for the un-state-ified remainder. You don't have to copy the feature precisely, you can have the senate as oppose to the house of lords being the upper house for instance. FPTP is terrible, but it's also the one used in the current American system so it's not any better or worse.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:06
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Stereotype posted:Willie Tomg gave you a pretty nice response, the first post in this thread was a good response. Sorry if your "Maybe the federal government shouldn't exist" idea doesn't get a huge positive reaction from people who have been discussing politics for several decades and devote huge portions of their lives to studying US and world history. I don't think everyone is out to get me, and your summary of my argument isn't, uh, my argument. Project your issues with the state of political discourse on someone else, obvious straw men is less attractive to read than ignorant what ifs.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:06
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Bel Shazar posted:Proportional* +-500k in a nation of 330 million is 0.15% of the population. Motherfucker, a difference of 0.15% is more than merely adequate.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:07
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I don't think everyone is out to get me, and your summary of my argument isn't, uh, my argument. Project your issues with the state of political discourse on someone else, obvious straw men is less attractive to read than ignorant what ifs. Locke Dunnegan posted:
sounds sort of like you are asking if maybe the federal government shouldn't exist. Which is what I said you said
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Apr 14, 2015 03:10
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Typo posted:You don't have to copy the feature precisely, you can have the senate as oppose to the house of lords being the upper house for instance. I don't understand what you think we need from the British system then. Parliamentary systems don't really work correctly when you have FPTP, and once you replace FPTP a presidential republic works just fine. Honestly both the Canadian and British systems are super broken, and it's lunacy to demand them in whole or in part.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:10
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My Imaginary GF posted:You identify power-sharing between branches as a problem, and not the core principle, of American democracy. You state you want a "decisive" and "technocratic" 'reform' of US governance. you got really loving weirder, happyelf
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Apr 14, 2015 03:11
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Locke Dunnegan posted:I don't think everyone is out to get me, and your summary of my argument isn't, uh, my argument. Project your issues with the state of political discourse on someone else, obvious straw men is less attractive to read than ignorant what ifs. "Ignorant what-ifs" such as "we already tried your idea and it created a horribly broken country that lurched from one economic crisis to the next until we created a real government". Oh wait, I forgot your stunning rebuttal of "yeah I've never even heard of the Articles of Confederation but that doesn't stop me from assuming maybe it'd be different this time I bet". Also "well I don't know who was responsible for Jim Crow, but instead of opening a book I'll assume it was Lincoln and the feds"
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Apr 14, 2015 03:16
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Nintendo Kid posted:Congress could expand itself at any time to address this, they just need to pass a new reapportionment bill. Look, if you want to keep things as close to the way they are written, I'm all for enforcing Article 1 Section 2 and having 2 U.S. Code § 2a subsection (a) declared unconstitutional, but an 11k House might bring its own problems. My Imaginary GF posted:Motherfucker, a difference of 0.15% is more than merely adequate. Maybe, but it is still not proportional. Plus, is it not rather irrelevant to compare the difference to the population of the country at large when considering proportionality in representation, because that 0.15% difference is still 100% more.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:18
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My Imaginary GF posted:+-500k in a nation of 330 million is 0.15% of the population. Motherfucker, a difference of 0.15% is more than merely adequate. why on earth are you comparing it to the total national population instead of the differences between the two populations? his post was that is it "proportional," +-100%, which is lovely.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:22
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Imagine I'm giving out candy and I give out 300 chocopies to 200 people, with a hundred people getting two and the other hundred getting one. The difference isn't 0.3%, its 100%.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:25
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Bel Shazar posted:Look, if you want to keep things as close to the way they are written, I'm all for enforcing Article 1 Section 2 and having 2 U.S. Code § 2a subsection (a) declared unconstitutional, but an 11k House might bring its own problems. Uh what does that have to do with the way it's written? Noone's saying we need to hit the no more than one rep per 30,000 limit that the constitution has, and the law that says "we're not going to bother beyond 435" can be overturned with a simple majority, much like all the routine reapportionment bills before 1920 worked. The current House facilities can fit 1100-1200 Reps easily, and that would, by making sure each state has at least 2 reps, heavily combat disproportianism.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:27
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Nintendo Kid posted:Uh what does that have to do with the way it's written? Noone's saying we need to hit the no more than one rep per 30,000 limit that the constitution has, and the law that says "we're not going to bother beyond 435" can be overturned with a simple majority, much like all the routine reapportionment bills before 1920 worked. There's no need for them all to be in the chamber together anyhow; all the real work is done elsewhere.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:34
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Typo posted:You don't have to copy the feature precisely, you can have the senate as oppose to the house of lords being the upper house for instance. FPTP is directly responsible for the existence of gerrymandering and getting rid of gerrymandering requires getting rid of FPTP
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Apr 14, 2015 03:43
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Locke Dunnegan posted:
Ignoring how the loss of Treasury Bill stability would gently caress over the rest of the planet... Look at the clusterfuck that is the various insurance and medical companies. Now imagine that, plus every state with it's own treasury mint, exchange rates, border crossings & customs, and militaries. Now imagine Texas and California declaring war on the rust belt to get access to the Great Lakes. It's a literal impossibility anyways; the break up of the United States would be The Depression to End All Depressions, and a number of states can't work as it is without the revenue sharing provided by federal oversight of fifty states worth of income and other taxes. Honestly, just read about Yugoslavia. Balkanization is not cool. Mister Facetious fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 03:44
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icantfindaname posted:FPTP is directly responsible for the existence of gerrymandering and getting rid of gerrymandering requires getting rid of FPTP They're actually completely unrelated, the word you're looking for is Single Member District.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:45
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Mister Macys posted:Honestly, just read about Yugoslavia. Balkanization is not cool. That sounds hard, instead just going to toke up and think of ways to totally disrupt Obama's police state maaaaaan  Whoah, like what if there were like no governments, whoah
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Apr 14, 2015 03:47
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I also think that many state governments would be much less "dysfunctional" in the sense that they would be able to immediately enact agendas that support the rich people who have bought them (this has already happened in a few states of course). They would be much more dysfunctional in terms of things like "not being a Third world Hell-hole."
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Apr 14, 2015 03:49
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VitalSigns posted:That sounds hard, instead just going to toke up and think of ways to totally disrupt Obama's police state maaaaaan Yeah, I mean, both parties are just the loving same, amirite? 
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Apr 14, 2015 03:49
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VitalSigns posted:That sounds hard, instead just going to toke up and think of ways to totally disrupt Obama's police state maaaaaan Look I know we bag on this poo poo all the time but maybe this once we should give the goober half a chance? He did back down on a number of things after I laid it out.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:49
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Look I know we bag on this poo poo all the time but maybe this once we should give the goober half a chance? He did back down on a number of things after I laid it out. Okay you're right, I'm sorry.
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Apr 14, 2015 03:50
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Yeah, and me being high at the time had nothing to do with me being an idiot. 
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Apr 14, 2015 03:57
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Stereotype posted:why on earth are you comparing it to the total national population instead of the differences between the two populations? his post was that is it "proportional," +-100%, which is lovely. Because all the population has the opportunity for representation. If your bitch is that a 0.15% difference in the proportion of reprentation isn't perfect representation, well, guess what, you got all the freedom in the world to move your rear end to Montana. You wanna, or you gonna sit in wherever the gently caress you are and complain that life ain't perfect because its off by 0.15%? Mister Macys posted:Yeah, I mean, both parties are just the loving same, amirite? Motherfucker, how much do you give to either party? None? Then you've purchased yourself no stakeholdership in this argument.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:00
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Incidentally one of the hugest problems many states have are ridiculous things the voters approved of, like prop 13, the general TABOR (taxpayer bill of rights) laws and balanced budget amendments. All of these things cripple any ability to plan for the future.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:01
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My Imaginary GF posted:Because all the population has the opportunity for representation. If your bitch is that a 0.15% difference in the proportion of reprentation isn't perfect representation, well, guess what, you got all the freedom in the world to move your rear end to Montana. You wanna, or you gonna sit in wherever the gently caress you are and complain that life ain't perfect because its off by 0.15%? I have family in America; you're God damned right it's my business Rahm.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:12
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Mister Macys posted:I have family in America; you're God damned right it's my business Rahm. How much money you give to your local Democratic party? If you ain't a stakeholder in the Democratic process, you're entitled to no say in the processes of our democracy.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:28
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My Imaginary GF posted:How much money you give to your local Democratic party? If you ain't a stakeholder in the Democratic process, you're entitled to no say in the processes of our democracy. I don't think you understand the "demo-" part of that word.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:32
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VitalSigns posted:I don't think you understand the "demo-" part of that word. I don't think you understand the responsibilities which come with democracy, rather, you want a whole buncha priviledges without engaging with your community and participating through the appropriate systems to earn them. Come on OP, contribute enough to your local and state Democratic parties or candidates to get automatically invited to all future events in your state. You'll get rid of that feeling of disenfranchisement lickity-split, and all you have to do is click now to empower yourself through your contribution. What are you waiting for, OP? Help empower your community right now and acquire the access necessary to understand the stressors of public service from your humbly elected servant's perspective.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:40
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My Imaginary GF posted:What are you waiting for, OP? Help empower your community right now and acquire the access necessary to understand the stressors of public service from your humbly elected servant's perspective. This part right here is very good advice.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:43
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My Imaginary GF posted:How much money you give to your local Democratic party? If you ain't a stakeholder in the Democratic process, you're entitled to no say in the processes of our democracy. My family is my stake, and I expect a positive return for it.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:44
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Mister Macys posted:My family is my stake, and I expect a positive return for it. You and the 4 billion other families on this planet, pal. Get in line; compared to the Clinton family, the Kennedy family, or, hell, the Bush family, who the hell is your family and why are you worth giving a drat about? Or, skip the line by affecting positive impacts upon your local community through stakeholdership in the Democratic process.
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Apr 14, 2015 04:48
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My Imaginary GF posted:You and the 4 billion other families on this planet, pal. Get in line; compared to the Clinton family, the Kennedy family, or, hell, the Bush family, who the hell is your family and why are you worth giving a drat about? Those families all suck though.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:03
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OP: look up the Rodrik's 2000 JEP paper, "How far will international economic integration go?". It shows exactly what you have to give up to obtain meaningfully powerful local sovereignty in government, with that power employed towards being responsive to locally mobilized movements.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:13
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ReidRansom posted:Those families all suck though. Only because you haven't married into one. Maybe you should lower your ambitions, chief, and go for someone more realistic while preparing your offspring to achieve an appropriate utilization of the founding principles of advancement in americs.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:14
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Down with the fed! OPPRESSION!  SMOKE WEED  EVERYDAY! Actually, gently caress weed. Would rather have a strong federal government that has the power to shut down bigoted assholes and local government shitlords from hanging people for occasionally putting their penis in another dude's butt. Expand the fed.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:14
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Avalanche posted:Down with the fed! OPPRESSION! This, this I agree with. One of the greatest threats to our freedom is our response to terrorism, and one of the greatest financing mechanisms of terrorism is international drug smuggling from the undeveloped world to the developed world, namely, through Al Qaeda-controlled territory in Africa and ME region to reach Europe. The solution to preserve our freedom? Decentralize power in America by empowering Europe to integrate fully into American representational democracy, with an adequate first step being parity in our respective criminal justice systems. For instance, Europe does nothing to contribute to the war on drugs by incarcerating addicts for life. Solution? Europe begins to implement privitized prisons and strict drug sentencing guidelines, so that our freedom in America may be secured from our own reaction for all future generations. OP, your need for weed erodes freedom in America. This is why institutions such as DEA were forced to harvest your international data usage. Why don't you participate in the process and lobby to have weed legalized, rather than advocating for seccession as an easy answer to your narrow-minded issue?
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Apr 14, 2015 05:22
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My Imaginary GF posted:You and the 4 billion other families on this planet, pal. Get in line; compared to the Clinton family, the Kennedy family, or, hell, the Bush family, who the hell is your family and why are you worth giving a drat about? Oh, you're a Randian. Now I understand why you're explicitly against the American theory that all men are created equal. By the way, is Fountainhead a good read? I can't say I'm a horror fan. Yes, I know you're a gimmick. But the dedication you put into parroting objectivist dogma is just bizarre.
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Apr 14, 2015 05:41
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All of theese troublesome areas would be better if we had been allowed to continue Reconstruction. Gerrymandering? Somewhat inevitable but driven to extremes by white america's intense need to dilute the voting power of blacks. Post-realignment Republicanism? A mechanism of Revenge by lost-causers who are unable to accept that hteir great-great-great-grandfathers were ponces who could not stand in the line-of-battle against hordes of unwashed irishmen and krauts. We keep fighting the Civil War over and over again in increasingly arcane arenas. The solution to this is not to give the confederates what they want, but to crush them. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 06:05 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 06:03
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This nation is actually a paradise where every citizen, and many noncitizens, are absolutely free to express themselves, to love, to move across borders, to engage in trade, to make fortunes, to criticize the government, to praise God or deplore him, and to traverse its broad highways and take in its scenic parks. That which has never been achieved in all history, has been achieved in America. It's easy to criticize the prosperous, egalitarian and bureaucratically sound model which we have wrested from the founders' original intentions but this is it. The stable and effective governance of 300 million. It is astonishing. Nobody, not the greatest politicians, not the greatest social scientists, and certainly not the activists, can think of even a single reform that could be implemented and cause measurable change. That's not gridlock, and it's not corruption ; it's the closest thing to perfection that does not proceed directly from the hand of God.
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Apr 14, 2015 06:08
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SedanChair posted:That's not gridlock, and it's not corruption ; it's the closest thing to perfection that does not proceed directly from the hand of God. Actually, about that... 
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Apr 14, 2015 06:11
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PupsOfWar posted:All of theese troublesome areas would be better if we had been allowed to continue Reconstruction. The only way to crush them is to win another war for freedom and democracy. Think on American history and tell me this: when have been the only times when civil rights were being actively expanded? Answer: during war. We integrated the military because war gave us a general with courage; we cracked down on the south because a man cannot be asked to die for his country in the age of television without the right to vote. We have an enemy who is fighting total war against us; we have the urgent need to expand civil rights in America. We need leadership in Washington, men who are willing to call upon the suitable men of our nation to rise up to defeat those who would destroy our way of life, to use an empowered national army to fight them over there so we can get back to avoiding fighting ourselves over here. War. War is the only solution to the perceived loss of entitlement which was reported in the OP. War is the only period when American perception is allowed to become single-minded in its hatred of the enemy, when we can define our enemy on our own terms and differentiate ourselves from them by make all Americans part of an us that's better than them. War, what is it good for? National unity and straightening out disillusioned young adult males such as the OP by instilling a do-or-die sense of purpose behind why our capitalist democracy is the best of all systems in the world. SedanChair posted:This nation is actually a paradise where every citizen, and many noncitizens, are absolutely free to express themselves, to love, to move across borders, to engage in trade, to make fortunes, to criticize the government, to praise God or deplore him, and to traverse its broad highways and take in its scenic parks. That which has never been achieved in all history, has been achieved in America. It's easy to criticize the prosperous, egalitarian and bureaucratically sound model which we have wrested from the founders' original intentions but this is it. The stable and effective governance of 300 million. It is astonishing. Christ, SedanChair, quit making good posts I agree with. My only contention is that meaningful reform is entirely possible to be implemented that would affect measurable change; all we need to do so is accept reality and fight this war in the open, with all our heart, all our soul, and all our hellfire. My Imaginary GF fucked around with this message at 06:16 on Apr 14, 2015 |
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Apr 14, 2015 06:13
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