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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Tell me about democracy in Germany and Japan after WWII
 
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thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007

JnnyThndrs posted:

I'm only an amateur historian, but my recollection is that both Germany and Japan had elements of democracy before WWII - the Weimar Republic was a parliamentary democracy and Japan also had an elected body of representatives - in practice the Emperor was not an absolute ruler.

As for the failure of democracy in Iraq/Afghanistan, you could easily write volumes about it, but the short answer is a lack of nationalism - to hold a democracy together, the citizens must be loyal to their country over all, not their region/religious faction(Iraq) or local leader/warlord(Afghanistan).

For a successful democracy, you also need a strong middle class, a reasonably educated populace, and a decent infrastructure - you can't just install a type of government and expect it to flourish, something that US leaders/policy makers either don't understand or don't care about.

There were also political considerations. One of the proposed solutions in Iraq was to split it up into 3 states, with the Shia, the Shiites, and the Kurds, each having their own states. But setting up an independent Kurdish state would have royally pissed off Turkey, which has been fighting Kurdish separatist groups like the PKK for decades, so setting up an independent Kurdistan in Turkey's back yard wasn't really diplomatically feasible.

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thrakkorzog
Nov 16, 2007

icantfindaname posted:

They're not particularly liberal compared to developed countries, but they are compared to Iraq, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. Maybe not Pakistan, but Turkey at least

Turkey is an oddball case where the military has historically been more Westernized than the general public, and has had veto powers over civilian authority since Ataturk. Any politician that went too extremist going too Communist or too Religious, risked the wrath of the military, and could expect a coup, followed by general elections set by the generals. It was not a great system for Democracy, but it did provide something approximating checks and balances.

Erdogan has used his time in power to replace everybody that might oppose him and shut down all independent press. On paper Turkey is a democracy, in actual practice, not so much.

* # ¿ Apr 20, 2015 09:18
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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Tell me about democracy in Germany and Japan after WWII