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Good loving god this thread
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Apr 29, 2015 18:46
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There's surely a point where a Good Mod is downloaded enough times that its existence becomes a service to the game, so surely the more a mod is downloaded, the lower the cut the maker of the game should be entitled to. So let's say there's a flat fee similar to Greenlight which you have to pay in order to upload mods, one which goes to Bethesda rather than Valve, and then an algorithm comparing the mod downloads to game sales. If you get even 2% penetration with a mod you shouldn't have to pay dick, but random reddit trash that gets maybe 50 downloads is paying out the full cut. First up, gently caress the current numbers, they're bullshit. Valve could go with 25% because that's a figure they can easily get away with, Bethesda could reasonably match that for the highest (lovely mod) bracket, and add in a £50 flat fee to make an account eligible to upload. Then it's just a case of tweaking where the breakpoints are!
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Apr 29, 2015 20:03
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my business opportunity
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Apr 29, 2015 20:46
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whjere are my loving paid mods?!?! whejre are my fuckjking free mods?!!?! MODS?!!?!!?!!11
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Apr 30, 2015 10:21
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I think Obama should nationalize all mods under a new federal agency. We should call it the State Modding Committee, aka Modsplan. The way it works: the Federal Modding Congress sets the five-year modding plan, which will be informed by both the needs of modding in our own country and also the state of the global modding movement. Each five-year plan will include quotas for multiple categories of mods, including (but not limited to) UI, combat, hats, boobs, reindeer, bears, armors, pictures of Lenin, and ENBs. Then Modsplan runs the numbers and assigns detailed production directives to modding firms and collectives throughout the country. These collectives will be self-organized on an ad hoc basis and send representatives back up to the Federal Modding Congress, so that the planning decisions are not divorced from the modding conditions on the ground. All mods will be free, of course, because the Constitution states the mods are fundamental right possessed by each and every citizen of the union, but there may be shortages so priority rations will be given first on a medical basis and then to those comrades who have earned the most labor tokens in that month. 
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Apr 30, 2015 10:52
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CJ posted:By the way as a result of Gaben showing his true colours by trying to sell mods and then not selling them, some redditors on /r/pcmasterrrace have decided to make their own digital distribution platform http://www.reddit.com/r/Project_Ascension They're making Steam but it's totally not Steam guys because the mods are available for free, like Steam, but not Steam. Patent Pending.
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Apr 30, 2015 11:08
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Golden Goat posted:They're making Steam but it's totally not Steam guys because the mods are available for free, like Steam, but not Steam. Patent Pending. they're building in a store aggregator which will allow you to browse the deals from major storefronts in one interface which is very useful
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Apr 30, 2015 11:55
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From Arthmoor's blog it looks like Steam haven't given them the money from paid mods after refunding people who bought them. Also, the actual refunds were done in steambucks instead of real money. Keep it classy, Valve.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:13
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Gantolandon posted:From Arthmoor's blog it looks like Steam haven't given them the money from paid mods after refunding people who bought them. Also, the actual refunds were done in steambucks instead of real money. Keep it classy, Valve. Eh, they can use it to buy a cheap game on Steam. Though say if somebody paid over 15 for a mod then yeah they should probably actually get the money back.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:16
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Golden Goat posted:Eh, they can use it to buy a cheap game on Steam. Though say if somebody paid over 15 for a mod then yeah they should probably actually get the money back. Yeah, that's scummy, but not too serious. It's worse along with the fact they hadn't paid the modders their due, because that means they effectively kept their part of the money.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:32
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Gantolandon posted:Yeah, that's scummy, but not too serious. It's worse along with the fact they hadn't paid the modders their due, because that means they effectively kept their part of the money. Okay yeah promising modders money then backpedaling before they get it is a little scummy. It's not a huge deal though if modders were unpaid before and this whole thing lasted about a week. Had it went on longer then it's be super lovely.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:41
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Gantolandon posted:Yeah, that's scummy, but not too serious. It's worse along with the fact they hadn't paid the modders their due, because that means they effectively kept their part of the money. Well not really because if you use the money to buy another game then the money goes to that developer. EDIT: It also says in the agreement that if a refund is given then the money is deducted from your total.
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Apr 30, 2015 12:47
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CJ posted:This but unironically. Doesn't desura do all this already (I remember installing portal mods with it real easy)
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Apr 30, 2015 13:11
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A Yolo Wizard posted:Doesn't desura do all this already (I remember installing portal mods with it real easy) It's different, okay?
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Apr 30, 2015 13:36
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is arthropod expecting to get paid on something that was recalled? Lmao
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Apr 30, 2015 13:46
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VideoGames posted:is arthropod expecting to get paid on something that was recalled? RIP United Steams of America 1776-2012
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Apr 30, 2015 13:53
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What the gently caress even was this crap? They develop this labyrinthian profit sharing scheme, develop the frontend, and push through the mountain of legal garbage to make it happen, and then roll it out in the most hosed up idiot way possible. Hey guys, let's radically alter and monetize a decades-old, established community with literally no forewarning or discussion. To make it even more insidious let's specifically target creators of some of the most widespread content and try to bribe them into locking their work behind a pay wall. Valve then iced the cake with some of the shadiest cash grabs I've ever seen (all refunds, including for broken content, are funny money!). 
Thunderbro fucked around with this message at 14:06 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 14:04
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Gantolandon posted:From Arthmoor's blog it looks like Steam haven't given them the money from paid mods after refunding people who bought them. Also, the actual refunds were done in steambucks instead of real money. Keep it classy, Valve. I don't know if he's the most reliable source. eta: haha though if they did refund the customers' money in steambux that is hilariously scummy. GunnerJ fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 14:05
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Even if Valve did give them the money as a gesture of goodwill, they wouldn't receive the money until the end of May.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:10
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If these guys didn't sign a contract stating that they'd be paid the money for their work, then lol. gently caress em.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:14
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dogstile posted:If these guys didn't sign a contract stating that they'd be paid the money for their work, then lol. gently caress em. They did but it also said they don't get the money in the case of refunds.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:15
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CJ posted:They did but it also said they don't get the money in the case of refunds. Then nobody was really screwed over. Case closed. Let's talk about Project Ascension
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Apr 30, 2015 14:30
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I was pretty upset about this, then I saw what he wrote above the comments section:Arthmoor posted:We as authors can withdraw our content at any time, for any reason. Valve put one condition on that though. Anyone who has already paid for a copy will get to keep that copy. The listing will remain visible to all paying customers as well as to the author, Valve, and Bethesda. We knew this throughout the entire pre-launch discussion. This is literally no different from buying a full game from Steam and later having a publisher withdraw it from the Steam Store. This happened with Realms of Arkania and I never lost access to the game I paid for when it did. The same goes for mods on the paid Workshop. Chesko knew this going in and agreed to those conditions. Valve's lawyers were entirely in the right to tell him that they're under no obligation to remove the content unless legally compelled to do so. Which means if Chesko wants it completely removed, he'll have to sue Valve, win, and then have the court order enforced. That's not gonna happen.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:41
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Gantolandon posted:I was pretty upset about this, then I saw what he wrote above the comments section: Amazon already tried the revoking digital purchases thing with Kindle and unfortunately chose to do it first with George Orwell's 1984. I'm pretty sure going forward this will always be the norm. All sales are final cuts both ways.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:44
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Yeah it's kinda hilarious to see him smugging it up about how "Chesko shoulda read the contract he signed  " above his day-by-day "Valve bilking Arthmoor" tally.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:45
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As far as I can tell, 99% of mods are garbage and useless. Ooo a weapon i can summon with the console, how awesome and immersive. Maybe this would have attracted some actual talented and creative people instead of lame babies who want to play as anime fox people
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Apr 30, 2015 14:45
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Fonzarelli posted:As far as I can tell, 99% of mods are garbage and useless. Ooo a weapon i can summon with the console, how awesome and immersive. Maybe this would have attracted some actual talented and creative people instead of lame babies who want to play as anime fox people Well, one of the mods that got behind the paywall was literally an armor you could wear with console 
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Apr 30, 2015 14:48
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Fonzarelli posted:As far as I can tell, 99% of mods are garbage and useless. Ooo a weapon i can summon with the console, how awesome and immersive. Maybe this would have attracted some actual talented and creative people instead of lame babies who want to play as anime fox people I'm sorry they're pronounced Kitsune! You pleb. Seriously though a lot of mods are really bad.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:50
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I've only ever released one mod for New Vegas that isn't a tweak/compatibility patch and it has 22 endorsments and nothing but positive comments! Then again it's literally one perk that has rather limited use. I could have probably only have charged $10 minimum.
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Apr 30, 2015 14:53
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Isn't a Bethesda game creation kit / editor that they release with the game the exact same tools they actually use to make the game in the first place? I mean, afaik it's not like they make a game from scratch and then make an editor that allows you to change the game... They make an editor and then use that to make the game and then release said editor to the public which then can also make content. What i'm trying to say is that I think claiming that the developer went through all the trouble to make modding tools, is a bit exaggerated perhaps. Pls correct me if this is bullshit... 
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Apr 30, 2015 16:50
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Humans Among Us posted:Isn't a Bethesda game creation kit / editor that they release with the game the exact same tools they actually use to make the game in the first place? I mean, afaik it's not like they make a game from scratch and then make an editor that allows you to change the game... They make an editor and then use that to make the game and then release said editor to the public which then can also make content. as far as I can tell, and the only major outstanding difference between the CK and the GECK from FO3 before it afaict is Workshop Integration, which Bethesda held up the release of the CK for for months and nobody in the modding community was asking for anyway (and, we now know, was the first step towards this loving debacle)
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Apr 30, 2015 16:58
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Humans Among Us posted:Isn't a Bethesda game creation kit / editor that they release with the game the exact same tools they actually use to make the game in the first place? I mean, afaik it's not like they make a game from scratch and then make an editor that allows you to change the game... They make an editor and then use that to make the game and then release said editor to the public which then can also make content. You're right to an extent, from what I understand the tools they release are more or less what they used to make the game in the first place but they also had to design the game in such a way that new content could be added at runtime. They also probably put more work into the tools for modding than they would for just internal development to make it more user friendly. They did put in a lot of effort to make decent mod tools, but they did that because they knew that modding would increase the value of the base game. I consider the Bethesda cut to be mostly about "licensing" the IP and engine rather than paying them for the mod tools. If I bought Just Cause 2 and made a stand alone game using their engine, assets and IP I wouldn't expect to be able to sell it on Steam without paying a similarly huge cut to the people who actually own the rights to those things, whether they provided mod tools or not.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:01
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Fair enough  Thanks
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Apr 30, 2015 17:06
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Humans Among Us posted:Isn't a Bethesda game creation kit / editor that they release with the game the exact same tools they actually use to make the game in the first place? I mean, afaik it's not like they make a game from scratch and then make an editor that allows you to change the game... They make an editor and then use that to make the game and then release said editor to the public which then can also make content. I can't speak of this specific case, but usually the internal tools are a bit less user friendly. And apart from that the game has to be designed to run the mod files. But yeah i think that's relatively minor compared to using their engine and IP.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:06
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Lucid Dream posted:You're right to an extent, from what I understand the tools they release are more or less what they used to make the game in the first place but they also had to design the game in such a way that new content could be added at runtime. They also probably put more work into the tools for modding than they would for just internal development to make it more user friendly. They did put in a lot of effort to make decent mod tools, but they did that because they knew that modding would increase the value of the base game. I consider the Bethesda cut to be mostly about "licensing" the IP and engine rather than paying them for the mod tools. If I bought Just Cause 2 and made a stand alone game using their engine, assets and IP I wouldn't expect to be able to sell it on Steam without paying a similarly huge cut to the people who actually own the rights to those things, whether they provided mod tools or not. Funny you bring up Just Cause 2 because despite no official modding tools being released, a huge loving free multiplayer mod was made for it, that was not only released free, but was actually made semi-official by the developers who said "Yeah, this is cool" and it is on Steam as a free mod. Bethesda can take a lesson out of their book next time they want to gently caress their customers.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:12
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Ddraig posted:Funny you bring up Just Cause 2 because despite no official modding tools being released, a huge loving free multiplayer mod was made for it, that was not only released free, but was actually made semi-official by the developers who said "Yeah, this is cool" and it is on Steam as a free mod. Sure, it absolutely makes sense for them to let people release free mods (just like Bethesda!), but do you think they would have been as supportive if those modders decided to charge for the multiplayer mod?
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Apr 30, 2015 17:15
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I don't think the concept ever occurred to any of the people involved. It does kind of kick the idea of 'Paid mods are the best way to ensure creativity' to the ground though, seeing as how these people did it not only completely off their own back, but without any formal tools released by the developers or any expectation of financial renumeration. It's almost as if... doing something awesome for a game you love is a huge reward in and of itself! Especially if other people get to enjoy it too.
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Apr 30, 2015 17:23
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Ddraig posted:I don't think the concept ever occurred to any of the people involved. It does kind of kick the idea of 'Paid mods are the best way to ensure creativity' to the ground though, seeing as how these people did it not only completely off their own back, but without any formal tools released by the developers or any expectation of financial renumeration. It's almost as if... doing something awesome for a game you love is a huge reward in and of itself! Especially if other people get to enjoy it too. what the gently caress this is madness!?
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Apr 30, 2015 17:25
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Ddraig posted:I don't think the concept ever occurred to any of the people involved. It does kind of kick the idea of 'Paid mods are the best way to ensure creativity' to the ground though, seeing as how these people did it not only completely off their own back, but without any formal tools released by the developers or any expectation of financial renumeration. It's almost as if... doing something awesome for a game you love is a huge reward in and of itself! Especially if other people get to enjoy it too. I think its clear that many people like to mod for the fun of it, you won't see me arguing against that. Musicians enjoy playing music and many of them put their music out for free, but that doesn't mean they inherently shouldn't be able to do it for profit just because they enjoy the process. Lucid Dream fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Apr 30, 2015 |
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Apr 30, 2015 17:27
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| # ? May 14, 2024 17:57 |
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It's an entirely different thing, though? In every single sense. I'm a Musician (not a particularly good one, I guess, but I've never had any huge complaints) and the music industry is entirely different, to the point where we even have Captains of Industry relentlessly mocking potential candidates in order to find the next big marketable thing made into its own form of entertainment. You very rarely get cases like The Beatles, who did make a loving ton off their music, mainly because they were business savvy and dictated their own terms. The music industry (creative industries in general, really) have changed a lot thanks to the internet. Used to be that the main advantage a "record contract" was going to offer most musicians was a foot in the door to get some exposure where they would gain a following and hopefully be able to coast for the rest of their careers off their fans because live shows and touring were the only real way they were going to make any money. They had to go through the middle man to get to that point, and there are still bands out there that are in relative obscurity that can still pull in respectable crowds and keep going forever because they've still got people who like their music etc, even long after their albums have ceased to be released. This has changed. You don't really need the 'middle man' to be your foot in the door. If you've got talent, you can put yourself out there, and build up a following that way. You will also completely get to dictate the terms of your releases, and all of the money you make goes entirely to you. What Bethesda and Valve tried to do was to make themselves into the 'big record labels' of modding, but without the actual responsibilities that came with it. They wanted the perks of being able to coast off the success of someone else's work but not take on the responsibilities of creative control, standards of quality/professionalism or even promotion, all the while taking a cut that would be comparable to the cuts other industries would take. It's a very, very loving bad deal for modders. If we're still going down the music analogy, it would be the equivalent if Solomon Linda selling the rights of Mbube for 10 shillings.
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Apr 30, 2015 18:56
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