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Beat Expert with the most ridiculous ending. My Expert team was Xu (who is completely broken, btw) and Banks. Banks actually got ko'd early on, and I had to run like 3 missions with just Xu. Ended the game with Xu and Shalem, who didn't have a weapon, and things got a little hairy while I was trying to get Monst3r from the security station to the mainframe. Did I mention Xu is completely broken? I expect a lot of failure. Running with Internationale and Banks on Ironman Expert Plus right now if anyone wants to watch: http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops
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May 16, 2015 04:10
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Thanks for watching. I learned a couple new things, and remembered a few others, like Expert Plus turning off the ability to melee enemies who have vision of you. While Shalem is of questionable use below Expert Plus, he is very clearly a good character once you get up there. Starting with a 2 shot weapon (with 2 penetration) allows you to get out of sticky situations where you're in a face off with guards and can't melee because it's turned off in Expert Plus. A few of the Archive characters are actually a lot more useful in Expert Plus as well. Decker starts with a 6 shot revolver and a better starting augment at the cost of losing cloak. Shalem starts with a 3 shot pistol and a better disruptor at the cost of armor penetration. Banks starts with a 2 shot gun, but her On File variant is probably better. Going to keep streaming some more Endless Plus before I head to bed: http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops Miss Lonelyhearts posted:Why do you like Xu so much? His Subdermal Tools lets him loot corporate safes, executive terminals, and vault safes for free (and bypasses daemons). That part doesn't work with shops/cybernetic augmenters, but that'd just be dumb. Subdermal Tools also can disable drones and other various things of use, allowing you to save up power for more pressing matters. He also starts with a Modded Shock Trap that KO's guards for an additional turn more than the default Neural Disruptors (which Xu also starts with). You can set up traps to safeguard your rear, or keep one particular guard completely out of the picture by setting a trap next to a door after he's been KO'd. He will wake up and probably open that door, knocking him out again without you even being nearby. It also completely ignores armor, which is a godsend when you're up against Armor 4+ guards. Finally, Xu is the only character other than Nika who can by default KO two guards in a turn, and he uses cooldowns instead of power. TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 07:24 on May 16, 2015 |
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May 16, 2015 07:21
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Being methodical as hell in expert plus iron man but still running into a stationary guard hiding behind a pillar at the end of a long hallway will never stop being hilarious. Also, if anyone is curious, the augment that prevents the alarm increase on kill is literally useless in expert plus.
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May 16, 2015 21:14
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Miss Lonelyhearts posted:Why? I've never been fortunate enough to have the credits to buy a lethal weapon AND get that augment, always curious if it's worth the money sink. Kills will still increase the alarm, presumably because the +Alarm on KO is separate from +Alarm on death. It's definitely not worth the price of admission, I think.
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May 16, 2015 21:33
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Streaming Ironman Expert Plus again: http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops Come watch me make questionable decisions all in the name of espionage.
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May 17, 2015 03:26
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Done streaming, thanks for watching. Thanks to Kooriken for making me pick Seed, which is actually a ton better than I initially gave it credit for. I think I might actually prefer it over any of the others.
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May 17, 2015 07:59
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I feel like I'll win expert plus ironman tonight. Come and make fun of me as I fail: http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops
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May 18, 2015 01:32
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TastyLemonDrops posted:I feel like I'll win expert plus ironman tonight. Come and make fun of me as I fail: http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops Thanks everyone who watched. I just beat Expert Plus on Ironman with Prism and Archive Banks (+50 credits for every power on a console was killer, and the item itself is worth 400 when you sell), running Seed and Brimstone. I offer some advice for people playing the highest difficulty: 1) Ranged weapons are super valuable. They are completely unneeded in Expert and below, but essential for Expert Plus, and absolutely essential for Expert Plus Ironman. 2) Money is a lot more important than you might realize, which leads to: A) Hit up a server farm as soon as you've got the funds to buy 2-3 programs. There's a lot more utility to be had between marking all visible guards with Wisp, gaining control of a camera instantly with Oracle, distracting with Ping, lowering guard sight range with Shadow, etc. Leash and Seed make Sankaku missions completely trivial, because you can safely hack the majority of the guards for long durations (just kill the human guards, preferably with the drones themselves) B) Hit up every Nanofab and Secondary Server you can safely reach, even if it delays exiting the mission for a turn or two. I ended up buying like 4 weapons and 5 charge packs to refill on ammo. Smoke and flash bombs are great as well. C) You do not need to upgrade your characters all that much, unless you have great items that have requirements. At least for me, stats in order of importance: Strength, Speed, Anarchy, Hacking. Being able to drag guards and allies around quickly is invaluable. D) If an item/augment/program seems mediocre to you, you should probably reconsider. Mediocre items in Expert and below turn into amazing items in Expert Plus. The only one I would say is useless is the augment that prevents +alert on kill. 3) Don't be afraid to straight up kill guards if you think it'll be advantageous. Dead guards not only make the mission easier, but the bodies can be used to distract other guards. The +2 alarm on kill is completely negligible because you will be hitting alert 5/6 more often than not anyway. Would you rather be at alert 6 with more guards, or at alert 6 with less guards? I thought so. 4) It's worth dragging KO'd guards around so they don't wake up. Their bodies can be used as distractions when you're closer to the front lines, as well. 5) Don't be afraid to stand out in the open! If you're aware of every guard in the vicinity and have them tagged or observed, you can actually make quite a bit of progress by standing out in the open: A) Take advantage of how sight works. You can move your characters literally right next to guards, and as long as they move straight, they won't see you, even if they turn around. B) If a guard turns even slightly, you'll get spotted; but you can just position your character on the other side. C) You can keep one un-KO'd guard out of the picture if you're willing to commit a character to it: The guard must be right in front of a door, and your character must be in the same room. Just open the door from the side, then move behind the guard. Because the door was opened from the guard's room, he won't move into the next room, and will look side to side (which is why you move behind the guard after). Rinse and repeat. D) The last ! takes precedence over everything else, as long as your characters aren't spotted. Leaving bodies on the path to you is actually helpful because more often than not, guards will turn right back around after discovering a body. E) Keep doors closed if you don't want guards heading in that direction. They will eventually come in that direction, but in my experience, guards who have no clue where you are will always head for open doors first. That being said, keep doors open to dead ends, or rooms you want guards to head toward. One final bit: Peek, open door, peek. If you aren't doing this for every single room you come across, you're either in a rush or being way too ballsy (which you cannot afford to be in ironman) TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 07:53
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Demiurge4 posted:I was on my way out on a particularly brutal mission where one of my agents was down but I had a clear run to the exit with my other two. I went with my gut and sent Internationale back to drag her to the exit (no med gel) but she caught got and died as well and I only escaped with one agent. The next mission was the final one and I had a really lovely layout and I went down quipping. If you're going to leave someone behind, at least try and get all their equipment. Losing a character isn't actually all that bad, but losing 1000+ credits worth of gear is.
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May 18, 2015 08:03
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Having played more expert plus, I think I actually prefer Archive Internationale over her On File variant.
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May 18, 2015 19:07
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Lichtenstein posted:Prism + Parasite is quite ridiculous. Hack up to three devices at a time for free and actually gain power from hacking if you do less. This combo allows you to either stop bothering with clicking Fusion/consoles forever, or to go on a spree with Nika/miscellaneous Incognita powers. Shame she's (afaik) not in the detention center pool, because she'd make for a much better itemless find than Decker or Shalem. Shalem is actually a good detention center find. 1 armor penetration is really good, even if it's only on ranged weapons. Does anybody know if you get archive characters from detention centers? EDIT: Time for ironman endless plus! http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 21:00 on May 18, 2015 |
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May 18, 2015 20:40
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abardam posted:Yeah, detention centers are probably a good idea. Even with no upgrades, the extra agent will be useful in the last mission just for running around and distracting guards. It's actually rather interesting knowing which characters people win expert plus with. I'm sure playing ironman changes it somewhat, but a lot of the bad or mediocre characters end up being amazing. I wonder if it's just getting good enough to take advantage of the strengths, or them being good regardless? I managed to reach day 6 on ironman endless plus. I didn't get either of the day 5 achievements.  EDIT:  Right at the beginning of every mission. What a bitch.
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May 19, 2015 03:07
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Yeah, I won expert plus ironman with Archive Banks and Prism myself. A lot of the archive agents are 'mediocre' in difficulties lower than expert plus simply because their on file variants are more straightforward to use, and ranged/lethal weapons simply aren't necessary. I've been playing balls to the wall maximum greed even when things are looking poo poo, as people who watch my stream can attest. Going for the ten day endless plus ironman sometime this week.
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May 19, 2015 06:27
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Bhodi posted:The most annoying thing so far has been cameras i can't see with peek. I lose so much time when I open the door and get spotted, then have to run or knock the guard out. Being able to id them through the wall is way more useful than remote hack, honestly. I have to get close for Econ, anyway. If Expert + has taught me anything, peek -> open -> peek should be part of everybody's routine. If you can't see the camera after that, it's because you have cover that'll let you move further in before you can peek again.
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May 19, 2015 18:26
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I'm actually taking Archive Decker in my Ironman Endless + runs now, just so I don't get his On File variant from detention centers. The revolver is just a bonus. Archive Banks and Archive Shalem also don't start with augments, assuming you can get Archive agents from detention centers. So far that hasn't been the case for me though. Everybody else has a useful augment on both their variants.
TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 19:59 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 19:57
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Bhodi posted:Well, you peek, and see the red so you know there's a camera or a guard but you can't see either. So you open the door to peek again so you can hack the camera, and the camera spots you and a guard's on his way to investigate and you also take the security hit. On the + difficulties, you only see the guard/camera sightlines if you actually have sight on the target in question, which is why overabundance of caution is best. Definitely open the doors from the sides though, which also happens the be the appropriate location to stand to ambush them.
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May 19, 2015 20:20
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Stik, if you're still around, there's a bug with the exit codes in Endless that I found out while streaming last night. You can use the exit keycard on vault doors, and it doesn't use them up. The exit keycard will still be in your inventory, and it can be taken to the next mission as long as you didn't use it on the actual exit door. EDIT: I'm streaming Endless + right now, if you wanna watch and get some pointers. http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops EDIT2: Torque Injectors work with disrupters. Archive Nika has an augment that reduces all item cooldowns by 1 whenever she uses a disrupter. Archive Nika's disrupter attacks have no cooldown with a torque injector. TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 20:49 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 20:29
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redreader posted:Sounds like it's by-design, because it would trigger an unwinnable situation otherwise. It's more the problem that you can use a single keycard to open up the vault AND the exit if you want. As far as I'm aware, every level that has a locked exit should have a set of exit keycards somewhere in the level.
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May 19, 2015 21:29
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I am about to put 3 Cloaking Rig IIIs and a Holocircuit Overloader on Archive Nika, who already has a Torque Injector, in addition to her Discharge Re-router. 
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May 19, 2015 22:38
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Back to streaming this super dumb Archive Nika with three Cloaking Rigs: http://www.hitbox.tv/TastyLemonDrops
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May 20, 2015 18:52
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Stik, do you know if it's intended that I get +12 power every so often from Archive Internationale at Alarm 6? I know you get the +12 power immediately upon reaching 6, but sometimes I just get another +12 out of the blue.
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May 21, 2015 02:41
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jsr v2.0 posted:I beat this on Beginner for the first time last night, and felt super accomplished. Now I guess I need to do one of the real difficulties.GOTY btw. Even Expert is just training mode for Expert Plus. Definitely one of my GotY too. EDIT:  Oh come on! TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 21, 2015 |
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May 21, 2015 23:48
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Did anybody look at the patch notes that just went up? This caught my attention: quote:Xu can disable heart monitors
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May 22, 2015 01:01
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Blisster posted:I would love an XCom length campaign for this game. Let me have a stable of agents to choose from, even if I can only take 4 on a mission. There technically is a 'story' in Endless mode that is completely different from the actual story. Central's got something new to say every day you survive; it's basically business as usual if the organization hadn't been busted in the first place.
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May 22, 2015 05:28
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There's already a side mission to rescue a courier during Security Dispatch missions.
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May 22, 2015 06:14
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The jump in difficulty from Beginner to Expert shouldn't really be apparent at all, unless you rely on rewinds. Expert to Expert Plus is basically Beginner to Expert Plus is what I'm saying.
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May 26, 2015 06:36
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Omi no Kami posted:I'm in the last mission of the beginner/tutorial campaign, and I'm a little lost as to what I'm supposed to do: I brought Monst3r to the giant blast door + terminal, he did the several-turn long hacking thing, Incognita starting writing a new program, and the objectives now read "Access the Corporate Mainframe" and "Bring Monst3r to the final security console". Is there another story console somewhere in the level that I'm missing? The only unexplored room is on the opposite end of the level, and I really don't want to make the trip now that security is liberally peeing omni elites at me. Could it be that the final console is in that specific area?  EDIT: It's a room with a giant set of vault doors.
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May 28, 2015 05:41
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Omi no Kami posted:Hmm, this is the right room, right? That is decidedly not the room at all. It is a room with a huge set of sliding vault doors. If nothing looks like it, it might very well be in that one room you haven't explored.
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May 28, 2015 05:53
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Omi no Kami posted:Ooh okay, that's reassuring- the orange light thingie looks vaguely like a bank vault to me, so I'd been under the impression that it was blast/vault doors. Try rotating the map to make sure you haven't missed it in another room. It should have a console right in front of it.
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May 28, 2015 05:58
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Yeah, just kill everybody and save yourself the hassle. I once tried to do a complete ghost run in Expert+ on a mission; it took 3 turns to move a single agent through a room because of the guards' patrol paths, and I had to move three agents through. I did way more damage to myself by waiting those 9 turns instead of just taking the guards out of the picture. All the corporations are easy with specific setups: KEO just needs decent hacking, Sankaku is a complete joke with Leash, Plastech requires a willingness and means to kill those lovely hacker guards, and FTM's gimmick isn't really all that troublesome, to be honest. I usually move fast enough that I can find the scanner before Alarm 1.
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May 28, 2015 21:04
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Shumagorath posted:I just tested it. It will distract all the guards within the yellow AoE to investigate a spot centred on your cursor. You can even ping the room that guards spawn in to keep them in there for another turn or two.
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Jun 30, 2015 18:32
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fspades posted:Any tips and load-out suggestions for expert difficulty? It's kicking my rear end right now, but I believe archive Banks is a right choice due to her econ chip. My first suggestion is to jump straight into Expert+, but I am a crazy person who always tries to loot every single safe in a level, even at max alarm state, so vOv. I'm a fan of Seed/Daemon starts. The most straightforward starting agents in higher difficulties are ones that can kill guards, so Archive Decker (bonus of OF Decker not being in the rescue pool for prison missions) and any iteration of Shalem. I tell people to jump straight into Expert+ because it is a completely different game, and you will pick up bad habits even from Expert. Being afraid of killing people is one of those bad habits. Dead guards can't shoot your guys, and having free reign to do whatever for a period of time is nice. If you're dead set on not killing anyone, put a lot of points into strength to drag people into convenient locations and employ the nefarious strategy of standing over them while dragging a body to keep two KO'd guards down at the same time. Just be careful: You can't melee if you're on top of a body, and you obviously can't do anything if you're dragging a body, on top of another one, and get caught. If you want to roll with A. Banks (and that is an excellent choice, since money is really important for the early game), set it up so that one of your agents can operate alone ahead of the one sitting back gobbling up all the money. Max our the econ chip holder's hacking too, since you get 50 more for each level of hacking. All the agents have their niches, and while I wouldn't say any are straight up bad, you will be pretty disappointed if you ended up rescuing OF Decker, since his starting augment is useless.
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Jun 30, 2015 21:43
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fspades posted:You mean Seed/Brimstone, right? It's an interesting combo I haven't thought about. I tried A. Banks and Internationale, but I'm thinking Wu or Sharp might be more useful. Thanks for the advice. Yeah, Seed/Brimstone. Haven't played in a while  Prism and Archive Internationale work very well with that, since they generate power on their own, to make up for the fact that Incognita is just passively reducing the cost of the first program. Ideally you should gather up enough money in your first two missions to go to a server farm and buy up the rest of what you need. EDIT: Gonna stream some more Endless+ Ironman. Bear with me though, it's been a while since I last played, so I'm probably not completely in the groove of things. http://www.hitbox.tv/tastylemondrops TastyLemonDrops fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Jul 1, 2015 |
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Jul 1, 2015 01:20
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A lot of the third tier items need nerfing.
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Aug 9, 2015 02:14
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Guns are not necessary in beginner at all. Funnily enough though, if you ARE relying on guns in beginner, you're actually in much better shape than someone who has played experienced when moving up to expert.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:55
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One more thing is to weigh the benefits of waiting some turns vs just ramboing through cameras/guards. Yeah, you'll rack up the alarm via the latter, but you're also moving the alarm up by waiting.
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Aug 11, 2015 02:37
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Guards that are dead don't either 
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Aug 13, 2015 02:46
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If anything I can start streaming again. I imagine I'll actually be really rusty now though, since I haven't played in a while. I was planning on it once the new content dropped. I should've saved the runs! Make sure you know the guards' paths whether through observation or the tracking program. You can stand to a guard's immediate side at the end of their patrol, but not if they're going to turn into you. Being one step away from cover helps if you're unsure how things will pan out. Sometimes it's actually beneficial to get spotted (especially as archive decker), so you can pile the bodies in a central location (or because the patrol is kinda inconvenient).
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Aug 23, 2015 14:08
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Not being able to stun a guard in melee range that has sight on you is part of Expert+ (and expert?) It's why I say that you might as well just go straight into expert instead of experienced because it's a completely different game.
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Aug 23, 2015 14:58
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gnome7 posted:That, and the bit where even knocking guards unconscious ups the alarm level. Dead guards don't wake up 
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Aug 23, 2015 16:31
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