Let's Play Ocarina of Time Super Wrong

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liquidypoo: Aug 23, 2006; Chew on that... you overgrown son of a bitch.

Admiral H. Curtiss posted:

FYI if you want this LP archived on http://lparchive.org/ you should send baldurk a message. I'd recommend it!

Thirding that you definitely want to do this.

I do have a disclaimer though: baldurk is a super busy dude and it might take weeks/months for your LP to get archived. I sent out my tiny little LP for archival back in early May and it's not up yet, for example.

# ? Jul 2, 2015 01:25

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# ? May 21, 2024 13:27

Crosspeice: Aug 9, 2013

He moved countries and stopped around October, but is now back up and is more or less at March. At least this way you can send an email for your next lp when your finished one goes up.

# ? Jul 2, 2015 01:30

Doc Fission: Sep 11, 2011

This was a highly enjoyable and fun LP! It was great seeing one of my favorite childhood games get broken in a million ways. That ending was totally nutty too.

Thanks for your prompt updates and hard work, this was a great run.

# ? Jul 2, 2015 03:22

frozentreasure: Nov 13, 2012; ~

I can't tell whether your current avatar would be better than one without the medallion, saying "I never had the fire medallion! Using movie magic I tricked everyone!"

frozentreasure fucked around with this message at 05:08 on Jul 2, 2015

# ? Jul 2, 2015 05:05

Ryushikaze: Mar 5, 2013

frozentreasure posted:

I can't tell whether your current avatar would be better than one without the medallion, saying "I never had the fire medallion! Using movie magic I tricked everyone!"

It'd work better with the current avatar image and that text, I think.

# ? Jul 2, 2015 05:16

Fredrik1: Jan 22, 2005; Gopherslayer; Fallen Rib

DoctorKill posted:

We did it everyone, everything is all right, the struggle is finished. We have won victory over ourselves. We love Ganondorf wait no hold on

Link's Awakening

Final episode! In this episode we go through Ganon's Castle, me and Artix at the helm. I decided to do it a bit differently than the rest of the LP: rather than doing it as a child since for various reasons that was not feasible, I actually load up a different file to show off how to do the trials with as little equipment as possible, though I make some concessions. After that we go ahead and finish up the game, and we finish it up right, by finishing it up wrong.

Anyway, this was really fun! Thanks to all my co-commentators for lending me your voices, I promise I definitely wont use your voice samples to steal your banking information. I want to formally apologize to all of you, since after editing all that audio I realized just how much I didn't shut the hell up and talked over you guys. Sorry! I hope I wasn't too rude.

Thanks for watching everyone, hope you had fun.

This is amazing, thanks again for doing this!

Fredrik1 posted:

So I spoke to DoctorKill a little while ago about making a video showing some of the glitches that were fixed in the later versions of the game, 1.2 in particular.

I thought it might be cool to show of a Ganonless speedrun as it is not a very well known run, not very many are playing it, but it's still a pretty fun and short route that relies heavily on glitch abuse to get to the end of the game.

So here is part one of two in:
Ocarina of time is a game about a boy who just wants to party with Paul.Power helping me with commentary.

If you are only interested in the exclusive glitch in this part of the run you can skip to 07:30 and I'll show of a thing called blank A it's kind of neat.

The second part is recorded but I need to get some commentary on it.

After being sick for more than a week we finally got around to record the second and last part of another (better?) way to complete the game.

In this episode we complete our quest, and save a few gorons in the process

Again Paul Power is helping me with some excellent commentary.

Fredrik1 fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jul 2, 2015

# ? Jul 2, 2015 09:50

Zeniel: Oct 18, 2013

I don't suppose you do this sort of this with other games by any chance? It was really entertaining and I'd love to see you break more!

# ? Jul 2, 2015 13:04

cigaw: Sep 13, 2012

I've been following the LP (but not the thread), so apologies if this's been posted before. Check this vid out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaIH9iu3yac, which is the current OOT speedrun record, which is impressive, sad and hilarious all at once. 17 minutes and 47 seconds. Try to not let the button mashing drive you insane before the tears start.

DoctorKill, I've thoroughly enjoyed your LP! I had no idea any of the crap you pulled was possible. :stare:

# ? Jul 2, 2015 20:05

Xenoveritas: May 9, 2010; Dinosaur Gum

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I do find myself wondering which Kokiri Forest Link would've found himself in had he exited his treehouse -- the child version, or the adult version? More generally, how difficult is it to get Adult Link into Child Link areas that aren't dungeons?

I would assume the adult version and "basically impossible without cheating."

If you check out Suspicious Dish's map viewer you'll note that very few maps have special adult versions. In fact, it's limited to basically just Hyrule Castle and Hyrule Village.

Every other map is basically identical. However, Dish's viewer doesn't render actors, so in that above link you'll notice that the incomplete house is missing entirely.

This is because the difference between the child and adult versions are basically just which actors are loaded and what they do. So the house that's being built/was built is missing from the map viewer because it's really an actor and is loaded into the map depending on whether you're a child or an adult.

So this means that is would presumably be very difficult to glitch adult Link into child Link's Kakariko.

I'm assuming - although I don't really know - that there's a single flag that indicates if you're a child or adult. Presumably you may be able to flip that flag prior to loading a new zone and then flip it back so that you wind up in a child's version of the map as an adult (or vice versa) which means it may be possible to get the "wrong Link" into a given version of the map.

# ? Jul 2, 2015 22:32

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

I was probated and unable to say until now that the final episode was quite good, very good.

# ? Jul 2, 2015 22:49

DoctorKill: Jul 23, 2013; W H A T H A V E Y O U D O N E T O M Y B E A U T I F U L M O O N

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

I do find myself wondering which Kokiri Forest Link would've found himself in had he exited his treehouse -- the child version, or the adult version? More generally, how difficult is it to get Adult Link into Child Link areas that aren't dungeons?

Xenoveritas posted:

I would assume the adult version and "basically impossible without cheating."

Yeah this is correct, if I walked out it would be adult forest. Most maps have adult / child versions that will only load if you are that version, and you can't trick the game into thinking you are the wrong version without cheats. Hyrule Castle and the Market are different, Dish has mentioned that at some point, and because of that you CAN in some cases get into the wrong version.

The only definite instance I know of this is getting into child Hyrule Castle as adult, here's a video of it, done by a pretty cool speedrunner. I'm not sure if you can get into Adult Castle courtyard as child, or in the wrong version of the markets. But other maps don't work this way, you could see that when I warped into the Epona's Song cutscene, once the cutscene finished it put me back in the adult Lon Lon Ranch. I did end up in some kind of 'child' version of the Sacred Forest Meadow after I got Saria's Song, but that map doesn't seem to be the 'real' map, since it doesn't act the same way. It might not have an adult scene.

# ? Jul 3, 2015 01:10

Koobes: Nov 6, 2012

If I remember right, can't you wrong warp to the graveyard as adult and get additional heart pieces to spawn?

# ? Jul 3, 2015 02:21

tiistai: Nov 1, 2012; Solo Melodica

The 38th heart piece in the graveyard isn't so much "spawned" as it simply belongs to a different scene setup that you're normally never supposed to actually enter because it went unused. Basically it's just a leftover, kind of like with the child version of Gerudo's Fortress except considerably more difficult to access.

# ? Jul 4, 2015 18:41

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

That was quite the end to a fantastic LP, thanks for showing this game off in a totally unique way!

What was the point of putting Farore's Wind at the top of Ganon's Tower? I was hoping you'd warp out of the Fire Temple back to that spot and guillotine Ganon from a hundred feet in the air for the final blow :black101:

# ? Jul 5, 2015 05:58

strap on revenge: Apr 8, 2011; that's my thing that i say

pretty sure the farore's wind was necessary to create the wrong warp to the waking up cutscene

# ? Jul 5, 2015 06:44

TheDarkFlame: May 4, 2013; You tell me I didn't build that?

I'll have you know I worked my fingers to the bone to get where I am today.

Joining the chorus to say holy hell, what did you do to this game? And more importantly, what did this game do to you to deserve all this?

# ? Jul 5, 2015 21:59

DoctorKill: Jul 23, 2013; W H A T H A V E Y O U D O N E T O M Y B E A U T I F U L M O O N

C-Euro posted:

What was the point of putting Farore's Wind at the top of Ganon's Tower?

strap on revenge posted:

pretty sure the farore's wind was necessary to create the wrong warp to the waking up cutscene

Yeah, the entrance from Ganondorf to the tower collapse will warp you into that cutscene if you use the fire temple warp. Hopefully I've explained well enough why wrong warps happen, but I think some people might wonder why you warp to the particular locations you warp to. It has something to do with the Entrance Table, an indexed list of all the entrances in the game. An entrance is a spot where you start on a map, from a previous map. So the entrance to Dodongo's Cavern would be

code:

Dodongo's Cavern        FROM Death Mountain Trail

Each entrance has 4 indices, for child day/night and adult day/night, but these aren't really used, except for the market and the castle. So here is a simplified version of the entrances. That page also does explain what I'm about to explain.

Basically, when I warp I change the base location, and the base location modifier that Dodongo's Cavern (DC), Deku Tree, and Fire Temple has will shift me into the next location. So looking at a warp I showed off, when I died in DC, my base location was set to the entrance to DC from death mountain trail, since that's where the game sets you whenever you die in there. If we look at the entrance table:

code:

Index	Scene			Entrance

0004	Dodongo's Cavern	From Death Mountain Trail
0008	Gerudo Training Grounds	From Gerudo Fortress

The entrance to Gerudo Training Grounds is indexed right after DC (from the trail). This is why it warps you to the training grounds if you die in DC. Not sure why it's located there but it is.

This is also why the warp to Deku Tree goes to Ganon's Tower. The boss rooms in all the dungeons are separate maps, and the entrances to and from them are not sequential or anything. So if we look at the entrance FROM the boss room TO the deku tree (since I use that location by walking through the door):

code:

Index	Scene			Entrance

0252	Deku Tree		From Deku Tree Boss
0256	Tower Collapse Interior	Burning Rocks Tower Collapse Exterior Lower

So you end up in a particular section of the tower collapse. From there, walking out of it goes to the outside section of tower collapse, which will trigger the cutscene. From there you can do the tower collapse normally, or cheat to the end.

Another interesting one is the Eyeball Frog. Using the eyeball frog in a blue warp sets the base location to the entrance of the eyeball frog timer timeout, where it sets you back to in front of King Zora. Looking at the index:

code:

Index	Scene			Entrance

0153	Zora's Domain		Eyeball Frog Timeout
0157	Lon Lon Ranch		From Hyrule Field

The index right after the frog timeout location is Lon Lon Ranch, which is where I ended up when I showed it off. However this is where it gets a little more complicated. A wrong warp actually tries to put you into a cutscene every time, it's just that many locations don't have valid cutscenes to load, and in that circumstance it just loads you in the map without a cutscene (or crashes). But the way I understand it, some maps / scenes have a list of cutscenes to run and the warp will shift into those if it can find some. This is why I ended up in part of the Epona's Song cutscene when I warped into Lon Lon Ranch.

But this is also why in Fredrik1's video the Fire Temple warped him into the credits! The Fire Temple shifts to a slightly different index and cutscene, so while the eyeball frog still warped him into Lon Lon, it loaded a different cutscene, in this case the cutscene of the party they have in Lon Lon in the credits. That's just how the game does those credits scenes, they are 'located' in the maps they take place in. If we look at the very last wrong warp I did:

code:

Index	Scene			 Entrance

043F	Tower Collapse Exterior	 Death Cutscene from Ganondorf Boss Room
0443	Kokiri Forest		 From Mido's House

I warped into Kokiri Forest, and the cutscene it happened to load was the Deku Tree / Navi cutscene. But this is also why the Deku Tree was unloaded! The section of the map that was loaded was the main section of it since it was from Mido's House. This is also where Link was standing when Navi panned over the map (I actually just figured out that's why he was standing there). It's all coming together!

Now I've never seen a list of cutscenes and I don't know how the game handles that exactly so I can't really pin point where any given location would take you or how to potentially access any cutscene. While you can check where you'd end up I don't know if people have a table or something that would show what cutscene would load. I have a bookmarked list of entrances and where they'd end up if you used them to wrong warp but I think a lot of that was personally tested by someone. Not sure though.

But the entrance table does help show why at least you end up in whatever map you end up in. There's a lot of wrong warps I never showed off and this explains why they work. If you die in fire temple you warp to forest temple, since that's indexed right after the fire temple entrance. If you manage to go from the fire boss room to the fire temple (which you can do but it's tough) it's another way into the tower collapse. If you're base location is DC to the boss room, you'd warp to Gohma's room. If you're base location is Gohma's room (from Deku Tree) you'd warp to Bongo's room (you can do this one the same way I did Epona's song, you'd just overwrite the eyeball frog with a bottle).

That's a lot of words but it's honestly something I didn't understand for a while. For a long time I understood how to trigger the warps but not why you ended up where you did, since the speedrun routes are pretty standardized making it unnecessary to know about any other warp possibilities. But seeing where you can end up is pretty cool, hopefully I explained it well enough to you guys. If I got something wrong I'm sure Suspicious Dish can set things right, we're all counting on you Dish.

# ? Jul 5, 2015 23:45

DoctorKill: Jul 23, 2013; W H A T H A V E Y O U D O N E T O M Y B E A U T I F U L M O O N

I've got some news! Hopefully there's still some people following the thread. I've decided that I will in fact do an LP of Majora's Mask as well, with a similar theme, but I wanted to get some input before I really got into it.

So the general structure of Majora's Mask, both the programming and the actual game design aspects of it, means I don't really have an easy definition for 'wrong' like I did for Ocarina of Time. Using the adult/child dichotomy and switching the roles made for an obviously 'incorrect'' method of play. Not only does MM have more forms to be, but it's designed around using them everywhere, so you can't really be the wrong form. They also have much bigger differences in their capabilities making forms absolutely necessary at some parts. In general, there are also less big glitches like RBA and Wrong Warping to show off, and the ones that exist are less useful and more tedious to set up.

That's not to say there isn't still a lot of cool stuff! There are definitely some really neat tricks to show off, it's just that I don't know if it will be as consistently glitchy as OoT was. To that extent I wanted some feedback on what you guys might want to see, if you can think of anything. That's a bit vague, but basically I'm just looking for other things I can possibly do to make the LP more interesting. I have a base route planned with all the dungeons and all the masks (most of which you can't really glitch to get or anything like that), but I'd be happy to modify it if someone has some cool ideas for something.

I'm also looking for co-commentators! I definitely had fun with that, and maybe some people who missed out on OoT can help me here. I'm not sure exactly when I'll get this going, but if I wait longer I can possibly get a good mic, maybe in a couple of weeks. I just don't know how necessary that is, if the mic I was using is fine I can just keep using that and start sooner.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 02:58

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Oh, sweet! I like Majora's Mask much more than OoT (no offense to OoT), so I'll be looking forward to this.

As far as things to show off are concerned, I guess just generally trying to subvert intended sequences as much as possible. Getting into the ranch without the powder keg, doing Ikana before Great Bay Temple, etc. The game has a fairly large set of "you must do A before you can do B" arrangements, and I'm sure with clever thinking many if not most of them can be broken.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 03:02

bawk: Mar 31, 2013

Stop time as often as possible. Time limit? What time limit? That's not in this game :downs:

# ? Jul 16, 2015 03:04

Crosspeice: Aug 9, 2013

Yaaaaaaaay, more screwing with Zelda. :neckbeard:

What the 3 day Majora's Mask thread is showing is just how back and forth a lot of the game is and that there's a lot of freedom in how you complete areas if you only go into the dungeon to get the item, then just ignore the boss and just do another area instead, so maybe just do as much wacky stuff as you can before going through time, or something. I'm not too sure what crazy stuff you can do, what kind of options do you have? I'd be happy to be a part of it again, since that thread made me really driven to go through the game, so it's very fresh in my mind and this thread was great fun.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 03:08

strap on revenge: Apr 8, 2011; that's my thing that i say

I pretty much just want to see as many interesting glitches as possible that aren't used in speedruns

# ? Jul 16, 2015 03:50

cigaw: Sep 13, 2012

Fight Majora's Mask with Epona. :v:

I know that is one of the exploitable glitches when Saving the game while on Epona, but I'm unsure what else can be done.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 12:24

Popo: Apr 24, 2008; Homestuck is a true work of art surpassing all of Shakespeare's works.

Don't worry about an overt gimmick, just break the game over your knee.

I love runs like this. I managed to find this just after going back through MeccaPrimes glitch run of Link's Awakening. Great stuff and really nicely presented.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 13:07

Morroque: Mar 6, 2013

Would it be possible to do anything major on the first day by leaving Clock Town East as a Deku Scrub?

# ? Jul 16, 2015 17:01

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

Majora's Mask is great news! This thread was great, I look forwards to more.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 17:03

C-Euro: Mar 20, 2010; Soiled Meat

Could you do a reverse playthrough or something where you go Ikana - Great Bay - Snowhead - Woodfall, then use items you're not supposed to have to beat the various temples?

# ? Jul 16, 2015 17:27

pointlessone: Aug 6, 2001; The Triad Frog is pleased with this custom title purchase.

Popo posted:

Don't worry about an overt gimmick, just break the game over your knee.

Crush the scripting, see the engine driven before you, hear the lamentation of the loading zones.

It is truly what is best in life.

# ? Jul 16, 2015 23:28

Simply Simon: Nov 6, 2010; 📡scanning🛰️ for good game 🎮design🦔🦔🦔

Be aware of this LP and double down. Clone areas until you get 68 Heart Pieces as soon as possible. Do the last temple first, show us what Light Arrows do against the first mini-boss. Find a way to always win the Garren races with some insane trick.

I wanna be a guest commentator. Hit me up. SASimonS(AT)gmx.de Dammit SA, Alt Gr + Q is an AT sign on a German keyboard, not a shortcut for quote!

# ? Jul 16, 2015 23:58

Ometeotl: Feb 13, 2012; It's MISSEL! Or SISSLE!
I confused myself...

I just want to see weird glitches and bizarre applications of glitches you'd never normally see in a speed run.

# ? Jul 17, 2015 03:01

DoctorKill: Jul 23, 2013; W H A T H A V E Y O U D O N E T O M Y B E A U T I F U L M O O N

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

As far as things to show off are concerned, I guess just generally trying to subvert intended sequences as much as possible. Getting into the ranch without the powder keg, doing Ikana before Great Bay Temple, etc. The game has a fairly large set of "you must do A before you can do B" arrangements, and I'm sure with clever thinking many if not most of them can be broken.

C-Euro posted:

Could you do a reverse playthrough or something where you go Ikana - Great Bay - Snowhead - Woodfall, then use items you're not supposed to have to beat the various temples?

I should be able to swing doing temples in reverse, at least sort of. Based on the tricks I want to show off I'll probably want to separate some of the bosses from the rest of the dungeons and do them in a different order, but I can 'finish up' dungeons in reverse, i.e. get all the fairies and items and stuff. I'll definitely be doing a lot of sequence breaks.

strap on revenge posted:

I pretty much just want to see as many interesting glitches as possible that aren't used in speedruns

This is my main concern honestly. I think more of the MM lp will come from the 100% speedrun than OoT, though I've tried my best to mix things up. Maybe I'm off base on that though, I guess we'll find out in the future.

Morroque posted:

Would it be possible to do anything major on the first day by leaving Clock Town East as a Deku Scrub?

Nah, you can get some heart pieces but that's about it.

Also I had a quick question about archiving. Is there anything I should / need to do before I message lparchive, like upload it to another host or something for backup? Are the bonus episodes fine being separated from the rest of the episodes? I don't know what'll be better for the archive. I also thought about redoing the first two episodes with post commentary so that they'd match the rest of the episodes in the archive, but I don't know if that's really necessary.

# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:31

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

DoctorKill posted:

Also I had a quick question about archiving. Is there anything I should / need to do before I message lparchive, like upload it to another host or something for backup? Are the bonus episodes fine being separated from the rest of the episodes? I don't know what'll be better for the archive. I also thought about redoing the first two episodes with post commentary so that they'd match the rest of the episodes in the archive, but I don't know if that's really necessary.

There's plenty of LPs that only have YouTube videos (and a few older ones that only have Google Video or Blip). Alternate archives are just if you feel they're necessary. Ditto with the post commentary.

# ? Jul 17, 2015 04:54

FicusArt: Dec 27, 2014; Why would I draw dudes when I could be drawing literally anything else?

Ometeotl posted:

I just want to see weird glitches and bizarre applications of glitches you'd never normally see in a speed run.

This is what I'm most interested in, but even just walking through spreedrun glitches in a let's play format sounds fun

# ? Jul 17, 2015 05:18

MissileWaster: Jul 2, 2007; Remember that one time you totally botched that snap?

I think Reverse Temple Order would be somewhat interesting. Really just going on a general 100% playthrough would probably be a good idea, there's some cool tricks for completing some of the puzzles that most people won't ever see unless they watch a full 100% run.

I'd be down to give guest commentary a go for MM, I'm fairly familiar with MM speedrunning and several of the major tricks although I've never really tried to do any runs myself. Skype's the same as on here.

# ? Jul 17, 2015 05:24

MatchaZed: Feb 14, 2010; We Can Do It!

I'd be down for commentating. hpgross on skype

# ? Jul 17, 2015 18:40

Popo: Apr 24, 2008; Homestuck is a true work of art surpassing all of Shakespeare's works.

FicusArt posted:

This is what I'm most interested in, but even just walking through spreedrun glitches in a let's play format sounds fun

Seriously. One of the best off site LPs I've seen was Portal Done Quick, a play by play showing of how a speed run works done a really well presented and paced manner. It made the final showing the speedrun that much more impressive because you saw all the effort that went into lulling it off.

That said, glitch runs for glitches sake are also stunning to see.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 02:38

Markovnikov: Nov 6, 2010

Popo posted:

Seriously. One of the best off site LPs I've seen was Portal Done Quick, a play by play showing of how a speed run works done a really well presented and paced manner. It made the final showing the speedrun that much more impressive because you saw all the effort that went into lulling it off.

That said, glitch runs for glitches sake are also stunning to see.

Would you happen to have a link to that? I too like speed runs, but most of the times the ones you see are incomprehensible garbage. Quick garbage tho'

# ? Jul 18, 2015 03:31

Zeikier: Jan 26, 2010; "This woman...she's killed before, and not just once..."

I'd be interested in guest commentating. I'm familiar with MM speedrunning but not experienced, but I have played Majora's Mask and love the hell out of it. Skype is Zeikier and/or nightowl0247

# ? Jul 18, 2015 03:44

Azzanadra: Jun 18, 2008; The Light is the power of Dance

I knew way too much about MM, but I have zero knowledge of speedrunning tricks and/or glitches. So if you want some side commentary reactions to you ripping my favorite zelda game apart I would love to have front row seats to the craziness. Skype name is sazzanadra.

# ? Jul 18, 2015 05:14

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# ? May 21, 2024 13:27

Naramyth: Jan 22, 2009; Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

Markovnikov posted:

Would you happen to have a link to that? I too like speed runs, but most of the times the ones you see are incomprehensible garbage. Quick garbage tho'

# ? Jul 20, 2015 21:43

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Let's Play! > Let's Play Ocarina of Time Super Wrong

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