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I think we need fiscal responsibility and tight belts. it's about time america growed up. We need to get serious about budget slippage and about government waste. Quoth the raven, "Vouchers," and I knew in my heart-of-hearts that blessed bird was right!
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May 5, 2015 01:49
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Foma posted:A higher minimum wage means less people will be employed.  less demand for inferior/discount goods might adversely affect dollar stores but that's okay because those stores only exist because of free trade agreements that make it profitable to ship products of foreign labor here
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May 5, 2015 02:01
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Ervin K posted:Now that I recently finished my education I'm making around $14 an hour, and the idea that some teenager can get a zero-skill job and start getting paid more than I did after years of studying is absurd. If you want to get paid more, go to school, get promoted, or get a job with hazard pay. Otherwise, consume less. 
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May 5, 2015 02:41
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when minimum wage rises, then a few things can happen to higher paying skilled labor positions 1. skilled professions that compete with unskilled professions in the labor market have to raise their wages so that it's worth it for skilled workers 2. costs of training have to go down or be subsidized so the labor demand can be met in that field 3. if the job's not socially necessary and not profitable anymore, then society switches to more efficient alternatives for that skilled job It's not like "oh minimum wage rose! now I'm poorer than fast food workers forever!" Like if it was then with all the minwage raises in the past, you would have seen the complete disappearance of skilled jobs. The only other reason for that rationale is that you're mad that you spent a sunk cost that you were promised would ensure a secure position when nothing is guaranteed in the free market, and would bring harm to others so that you don't feel as bad about it.
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May 5, 2015 02:58
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icantfindaname posted:No, communists was popular control of the means of production. But yes, this is a half measure that really nobody on the left except for people who've lowered their expectations after years of political failure wants Plus if you're a marxist then it's accelerationist too, because das kapital goes into depth about how, despite whining about labor laws, larger capitalists have always been able to adjust with ease to regulations. And in the long run regulations lead to A>the concentration of capital into fewer hands as smaller capitalists are unable to compete and B> replacing more of variable capital (workers) with fixed capital (machines). Once that happens, then you try to socialize the gains from converting the workforce to machinery that the fewer private owners are getting, either through Keynesian social democratic measures that allow capitalists to remain in charge, or forceful expropriation (revolutionary socialism or what's politically referred to when people talk about communist parties) that puts that concentrated capital into public hands
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May 5, 2015 03:11
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Ervin K posted:Keep projecting if it makes you feel better. Ervin K posted:This is a total coincidence, but i used to live in suburban Ohio. Me too. Did you notice that the janitors, or restaurant workers, or food court workers, or warehouse workers, or anyone else in everyday interactions that help society run, were actual people when you interacted with them? Did you notice those positions weren't all filled with teenagers/young adults that you knew from school, and so had to come from some other background? Rodatose fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 03:22
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Typo posted:If you want to have a minimum wage debate D&D is possibly the worst place to have it, because there is too much of an emotional attachment to the minimum wage as a policy (rather than as a principle) that opposing it basically makes you what an apostate is to a true believer. Okay, let me try be logically principled about this. To oppose a living wage - a wage that has kept up with inflation and allows one to purchase the necessities of life for them and theirs - is to say that some people should not be allowed to stay alive. That is to say, they would do harm to the human body by cutting off some part of it on the rationale that the sacrifice is necessary for the gain of a smaller section of society they belong to. This is antisocial behavior - behavior directed against the majority of society. Those who oppose a living wage argue that raising the minimum wage would result in higher unemployment - that is, some people would not be able to earn that living wage anyway. Let's disregard whether or not that last point is true (I would point to how it isn't, but that isn't part of this thought exercise). Here we have two outcomes: if wages remain stagnant, some people will not be able to earn a living wage. If minwages are raised, some people will not be able to earn a living wage. Some people will die anyway no matter what in their scenario! So, why should we not weed out those who vocally advocate antisocial behavior - that is, those who advocate doing harm to the human body for the sake of the few and letting the many suffer? If we do that, then the labor surplus they say would be created would be fixed, and those who remain in accord with the human body would enjoy the higher minimum wage with less social conflict enacted by the class of people who do harm to the many for their own private gain. This benefits the most people overall. 584 friedman units obtained. Level up! You gre wto level 34!
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May 5, 2015 03:48
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Look if you don't like it when someone advocates purges for pragmatic social gains, maybe you're being a little emotional?
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May 5, 2015 03:51
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Badger of Basra posted:Kill all whites. See, if I were to be emotional, I would resist this. But my pragmatic side says that, perhaps it would be good if the white man were allowed to disappear from the earth and I will even volunteer for this cause if I were allowed to join in the fun, enlisted as a member of the White Suicide Squad that does the missions no one else will do, like jumping cars off ramps into White Country Club Rallies, or infiltrating the heavily guarded Whitesphere (where the white agenda is set)
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May 5, 2015 03:57
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Typo posted:I actually don't think it is. there's a transition stage you have to worry about- of people's well-being in the present day, before completely communal infrastructures with socialized benefits have been put into place and practice. you don't just Sim Sala Bim up a utopia by saying "we're going to do this."
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May 5, 2015 04:00
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rudatron posted:What? Someone's noticed the real reason behind raising the minimum wage? *throws illuminati hat to the ground* Dammit, now I'll never shut down those honest mom and pop stores. In Capital, the reason given is improving quality of life. There's an indirect effect that smaller shops (where conditions are worse) who could only compete with larger ones by cutting on costs that would benefit laborers' wellbeing, are harmed by having to do things like "provide safety measures." https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm quote:What could possibly show better the character of the capitalist mode of production, than the necessity that exists for forcing upon it, by Acts of Parliament, the simplest appliances for maintaining cleanliness and health? In the potteries the Factory Act of 1864 “has whitewashed and cleansed upwards of 200 workshops, after a period of abstinence from any such cleaning, in many cases of 20 years, and in some, entirely,” (this is the “abstinence” of the capitalist!) “in which were employed 27,800 artisans, hitherto breathing through protracted days and often nights of labour, a mephitic atmosphere, and which rendered an otherwise comparatively innocuous occupation, pregnant with disease and death. The Act has improved the ventilation very much.” [214] In economically-undeveloped areas where there are only a few smaller producers that compete in commodity production with larger production in regional or world markets, this can mean the Only Shop In Town in some rural nowheresville has to shut up shop (rightly so, because they use tainted beef or because they don't care about worker injuries). That lost production is absorbed by larger firms in locations better situated on regional logistics chains. The reason why a producer would choose to set up shop in some rural nowheresville instead of a city (close to its outlets of distribution and with a ready consumer base) is because then they can exercise a local monopoly over hiring and take advantage of the desperation of the local population to pay at such a low rate that it makes up for extra shipping costs. If there's a national minimum wage, why would they bother with that when they'd be paying the same amount for labor in well-connected urban areas? That might explain why rural areas vote Republican, and why say West Virginians would continue to hold anti-regulatory attitudes even after hundreds of thousands of people were affected by chemicals leaking into their water supply from industrial neglegence and not being able to drink water. Far from the liberal mantra of "they're voting against their own interests": they know their interests, and that's that they want to eat. They know that they live precariously, in a place where a few employers hold them hostage. It's either bad local working conditions or none at all, and they aren't organized enough/have enough saved up to stand through a few months being starved out while they protest for better conditions. Such a shift would be regional, not national. Also, it draws on older theory which might not apply in newer, more liberalized late capitalist economic environments. Rodatose fucked around with this message at 05:32 on May 5, 2015 |
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May 5, 2015 05:28
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Effectronica posted:Maybe we can find this middle ground by destroying the inferior white race. A reply to this and also the "fix the left" thread: one way we can augment the comintern is by tweeking the dialogue surrounding awareness-raising from one that has connotations of guilt that can leave people stymied over how they should react ("check your privilege") to an encouraging one that suggests positive action ("know your advantages... and use them for good in ways other people can't!!!") An example of this would be my earlier post itt: Rodatose posted:See, if I were to be emotional, I would resist this. But my pragmatic side says that, perhaps it would be good if the white man were allowed to disappear from the earth and I will even volunteer for this cause if I were allowed to join in the fun, enlisted as a member of the White Suicide Squad that does the missions no one else will do, like jumping cars off ramps into White Country Club Rallies, or infiltrating the heavily guarded Whitesphere (where the white agenda is set) Here, we see that there are some situations where white race traitors of the left have the advantage over the leftists of pure asiatic descent* in that they can act as agent provocateurs in the ranks of the right white loyalists, who initially suspect racial minorities but implicitly trust whites whether they uphold the yakubian ideal or not. I also am a wild driver, who can jump car off ramp, which is something other people do not have the luck to be knowing of *to those who don't know, the Yakub history holds that africans are of asiatic descent; I don't know what it says about latino, pacific islander or first nation peoples
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May 7, 2015 02:49
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I was surprised that big time tv censors allowed the makers of the teenage mutant ninja turtles to show portrayals of the Technodrome, because that's uncannily close to what the Whitesphere looks like
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May 7, 2015 02:51
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Why didn't you pay for your college by posting with pay-per-post rates like these
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May 7, 2015 02:57
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JeffersonClay posted:Economic growth that results in moderate inflation is a net positive for people who are in the labor force, but not for people who aren't. It's not that inflation is a horrible evil that must be defeated at all costs, it's an inevitable byproduct of economic growth that can also be caused by other policies. Deflation would imply economic contraction -- a depression -- which would not be good for most people but which might be good for people on a fixed income. The other part of the inflation/deflation issue, and the huge reason why rich people decry inflation (and might even like it when the economy contracts, so long as their investments are safe) is that people who receive their living not through labor but through capital gains/dividends or other investment, or withdraw from stores of previously saved wealth will be receiving less in real terms. If the interest rate on ~my investment portfolio~ of 6% yearly is offset by 7% yearly inflation, then that amounts to a 1% real loss. Which is a good thing because rich people are entitled welfare cases who want to get paid for doing nothing, and shouldn't be paid for doing nothing.
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May 9, 2015 19:14
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Series DD Funding posted:Which is why it benefits rich people who leveraged their money into productive businesses. and hurts rich people who leveraged their money into nonproductive financial instruments and practice usury or landlordism
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May 9, 2015 22:31
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asdf32 posted:Owning long term fixed income securities is a bummer if inflation ticks up but stocks and real estate track inflation. http://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/052913/inflations-impact-stock-returns.asp quote:Since the 1930s, the research suggests that almost every country suffered the worst real returns during high inflation periods. When examining S&P 500 returns by decade and adjusted for inflation, the results show that the highest real returns occur when inflation is 2 to 3%. For landlords, ability to raise rents to match inflation only works if the renting class sees higher wages and is able to pay the owner's higher rents. In cases where economic growth isn't received by everyone, then rents have to stay flat or you have to go through the expense of eviction and turnover for those who can't pay the rent. And the other sections of the owning class (those investors in productive businesses) individually fight against the lower classes receiving the benefits of growth through higher wages, because their primary focus is trying to minimize production costs to outcompete other individual owners and not get swallowed up. Also for real estate to retain its value and keep up with inflation, some sort of maintenance has to be put into it to (which is productive) to justify the higher costs. And inflation means higher prices in maintenance costs. Rodatose fucked around with this message at 23:15 on May 9, 2015 |
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May 9, 2015 23:09
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asdf32 posted:But inflation is literally the increase in the price of stuff. e: If this what you say, then I say not all stuff happen sameway. Some price good in bad, some bad in good. Some stuff not actually stuff, but price tied to the bank with value-tracking commodity matched against the real stuff in the goods basket of the cpi. Like golds. Like silvers. Like the moneys. Rodatose fucked around with this message at 00:24 on May 10, 2015 |
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May 10, 2015 00:13
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THIS MINIMUM WAGE IS CAUSING ME MAXIMUM RAGE!!!!
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May 11, 2015 01:03
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JeffersonClay posted:People that think the business cycle can be affected with monetary policy: Mainstream economists. People that dispute this: Marxists and Paulites. Lolz end the fed am I rite? quote:You know what would really put a dent in income inequality? A massive depression. By avoiding massive depressions, the Fed does allow income inequality to expand. Do you think the poor would benefit more if these depressions were allowed to occur? Rodatose fucked around with this message at 02:22 on May 11, 2015 |
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May 11, 2015 02:20
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euphronius posted:We can kill the rich and improve our economy. I don't approve of killing, partly because it's bad publicity and all of the not-dead-yet rich people will probably get defensive and raise mercenary contractor armies (which would be a big hassle imo). Let's just retire them in luxurious resorts paid for and maintained by 1% of the total wealth confiscated from them and use the other 99% to do things that benefit society
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May 11, 2015 02:25
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euphronius posted:No. If left alive they will no doubt orchestrate another capitalist democracy. there is no escape from The Resort.
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May 11, 2015 02:29
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JeffersonClay posted:No, Fed policy didn't prevent the recession. Fed policy stopped the recession from becoming a massive, full blown depression. Had it been a full blown depression, income equality would have risen, as everybody would have been hosed but the rich most of all. Do you think that would be good policy? Policies could have been implemented in exchange for terms preventing the recession from becoming a depression by punishing the banks for their malfeasance by making more demands or in an extreme case (as Iceland did with its crisis) nationalizing them. New-deal like policies could have been sought which redistributed wealth more equally by directing recovery funds toward more locally-targeted programs. Instead, the policies sought were a full capitulation, buying into the narrative that "this is all too complicated for you plebs, now give us more money."
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May 11, 2015 02:54
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Effectronica posted:People with substantial wealth are hurt much more by economic downturns than those with little or no wealth. That's just logic. Regulatory capture is something that market logic is blind to.
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May 11, 2015 02:58
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moller posted:What about their kids? And do children of a resort resident and a non-resort resident stay on the resort or get shuffled to genpop? I'd like to make this work, I've already set up the wiki. We're running a retirement resort, not a baby factory. If someone wants to make new kids, They Must Choose. The wealth of your past, or the hope of your future? Only you can make the decision. Leave behind all you believe you are entitled to and be allowed a new start in genpop, or stay in this purgatory. This goes for the kids as well, which is great for giving me the protagonist of my YA novel about it. It's a metaphor for realizing the need to give up the superficially alluring but ultimately unsatisfying petty comforts of your youth in order to mature into a self-actualized adult in this big wide world
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May 11, 2015 08:10
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VitalSigns posted:I would obviously support the Give Money To Random Black People Act of 2015, but somehow I suspect that's a lot less likely to get through this congress than the minimum wage. Just a hunch. Reparations! *bangs fist on table* REPARATIONS! *bangs fist on table* REPARATIONS!!! *disappears into wisp of smoke*
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May 11, 2015 17:53
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Asking for honest good goonpinions here: should I invest in burger futures? The price is set to go up.
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May 12, 2015 02:09
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it's gonna supersize.
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May 12, 2015 02:31
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Blue Raider posted:more like some jobs require speciality, or experience, or ability and shouldnt be lumped in regarding compensation with such as fry cooks aren't you a trucking company middle-manager? you know, someone who speaks into a headset to answer drivers and get them on their way as fast as possible for 8 hours a day for a living much as a drive thru fry-cook does?
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May 13, 2015 00:57
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Blue Raider posted:lol no im over the guy thats over those cats so you're a manager, and you don't like minimum wage increases thanks for your contribution
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May 13, 2015 01:01
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ElCondemn posted:The trucking/freight industry is only growing due to automation also free trade agreements. once TPP goes through expect a lot more cheap goods from pacfic islands to end up in containers and then shipped from ports via cheap truckfreight Rodatose fucked around with this message at 01:20 on May 13, 2015 |
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May 13, 2015 01:17
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oh wow senate democrats fillibustered the TPP a few hours ago
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May 13, 2015 01:20
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Blue Raider posted:let me know when they automate stewardesses "you're in a johnny cab" - johnny cab
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May 13, 2015 01:30
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Mo_Steel posted:Agreed, give funding to USPS. usps trucks are often just the last point in the chain. It takes a lot of routing transfers to get packages from shipping point to delivery. And they use lots o contractors. Of course things could probably be a lot smoother if it were all coordinated under one single logistics chain with all drivers on the same board instead of the free-for-all hell that the 1980 deregulation of the trucking industry ushered in. A lot fewer empty miles for drivers, fewer transfers for the packages, so on
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May 13, 2015 05:34
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