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GuyDudeBroMan posted:How so? What stats are you looking at to measure "better off"? Calories consumed. Life expectancy. Literacy rate. Infant mortality. Wages. If you do, you'll find all drop considerably for low-end workers entering into the new industrialized workplace. In the example of England, which usually comes up since it was one of if not the first European power to go through the process, just about every marker you mention above becomes precipitously worse for small freeholders who got turfed off their land by enclosure and had to find work in the mills (alongside their children, who really got it in the back of the neck). Then again, this thread has magically become about CoC's disastrous life and feverish messianic delusions, since he just can't stop talking about them, so we should concentrate on the hilarity to be found there don't you think?
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May 14, 2015 22:19
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Helsing posted:Debt and spending are economic questions with a moral dimension. But either way the problem with your argument is that the economic / moral arrangements of contemporary society are better than they were in the past. Not that long ago it was common to let children starve to death or to send them to work for extremely long days instead of putting them through school. It's helpful for you to understand something about myself. I am the son of a progressively minded well-off family who were steeped in the arguments you champion. I was probably the smartest child at most of the public schools I attended, as well as the most delinquent. Based on my life experiences, I have rejected this world view almost entirely in favor of Biblical truth. This will place me firmly in the minority viewpoint of this forum, and also with an uncanny perception and discernment for these lies and their former influence on my world view. The moral crisis is unfolding at a slow rate and it will take time for its victims to have their voices heard. Your assessment of how they are better off than they were is your point of view and one that is implicitly adopted in the public education establishment at large. It is not challenged because students are not given the tools to challenge it. I shared this point of view with these forums and my peers for most of my life, and now because I don't, most of my debating tactics will resolve around exposing the assumptions or axioms underlying the views you hold. For example, it's very easy for me to point out that the demographic of these forums has been largely devoid of any real struggle. My life has been one long painful struggle so I have the conviction to argue with the majority point of view when it doesn't reflect reality. The lack of any real struggle means that the views you and others here hold have not been sufficiently tested by practical experience, but rather are constrained within abstract in-group reasoning. Therefore much of what I will say to counter your point of view will not come from the great chain of lies starting with the so-called "Enlightenment" (although I could certainly get into my thorough philosophical rebuttals) but will rather look something like an anecdote, story, or a parable, and will get you to start asking questions. With regards to sending children to school and children's rights, you are making a moral argument against the injustice of their conditions at that place in time. Whatever we decide to say about that place and time, this is far removed from the conditions of the present, where some children would have been far better off having been forced to work by their parents (I raise my hand enthusiastically!) as well as go to school. The public school system has been a colossal failure for some of its students, like myself, who desperately needed a philosophical and spiritual grounding in their education but these were not included for bogus, lazy arguments about not wanting to offend anyone and in the process letting everyone down. We treat children and people in general much better than in even the recent past eh? Bold assertion and your general sense of things. I don't even know how to begin debating a point like that. I can say that my whole life I was treated like poo poo, and it was all masked by lies of what is really better for me rather than what was truthfully better. I would say this was by and large true for young people like myself in this country - those that didn't so easily fit into the mold or template of what public education was forcibly offering to everyone. quote:If someone threatens you then turn the other cheek. Of course, and if one is exposed to immorality, better to flee then participate. Truth is far easier said than done. To someone who has been a victim and target his whole life for being different, I will be honest with that I feel incredulous at the notion of you correcting me. I feel like a migrant worker or slave being told this by their master. As a follower of Jesus, I live my life as a slave to everyone. One can be a slave to others on this Earth to earn their bread, love the Lord, and always be happy. This is the template of my life now. quote:God will judge. God. Not you. It's up to the government to decide questions of marriage and reproduction, and in the society you live in the government delegates much of this decision to elections and other forms of social pressure from below. It's not your place to judge these arrangements for yourself, you should focus on living your own life and stop feeling so angry about things you cannot change. It is the duty of those in a democratic society to freely argue their point of view, and I will preach the Gospel and Biblical truth even through when I am persecuted. No nation in history has stayed safe from persecution forever. I am called to submit to all earthly authorities unless they do not conform to the will of God. In that case I will suffer the consequences of moral disobedience. quote:People have always been having sex outside of marriage. Even though in the past you could tarred and feathered or executed for it, people still did it. In fact the age at which people start having sex is higher now than it was in the recent past. And it's always been wrong. quote:High marriage rates in Germany didn't magically prevent the holocaust from happening. No, the 20th century was the most horrible and terrible to ever have come to pass. The reason is how far the world turned from God. Nearly half of the world lived under atheist dictatorships at one point. quote:Without trying to be overly judgemental, this does not sound like a healthy relationship. I think you are angry at women but you don't want to admit that you're angry, and this confuses you. That confusion creates tension, and to release that tension you imagine a golden past - the 20th century - and a golden future - your death and eventual ascension to heaven - but both of these things are just mechanisms to distract you from the life you are actually living. Without heaven, life is senseless for someone like me. For those for whom Earth is already heaven, I have no ill will. But fear the one who can throw you into Hell, for what good is gaining the world to lose your soul? You must lose your life to gain it. quote:I'm not going to get into a long debate with you about this so you'll just have to read these words and decide whether to follow through on them but you are clearly very angry: angry at your parents, angry at the woman who rejected you, angry at society, and perhaps most of all angry at yourself. Until you admit that you're angry you will never find any kind of peace, and wrapping yourself in the flag of righteousness and pretending that it's God judging people and not you is both idolatrous and guarnateed to hurt you further. Anger is a just emotional response to injustice. I invite no one to tear into me. They do it on their own. CowOnCrack fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 23:12
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CowOnCrack posted:No, the 20th century was the most horrible and terrible to ever have come to pass. The reason is how far the world turned from God. Nearly half of the world lived under atheist dictatorships at one point.  How you love being wrong.And seriously, I hope you are not counting Hitler as an atheist dictator  CowOnCrack posted:Without heaven, life is senseless for someone like me. For those for whom Earth is already heaven, I have no ill will. But fear the one who can throw you into Hell, for what good is gaining the world to lose your soul? You must lose your life to gain it. Prove heaven or hell is real. Right now. Demonstrate it without using a single religious book or guide. C'mon now. If its so real, do something to demonstrate it. CowOnCrack posted:It's helpful for you to understand something about myself. I am the son of a progressively minded well-off family who were steeped in the arguments you champion. I was probably the smartest child at most of the public schools I attended, as well as the most delinquent. Based on my life experiences, I have rejected this world view almost entirely in favor of Biblical truth. This will place me firmly in the minority viewpoint of this forum, and also with an uncanny perception and discernment for these lies and their former influence on my world view. Anecdotal fallacy.txt You also used your 'Biblical Truth' to freaking harass and demonize a friend because they would not enter a relationship with you, and then panicked and tried to propose. You're an idiot.
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May 14, 2015 23:16
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CommieGIR posted:
I am aware that he considered himself Christian. Anyone who really believes he was a Christian is a fool who is not worth debating with. quote:Prove heaven or hell is real. Right now. Demonstrate it without using a single religious book or guide. C'mon now. If its so real, do something to demonstrate it. Faith is and always will be about the unseen. quote:Anecdotal fallacy.txt I harassed and demonized no one. No one who knows the situation or the people involved would agree with you. Please, take a moment to assess your real motivations here.
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May 14, 2015 23:20
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Personally I was treated quite well by public education, perhaps not perfectly but in a generally positive way - the issue being the greater environment of world capitalism into which I was thrust afterwards, and to a lesser extent, the cruelty of my peers. In so far as there was a moral agenda in my education, it was a pretty positive one. My anecdote cancels out Cow's I think.
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May 14, 2015 23:27
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CowOnCrack posted:I harassed and demonized no one. No one who knows the situation or the people involved would agree with you. Please, take a moment to assess your real motivations here. That's funny, because you documented the situation pretty well, so well that you were PROBATED twice for what everyone agreed was scary and disturbing views. CowOnCrack posted:Faith is and always will be about the unseen. You are right! How about that! But guess what? Every other religion has their faith too. Why is your faith more valid than anyone else? Why is it, out of the millions of religions and BILLIONS of dead myths, that yours just so happens to be right? CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:31 on May 14, 2015 |
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May 14, 2015 23:29
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I've been dead before, all this god stuff is just stories so you feel better about closing your eyes and never waking up
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May 14, 2015 23:46
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PerpetualSelf posted:We now don't have a single stable country on earth governed by any left wing party. Russia is on the rise. Hate and fear are at record levels. Global warming is growing stronger and faster. The world media is being taken over and controlled by singular entities geared towards fulfilling one single purpose. Mankind is losing all autonomy to the fascist government police state and machines. Cuba is a stable country governed by a left wing party.
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May 15, 2015 00:20
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Quite a manifesto you've got going there. Needs a title though. Maybe explore this "struggle" thing.
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May 15, 2015 00:38
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CommieGIR posted:That's funny, because you documented the situation pretty well, so well that you were PROBATED twice for what everyone agreed was scary and disturbing views. None of those people know me or the circumstances. This is the internet. The choir I was a part of certainly doesn't feel that way about what happened - they care about both of their members and just saw it as a misunderstanding and silly drama. They know I'm an oddball and the music program is always full of them. The school obviously cares about the points of view of both students in these disputes. I am actually going to join the choir to sing with them at Carnegie Hall in a couple of weeks even though I was considering dropping it because of the controversy - just to drop in for one last concert and let them know I'm feeling better because they worry about me. Also a great chance to visit my best friend in New York. This is the internet and everyone is predisposed to mock you, as you are well aware. Rather than see your humanity, they want to encourage you to believe you're some kind of creep or monster and that there is no solution. quote:But guess what? Every other religion has their faith too. Why is your faith more valid than anyone else? Because I have investigated the matter and I assent to it intellectually as well as passionately. I also recognize that God is greater than even my theology and mind. I cannot know how he works through the unbelieving world to bring glory to his name's sake but I believe his will is sovereign over everything. The concept that one belief is true and the rest are false is unpalatable to modern tastes, and yet that's the only logical position to hold. All points of view cannot be equally valid when it comes to revelation.
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May 15, 2015 01:28
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CowOnCrack posted:None of those people know me or the circumstances. This is the internet. The choir I was a part of certainly doesn't feel that way about what happened - they care about both of their members and just saw it as a misunderstanding and silly drama. They know I'm an oddball and the music program is always full of them. The school obviously cares about the points of view of both students in these disputes. I am actually going to join the choir to sing with them at Carnegie Hall in a couple of weeks even though I was considering dropping it because of the controversy - just to drop in for one last concert and let them know I'm feeling better because they worry about me. Also a great chance to visit my best friend in New York. No, you idiot. You posted an ENTIRE GUIDE on what she SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT DO to lead people on. You blew your chances to play from the side of 'You just don't understand the situation' by explaining the situation in its entirety as well as your creepy evangelical manifesto about marriage and relationships. You brought this upon yourself, this is not the internets fault, this is YOUR fault CowOnCrack posted:Because I have investigated the matter and I assent to it intellectually as well as passionately. I also recognize that God is greater than even my theology and mind. I cannot know how he works through the unbelieving world to bring glory to his name's sake but I believe his will is sovereign over everything. The concept that one belief is true and the rest are false is unpalatable to modern tastes, and yet that's the only logical position to hold. All points of view cannot be equally valid when it comes to revelation. You're an idiot. Stop posting. There is absolutely nothing intellectual about your investigation. This is a handwave and chest pounding. Nothing more. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:10 on May 15, 2015 |
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May 15, 2015 01:56
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what the gently caress is this thread
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May 15, 2015 03:09
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Choadmaster posted:what the gently caress is this thread It was forgettable nonsense until our most recent evangelist stalker CowOnCrack decided once again to make it all about his horrifying inability to relate appropriately with women, or indeed anyone at all.
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May 15, 2015 04:30
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CowOnCrack posted:My life has been one long painful struggle so I have the conviction to argue with the majority point of view when it doesn't reflect reality. Wow, you're a real piece of work. As someone with actual, real, non-"first-world" problems, I can assure you that anyone who would consider rejection by a girl a significant negative experience has a pretty easy life. Not that it can't be hard and painful, because of course it can. But what sort of rear end in a top hat would actually consider their life a "long, painful struggle" because of things like that? If you actually had to deal with any real problems, things like your love life would not matter to you in the slightest.
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May 15, 2015 05:10
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computer parts posted:improper-axis.png all I was trying to do was find a succinct way to say was that people are in a log phase of growth, so whatever someone's saying about "NOT ENOUGH BABBES HAPPENING" is dumb because there are more than enough developing-country babies to make up for other countries. i picked the first few img result I saw of 'human growth graph' though one of the posters said 'civilization' is coming to an end instead of 'the world,' so I guess the savage hordes coming to get them and their ninentedos and bon bons would not be contradicted by my reply
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May 15, 2015 06:53
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When the savage hoards moved into my neighborhood they drove out the drug dealers from their traditional places and now have big family cookouts in the park every day the weather is nice. it turns out the savage hoards really only get savage about creepy bad people and are actually nice and good neighbors who will invite you to their barbecue.
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May 15, 2015 08:31
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but some of them have qurans...
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May 15, 2015 08:44
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Rodatose posted:but some of them have qurans... One time it got really really hot in the summer and they slept in the park instead of dying of heatstroke in their unairconditioned apartments like civilized people. It was actually safe to walk through the park at night!! There were no drunk people to stumble over at all!! What on Earth is my neighborhood coming to
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May 15, 2015 08:54
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Well poo poo, I feel better about my life now that I can be grateful I'm not a delusional psychopath, thanks D&D
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May 15, 2015 09:11
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CowOnCrack posted:It's helpful for you to understand something about myself. I am the son of a progressively minded well-off family who were steeped in the arguments you champion. I was probably the smartest child at most of the public schools I attended, as well as the most delinquent. Based on my life experiences, I have rejected this world view almost entirely in favor of Biblical truth. This will place me firmly in the minority viewpoint of this forum, and also with an uncanny perception and discernment for these lies and their former influence on my world view. Lol. I'm well off but the normal demographic of SA is well off too so they wouldn't be able to comprehend how hard it is for me
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May 15, 2015 11:18
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swampland posted:Lol. I'm well off but the normal demographic of SA is well off too so they wouldn't be able to comprehend how hard it is for me  White Man's Burden
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May 15, 2015 15:58
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Ytlaya posted:Wow, you're a real piece of work. As someone with actual, real, non-"first-world" problems, I can assure you that anyone who would consider rejection by a girl a significant negative experience has a pretty easy life. Not that it can't be hard and painful, because of course it can. But what sort of rear end in a top hat would actually consider their life a "long, painful struggle" because of things like that? If you actually had to deal with any real problems, things like your love life would not matter to you in the slightest. That was just my latest adventure in hell, guy. My life has been physical (health), emotional, and spiritual torment. This was perhaps the most excruciatingly painful and drawn out hell that I've lived, and that's why it led to my conversion. You turn to God when you have nothing at all left and are ready to be broken in two. I begged and pleaded for deliverance from the hell that I followed this person into. In exchange, every piece of me belongs to my Lord Jesus. I'm ready to be a slave and a big nobody for the rest of my life, rejoicing in whatever I'm given, exalting God and boldly proclaiming the good news of my Christ.
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May 15, 2015 16:57
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CowOnCrack posted:That was just my latest adventure in hell, guy. My life has been physical (health), emotional, and spiritual torment. This was perhaps the most excruciatingly painful and drawn out hell that I've lived, and that's why it led to my conversion. You turn to God when you have nothing at all left and are ready to be broken in two. I begged and pleaded for deliverance from the hell that I followed this person into. In exchange, every piece of me belongs to my Lord Jesus. Being an evangelical is not much different from being completely insane.
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May 15, 2015 17:02
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CowOnCrack posted:My life has been physical (health), emotional, and spiritual torment. you're in school and probably 19 years old dude shut the gently caress up
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May 15, 2015 17:03
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I'm in Hell says the man who has never had to wonder where his next meal comes from.
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May 15, 2015 17:19
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Tommah posted:you're in school and probably 19 years old dude shut the gently caress up I don't think he's in school currently because, to paraphrase a great line from his last trainwreck of a thread, he got friendzoned so hard he it knocked him out of college.
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May 15, 2015 17:24
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It's hard to tell whether D&D has been invaded by a bunch of crazy stupid people lately, or if the crazy stupid people that've always been here have recently been emboldened by some unseen force and have just on a dumb thread-posting spree. My gut says the latter, but I dunno.
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May 15, 2015 17:24
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platedlizard posted:I'm in Hell says the man who has never had to wonder where his next meal comes from. Seriously, there is a guy posting on the internet, which means he has SOME sort of support, whining about how hellish his life is. I think someone needs an all expenses paid trip to the Middle East or Africa.
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May 15, 2015 17:26
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CowOnCrack posted:Faith is and always will be about the unseen. And therefore for gullible halfwits. It actually must genuinely suck to be so uncomfortable with the senselessness of human life and the inevitability of not-being.
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May 15, 2015 17:40
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Smudgie Buggler posted:And therefore for gullible halfwits. Imagine your entire life focused upon what hypothetically happens after it ends. What a terrible waste of life.
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May 15, 2015 17:43
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CommieGIR posted:Imagine your entire life focused upon what happens after it ends. What a terrible waste of life. What a great relief it is to internalise the near-certainty that nothing happens at all.
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May 15, 2015 17:44
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CowOnCrack posted:It's helpful for you to understand something about myself. I am the son of a progressively minded well-off family who were steeped in the arguments you champion. I was probably the smartest child at most of the public schools I attended, as well as the most delinquent. Based on my life experiences, I have rejected this world view almost entirely in favor of Biblical truth. This will place me firmly in the minority viewpoint of this forum, and also with an uncanny perception and discernment for these lies and their former influence on my world view. Nobody ever said the present was great but it is better than it used to be. You are so self absorbed that you haven't put even basic thought into what is being argued here. You think that you're hard done by? I am confindent you never starved and were never forced to work in a factory or a mine. Yeah, you wish your daddy had made you work a part time job after school or during the summer? Go read what it was like working in a coal mine when you're 12 years old. Because somebody hurt you all you can now do is think about yourself. You pretend to care about society but every thing you post is just me-me-me-me-me-me-me. You're wrapping yourself up in the bible to give a bit of dignity to your complaining even though this is the exact opposite of what the bible tells you to do. quote:Of course, and if one is exposed to immorality, better to flee then participate. Truth is far easier said than done. To someone who has been a victim and target his whole life for being different, I will be honest with that I feel incredulous at the notion of you correcting me. I feel like a migrant worker or slave being told this by their master. As a follower of Jesus, I live my life as a slave to everyone. One can be a slave to others on this Earth to earn their bread, love the Lord, and always be happy. This is the template of my life now. You're not preaching though. You aren't making any attempt to understand other people's arguments or to convince them of anything, and you're certainly not setting an example anyone else would want to follow. And no, you do not have any authority whatsoever to decide that earthly authorities are not conforming to the will of God. That's heresy. You are supposed to live your own life and not be judgement. Judgement is not your prerogative. quote:And it's always been wrong. The 19th century was very religious (and had high rates of marriage) but the French and Belgians and British committed atrocities in Africa and Asia comparable to anything that happened during the holocaust. We don't live in some uniquely awful period, full stop. Things are bad now because things have always been bad, but there's no basis for claiming they are worse. You were born with the power to use reason to investigate the world around you and reach conclusions - start using that power instead of relying on what your gut tells you. And don't make up some bunk religious excuse for why you refuse to actually investigate the world because that's just you making excuses to avoid confronting your inner pain. quote:Without heaven, life is senseless for someone like me. For those for whom Earth is already heaven, I have no ill will. But fear the one who can throw you into Hell, for what good is gaining the world to lose your soul? You must lose your life to gain it. You're not actually angry about injustice though, you're angry about being rejected and you're projecting that outward. I doubt I'll belabour these points any further. I've said all that I have to say, and you're arguments are very circular and repetitive. I'm positive that in the short term you won't listen but if you ever get tired of living in a world of your own delusions then maybe take heed to this: you need to give up your anger and accept your own complicity in your life situation or you'll never heal yourself. You have severe psychological problems and pretending that they are somebody else's fault will not help you. You are perverting religion into an excuse for your own bad behaviour.
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May 15, 2015 17:45
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Climate change is going to kill a shitload of poor people and there will be a lot of hand wringing. Moneyed interests will raid the flooded tomb cities and the depopulated equatorial wastelands for resources. Civilization will continue to exist for the foreseeable future. We'll probably nuke ourselves to death at some point. Regardless, life will exist for another billion and a half years or so, though multicellular life has a little less than a billion left. We popped up on the back end of existence on Earth. You can't change anything. Nothing you do matters. There is no god. There is no soul. There is no afterlife. You are going to die. May as well try to enjoy yourself.
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May 15, 2015 17:53
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& let's face it as a species we'll probably naturally evolve away from what we are now in less than a million years. Just 200,000 years ago, which is barely any time at all, Homo sapiens was just getting a start. 200,000 years from now we might be a different species.
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May 15, 2015 18:03
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We can still hope the runaway greenhouse gas effect will kick in this century. That would mean we who are alive got to experience the world at it`s absolute best. Even the end of the world has a silver lining from the rigth perspective. CowOnCrack you should be super happy about end times if you truly belive they are coming. That means you`ll get to chill in heaven and watch us unbelivers broil in our own fat in hades. Have you donated all your Money to the IDF yet? They will need all the fancy gear they can get during upcoming battle for Tel Mediggo.
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May 15, 2015 19:07
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CowOnCrack posted:None of those people know me or the circumstances. This is the internet. The choir I was a part of certainly doesn't feel that way about what happened - they care about both of their members and just saw it as a misunderstanding and silly drama. They know I'm an oddball and the music program is always full of them. The school obviously cares about the points of view of both students in these disputes. I am actually going to join the choir to sing with them at Carnegie Hall in a couple of weeks even though I was considering dropping it because of the controversy - just to drop in for one last concert and let them know I'm feeling better because they worry about me. Also a great chance to visit my best friend in New York. If you had been expelled from your school, or ostracized by the choir, would you take it as proof that you're in the wrong, or would you then have been arguing that they didn't know the whole situation, either? What about the girl you harassed who clearly wants nothing to do with you? She knows the whole situation, but she was "insane and delusional," I think you called her. I'm not sure where you get off thinking the forums' treatment of you is standard internet cruelty, either. E/N is full of broken people who get more sympathy than you. And you're pretty clearly human; nothing is more human than selfishly blaming everything but yourself for your problems, and treating anything good that happens to you as well deserved. Don't give us that "no solution" bullshit, either. You've been offered plenty of solutions for your romantic issues, you just rejected them all because they involved not harassing people.
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May 16, 2015 11:36
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platedlizard posted:One time it got really really hot in the summer and they slept in the park instead of dying of heatstroke in their unairconditioned apartments like civilized people. I think this could make a good idea for a story for like a novel or a movie or something. a 'post-apocalyptic' tale (really a social satire) from the point of view of a disaffected middle/upper class dude experiencing a change for the better in social conditions around them due do demographics shifts. they see all of their cherished antisocial institutions being replaced by more human, communitarian ones and are unable to see the happiness people get from them around them because they are too wrapped up in the role they've cast for themselves as a purist and preserver of the old ways
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May 16, 2015 16:47
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cow you sound like you need some casual sex, possibly gay casual sex
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May 16, 2015 17:17
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!|
Holy poo poo cowoncrack showed up again and no one bothered to tell me? rude.
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May 16, 2015 18:23
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Tighclops posted:I've been dead before, all this god stuff is just stories so you feel better about closing your eyes and never waking up This legit terrifies me then something kicks into my brain to distract me to wash dishes gently caress Fuuuck
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May 16, 2015 19:50
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