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Let us English posted:He's not saying you should go into academia in the US. That doctorate could get you $50,000 abroad outside of Korea. The problem is that all of the positions I've been seeing have the longer hiring cycle - I need something to do while I'm trying to secure that next, better position. It's not as if the EPIK thing is a 5-year commitment. It's also quite possible that I just suck at looking for jobs.
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Jul 15, 2015 02:50
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CommonShore posted:
Have you considered tech writing? That's where English majors actually make money.
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Jul 15, 2015 03:12
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caberham posted:As someone who is not a teacher or based in Korea I would recommend you to be certified k12. Yes it takes more time but you can get a lot more"real international school" level jobs. The pay scale is pretty much standardized globally and is North of 65k a year living in developing countries with subsidized rent. *not if you're certified in music and ESL
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Jul 15, 2015 03:14
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Are there companies that anyone can recommend that do Panmunjom/JSA tours (halfish day rather than whole day doing the wider DMZ too) ? Not having much luck
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Jul 15, 2015 06:49
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Maxsmart posted:Have you considered tech writing? That's where English majors actually make money. I know a goon who works in Shanghai for Microsoft. They are always hiring for tech writers but unfortunately, dealing with visas is difficult 
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Jul 15, 2015 08:02
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Yeah doing EPIK with a doctorate in English is a terrible idea. You're going to hate yourself. There are plenty of university positions that hire for a year or two at a time, also you can just quit it's not like it's prison.
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Jul 15, 2015 10:24
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caberham posted:I know a goon who works in Shanghai for Microsoft. They are always hiring for tech writers but unfortunately, dealing with visas is difficult And it's about an hour shuttle outside the city and if you are an air baby like me you'll suffocate. I still think about applying, but if I die in Korea, I'll never survive Shanghai.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:04
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Grand Fromage posted:Yeah doing EPIK with a doctorate in English is a terrible idea. You're going to hate yourself. There are plenty of university positions that hire for a year or two at a time, also you can just quit it's not like it's prison. Ok, I just went and combed through a few thousand job postings again, and there's nothing resembling this anywhere - "$50,000," begging for doctorates, university, &c. Are the resources I have just awful and broken? Point me to where these jobs are advertised. Everything I'm seeing is garbage, even next to the EPIK pay package - stuff like ESL teaching, minimum 5 years experience, already have work visa or residency, $1100 USD per month kind of poo poo.
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Jul 15, 2015 16:52
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caberham posted:As someone who is not a teacher or based in Korea I would recommend you to be certified k12. Yes it takes more time but you can get a lot more"real international school" level jobs. The pay scale is pretty much standardized globally and is North of 65k a year living in developing countries with subsidized rent. Two fairs in BKK: ISS Job fair and Search. Trend is going away from fairs though. We negotiate our contracts EARLY this year in September. So the hiring season is more from October to Dec. for experienced teachers. Korea is the only place in Asia I've heard of people getting hired without a teaching certificate. The International schools say differently but they hire plenty without a certificate (work with two in my hallway). Actually, s/he could probably check the schools now. Openings happen over summer.
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Jul 15, 2015 23:09
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CommonShore posted:Ok, I just went and combed through a few thousand job postings again, and there's nothing resembling this anywhere - "$50,000," begging for doctorates, university, &c. Are the resources I have just awful and broken? Point me to where these jobs are advertised. Everything I'm seeing is garbage, even next to the EPIK pay package - stuff like ESL teaching, minimum 5 years experience, already have work visa or residency, $1100 USD per month kind of poo poo. I don't know where you're looking, I haven't heard of job sites that have these posted on them. Facebook groups are the best way to find jobs in Korea, or contacting the universities directly. Four years ago Ulsan University was paying $3000 a month for 10 hours of work per week and two months paid vacation, and my friend with that job just had a bachelor's. Everyone I know with a university job either contacted the uni or heard about the opening via a friend/Facebook. If you're looking at like... I seriously don't know where they'd be posted but Cragislist or something? Those are all the shittiest jobs. With a doctorate Japanese universities are also an option, or Taiwan. With EPIK you're going to spend your days yelling "apple" at seven year olds while your brain, which has no role in your job, thinks about all the years you spent in university to be here. There are almost no jobs other than elementary now, it's literally babysitting. Also in the next few weeks universities are going to get desperate. Korea now requires a master's to work at a university, and there just aren't a lot of people with those. I know a couple people who have gotten uni gigs with a bachelor's because the unis were so desperate they broke the law and hired anyway because classes start next week gently caress gently caress gently caress. I can't imagine that has changed radically in just one year. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 00:48
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Grand Fromage posted:With EPIK you're going to spend your days yelling "apple" at seven year olds while your brain, which has no role in your job, thinks about all the years you spent in university to be here. There are almost no jobs other than elementary now, it's literally babysitting. Man, I don't know why you're so harsh on EPIK. Just for a bit of a view from a different perspective, I have my California State teaching credential in addition to my bachelor's, and I've had an EPIK job teaching 5th and 6th grade for two years now. Yeah, for someone with a doctorate it might not be the best possible job, but the pay and benefits are good and it's quite rewarding. It's anything but babysitting - I plan great lessons and have wonderful student response. I've helped students go from not being able to say the alphabet to being able to ask and answer basic questions. Am I saving the world? No. But I'm definitely doing real teaching and making a real, albeit small, difference. Like most jobs, you get out of it what you put into it. Sure, there are some teachers who party all the time and play bomb games every day and turn their brain off, but there are plenty doing real work. You act as if teaching adults at University is tremendously different. I've taught adults before and you can just as easily babysit them if that's your approach to teaching. Plus, CommonShore admitted he's looking to make some money and experience a different slice of life for a bit. CommonShore - how do you feel about teaching kids? Have you done it before, and if so, did you enjoy it? With EPIK, you'll only be working about 4 hours a day and you'll have another 4 to work on your own personal projects, so it's also really nice in that regard. Whizbang posted:
Nah, hagwon work is the McDonalds of teaching jobs. EPIK is like...a TGI Friday's?
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Jul 16, 2015 01:48
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CommonShore posted:Ok, I just went and combed through a few thousand job postings again, and there's nothing resembling this anywhere - "$50,000," begging for doctorates, university, &c. Are the resources I have just awful and broken? Point me to where these jobs are advertised. Everything I'm seeing is garbage, even next to the EPIK pay package - stuff like ESL teaching, minimum 5 years experience, already have work visa or residency, $1100 USD per month kind of poo poo. Just go on Serious Teachers. There's plenty of jobs in Oman and Abu Dhabi that start around $36k and go up to $50k. EPIK's the best deal you'll find in Korea outside a Uni gig, but if you've got the entire world to choose from, why Korea? I mean Korea's a nice place to live but there are way more exciting, lucrative, and interesting places in the world. dantheman650 posted:Man, I don't know why you're so harsh on EPIK. Just for a bit of a view from a different perspective, I have my California State teaching credential in addition to my bachelor's, and I've had an EPIK job teaching 5th and 6th grade for two years now. Yeah, for someone with a doctorate it might not be the best possible job, but the pay and benefits are good and it's quite rewarding. It's anything but babysitting - I plan great lessons and have wonderful student response. I've helped students go from not being able to say the alphabet to being able to ask and answer basic questions. Am I saving the world? No. But I'm definitely doing real teaching and making a real, albeit small, difference. Like most jobs, you get out of it what you put into it. Sure, there are some teachers who party all the time and play bomb games every day and turn their brain off, but there are plenty doing real work. You act as if teaching adults at University is tremendously different. I've taught adults before and you can just as easily babysit them if that's your approach to teaching. Every school is different, as is every coteacher. If you didn't hit the jackpot with both EPIK is pretty frustrating. dantheman650 posted:Nah, hagwon work is the McDonalds of teaching jobs. EPIK is like...a TGI Friday's? This is a good analogy. Let us English fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 02:01
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Let us English posted:EPIK's the best deal you'll find in Korea outside a Uni gig Second best, after GNET. 
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Jul 16, 2015 02:37
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caberham posted:As someone who is not a teacher or based in Korea I would recommend you to be certified k12. Yes it takes more time but you can get a lot more"real international school" level jobs. The pay scale is pretty much standardized globally and is North of 65k a year living in developing countries with subsidized rent. Definitely something I'd consider, but at a future date. Up until these last few quarters I've been working full-time to keep room and board on top of graduate school so the momentum of things was to not take the additional classes. How I've still kept my GPA high would be a mystery except it's kind of consumed my waking hours. However, on the other side of it- I'm just not interested in teaching kids anymore. I don't know that I want to invest that much additional time and money into something that might fluff my resume just enough for a uni gig that I'm after. I don't want to be stuck in part-time-adjunct-professor-Hell stateside either so that's why I'm looking abroad.
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Jul 16, 2015 03:11
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JimBobDole posted:Two fairs in BKK: ISS Job fair and Search. Trend is going away from fairs though. We negotiate our contracts EARLY this year in September. So the hiring season is more from October to Dec. for experienced teachers. Korea is the only place in Asia I've heard of people getting hired without a teaching certificate. The International schools say differently but they hire plenty without a certificate (work with two in my hallway). I'm just going to quote this. Goons have tendency to sell themselves short. Don't sell yourself short.
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Jul 16, 2015 03:20
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caberham posted:I'm just going to quote this. Goons have tendency to sell themselves short. Don't sell yourself short. Can and will. e. I may be looking at a 2 week business or medical English course in Hong Kong, I figure decent to add to my current credentials. Maxsmart fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 04:42
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CommonShore posted:I actually have a doctorate in English...This EPIK gig seems to me like the fastest-accessible not-a-scam route to a radically different life than the one I've lived for the last 7 years. No offense, but did you hit your head REALLY hard recently? You did not get a doctorate just so that you could be screamed at by a 29-year old who barely graduated teacher's college because she was too busy getting drunk because you made a typo in a Powerpoint. Do not be an EPIK teacher. Do not go to Korea. If you really want to teach, look at the Middle East, but this is not a good place. EDIT: Let me save you all some time- I don't care if you disagree. This is my actual daily life.
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Jul 16, 2015 06:55
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I'll weigh in.... I'm a professor here, with a doctorate, too. The workload and vacation are pretty sweet, true, but you're basically just an adjunct or visiting lecturer unless you really put in your time. There are almost no tenure track esl positions in universities here. That said, you not only have to have at least a masters, but also two years of verifiable university experience to get a university job in the first place. Like someone else mentioned, though, come February 27, most place will hire anyone rather than be sort staffed March 1. I'll try to answer any questions you or anyone else wants to throw at me.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:04
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bringmyfishback posted:you could be screamed at by a 29-year old who barely graduated teacher's college because she was too busy getting drunk Is she hot?
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Jul 16, 2015 07:05
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ladron posted:Is she hot? No, she kind of looks like Rocky Dennis.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:06
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bringmyfishback posted:
I mean, the point I would make is just that: It is your life, and your position is really unfortunate, but you always talk like its universal or the norm for Korea. Honestly, it's not generally that nightmarishly bad. That said, this guy should be able to do better than Epik. Even if he just does public, at least aim for GNET.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:21
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ladron posted:Is she hot? Was going to ask. Even if she's not hot I'm sure she has hot friends
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Jul 16, 2015 07:21
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Actually, the one bit of advice I'd like to give to people looking at Epik is this: Don't take contracts in Ulsan. Everyone who goes there winds up being beyond miserable, for whatever reason.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:26
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Bugblatter posted:Actually, the one bit of advice I'd like to give to people looking at Epik is this: Don't take contracts in Ulsan. Everyone who goes there winds up being beyond miserable, for whatever reason. This is good advice.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:31
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Yeah holy poo poo don't work epik with a doctorate. Start finding and emailing/skyping/whatever universities here. Snag an airbnb and go in person if you can, too. You're an easy sell to places that will actually literally unrelated bachelor holders in crunch time for want of qualified applicants. Then work high end corporate camps/retreats when you're on break and hit 80k without breaking a sweat.
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Jul 16, 2015 07:47
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Bugblatter posted:I mean, the point I would make is just that: It is your life, and your position is really unfortunate, but you always talk like its universal or the norm for Korea. Honestly, it's not generally that nightmarishly bad. I have never denied that and frequently say that I am happy that most people don't end up in situations like mine. However, it doesn't change the facts of my daily life. Nor is my situation that unusual. Almost everyone I know here has at least one insane coteacher, or unforgivably sheisty administrative staff, or particularly bad kids. I've never said it was uniquely Korean, just that it seems like nearly everyone is being abused somehow. Korean teachers included! My point was that if you have a PhD in English, you are wasting your time with EPIK because there are much better opportunities out there, in more interesting places, to boot. And GF loved Ulsan, so I'm just some kind of freak. Fleta Mcgurn fucked around with this message at 07:55 on Jul 16, 2015 |
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Jul 16, 2015 07:52
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My ex was from Ulsan and she was a crazy bitch, so maybe GF was the fluke.
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Jul 16, 2015 09:25
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People posting about their situation like its the only way it goes here isn't as fun when it doesnt contain casual (or overt) racism
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Jul 16, 2015 10:19
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Arctic Baldwin posted:People posting about their situation like its the only way it goes here isn't as fun when it doesnt contain casual (or overt) racism My coteacher made loud yelping noises today in order to drown out my goodbye speech to the fourth graders loving JEWS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There ya go!
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Jul 16, 2015 11:00
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Arctic Baldwin posted:People posting about their situation like its the only way it goes here isn't as fun when it doesnt contain casual (or overt) racism My life is wonderful. Please get out of Asia ^_^ Wait wait. Korea is beautiful Chinese colony
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Jul 16, 2015 12:04
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GF was consistently the absolute most miserable person in chat while he was in Ulsan, and he had nightmare jobs. Are we posting from alternate universes?
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Jul 16, 2015 15:07
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I like Ulsan and most people I know there do too. I wouldn't have traded it for another city, as much as I like Seoul. Jobs all sucked though that's true.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:20
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Okay I'm modifying my theory to be that Ulsan jobs will make you miserable. Advice still stands.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:36
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The good/poo poo job ratio in Ulsan was the same as anyone I knew from anywhere in Korea. There are a lot of lovely schools. If you don't like little kids you're mostly hosed nowadays. You have a higher chance of being able to find a non-elementary job in rural areas, in the big cities it's a near zero chance. Probably zero with EPIK, you'd have to find the schools and apply directly. And having a terrible job is bad for general quality of life. It is entirely possible to get a good job and have a good time in Korea. Other than my job and garlic bread with sugar on it I liked Korea a lot and miss it. I still think that even a good EPIK post is a huge waste of time and opportunity for someone with a doctorate.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:43
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I knew a guy who was pretty happy with his engineering job in Ulsan. So I guess it's just Ulsan English teaching jobs that make you unhappy.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:43
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Jeoh posted:I knew a guy who was pretty happy with his engineering job in Ulsan. So I guess it's just Ulsan English teaching jobs that make you unhappy. Well how could you not. As an engineer you: A) frequently do literally nothing since you're a supervisor and the Koreans are doing the actual work, you're just making sure they don't gently caress it up B) get paid $8000 a month with a free mansion apartment and car, and you can also possibly swing bonus hazard WAR ZONE pay if you pretend to be afraid of NK C) ball hard
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Jul 16, 2015 15:44
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Grand Fromage posted:Well how could you not. As an engineer you: Heh maybe if you had a real job you'd enjoy those benefits too
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Jul 16, 2015 15:46
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One of my engineer friends literally had a room in his apartment that was just empty because he had nothing to put in it, and said room was larger than my entire apartment. He had two ovens, two fridges, and a Jacuzzi room. He had a loving walk-in 신발장 that was larger than that tiny apartment Dontaskkant used to have.
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Jul 16, 2015 15:48
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I'd rather avoid getting into any  about why I'm an idiot for making the decision I've made. I personally know eight or nine people who have done EPIK, some of them many times over, and most of them are also grad school types. I'm close enough to some of these folk that they would speak up if they thought I was doing something boneheaded and misery-inducing. They're not saying anything remotely like what I'm seeing in this thread. If you're having a bad time, my condolences.I've been combing through ads on international job boards, academic job boards, and places like Dave's ESL Cafe (which site I find disappointing). Good to know that the universities don't actually advertise the jobs in any of these places that I'd expect to see them. I have a Korean friend-of-a-friend who knows more about that, so I'll push through that channel a bit more. Yes, I hit my head hard recently, but I had applied for EPIK before that. I'm avoiding the Middle East, the Gulf especially, for political and climate reasons. I like being outside, and I'm pretty sure that it would take me five minutes to die in that kind of sun. I find it pretty depressing when I see a vertical list of "Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Emirates" positions, but that's how it goes. A good friend of mine is doing one of the Kuwaiti university jobs right now, and that looks like a nightmare of direct sunlight and authoritarian government to me. I don't care if it pays 3x as much as EPIK - it's not worth it to me. I've been looking at positions worldwide outside of that. I had an on-campus interview for a tenure-track job pretty far north in Canada this spring, and I didn't get it. I've also been watching Nunavut/NWT postings but nothing in my wheelhouse has opened up. EPIK was always the backup plan if none of these other trees bore fruit. I absolutely 100% know that I'll be working with kids, and I actually already volunteer time to work with kids now and then. My general plan is to do a year of EPIK to get some super low-effort cash working with kids instead beating my head against the wall for entitled teenagers at a Canadian university. I don't care if I have to work in someone else's classroom. I've been a TA 10x and I know how to let someone else drive. If I'm liking Korea/Asia generally, I'll then begin to hunt for one of these better, university positions for year two, ideally teaching English as literature instead of (or at least alongside) ESL.
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Jul 16, 2015 16:03
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I don't think you're an idiot, I just don't understand why someone qualified for the top rungs of the ladder would want to work at the bottom but it's your call. Hong Kong public schools are also worth a look. HK is awesome and pays a lot better. Dave's ESL is the kind of place we're talking about that only posts lovely jobs.
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Jul 16, 2015 16:08
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