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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:All this talk about Ultron has made me realize that he isn't halfway a good a villain as, say, Koba from the Apes movies, or a character with a few more lines, The Bullet Farmer. He's a loving terrible villain, because - as we've seen - he is not visualized well at all. We have to piece together scraps of information from the 'cool-sounding' but vague dialogue, which is frequently contradicted by the madly inexpressive visual storytelling. Ultron's key inspiration is how the twins survive the bombing, and then voluntarily subject themselves to deadly experimentation. Both those events take place entirely offscreen. Ultron sympathizes with Weird and Fast because he is impressed by their determination to keep fighting. He attempts to kill Jarvis because Jarvis is 'just a slave to Stark', and Ultron sees complacency as the biggest threat to the world. This is visualized as a blob getting stuck by lightning. (You know what happens when a blob is struck by lightning? In contrast to what we are told, we are shown that the kids are anticapitalist protestors who make a tenuous alliance with Hydra to obtain weapons. When their weapons cache is raided, they join up with Ultron. Weird has the image of a meteor strike flash in her head, and immediately turns on Ultron - rejoining Hydra. Steve Rogers, smiling: "this is what Hydra was meant to be." SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 01:37 on May 25, 2015 |
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May 24, 2015 17:10
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Milky Moor posted:not going to lie, this line (he's winding up) being read as ultron talking about the universe and not himself and his plan is so much more interesting I think that is how it's meant to be read. That's the only way I can really look at the entire Ultron character and have it make sense. It also means that Ultron's character arc is a lot closer to Stark's (he sees that something horrible is coming and does something almost as horrible as a means of 'protecting' everyone from it). Read as it being Ultron boasting, nothing about Ultron's motivations really make sense.
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May 24, 2015 18:03
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Ultron: “That is not.... The human race will have every opportunity to improve.”
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May 24, 2015 18:36
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Dan Didio posted:I think that is how it's meant to be read. That's the only way I can really look at the entire Ultron character and have it make sense. It also means that Ultron's character arc is a lot closer to Stark's (he sees that something horrible is coming and does something almost as horrible as a means of 'protecting' everyone from it). The joke is that Avengers 2 is an incredibly stupid remake of Watchmen. PiedPiper posted:Why would a robot stop mid-sentence? Does his computer mind needs more time to think of the next line? It's unclear if anyone involved knew what a robot is.
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May 24, 2015 18:56
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Chocolate Teapot posted:It's hard to tell at times because her super powers (like everyone else in the film) are so poorly defined that it's difficult to tell exactly what some of the characters can do or not. Having poorly defined powers is kinda Scarlet Witch's whole thing going back to the source material, she has the
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May 24, 2015 19:44
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PiedPiper posted:Why would a robot stop mid-sentence? Does his computer mind needs more time to think of the next line? Maybe WE are the REAL robots.
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May 24, 2015 20:24
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PiedPiper posted:Why would a robot stop mid-sentence? Does his computer mind needs more time to think of the next line? He was going to finish with another sentence.
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May 24, 2015 20:37
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I really enjoyed the movie! But I'm a cheap date. Hulk versus Veronica was comic book movie nirvana.
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May 24, 2015 21:38
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PiedPiper posted:Why would a robot stop mid-sentence? Does his computer mind needs more time to think of the next line? It's not an isolated incident, either. When he's menacing the weapons dealer earlier in the film, he loses his train of thought and has to start over. I forget the exact lines though. The fact that he's scatterbrained and emotional despite being a robot is definitely a consistent character trait for him though. redshirt posted:Hulk versus Veronica was comic book movie nirvana. I'm not going to lie, the hulkbuster fight is pretty much comic book movies distilled down to their essence, with absolutely everything that entails.
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May 24, 2015 22:37
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RBA Starblade posted:Fury Road is a better movie in every way than Avengers 2. Is there even a point to watching it now that Fury Road's out?
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May 24, 2015 22:50
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Nolanar posted:It's not an isolated incident, either. When he's menacing the weapons dealer earlier in the film, he loses his train of thought and has to start over. I forget the exact lines though. The fact that he's scatterbrained and emotional despite being a robot is definitely a consistent character trait for him though. quote:I'm not going to lie, the hulkbuster fight is pretty much comic book movies distilled down to their essence, with absolutely everything that entails. I love everything about it. That Stark has a freaking satellite dedicated to the Hulk. That Banner helped design it. That it came with replaceable parts. I'll quibble though and suggest the first move should have been contain (as it was in the movie), but then evacuate. That first container entrapment should have been able to fly away - at least some distance.
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May 24, 2015 23:37
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Stairmaster posted:Is there even a point to watching it now that Fury Road's out? Honestly not really. I still think it was alright but like I said earlier, I thought the first one and all the more recent Marvel movies were a lot better.
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May 24, 2015 23:47
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RBA Starblade posted:Fury Road is a better movie in every way than Avengers 2. And when are you going to join the Avengers, Captain Obvious?
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May 25, 2015 20:56
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Grendels Dad posted:And when are you going to join the Avengers, Captain Obvious? I get a bit part in the third but I'm killed by Thanos to make it more intense.
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May 25, 2015 21:30
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Stairmaster posted:Is there even a point to watching it now that Fury Road's out? Pretty much this Fury road is a grown ups movie where Avengers is mostly a childrens movie.
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May 26, 2015 01:00
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Greataval posted:Pretty much this Fury road is a grown ups movie where Avengers is mostly a childrens movie. That is unfair towards a lot of movies for children.
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May 26, 2015 06:21
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And plenty of kids would love the poo poo out of Mad Max.
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May 26, 2015 06:38
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This is how the movie depicts Iron Man shooting at useless comedy nazis.
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May 26, 2015 08:00
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It's less a movie about superheroes and more a travelogue advertising Seoul, Johannesburg and Serbia(?)
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May 26, 2015 08:03
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Doctor Spaceman posted:And plenty of kids would love the poo poo out of Mad Max.
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May 26, 2015 08:17
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Josh Lyman posted:Mad Max is rated R though so very few kids will see it (in theaters) And yet goons say all the time how their favorite movie as an 8 year old was Robocop and Terminator.
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May 26, 2015 14:53
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computer parts posted:And yet goons say all the time how their favorite movie as an 8 year old was Robocop and Terminator. but they are the parents now
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May 26, 2015 15:43
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hiddenriverninja posted:but they are the parents now Goons don't have kids ----------------
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May 26, 2015 15:54
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computer parts posted:And yet goons say all the time how their favorite movie as an 8 year old was Robocop and Terminator. Well he did say "in theaters".
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May 26, 2015 15:59
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well he did say "in theaters". It's usually "in theaters" too. Something about how "my dad was cool and he let me see this" followed by some rant about why there are dumb children at this R rated movie.
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May 26, 2015 16:08
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I am amused at how many of these superhero flicks show time and time again that the world is worse off having capes running around. From The Dark Knight to Man of Steel to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Even Fox with its X Men shows what happens when mutants are around, Sentinels and a post apocalyptic future. gently caress Spider man has half the people he knows die all the time.
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May 26, 2015 17:15
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computer parts posted:It's usually "in theaters" too. I honestly don't recall if there were any kids at my screening but I bet there were.
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May 26, 2015 17:32
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Gatts posted:I am amused at how many of these superhero flicks show time and time again that the world is worse off having capes running around. From The Dark Knight to Man of Steel to the Marvel Cinematic Universe. The problem is all the issues that led to the capes were already present. The world isn't worse off than before, but the issues are dredged up to the surface. With earth-origined heroes, at least. Clark totally was to blame for turning on the space ship...but the human army would have done that soon enough, anyway.
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May 26, 2015 17:54
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Going back to this because, I'd just like y'all to check the trajectory of that laser. It's impossible for him to have pulled that off. I don't mean some 'magic xylophone' pedantry. It just shows that they filmed some squibs going off on a staircase and 'fixed it in post'. Integrating the live action and CG elements was not the focus.    The action exists as background noise for the character doing a pose, accompanied by a flash of white. The focus is on blinding the audience.
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May 26, 2015 18:00
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
I forgot about it until now, but yeah, there were quite a few times where bright lights would blind me and that never happens in other movies.
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May 26, 2015 18:31
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They say that when all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. That's what this movie felt like. Bunch of bad guys hiding out in Europe somewhere doing stuff you don't like? Hit with hammer. Create a robot which suddenly does a leap of logic from "World Peace" to "Kill all humans", apply more hammer. Have the Hulk go on a rampage in a city? Apply more hammer (to the face, repeatedly). Bad guy ends up being bad and doing bad stuff in some place? Apply more hammer. I am kind of fed to the gills by this stage. I miss superheroes being heroic and doing heroic things, including being smart like in Superman 2 and turning the tables on his attackers in a fun way, rather than winning by beating the poo poo out of them. Mind you, this does take into account Zod and Co beating a path of destruction to Washington DC etc, but for the most part Superman in that was more interested in trying to protect people than use the scenery to beat them to a pulp. I also miss tension and consequences. Right at the beginning of the movie where they were all assembled and fighting the bad guys in different places (rather than together as a cohesive group, looking out for each other, watching each others backs etc), the casual nature of their conversations as they were being shot at really removed the tension for me from the scene. They weren't concerned about the fight, so, as a result, neither was I. And this pretty much continued throughout the movie, only having it slightly come back when Hawkeye talked how he was just some average dude with a bow whilst everyone else got to be blam-powwie awesome. Consequences - Where are they? Massive ones which should have been asked when Stark had to fight Hulk in Johannesburg are hand waved away. Massive destruction in the city, and I am going to say I don't think that there wouldn't have been at least a few deaths as a result. And the responsibility for this? Who should be brought to task over this? Well apparently no-one. There is a mention about the South African government wanting questions to be answered by the Avengers (focused on Stark most likely), but nothing really comes of it. I can almost see when Ironman is in the Hulkbuster suit, and punching away, that he should be broadcasting "Nothing to see here folks, just go about your business", as if all the people traumatised and injured or killed mean nothing. At the end of the movie we're supposed to be glad that the Avengers are saving people from the danger that their creation (Ultron) put them in, not to mention the destruction of their city. I was more shocked that this was supposed to put them in a better light than if they hadn't of caused the problem in the first place. I thought the Man of Steel was terrible, but to be honest it's kind of an outgrowth of American foreign policy ever since Iraq. Go to a place, apply hammer, wreck poo poo for the general populace, cause massive amounts of mayhem and destruction, declare "Freedom!" and "Mission Accomplished", and then tell those who don't like it to get bent. Anyone who feels any kind of grievance over this situation moves from citizen to threat, and more hammer is applied. Oh and be accountable to no one. Superman once upon a time did heroic things, and wanted to save people from natural disasters, Zod, and Lex Luthor's Real Estate dreams. Now he lets his Dad die for no good reason, sees the destruction of Smallville and whilst fighting Zod causes the destruction of Metropolis. And by the end of the movie "I won't be monitored by you and I am accountable to nobody". If you disagree, I am gonna apply the hammer again. I dunno, I guess I miss having something heroic about the nature of superheroes, not just wanton destruction, explosions, immense amounts of CGI, and plot mashing to introduce as many characters as possible so they can make as many movies as possible from the resultant spin-offs. I am having Superhero Movie fatigue I guess. So, yeah, can't wait for Batman vs. Superman! It's gonna be great! Thank gently caress for Fury Road. Seriously.
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May 26, 2015 18:47
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Doing stuff in a "fun way" is exactly the "Mission Accomplished" poo poo you rail against.
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May 26, 2015 18:52
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The Dark Project posted:I thought the Man of Steel was terrible, but to be honest it's kind of an outgrowth of American foreign policy ever since Iraq. Go to a place, apply hammer, wreck poo poo for the general populace, cause massive amounts of mayhem and destruction, declare "Freedom!" and "Mission Accomplished", and then tell those who don't like it to get bent. Anyone who feels any kind of grievance over this situation moves from citizen to threat, and more hammer is applied. Oh and be accountable to no one. Superman once upon a time did heroic things, and wanted to save people from natural disasters, Zod, and Lex Luthor's Real Estate dreams. Now he lets his Dad die for no good reason, sees the destruction of Smallville and whilst fighting Zod causes the destruction of Metropolis. And by the end of the movie "I won't be monitored by you and I am accountable to nobody". If you disagree, I am gonna apply the hammer again. I dunno, I guess I miss having something heroic about the nature of superheroes, not just wanton destruction, explosions, immense amounts of CGI, and plot mashing to introduce as many characters as possible so they can make as many movies as possible from the resultant spin-offs. I am having Superhero Movie fatigue I guess. That's not what happens in Man Of Steel. Superman destroys a total of one empty, half-destroyed building, and doesn't say anything about being held unaccountable. He even submitted himself to interrogation earlier in the film, and says he has no choice but to trust people. It's a stark contrast to this film, where protestors against American imperialism are presented as stupid children. (Speaking of accountability: remember when Marvel films included the Army and Air Force? What happened to them?) But besides getting the plot wrong, your approach of looking at the bare plot (destruction happens! nobody stops it!) - skips over some basic questions. Like, for example what is the Hulk? What is the city? Why is Hulk attacking the city? Why is Iron Man fighting Hulk instead of, say, Thor? (The plot explanation is that Thor is unconscious but, again, I'm talking about the story.) What is Iron Man, in this film? Because the film does a bad job of at using superheroes as symbols to express concepts, people missed an actual subtle point: where the other characters have dream sequences, Banner's nightmare 'comes to life' and 'actually happens'. Red Witch is not mind-controlling him. She's doing the same thing she did to everyone else. The entire Hulk fight is, for all intents and purposes, a dream sequence. Stark literally flies into it, to try and wake Banner up. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:58 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 20:56
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computer parts posted:And yet goons say all the time how their favorite movie as an 8 year old was Robocop and Terminator. So many kids loved Robocop that they had a Robocop cartoon (they almost had an Aliens one, too).
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May 26, 2015 21:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:It's a stark contrast to this film, where protestors against American imperialism are presented as stupid children. (Speaking of accountability: remember when Marvel films included the Army and Air Force? What happened to them?) I don't think they were shown that way, but more as Our Heroes just not being able to understand why they weren't welcome everywhere. Between that, the hulk fight, and Wanda and Pietro's origin, it really felt like they were setting up for a Great Power/Responsibility message, but then that just didn't loving happen so maybe I was reading my own opinions into the tone of that scene.
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May 26, 2015 21:38
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Nolanar posted:I don't think they were shown that way, but more as Our Heroes just not being able to understand why they weren't welcome everywhere. Between that, the hulk fight, and Wanda and Pietro's origin, it really felt like they were setting up for a Great Power/Responsibility message, but then that just didn't loving happen so maybe I was reading my own opinions into the tone of that scene. The way it's written, the idea is that Weird and Fast are Stark's metaphorical children. they were born from his weapons, and Ultron represents their anger. Weird Witch eventually decides that Stark is 'just trying to do the right thing', and Ultron (the weapon) is her true father. She then rips Ultron's heart out, as a reference to the earlier scene in the boat: "Aw, junior. You're gonna break your old man's heart." It's a very weird "people don't kill people; guns kill people" message. And, besides the one shot of dollar signs scrawled over Stark's face, the real killer isn't brought up. As in Avengers 1, 'weapons' are used as an apolitical substitute for 'capitalism'. Characters are against 'weapons', because being against capitalism is too extreme. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 21:57 on May 26, 2015 |
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May 26, 2015 21:54
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Corek posted:So many kids loved Robocop that they had a Robocop cartoon (they almost had an Aliens one, too). Agreed, kids today are pussies
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May 26, 2015 22:48
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Corek posted:So many kids loved Robocop that they had a Robocop cartoon (they almost had an Aliens one, too). Rambo, too. And Swamp Thing. They felt like they were all made by the same people, too, ie. the best people.
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May 27, 2015 10:56
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Greataval posted:Pretty much this Fury road is a grown ups movie where Avengers is mostly a childrens movie. lol mad max is a 13 year olds wet dream theres nothing grown up about that shite
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May 27, 2015 23:29
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By "children's movie" he is referring to the level of quality, not the level of maturity.
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May 28, 2015 00:00
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