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Guavanaut posted:There was only one man with the power, vision, and strength of mind to kill Hitler, and he succeeded. Yeah but he was hosed up. He also killed the guy who killed Hitler.
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May 19, 2015 14:19
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WMain00 posted:Feel free, you'll just create another timeline separate from ours. Nah, that's just a bunch of sci-fi bullshit. Time isn't linear like that, only our perception of it is. All of everything already exists including whatever time travel will have occurred.
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May 19, 2015 14:20
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Ddraig posted:The thing is people already tried to kill Hitler and failed. What makes you, greasy fat white man of the future, better equipped to do it? well for one thing, i'd have both of my hands, so i'm already twice as effective as schenk graf von stauffenberg
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May 19, 2015 14:49
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Extreme0 posted:Killing hitler during WWII means someone else will take his place who is a lot more smarter, not ill-tempered and is willing to do strategy. quote:It turns out that without Hitler, a new leader emerged, Rudolf Gloder, who was equally ruthless. Hitler has been replaced with a Nazi leader who was even more charming, patient, and effective, and as committed to the Final Solution as Hitler had been.
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May 19, 2015 14:57
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Venomous posted:Hitler, and the Second World War in general, was the catalyst for reforms in a fair few countries to establish strong welfare states and social democracies. Why not just kill Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, Friedrich Hayek, Ludwig von Mises and Augusto Pinochet so we're spared the excesses of post-war neoliberalism? A good true left winger you are.
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May 19, 2015 14:58
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VitalSigns posted:Yeah but he was hosed up. He also killed the guy who killed Hitler. Yeah but he also killed the guy who killed the guy who killed Hitler.
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May 19, 2015 15:00
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Gravel Gravy posted:Yeah but he also killed the guy who killed the guy who killed Hitler. Even that heroism couldn't prevent his untimely death
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May 19, 2015 15:04
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VitalSigns posted:Even that heroism couldn't prevent his untimely death You either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain.
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May 19, 2015 15:06
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May 19, 2015 15:12
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Guavanaut posted:I would, but Hitler got there first.
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May 19, 2015 15:14
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ReidRansom posted:All of everything already exists including whatever time travel will have occurred. Whoa, wait, what?  Could you explain this, or, preferably, link to a book that explains it?
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May 19, 2015 15:50
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Concerned Citizen posted:what if i'm black? If you are also gay then you are morally obligated to kill Hitler and take his place.
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May 19, 2015 15:58
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It would be difficult to step on a baby but in this hypothetical situation you should absolutely kill Hitler.
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May 19, 2015 16:20
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DrSunshine posted:Whoa, wait, what? It's one that is thermodynamically favorable to only move in one direction through, but all parts of it exist. Like on Earth it is energetically favorable to move down and not up, but everything that's located there (both above you and below you) already exists, objects just move through it. Now imagine four balls on the edge of a cliff...
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May 19, 2015 16:21
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DrSunshine posted:Whoa, wait, what? One way to get around the paradox of time-travel is to assume the past can't be changed: the present we see is already the result of all time travel that will ever happen. Otherwise you're caught in logical paradoxes: if I go back and kill Adolf Hitler as a child, then there will be no Adolf Hitler in charge of Germany and in the future when time travel is invented no one would think to say "hey you know it sure would be swell if we went back in time to kill Hitler" It makes some sense if you think about it. When we talk about change, it refers to things that are one way at one moment and different in another moment. You can say "oh the streeetlight at 6th and main changed, it was red at 3:57pm on April 12 1962, and green at 3:59". But it doesn't seem to make sense to say "Oh at 3:57pm one thing happened, but then after that 3:57pm was different and something else happened". From that perspective, anything a time traveller does has to be consistent with what already happened or it wouldn't have happened that way. The best explanation I've heard is one that takes questions of free will out of it: imagine you knock a pool ball into a time machine, calculated at a perfect angle that it goes back in time a split second, bounces off something, and knocks its past self out of the way so it could never have entered the time machine. What would you see? One resolution is that when the ball comes out, its angle is wrong, and strikes only a glancing blow at its past self, knocking it a bit askew and it still goes into the machine but at a slightly wrong angle, goes back, comes out at that wrong angle...
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May 19, 2015 16:42
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e: yeah, the two above postsDrSunshine posted:Whoa, wait, what? No links to any books, but basically it's like this All of spacetime was released by the big bang, and so the universe is a set that contains everything. All of time is already in existence and is inextricably linked to the three dimensional space we live in. We perceive time as linear because we cannot see its whole, only how one appears to change as it moves through the other. But all of it still already exists, and should time travel at some point be possible, then everything, as it is, already played out (in our linear sense of things) with those things happening. poo poo doesn't branch off and create new timelines because time doesn't work that way. If that makes any sense. It's too early for me to piece together all my half thoughts on how the universe works ReidRansom fucked around with this message at 17:00 on May 19, 2015 |
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May 19, 2015 16:57
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Crowsbeak posted:A good true left winger you are. Never claimed to be.
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May 19, 2015 17:30
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Us, personally? No. We would be morally required to elect a Time Travel Council, who must create official laws as to how to create the best possible timeline, then send an elite squad of Chrono Heroes to enact the list of changes, and Chronarchiveists to document everything so that the council in the new timeline can make adjustments. Because the Chrono Heroes and Chronarchivists would be time orphans from the bad timeline, they would have difficult lives and need therapy, though, and no doubt each nation would differ as to how should make up the Council, thus creating a competing band of Time Travel Councils and a Space-Time Race. A band of religious zealots called the Society for God's Timeline would try to stop time travel entirely, and bands of Temperoterrorists would threaten to eliminate cultures which they find offends their God of choice. After the Epoch War finally ends, treaties will be signed prohibiting the alteration of history in the multi-verse, and eliminating the knowledge of time travel from every happening, at which point, Hitler will live again, time travel will be re-invented, and the cycle will repeat, creating a five dimensional loop which is the natural course of all civilizations which develop this technology. Anyway, thanks for asking.
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May 19, 2015 20:37
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ReidRansom posted:e: yeah, the two above posts To put it another way, why I said I knew I'd fail at killing Hitler: because he wasn't killed. You can't change the past, because everything that happened in the past already happened. Or, you already tried to kill Hitler, and you failed. We know everyone failed at trying to kill Hitler because he survived until he took his own life. There was never a past where you weren't there to try to kill Hitler.
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May 19, 2015 20:38
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Doctor Butts posted:To put it another way, why I said I knew I'd fail at killing Hitler: because he wasn't killed. You're not thinking with enough dimensions. This is just the timeline in which we haven't developed time travel yet. Have fun being erased in the year 2034, when we perfect it finally.
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May 19, 2015 20:40
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I want to meet Stalin and tell him to be nice and not kill people for fun.
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May 19, 2015 20:41
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Doctor Butts posted:To put it another way, why I said I knew I'd fail at killing Hitler: because he wasn't killed. what if you kill Hitler and then perfectly impersonate Hitler for the remainder of his timeline to the point no one of the period can tell. you'd show Hitler, that's for sure.
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May 19, 2015 20:45
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The guys who invent time travel will have pretty much infinite attempts to change the past to improve things. They already went back and hosed with things, obviously, and Hitler being alive was the best they could do. If you went back to kill Hitler, you'd gently caress up their whole plan, so someone from the future would have to go back in time to before you went back in time, and kill you, to save Hitler.
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May 19, 2015 20:46
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Vitamin P posted:It would be difficult to step on a baby but in this hypothetical situation you should absolutely kill Hitler. What if you drew a little hitler moustache on him with a sharpie first?
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May 19, 2015 20:51
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Good luck time travelling without the discovery of Die Glocke or Xerum 525 cause I hate to break it to you, no one else is going to discover the black sun or Inner Earth.
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May 19, 2015 21:00
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Nutella only exists because post-war Italy faced a chocolate shortage, kill Hitler and it will never be created.
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May 19, 2015 21:02
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David Cameron has the UK time traveling to 1960.
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May 19, 2015 21:12
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Crashbee posted:Nutella only exists because post-war Italy faced a chocolate shortage, kill Hitler and it will never be created.  Good. Nutella (and the Italians) is loving gross.
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May 19, 2015 21:57
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Ddraig posted:The thing is people already tried to kill Hitler and failed. What makes you, greasy fat white man of the future, better equipped to do it? Indestructable mech suit.
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May 19, 2015 22:13
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DrSunshine posted:Whoa, wait, what? If you are living in a universe where it is possible to time travel into the past and change it, time travel will not be developed in that universe. Proof: A time travel machine is developed and people start traveling to the past. "Eventually"* someone changes the past in such a way that the development of the time travel machine doesn't occur. This happens whenever a time travel machine is developed. *There isn't a word to express the concept of changes happening up and down the time line but "eventually" gets the point across.
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May 19, 2015 22:22
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Davethulhu posted:If you are living in a universe where it is possible to time travel into the past and change it, time travel will not be developed in that universe. I'm not sure thats a proof, but it certainly seems to be a probability. It would seem to me that the universe abhors causal paradoxes. I only say that because I have not seen one, but assuming that piece of naive observation holds true, then would seem that timetravel either can't exist, or it can't alter the past *within its own timeline* because it would generate paradoxes in causality. "I am going back in time to kill hitler" ... "Who was hitler , why would I go back in time to kill this poor fellow?" etc. Of course "Kill the guy who invented time travel" would of course be the biggest paradox of all, because once he's dead, how did the time traveller get a time machine to kill him? This doesn't preclude people splitting the timeline, assuming that is actually how physics works (and thats a matter of debate.) but it certainly makes going back on your OWN timeline implausible. And the fact that we don't appear to have seen any time travellers so far indicates that at least in THIS timeline, time travel probably isn't a thing, so far.
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May 19, 2015 22:57
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What if you could only kill Hitler or Reagan before they assumed power? Which one do you kill then?
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May 19, 2015 23:25
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The 80's movie "The Final Countdown" sort of asked this question. A U.S. aircraft carrier wanders into a
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May 19, 2015 23:27
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If you had a time machine and killed Hitler instead of Ronald Reagan then you are a bigger monster than Hitler.
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May 19, 2015 23:30
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the world has come to terms with the damage done by hitler. it's all baked in now. reagan is still wreaking havoc.
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May 19, 2015 23:32
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But what if killing Hitler resulted in a worse version? And if it did, then wouldn't you be morally obligated to take Hitler's place, but do a really bad job on purpose?
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May 20, 2015 00:12
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rudatron posted:But what if killing Hitler resulted in a worse version? And if it did, then wouldn't you be morally obligated to take Hitler's place, but do a really bad job on purpose? I don't know if anyone could've done a worse job than him honestly. He got a lot of his own dudes killed needlessly with his strategic meddling. The only way taking his place would be better is if you offed yourself immediately afterwards.
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May 20, 2015 00:31
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^^^ Exactly, the Hitler we know was really, really bad at being Hitler. How do we know our Hitler wasn't a plant from the future? ^^^rudatron posted:But what if killing Hitler resulted in a worse version? And if it did, then wouldn't you be morally obligated to take Hitler's place, but do a really bad job on purpose? What if this didn't already happen and the person that assumes the mantle of Hitler will be remembered as a hero when it's revealed that person goes back in time?
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May 20, 2015 00:33
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But what reason would he have to go back in time and kill super hitler if only normal hitler exists...unless...wait, he goes back in time to kill hitler, can't find him, finds super-hitler, kills super-hitler and becomes hitler. Everyone thinks he fails, but he didn't. I'm a loving genuis, this is it man.
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May 20, 2015 00:39
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rudatron posted:But what if killing Hitler resulted in a worse version? And if it did, then wouldn't you be morally obligated to take Hitler's place, but do a really bad job on purpose? I wonder how many poor time traveling Hitler Killers have been killed by others while impersonating Hitler?
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May 20, 2015 00:46
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