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I grew up as a semi-religious reformed Jew in America, but I've been dating a Persian orthodox girl for the past five months or so. One thing that has been made pretty clear so data is that So, so much of the food and dress culture, in addition to some rules, that people think of as standard Judaism is actually just the Eastern European Ashkenazi tradition. Everyone wears yarmulkes though, even the Chinese Jews did.
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May 15, 2015 00:38
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| # ¿ May 18, 2024 01:13 |
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I don't think Sephardim ever suffered discrimination from other Jews in America. If anything it was the other way around. From what I know, the first communities in America were Sephardim. A lot of them came to America and Israel after the 1960s when most of the Muslim world's Jewish communists were no longer welcome.
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May 15, 2015 01:27
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"Mainstream" Judaism is still a hodge-podge of different things from different background. Go to a Belorussian Orthodox community and they will have a different variations on the rules than Syrian orthodox or Transylvanian Hasidim. The more religious you get, the more divisive things get about which traditions should be followed which way. Some things, like eating pork or when the sabbath starts are universal. Others, like etiquette for a get or whether a married man should listen to another female sing are more divided. The Sephardic communities were way more traditionally religious that their more agnostic European counterparts during the first half of the 20th century. When they all got chased out of the Middle East, they had a huge effect on changing and increasing how religious Israel was once they arrived.
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May 16, 2015 20:32
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Yeah, I'd say it's closer to the racism Asian Americans face now (though Asian Americans have always faced more racism in America in most ways). It's the complementing of certain traits, combined with the implication that these traits are from your spooky foreign culture and the side effect of some negative aspects of that culture. This is probably the most concise piece I've read in a while about modern anti-Semitism. A pro-click for sure. http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2015/03/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/
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May 22, 2015 16:49
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MJP posted:Do you believe Israel has a right to exist based upon the Jewish-centric belief that it belongs to the Jewish people? This is totally a can of worms, but I hear a lot about Jewish right of return to the Arab world. when criticism of Israel is brought up. This sounds nice, but I think it's completely ignoring why people left and why they don't give a poo poo about going back. Jews living in the muslin world had almost always been living in a state of submission and were tolerated as a minority very infrequently and always with a deal of second-class citizenship. Anti-semitism in the Arab word grew enormously during the 30s and 40s due to the Nazis and exploded after a Jewish state was established. Things now are incredibly hostile, but they were never super welcoming to begin with. All the Sephardim in Israel who came don't want to uproot and become minorities in a society where they're seen as human scum. Now, with Political Islam sweeping the region, there is no real community that Jews could reestablish themselves in. This may sound a bit bigoted, but I think there's a bigger chance for Palestinians winning a better life in the cities of Israel than there is of a Jewish resettlement in Cairo or Baghdad.
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May 22, 2015 18:54
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Obdicut posted:All races are fictitious constructs, it has no actual definable meaning. We could try and have a nice discussion and not make it a poo poo show. Here's an idea: Let's try to keep the conversation about Judaism in terms of the culture, religion and history, and maybe step away from trying to debate whether Palestinians are human or whether the Zionist state should be gassed with sarin or nuked from orbit.
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May 23, 2015 01:40
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For a majority of European history, Jews in any city or town lived in a ghetto, where they were segregated and lived by practicing niche trades and crafts. There, the distinctions in lifestyle and dress were more distinct.
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May 26, 2015 15:55
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Jewish people were the only people who were allowed do certain trades, like banking or usery. That's why they were over represented.
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May 27, 2015 23:37
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American Jews, when polled, very strongly support Israel's existence, but they fracture when it comes to the current government. The more religious communities (that believe in Israel, a lot of sects reject Zionism) have become very republican in recent years because they often see Islam as the enemy and the war on terror as a good thing. Less religious American Jews skew very liberal and really don't like or support oppressive nature of modern Israel. There's of course a lot to the conversation, but those are some of the major factions of opinion.
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Jun 2, 2015 05:49
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My Jewish girlfriend's father was born and raised in Iran. His brother and father were killed by a mob that attacked Jews in their town and caused the rest of the family to immigrate. He does not have high opinions of Iran.
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Jun 3, 2015 07:09
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MJP posted:Isn't that a backlash to the fact that Israel was formed by basically unilateral decree of the United Kingdom under the Balfour Declaration? Arab and Muslim Anti-Semitism didn't unanimously spring up as a result of the Balfour declaration, and violently negative views of Jews wasn't just a righteous reaction to the idea of displaced people in Palestine. There were violent riots and pogroms in the Muslim world throughout the 1920s, 30s, and 40s. Ascribing this to just uproar about a Jewish state that didn't exist and largely wasn't supported by the Jewish communities in the countries where the attacks were going on is pretty bullshit. These events came about mostly the same way Medieval European violence happened. Tensions were high for whatever reason and some leader accused the Jewish community of some scheme like trying to poison Muslims or burn down a mosque. You're speaking like the Balfour declaration was immediately on the minds of the entire Muslim world. It wasn't. Muslims in Persia, Algeria, Morroco, and Egypt were not directly effected and didn't blow up in protest. But, they still killed Jews in riots and treated them as second class citizens in many ways. Again, the Nazis had a huge impact on the spread of modern Anti-Antisemitism, but it has deeper cultural roots than Hitler or David Ben-Gurion. As for your point about Palestinians, I agree that Israel is poo poo towards them and there is an enormous amount of prejudice and bad will there. However, what you're bringing up doesn't address the original thing you brought up: that Jews in Israel should have some Right of Return to go back to their Arab homelands. I'm saying those communities don't really exist any more. So, while there is a large and very real community of Muslims in Israel, there is no such thing in the Arab world. There's less than 50 Jews in Egypt, because they're not welcome there. There are more Muslims living in Tel Aviv than in most of the Arab world. How do you imagine Jews would regain a community in Cairo? Last Buffalo fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jun 16, 2015 |
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Jun 16, 2015 21:43
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| # ¿ May 18, 2024 01:13 |
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Those are both dumb points. Ashkenazi Judaism IS European culture, and some of the great writers, musicians, thinkers, and scientist of Europe have been Jews. I've never heard Jews described as having a problem with European culture, whatever that vague term means. Also, of the super rich Jews on the planet, they have a fairly broad spectrum of political alignment. What is the conspiracy? To destroy Europe?
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Jun 29, 2015 00:22
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