|
Mr. Unlucky posted:they should remake bladerunner so its not covered in 80s crap and wooden acting. we should remake you so that you're not a piece of 80s crap and lovely poster
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 06:48
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 13:00 |
|
|
I for one would love to live in a future made up of 80's technology.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 09:26
|
|
|
You do though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 5, 2015 10:05
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:murder I can forgive but that was one corny-rear end speech and deserved the death penalty Wasn't that speach largely improvised by Rutger Hauer? I can't be bothered to research it, and I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that Hauer didn't endlessly pace around rehearsing it, but whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2015 20:11
|
|
|
ovenboy posted:Wasn't that speach largely improvised by Rutger Hauer? I can't be bothered to research it, and I guess it doesn't necessarily mean that Hauer didn't endlessly pace around rehearsing it, but whatever. Yea Hauer wrote the whole tears in rain bit, and if you see him on the street he'll be happy to talk to you about how amazing it is all day long. He really really loving loves that speech.
|
|
#
?
Jun 10, 2015 20:23
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Yea Hauer wrote the whole tears in rain bit, and if you see him on the street he'll be happy to talk to you about how amazing it is all day long. He really really loving loves that speech. Well he's right to, it's a pretty goddamn amazing speech. I've always loved the scene where Roy tells Pris that Zhora and Leon are dead - he's trying so hard to express himself emotionally but lacks the depth to do so, and shifts wildly between grief and happiness. You could point to this as "proof" that he isn't truly "alive" and is simply aping emotions, but I've always preferred to think it's just another result of coming into being fully-formed and intelligent but never having had the chance to develop as a healthy emotional being. Their truncated lifespans mean they never really get the chance to figure that out, either, just another unfair artificial limitation enforced on them by their creators who then use it as an excuse to dismiss their claims to being "human". Roy tries so hard throughout the movie to surpass the limitations of his programming, but it was never a matter of programming but development, he never had (and never could have) the time he needed to become "real". That his final moments are spent choosing to save the life of the man who has been hunting him down and has killed all his friends, then reflecting back on his own life and upcoming death just go to show that with a little more time he might have been able to truly become what he wanted to be. Tyrell's denial is particularly cruel because he offers wisdom ("revel in your accomplishments, you are extraordinary" etc) that is built on decades of life experience, something that he explicitly prevented Roy from ever getting to have, and then expects him to understand the message he's trying to impart.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 05:19
|
|
|
A brutal murderer but a victim of circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 18:16
|
|
|
Voted nope, because he was a weirdo. hth
|
|
#
?
Jun 11, 2015 18:19
|
|
|
I don't like his addition of "like tears in the rain" because that's some lameass poo poo some actor would say so no and that's why. Leave out "like tears in the rain" and it's ten times better.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 17:06
|
|
|
I really wanted to see C-Beams glitter in the dark.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 17:51
|
|
|
Sheep-Goats posted:I don't like his addition of "like tears in the rain" because that's some lameass poo poo some actor would say so no and that's why. Leave out "like tears in the rain" and it's ten times better. Totally agree. It's every bit as lame as Marlon Brando hamming it up with "Stella" over and over in A Streetcar Named Desire. It's like we get it dude, you've made your point.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 18:59
|
|
|
"Heeere's Johnny!" = total noob poo poo that only a professional actor would think to do.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 19:02
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:Totally agree. It's every bit as lame as Marlon Brando hamming it up with "Stella" over and over in A Streetcar Named Desire. It's like we get it dude, you've made your point. I honestly can't tell if you agree with that scrub or you're being sarcastic. Regardless, the 'tears in rain' line is poetic and beautiful and owns.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 20:01
|
|
|
zVxTeflon posted:I feel sorry for the goony hick guy who just wanted to stick the daryl hannah bot Sebastian has a woman in his upstairs bathtub for some inexplicable reason. She's there for a few frames in the original film (right when Batty headbutts through the wall), but you can see her full-on at the beginning of Dangerous Days documentary. It's never explained who she is, if she's a replicant toy like some of the others, or if she's some "bioreactor" used to create his toys.  Also, Sebastian totally knew the answer to Roy's question and was pretty much counting on Roy having a breakdown and probably killing himself. You can see him chuckling when Tyrell is explaining the "facts of life" to him. It changed my thought of him as some innocent caught up in the replicants' schemes but a backstabbing and conniving coward who lust after some hot replicant poon since he can't get off-world to get some.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 20:55
|
|
|
That reading of Sebastian is kind of stretching it. Sebastian is written as a lonely, depressed nerd who is happy with the attention he gets from Pris and tries to help out in the vague hope that she'll spend more time with him (and be interested in him romantically). He's like the equivalent of that goon who carried a printer two miles to a girl's house for the chance of getting a hug. That level of mind manipulation from somebody who still plays with wind-up toys and can't beat Tyrell in chess without Roy's help seems pretty out of character. His laughter in that scene I've always read as nervous laughter, and Sebastian's entire character exudes a total lack of confidence. I do think he dislikes Roy, but that's because Roy is a total alpha who gets to sleep with girls like Pris. He definitely fears Roy enough to bring him to Tyrell.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 23:15
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:That reading of Sebastian is kind of stretching it. Sebastian is written as a lonely, depressed nerd who is happy with the attention he gets from Pris and tries to help out in the vague hope that she'll spend more time with him (and be interested in him romantically). He's like the equivalent of that goon who carried a printer two miles to a girl's house for the chance of getting a hug. That level of mind manipulation from somebody who still plays with wind-up toys and can't beat Tyrell in chess without Roy's help seems pretty out of character. His laughter in that scene I've always read as nervous laughter, and Sebastian's entire character exudes a total lack of confidence. I do think he dislikes Roy, but that's because Roy is a total alpha who gets to sleep with girls like Pris. He definitely fears Roy enough to bring him to Tyrell. I don't think "not being able to beat Tyrell at chess" is some kind of black mark.
|
|
#
?
Jun 14, 2015 23:57
|
|
|
My point is that attempting to attribute some level of hyperdimensional mind manipulation like predicting how Roy will react to Tyrell's news to someone as guileless as Sebastian is a stretch, at best. Sebastian is a savant, but only at creating AI and not so much at understanding human relationships.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 00:15
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:My point is that attempting to attribute some level of hyperdimensional mind manipulation like predicting how Roy will react to Tyrell's news to someone as guileless as Sebastian is a stretch, at best. Sebastian is a savant, but only at creating AI and not so much at understanding human relationships. Is predicting that someone told they're beyond help will react badly really hyperdimensional mind manipulation?
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 00:29
|
|
|
It's just a very labored reading of the character to suggest that Sebastian is manipulative enough to predict that Roy will up and off himself upon hearing Tyrell's news, while somehow also not being manipulative enough to foresee that Roy might possibly lash out at him as well. Sebastian knows what Nexus 6 replicants are capable of; he helped design them. He knows that Roy is a combat model built for violence and is visibly uncomfortable around him in all their scenes together. He is reluctant to even take Roy to Tyrell Corp., until Pris says pretty pretty please with a cherry on top. If he really wanted Roy out of the picture as Young Freud suggests, Sebastian would be all over that idea. Instead, it is Sebastian who is manipulated into delivering Roy straight to his creator out of sympathy due to his own condition, or a sexual infatuation with Pris, or both. This is a man who, despite his considerable talents and youth, is stuck on shithole Earth due to his genetic defect. He is so profoundly lonely that he builds toys that greet him by name when he gets home from work. These are not the hallmarks of a master manipulator. He is played the entire way through, and his arc is a tragic one. It's also important to our coloring of Roy Batty that Sebastian is a sympathetic character, because it shows that Roy is not some ennobling savior of replicants the world over, but a scared and desperate man facing his own mortality. In other words, Roy is very human.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 01:54
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:It's just a very labored reading of the character to suggest that Sebastian is manipulative enough to predict that Roy will up and off himself upon hearing Tyrell's news, while somehow also not being manipulative enough to foresee that Roy might possibly lash out at him as well. Sebastian knows what Nexus 6 replicants are capable of; he helped design them. He knows that Roy is a combat model built for violence and is visibly uncomfortable around him in all their scenes together. He is reluctant to even take Roy to Tyrell Corp., until Pris says pretty pretty please with a cherry on top. If he really wanted Roy out of the picture as Young Freud suggests, Sebastian would be all over that idea. Instead, it is Sebastian who is manipulated into delivering Roy straight to his creator out of sympathy due to his own condition, or a sexual infatuation with Pris, or both. This is a man who, despite his considerable talents and youth, is stuck on shithole Earth due to his genetic defect. He is so profoundly lonely that he builds toys that greet him by name when he gets home from work. These are not the hallmarks of a master manipulator. He is played the entire way through, and his arc is a tragic one. It's also important to our coloring of Roy Batty that Sebastian is a sympathetic character, because it shows that Roy is not some ennobling savior of replicants the world over, but a scared and desperate man facing his own mortality. In other words, Roy is very human. He doesn't have to be a master manipulator for there to be some element of...I guess you'd call it malice. He resent Roy's physical perfection and relationship with Pris, and takes Roy knowing full well that what he wants is impossible. The fact that he didn't anticipate his own death suggests that he isn't a master manipulator, just a slightly spiteful, jealous man who didn't fully think it through. I agree with your assessment of him and the readings are only incompatible if you want to frame him as a master manipulator or quantum mindfucker or whatever, and you're the only one describing him that way.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 02:13
|
|
|
He's definitely a socially inept, easily manipulated loser just like he is in the book. He chuckles because he's watching his boss and a top of the line product talk about things he's familiar with. He's getting a kick out of it just like when he asks Roy and Pris to show him a trick or whatever. Remember also that while we know how ruthless Roy can be in the name of getting more life, to Sebastian this is a revelatory experience where he sees the creation able to go intellectually toe to toe with the creator. This is like the highlight of his year.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 02:16
|
|
|
I feel sorry for pretty much everyone, OP
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 02:54
|
|
|
I hadn't read Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep until a few years ago and now I'm just mad at that movie forever for not including that scene with the second police headquarters nobody knew about
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 04:04
|
|
|
Yaws posted:I honestly can't tell if you agree with that scrub or you're being sarcastic. He's being sarcastic but I don't blame you for not being able to tell because he's also grouping Rutger Hauer in with Brando and Nicholson. A cliched as gently caress simile isn't poetic or beautiful nor does it own.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 04:27
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:I hadn't read Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep until a few years ago and now I'm just mad at that movie forever for not including that scene with the second police headquarters nobody knew about Don't worry, someone made a movie just about that scene... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZDrTylco1o (Redband trailer, be warned)
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 04:49
|
|
|
Sheep-Goats posted:He's being sarcastic but I don't blame you for not being able to tell because he's also grouping Rutger Hauer in with Brando and Nicholson. The way he delivers that line is what sells it. It's good poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 04:56
|
|
|
I think the tears in rain line wouldn't work as well if it wasn't actually raining, with the drops falling down Roy's face as if they were tears. It comes off like he thought of it because it happened to be raining; in context I think it works just fine.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 14:36
|
|
|
Snowman_McK posted:I don't think "not being able to beat Tyrell at chess" is some kind of black mark. Wasn't that game like two moves from mate and neither Sebastian nor Tyrell had realised? Both of them are horrible chess players.
|
|
#
?
Jun 15, 2015 22:15
|
|
|
qntm posted:Wasn't that game like two moves from mate and neither Sebastian nor Tyrell had realised? Both of them are horrible chess players. Actually, they're extremely good chess players from the 19th century. In fairness Sebastian completely missed that he could make that move, and that probably wasn't the case in real life with Anderssen. Obviously the symbolic importance of the game's name is intentional, but in terms of chess play it does not have the feel of one played out slowly with both sides making very deliberate moves.
|
|
#
?
Jun 16, 2015 07:01
|
|
|
Well, good news - we still have about six months before Roy Batty is "born", in case you want to do anything about it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 06:19
|
|
|
Mister Mind posted:Well, good news - we still have about six months before Roy Batty is "born", in case you want to do anything about it. Too late, the seed would have to have been planted three months ago.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 07:24
|
|
|
I actually feel sorry for Roy Batty even as he is killing Tyrell. I have far more sympathy for him than Tyrell in that scene, after all, Batty didn't create and profit off himself, and his creator gave him a short, brutal life as a weapon of war that he can't escape from. The death is poetic and fairly justified, Batty is lashing out at his horrible existence at the person most directly responsible. The assumption we make as the film plays out is that Batty is the villain and Deckard the hero. The story ultimately challenges us with the idea that Batty is the hero and Tyrell is the villain, Deckard is really just a pawn.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2015 07:49
|
|
|
I think I felt more sorry for JF Sebastian.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2015 11:42
|
|
|
Myrddin_Emrys posted:I for one would love to live in a future made up of 80's technology. I want someone to take a cue from Alien Isolation and go all retrotech with their sci fi movie. I felt bad for Roy. His road to dying on that rooftop was a messy, awful existence and I think he made the most of it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 04:33
|
|
|
Mr. Unlucky posted:they should remake bladerunner so its not covered in 80s crap and wooden acting. Nah, movie is perfect as is. There is however a sequel to Blade Runner in the works because Ridley Scott has been going off the deep end ever since he made Black Hawk Down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 17:12
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:There is however a sequel to Blade Runner in the works because Ridley Scott has been going off the deep end ever since he made Black Hawk Down. I know bringing up Prometheus can sometimes start a firestorm around here, but if Scott's Blade Runner sequel is as thoughtful and well made as Prometheus I'll be perfectly happy with it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 17:27
|
|
|
James Hong deserves a goddamned lifetime achievement award for his roles in this, Big Trouble in Little China, and The Vineyard.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 19:50
|
|
|
TheBuilder posted:James Hong deserves a goddamned lifetime achievement award for his roles in this, Big Trouble in Little China, and The Vineyard. I first discovered James Hong as the guy who can't say Constanza in the Chinese Restaurant episode of Seinfeld. He's also a great voice actor, I believe he plays Poe's father in the Kung Fu Panda series.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 20:08
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:I know bringing up Prometheus can sometimes start a firestorm around here, but if Scott's Blade Runner sequel is as thoughtful and well made as Prometheus I'll be perfectly happy with it. I really did hate Prometheus. Alien and Blade Runner are two of my favorite movies of all time too.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 20:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 2, 2024 13:00 |
|
|
I said come in! posted:I really did hate Prometheus. Alien and Blade Runner are two of my favorite movies of all time too. I really loved Prometheus. Alien and Blade Runner are also two of my favorite movies of all time. What a world.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2015 20:36
|
|