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I get to agree with one post in its entirety, and suddenly that was my endgame all along. Alrighty.
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Jul 26, 2015 02:48
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I can't circlejerk you unless I know what you want me to say, brother.
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Jul 26, 2015 03:00
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Seriously, I'm pro-anime titties and I have no idea what you're getting at Scribblehatch. Not trying to score points on you or anything, I'm just wondering what the topic is supposed to be about. Precensorship usually refers to stuff like tailoring or self-restricting oneself to avoid losing sponsors or, even worse, punishment from politically repressive regimes. Wanting to avoid, say, blowback or a negative reaction from online communities is basically the same impulse at lower stakes, but few people really think about it in terms of "censorship" because the consequences for transgressing are much less severe and the self-preservation urge to censor one's own art or journalism is much, much less pronounced. Sometimes you stumble onto offending actual crazy people like what happened to Rod Serling or, more relevant to the medium, the lady who makes Ava's Demon. More often though you get situations where the initial blowback was more measured/reasonable but the artist's own overreaction to the blowback ignites a firestorm of explosive internet shits. Anybody who can recall any internet drama shitstorms in recent memory can figure out relevant examples. Hell, you've suffered some negative reactions to you posting some of your nws stuff elsewhere in CC. A lot of it not unreasonable, as Troposphere made some salient points about composition, body types, and male gaze in there when she was venting at you in the digital art thread, points reiterated and expanded on by others. If you're asking about pre-censoring yourself to avoid that kind of reaction, well... that's not really "censorship" now is it? That's just the natural effect of stuff like shame, common sense, and honestly a little bit of growing up. And if you decide you're willing and able to handle that sort of reaction, that too is the result of facing shame, making a conscious and conscientious decision about self-expression, and also growing up--if you can react to negative reactions with maturity and a thick skin, because lacking that means you're not really ready to handle the consequences of expressing yourself in that way. When people say "who gives a gently caress, do what you want to do," this is basically what they mean. Don't throw a tantrum because you offended somebody and don't be a dick to the person you offended, just realize you can't please everyone, be able to compartmentalize yourself apart from your work or even your hobby so that you avoid taking criticisms personally (even when the critic intends for you to take it personally, in which point at least try to see where they're coming from and why you're getting such a strong reaction), and maybe even approach your art with an understanding of humility. Also, it helps to keep a level head about stuff like context, both in your work and outside of it. I mean, for a decent stretch the digital art thread was basically cheesecake pics because other artists got uncomfortable posting their work there. To play even further afield since I actually don't know what this topic is supposed to be about, nobody's really that worried about whether or not Simpsons Did It. I mean you have tons of copycats of popular stuff all over the place in all industries. For webcomics and web media, Homestuck was supremely unique and iconoclastic up until the point when a bunch of people started copying it. And honestly people are willing to give copycats a shot, too. gently caress's sake there's goons who read and enjoy Prequel, of all things. Ugh, Prequel. I digress. Just do whatever the gently caress you think is right by you, whether that means moderating your own voice or just going whole hog. You've got a right to express yourself, just don't get all defensive if other people express themselves about your work and their opinion is negative. Seriously, the one other poster here who has a history of ~forums drama~ with you literally just told you to do whatever the gently caress you want, in this very thread. That post was also poking fun at you and oozing with sarcasm, but even at face value it's true. Nobody can stop you but you, and whether or not you're willing to make the sort of decisions (compromises or convictions) that whatever your unspoken and unposted inner questions ask of you is, ultimately, up to you.
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Jul 26, 2015 04:05
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In other words nobody really cares but you, so you have to decide what it is you want to do.
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Jul 26, 2015 04:06
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Avshalom posted:I have trouble with pre-censorship too. From the moment I sit down and my pen touches the tablet, I'm thinking, "Is this decent? Does this concept deserve to be expressed?" As the nib traces the supple curves of my character's fine and fruitful body and my erection quietly swells I wonder, "Am I contributing to the plot with this intense and unapologetic nudity? How does this character's bulging scrotum define his personality? Are these rosy nipples a metaphor for something?" Is this art? Is this a cultural event? Every comic page is an education, a revelation, a red-hot orgasm. How can I deliver yet more nudity into a world already saturated with the wonders of the human figure? Everywhere I turn, another sculpted buttock vies for my attention. Bosoms wobble and pulse, their lines gilded by sunlight. Rigid cocks bristle in the shadows. I reach under the desk and stroke myself thoughtfully as I ponder the dilemma: should I make my character wear clothes or not? Would this scene be better if he were naked? Would the emotional thrust be increased if she was being railed with multiple monstrous vibrators? Will I be slandered all over the internet for offering a tantalising glimpse of exquisitely groomed pubic hair? The drawing unfolds before me and in my agony I erupt like a Krakatoa of cum. There they are! The breasts! My anguish, my ecstacy, my artistic vision, all are unveiled at last. My soul is bared online for all to see, to speculate over, to analyse both intellectually, with their minds, and sexually, with their hands and cocks. I post a link to the update on my Facebook and my mother says it's "interesting." please never think that you need to censor yourself, Avshalom
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Jul 26, 2015 04:54
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Ever the dogpile.T.G. Xarbala posted:In other words nobody really cares but you, so you have to decide what it is you want to do. One of YOU brought up nudity in this thread. Not me. And I was not playing at it, or responding to it, because I don't care about the subject anymore. The last time, if anyone recalls, it was about services like Paypal. Which have very subjective moderation over "adult" content. And then I discovered Stripe. Stripe, which unlike Paypal, allows NSFW transactions. That was the concern. The concern is now vapor. You're chasing vapor. With the specific topic I chose, it's like this: The forum is a helpful archive that is easy to link to people, even if they aren't members. I wanted an impersonal discussion that I could show to a few of my friends over skype who are, to put it lightly, Nervous Nellys. It gets no more complicated than that. But you kept at this self-assigned snipe hunt, and I really dunno what to tell you. "Well the only way NOT to make it worse, would be not to respond at all" I thought. I was mistaken. Scribblehatch fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 05:02
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Oh is that all? Well take what I and other people posted, excise the stuff that was specifically tailored under the assumption that you were asking a personal question and not an impersonal rhetorical, and apply the general gist of what remains. The only people who really care about what your friends are doing is them, so they've got to decide what it is they want to do and how to do it. Also you could've opened with that bit of context.
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Jul 26, 2015 05:11
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People were asking because no one could figure out what you were talking about.
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Jul 26, 2015 05:18
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In my experience, too much context makes the content of the conversation less universal, less timeless. I like allegories that can be relevant no matter where you go or when you are. The last thing I wanted to do, was make it about ME and my experiences. My friends over skype know quite enough about me. But this as it turns out only really works best in anonymous discussions. Here I have a name, and a demonstrable trail of bread crumbs why I might be bringing it up. Ah well.
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Jul 26, 2015 05:19
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what do you guys think of big luscious anime breasts I'm asking for a friend
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Jul 26, 2015 05:39
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Scribblehatch, don't worry about it. If people are upset it's their problem. Answers tend to be more relevant to you if you can provide some background. If there's any frustration it might be due to such a broad prompt that requires parsing a lot of experiences into written English (to answer thoroughly). I mean, this was basically a yes or no question posed to people who are willing and able to share their insight with you. Scribblehatch posted:Any of you guys ever dealt with precensorship before?
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Jul 26, 2015 05:40
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So to bring the topic to comics, I made my 100th page this weekend. It won't be posted for a while because I have to build more buffer, but hey, milestones! e: Thanks! vvv John Liver fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 05:45
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I thought the chapter break images you posted were both great, btw.
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Jul 26, 2015 05:47
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Troposphere posted:what do you guys think of big luscious anime breasts I wallpaper my house with them; a bounteous tiling pattern
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Jul 26, 2015 07:49
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Scribblehatch posted:
It's mentioned a lot in creative circles but if your friends are nervous about their art in general, I'd highly recommend the book Art and Fear. There's a section in it that covers this topic. It also has a lot of other stuff and is just a really good read in general for dealing with art related anxiety.
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Jul 26, 2015 09:39
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JuniperCake posted:It's mentioned a lot in creative circles but if your friends are nervous about their art in general, I'd highly recommend the book Art and Fear. There's a section in it that covers this topic. It also has a lot of other stuff and is just a really good read in general for dealing with art related anxiety. Thanks for this - I read about the first 20-30 pages of this in a Library once and then forgot the title. Now it's on my Kindle. The first bit was great.
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Jul 27, 2015 03:01
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I feel like this is the place to post this. It's of the "You don't necessarily want realism, but believability" vein. These as well, but I feel they get pretty good circulation as is.  
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Jul 27, 2015 20:04
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In an effort to motivate myself into actually making progress on my webcomic planning, I've started (just barely) posting art on Twitter. (If anyone wants to look at the grand total of one relevant sketch up there now, I'm @astralharpy). I dunno, how do you guys stop being terrified of actually initiating a project? I've gotten very good at being avoidant the past few months and it's really impeding any progress.
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Jul 27, 2015 22:59
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Until recently I was hung up on a workflow that would allow me to finish segments of a story before my art matured noticeably. I found a solution in 3D modelling. Basically, take a model and a scene and work it over in Painter to make it look like a painting rather than a 3D scene. Before that, my art was improving too fast. Took about two years of a full-time load of art classes. Scribblehatch, I had an unexpected bit of feedback on one of my stories recently. It was that the plot was "very American." I tried to avoid writing Mary Sues, but apparently the outcome was still too perfect. That particular story takes place in a world where players are used to winning, though, so I'm going to keep it. But if it was an original fiction, I would have to say the feedback was right. Sometimes it's more fun if a character dies or loses. Do the thing you can't bring yourself to do, be a jerk sometimes. Anagram of GINGER fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 00:13
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Delta Echo posted:Before that, my art was improving too fast. I'm extremely confused by this sentence
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Jul 28, 2015 01:51
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I feel there's an anti-troping trap that a few people fall into after lurking for awhile. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtQNULEudss I hope that's not too much of a left turn. What you said just kinda reminded me of that. There are some weird little story-hipsters out there. And some of them double as critics.
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Jul 28, 2015 01:58
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sweeperbravo posted:I'm extremely confused by this sentence Some artists have found a look or technique they like, and can reproduce them. But that hasn't happened for me. Yet. One of my desired outcomes for a formal art education was the ability to produce my stories. During those art classes, my art constantly changed. I wanted consistency in my artistic style so a reader could follow a chunk of the story without being distracted by a visual style that changed page by page. Not for the life of the story, but at least a chapter. My art changed so much that by the time I finished a week's work, the next page would look different. If I wanted a consistent look throughout a chapter, it would require processing all of the pages in sequence at each step. Ideally, you can push out one page at a time after storyboarding, refining, and polishing it. For the sake of consistency, I would have needed to storyboard at least a chapter all the way through, then refine it all the way through, then polish all the way through. It was a problem caused by my skills that were changing week to week, and I wanted it to be the best work I could manage. I solved it with 3D modelling. Texture a model or environment once, then pose everything like barbie dolls (or GI Joes) and go over it all with a brush to make it look like a painting. You could do the same thing with Source Film Maker, or DAZ Poser, but I don't use those programs and they wouldn't suit my needs anyway. Those are also great ways to get written off as a hack and dismissed for the look. I work in the more industry-standard type programs like Maya and Zbrush, and some lesser-known ones. So. Even though 3D modelling is a tool that can help you achieve consistency, I still needed more experience and education in those tools to reach the look I see in my mind. I could have drawn everything page by page, but I dislike the idea of spending hours (upon hours) on a static image. In fact I despise it.
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Jul 28, 2015 02:30
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Art changing in the middle of a work isn't exactly a new or unknown phenomenon. It's not even unique to web media.
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Jul 28, 2015 02:35
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Delta Echo posted:I could have drawn everything page by page, but I dislike the idea of spending hours (upon hours) on a static image. In fact I despise it. You might enjoy writing over comics, then. 
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Jul 28, 2015 03:38
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Art changing over time is the best thing because you can go back and look at your story from the beginning when you're feeling down and see how far you've come. Plus it just like... Is A Thing. Avoiding it seems like more work than its worth.
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Jul 28, 2015 03:44
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Readers quite often enjoy seeing the art evolve, too, as long as it's not a drastic change from one page to the next. Never hold yourself back. I don't know about tracing poser models either, that seems like it'd result in some pretty stiff-looking figures. Would love to be proved wrong on that, though.
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Jul 28, 2015 03:51
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Even stuff that you would thing would be perfectly static has changed over the years... like Garfield, or Tintin.
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Jul 28, 2015 03:54
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Seconding the posters before me. I can understand wanting to maintain consistency to some extent but if your style is changing and improving, then that's a good thing and no reader is going to look at your recent pages and be thinking "Man I really would like this comic if only it had stayed the same lovely art style it was at the beginning." And if you hate drawing that much, I really think you'd either be better off working in another storytelling format, or even just, like, doing comics *in* Poser, which isn't something I ever thought I'd suggest to anyone but if drawing pictures over and over isn't for you it might be worht a go if you still are determined to work in a visual static medium. Out of curiosity, I know you mention having taken art classes, how long have you been drawing for? Are we talking years or like decades here? I just really can't get past the idea of actively *not* wanting to improve just for the sake of consistency. I love looking even at the beginnings and ends of my own chapters to see how much progress I made within each. We're humans, not programs. edit: Oh, just to throw a small personal anecdote. I had a comic I did as a hobby in high school that was done in the super simplistic style I had at the time. The style suited the writing because it was all gag-a-day stuff. Eventually I got to where stylistically I found msyelf wanting to do new, more challenging things, and found it wasn't possible for me to do that in that comic. So the natural inclination to improve- despite not actively really *trying* to- drove me to move on from the project, rather than trying to fight myself to continue slaving at a project that wans't fulfilling to me personally anymore. sweeperbravo fucked around with this message at 04:09 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 04:06
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I love drawing. I'm just not the person who likes doodling on something for hours and hours when all I have to show for it is one drawing. I want to improve very much, I didn't say otherwise. Improvement is very much a goal. I started drawing when I was 8. I'm 32 now. I only recently (two years ago) decided to take art seriously. I've never been happier. Here's an example of the efficiency I'm referring to. I spent easily 12 hours turning this image  into this image   I have other similar drawings. I could repeat that process and slave away on each and every frame, and it would look fantastic. But the duplication of effort bothered me. I would be drawing a character over and over, so instead of that, I decided to build the model myself, and texture it... so that producing an image with that character in the future was a matter of placing the scene and grabbing a render, then working over it in Corel Painter. I'm in the middle of those classes right now, so I don't have a completed textured model to show. But the efficiency is apparent in this example of an upscaling I did using a Diablo 3 model. This was ten minutes of effort.  Other random modelling things I've done    That screengrab became this image in Corel Painter after another, what, 20 minutes. When I have the model textured (which includes color), Corel Painter will handle that for me, too.  Build up an environment and character assets initially, and you can crank out episodes of a comic very quickly, and they'll look fantastic, too. I was looking for that consistency and efficiency, I just didn't know it. I'd like to eventually animate short films. Drawings are turning out to be a pleasant byproduct. Anagram of GINGER fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Jul 28, 2015 |
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Jul 28, 2015 05:01
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I guess it just seems weird to me because you keep talking about minimizing effort and time put in, but beyond typical artists going "Man I wish this would go faster, well here's a technique I can use to speed up part of the process." You said right there in your first line that you love drawing but everything else suggest someone who says they love cooking but buys a lot of premade or microwavable dinners because that gets food on the table faster and with less effort, you know what I mean? I guess I just can't relate to what you're doing at all, Maybe someone with more digital experience can step in and say something more useful. This is probably a nitpicky question but how come with the first set of pictures you have there, why did you move Elsa's left leg over like that? Her leg looks like it's supposed to be a little bent at the knee toward us but then that means it doesn't connect to the ankle/foot correctly and as a result it looks a little off.
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Jul 28, 2015 05:23
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why did you draw a partially naked elsa
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Jul 28, 2015 05:46
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Delta Echo posted:
why
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Jul 28, 2015 05:49
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Crap posted:why did you draw a partially naked elsa Some people think lingerie is more attractive than full nudity, Crap.
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Jul 28, 2015 05:55
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the half naked frozen poser porn comic won't make itself. ...you can't make a half naked frozen poser porn comic....well you can, but you probably shouldn't. I can't tell what is happening in this thread anymore. Help.
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Jul 28, 2015 06:00
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why did you decide naked-crotch Elsa from Disney children's movie Frozen was an appropriate thing to post why would you use that as an example
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Jul 28, 2015 06:08
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Must there be another dogpile so soon? We just got done with one. Dear god, there's plenty of other things to talk about.
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Jul 28, 2015 06:08
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Scribblehatch posted:Must there be another dogpile so soon? You're just mad he stole your comic idea.
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Jul 28, 2015 06:13
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Wow I have a hard time keeping up with this thread sometimes. This is a sincere question Delta. I'm curious how poser actually works for comics. Can you provide a page from one of your comics to show how you're using the software for that?
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Jul 28, 2015 06:15
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would you go to like, a real-life gathering of artists or something, something really general, and show people your sexy elsa drawings? Like people are bringing their drawings of landscapes and life studies and poo poo and you're like "heyo check out this painting I did over a 3d model to make it look like a sexy disney character not wearing panties" while looking them dead in the eyes. That's pretty similar to what you're doing here and y'know what if that's the kind of stuff you want to do whatever, but this isn't the place to post it.
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Jul 28, 2015 06:18
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Why does crotchless Elsa have a playboy bunny tatto on her hip.
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Jul 28, 2015 06:18
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