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-Troika- posted:Well, as long as he stays dead, sure. Everybody get up in the morning, do 20 jumping jacks and denounce Stalin. If you miss a day, *sigh* that's the Internet Left For You These Days.
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Jun 14, 2015 05:14
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Fojar38 posted:Every Scandinavian I know is racist as gently caress so I dunno. And without social democracy we would all be literal nazis.
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Jun 14, 2015 09:57
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I don't really see how it matters if Russia and the West are just as bad as each other re: expansionism, client states, dirty tricks. Countries aren't people and don't have some kind of good person/bad person moral standing. People, on the other hand, matter. In Russia, they're beaten to death for being gay or foreign or dissident (encouraged and protected by a nationalist government). In 90% of the West they aren't. For a bunch of communists who are all about protecting the people, you're all very eager to dive into cycle-of-moral-high-ground-because-they-did-it-first/cycle of revenge tit-for-tat while ordinary people suffer. Also, hello FSB shills 
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Jun 14, 2015 11:51
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It's a matter of subtlety. In Russia, you're beaten for being gay. In America you become David Brooks. Whose human rights were violated? Mine, that's for sure.
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Jun 14, 2015 15:57
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I think merely deconstructing pro-western propaganda at best constitutes nabelschau, and at worst, it reproduces the notion that the problem with the west is that its insufficiently western- that the dream of progress, humanism, and universalism is too far from reality, and not actually closer to being the present nightmare. But the hegemony of western liberalism is so complete, what force could possibly generate a historical discontinuity violent enough to shake the world from its big sleep? What regime of truth could make liberal cosmopolitanism history? Only a unified front formed from the rest... quote:Seeing that clearly I, as the conscious representative of the East, make appeal to the humanity to consolidate all kinds of the alternatives and to resist the globalization and Westernization linked in it. I appeal first of all to Russians, my compatriots, inviting them to refuse pro-Western and pro-globalist corrupted elite that rules now my country and to come back to the spiritual Tradition of Russia (Orthodox Christianity and multi-ethnic Empire). At the same time I invite Islamic people and their community, as well as all other traditional societies (Chinese, Indian, Japanese and so on) to join the battle against the Globalization, Westernization and the Global Elite. The enemy is fighting with new means -- with post-modern informational weapons, financial instruments and global network. We should be able to fight them on the same ground and to appropriate the art of the network warfare. I sincerely hope that Latin Americans and also some honest North Americans enter in the same struggle against this elite, against the Post-Modernity and unipolarity for the Tradition, social solidarity and social justice. S.Huntington used to say the phrase «the West against the Rest». I identify myself with the Rest and incite it to stand up against the West. Exactly as first Eurasianists (N.S.Trubetskoy, P.N.Savitsky and other) did. quote:If some honest and brave people among North Americans want to fight the globalist elite as the last stage of the Western history, as the end of the history, please join our Eurasian troops. Our struggle is in some sense universal as universal is the globalist challenge. We have different traditions but defending them we confront the common enemy of any tradition. So we will explore where lie our respective zones of influence in the multipolar world only after our common victory over the Beast, american-atlantist-liberal-globalist-capitalist-Post-Modern Beast. quote:The other question is the structure of the possible anti-globalist and anti-imperialist front and its participants. I think that we should include in it all forces that struggle against the West, the United States, against the liberal democracy, against Modernity and Post-Modernity. The common enemy is the necessary instance for all kinds of political alliances. The Muslims, the Christians, the Russians and the Chinese, the leftists or the rightists, the Hindus or the Jews who challenge the present state of things, the globalization and the American imperialism are virtually friends ands allies. Let our ideals be different but we have in common one very strong thing: the present reality that we hate. Our ideals that differ are potential (in potentia). But the challenge we are dealing with is actual (in actu). So that is the basis for new alliance. All who share negative analysis of the globalization, westernization and post-modernization should coordinate their effort in creation of new strategy of the resistance to the omnipresent evil. And we can find the «ours» in the United States also – among those who choose the Tradition against the present decadence. quote:Politically we have here the interesting basis for conscious cooperation of the left-wingers and the right-wingers as well as with the religious or other anti-modern movements (the ecologists for example). The only thing that we insist on in creating such cooperation is to put aside anti-communist as well as antifascist prejudices. These prejudices are the instruments in the hands of liberals and globalists with which they keep their enemies divided. So we should strongly reject anticommunism as well as antifascism. Both of them are counter-revolutionary tools in the hands of the global liberal elite. At the same time we should strongly oppose any kind of the confrontation between the religions – Muslims against Christians, the Jews against Muslims, the Muslims against the Hindus and so on. The interconfessional wars and hatred work for the cause of the kingdom of Antichrist who tries to divide all the traditional religions in order to impose its own pseudo-religion, the eschatological parody. And now, the perspective of a westerner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGNuKqbU_vs Dilkington fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 00:05
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Strategic Tea posted:People, on the other hand, matter. In Russia, they're beaten to death for being gay or foreign or dissident (encouraged and protected by a nationalist government). In 90% of the West they aren't. For a bunch of communists who are all about protecting the people, you're all very eager to dive into cycle-of-moral-high-ground-because-they-did-it-first/cycle of revenge tit-for-tat while ordinary people suffer. We sort of do that over here too, we just don't publicise it quite as much. Also all the invading and shooting people is possibly bad?
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Jun 15, 2015 01:28
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Dugin's a fascist who confuses anything modern with Western. A typical error of fascists, ideology cannot be located in any specific people or geography. He doesn't have anything positive to contribute and says poo poo way worse than any American apologist. First-against-the-wall material imo.
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Jun 15, 2015 02:14
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Dilkington posted:You're welcome MD! You might also be interested in Dugin's description of the Eurasianist project, i.e. merging the right and left into a common front against western liberalism! I can't tell if you're serious or being ironic
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Jun 15, 2015 07:07
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I'm being ironic. I don't endorse fascism or Eurasian empire. I'm playacting as a reminder that the struggle against western liberalism is not exclusively a leftist project, and to suggest that contemporary leftists be wary of these kinds of alliances à la the Tudeh Party. I was also fishing to see how Dugin's offer would be received.
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Jun 15, 2015 16:19
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Dilkington posted:I'm being ironic. I don't endorse fascism or Eurasian empire. I'm playacting as a reminder that the struggle against western liberalism is not exclusively a leftist project, and to suggest that contemporary leftists be wary of these kinds of alliances à la the Tudeh Party. How much is a leftist still allowed to criticize the US without being a fascist or assisting fascists?
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Jun 15, 2015 16:26
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Hey! I know as well as you do that criticizing the US or western liberalism does not make one a fascist, nor does it mean one is colluding with fascists.
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Jun 15, 2015 17:20
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Dilkington posted:Hey! I know as well as you do that criticizing the US or western liberalism does not make one a fascist, nor does it mean one is colluding with fascists. Let's say they aren't actively working for them but it makes them a dupe of fascists? I assume any academic work that follows in the same line follows in the same vein. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 18:57
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The European's left support for Russia is less support and more oposition to the EU. Weakening the EU and by extension NATO or in other words, preventing their expansion, is why they defend Russia. This is loving stupid because even this lovely stagnated union has better life conditions than living under Russia's influence, but the "enemy of my enemy" thing is a very real factor in politics and it's hard to take anything the EU or the US does in the name of "humanitarian aid" or peace seriously, specially the since we're doing our best to make sure to ignore the thousands of people drowning in our sea while trying to convince the Ukranian government to raise electricity if they want to bang with Merkel. DeusExMachinima posted:Lowest estimate I've heard from Black Book critics is 65 mil, so eh, no biggie I guess. I'm sure you can find me similar numbers in the great post-WW2 first world famine and intellectual purges. 6500 bazillion gatillion deaths and a backwards shithole that was bombed to hell three times in 30 years and had to rebuild all by itself wasn't as decent as a place that was bailed out twice by the strongest economic powerhouse in the world after two wars that suffered comparatively minimal damage. And while every single Soviet citizen who slipped getting out of the shower and died was a consequence of intentional totalitarian Stalinist bloodlust the millions who starve to death every year in IMF-ruined countries die because that's nature way of killing the little negritos and yellow mans, there's no structural failure there at all. nevermind most of latin america, Iberia and Greece being stuck in time and space for most of the cold war because they wanted their countries to be more than a conglomerate of banana republics, Mao being BFF with the US (but still being considered a communist for that sweet kill tally), the Khmer Rouge's reign of western-backed terror only ending when a socialist army liberated the country (while suffering a sneak attack by China) or decades of murders of socialists, feminists or even moderate-liberals in Africa and the Middle East, whose main consequence was legitimizing the Islamic forces as the only good alternative or bombing the poo poo out of anti-colonialist states until they became western alligned and suddendly all their evil doings were forgiven (funny how relations between the west and Angola's MPLA went). but yeah we're totally chill here in western europe, just don't mess with banana prices or we'll put you in a civil war for thirty years. But our city centers are lovely and you should visit them sometime (hell, now that kicked most working class people to the suburbs you can basically see the beautiful centers without being bothered by the uncultured poors that lived there!). Dilkington posted:I'm being ironic. I don't endorse fascism or Eurasian empire. I'm playacting as a reminder that the struggle against western liberalism is not exclusively a leftist project, and to suggest that contemporary leftists be wary of these kinds of alliances à la the Tudeh Party.
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Jun 15, 2015 19:31
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Ryand-Smith posted:Is it wrong that all the pro communists in here make me angry because I have relatives who are begging to come to the west, and could have easily gone to Russia, both now and during the USSR, (I mean gently caress, my grandma worked in the USSR for 10 years, my uncle worked with their rocket program exchange when he was with NASA 15 years ago, I mean honestly, the USSR's science programs were literally ran by an army of alcoholic researchers who had vodka in the vending machines, their UHF tower technology would give you cancer, and the anti black racism there is worse than the US, even during the worst of the civil rights movement, but well, this is what I expect from a bunch of younger guys with no institutional memory of the Soviet Union. Sorry, its just that this thread bothered me, a lot and I needed to comment on its well, wrongness. http://www.gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/08/soviet-empire-poll_n_5288261.html http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2009/1223/Why-nearly-60-percent-of-Russians-deeply-regret-the-USSR-s-demise
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Jun 15, 2015 20:32
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Ardennes posted:Let's say they aren't actively working for them but it makes them a dupe of fascists? I assume any academic work that follows in the same line follows in the same vein. I understand your defensiveness but you're arguing with the wrong person. I don't agree that by simply criticizing the west or liberalism in general, leftists make themselves the "dupe of fascists", unless you have a ridiculously broad definition of "dupe." If that's the case, on the list of people who've inadvertently aided the rise of the right, Chomsky, Ali, and Weisbrot are somewhere below my grandma and Kanye West (West). Much more salient in my mind would be names such as Keating, Clinton, and Blair.
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Jun 15, 2015 21:17
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Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan especially were unraveled from the breakup and if anything wanted the union to stay around because it was the pretty much the only development that had happened (environment consequences and all). It isn't that the Soviet Union should be brought back, but at the same time you have to honestly weight every part of what happened and not treat it like a geopolitical Superbowl. As going after "leftists" betraying the West by criticizing liberal capitalism/liberalism (it is a broad theme in D&D), in the ends up disciplinary and while you can say policing a narrative "happens all the time in Russia or China" that isn't an actual argument to the contrary of what they are saying. I mean in the end Putin and his regime was born out of the nightmare of the 1990s in Russia, so where does all of it end? Dilkington posted:I understand your defensiveness but you're arguing with the wrong person. I don't agree that by simply criticizing the west or liberalism in general, leftists make themselves the "dupe of fascists", unless you have a ridiculously broad definition of "dupe." If that's the case, on the list of people who've inadvertently aided the rise of the right, Chomsky, Ali, and Weisbrot are somewhere below my grandma and Kanye West (West). Then in that sense your point about Dugin is unclear. Irony aside what are you trying to get at? Ardennes fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 21:20
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Ardennes posted:I mean in the end Putin and his regime was born out of the nightmare of the 1990s in Russia, so where does all of it end? Somehow getting the three big UNSC members and the EU to sit down and work out master plans for free trade / security. Eurasian economic integration is a good thing. The Middle East should be Russia/China's problem. Either that or eventually everything boils over (Middle East, South China Sea, Arctic rights).
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Jun 15, 2015 21:25
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McDowell posted:Somehow getting the three big UNSC members and the EU to sit down and work out master plans for free trade / security. Eurasian economic integration is a good thing. The Middle East should be Russia/China's problem. Either that or eventually everything boils over (Middle East, South China Sea, Arctic rights). So yeah it eventually boils over, but lets be honest here that economic integration (looking at Europe) has broken down for a reason and there isn't a past/future that Russia would be ever be allowed into a Western economic union in the first place. China is rather ify as well. In the end we are more or less of a set path from the end of the war (Nixon going to China being a major shakeup though). Ardennes fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jun 15, 2015 |
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Jun 15, 2015 21:37
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It is plausible that anti-black discrimination was worse in the USSR, I'm not familiar with the specifics. Let's say it's true. It is also actually indisputably true Good Soviet Intellectuals criticized the US's treatment of black people despite their country apparently being worse, in much the same way Americans who have to use duct tape to avoid tripping over their boners on the way to the internet to post advocacy of every American military action also love denouncing Russian aggression.
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Jun 15, 2015 21:57
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Tezzor posted:It is plausible that anti-black discrimination was worse in the USSR, I'm not familiar with the specifics. Let's say it's true. It is also actually indisputably true Good Soviet Intellectuals criticized the US's treatment of black people despite their country apparently being worse, in much the same way Americans who have to use duct tape to avoid tripping over their boners on the way to the internet to post advocacy of every American military action also love denouncing Russian aggression. This is why calling "tu quoque" is always a matter of who decided to shout it first. That said, geopolitics is a cynical game and we got a bit too use to just having a single player on the board. Just because I am pedant about history I think civil rights/human rights in general as better example for what you are trying to say.
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Jun 15, 2015 22:12
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Ardennes posted:Then in that sense your point about Dugin is unclear. Irony aside what are you trying to get at? Dilkington posted:...a reminder that the struggle against western liberalism is not exclusively a leftist project, and to suggest that contemporary leftists be wary of these kinds of alliances à la the Tudeh Party. I take Dugin's offer seriously because I know other leftists who take it seriously- people who relate to Syria and Crimea not merely as opportunities to point out western hypocrisy, but frontlines in an ideological war whose geography is defined as much by reactionary state media as it is by tankie newsletters. The most galling example that comes to mind is how in certain circles the state media sleight of hand regarding the Crimean referendum was reproduced perfectly. People were citing the presence of observers as legitimizing the referendum, while neglecting to ask why there was so little candor regarding who the observers were, then denying that that the observers were who people said they were, and then saying "remember Kosovo?" This was an instance where "remember Kosovo" did not suffice. This was not a case of a college republican calling Blum a traitor because he had the temerity to put stuff that actually happened in a book- this was ostensibly leftist people literally colluding with fascists- legitimizing them, covering for them, and participating in their propaganda. My earliest worries about this came as a result of Israel Shamir coming back into prominence, first due to wikileaks, and then due to the Crimean crisis. Here's a man who years previously had been rightfully drummed out of the Palestinian activist community- any relationship between him and wikileaks and the left couldn't end soon enough. I thought "will anyone make the mistake of defending him, perhaps out of a misplaced sense of solidarity? That would be embarrassing for that person." As it turned out many people defended Israel Shamir, and I found myself being asked a lot if I needed reminding what the US had done to Fallujah (I in fact didn't need reminding). Regarding Ukraine- I'm sure someone has shared with you something Shamir wrote on CounterPunch. He's a fixture in discussions on Syria and Ukraine, and I think that's unfortunate. In short, I wanted to counter the impression this thread may or may not make on some people: that leftists must choose between "the West" and "the rest;" reactionaries like Dugin and Shamir count on those being your only options. 
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Jun 16, 2015 01:02
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Dilkington posted:When I talk about the Tudeh Party of Iran, I mean it as an example of a leftist party which formed an alliance of convenience with reactionaries (contra other leftist groups), with the idea that when the time came, they would put their erstwhile allies against the wall. The opposite happened. I put that forward as a cautionary tale for people not familiar with the party or with Ehsan Tabari. In that sense, I agree, but at the same time even as a champion of a "non-aligned" position, I have to say it is fundamentally an unstable one. What is the dividing line of going too far and how do you defend yourself on both fronts? An alliance with Dugin or right-wing populists is allying yourself in the wrong direction, but let's also be honest here there is going to be a lot of pressure from the "Western" side as well. One thing I am surprised about is how many center-leftists/liberals become far more interventionist when you bring up bombing the right region under the right-circumstance, and you may find yourself rather lonely even among people on the "left." Of course, even in the West, there is still a "radical left" with hard positions of their own and they don't brook disagreement either. In many ways, it is easier to pick a team and just attempt to batter the other side into submission, certainly less stressful as well. That or become apolitical. Granted, it is unclear how much of what I said doesn't apply to the right as well either. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jun 16, 2015 |
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Jun 16, 2015 01:26
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If the Arctic Circle Meridian has something like this happening in 2100 my grave could say 'Mission Accomplished' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ0ue-XGl9c
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Jun 16, 2015 01:55
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the western propaganda machine is working overtime friends. today, western media is saying that isis has crucified 2 children for eating food at ramadan when they weren't supposed to. this is a picture they say is it.  this picture is actually a year old, but that doesn't stop western media from using it to manipulate the masses. here's an article on it from july TWO THOUSAND FOURTEEN quote:At least they had it better than this kid. http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/07/the-joy-of-isis-more-public-beatings-during-the-day-hours/ heres the actual photos of the "crucifixions" the media doesnt want you to see  https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CILBK8iWoAAKhC4.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CIRPiQqXAAANj9g.jpg i wish i could say this was all that the corporate media had fed to the sheeple today, but we all know this isn't true. quote:crucify http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/crucify there is no nails in any of these pictures, and all of the people are alive, but the lamestream uses the word crucify to scare people and have them not get mad when the us starts an unjust false flag war with isis. and of course it is working just like it was suppose to because everyone is busy watching the kardashians to ask questions. dark days ahead. stay safe everyone. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jun 26, 2015 |
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Jun 26, 2015 01:20
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blowfish posted:
If you're gonna call him Chomsky you could at least acknowledge the response Chomsky always gives to this criticism: he is a citizen of the U.S. and he feels his primary duty lies in criticizing his own government.
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Jun 26, 2015 01:38
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Ocean Book posted:If you're gonna call him Chomsky you could at least acknowledge the response Chomsky always gives to this criticism: he is a citizen of the U.S. and he feels his primary duty lies in criticizing his own government. And that response is stupid as gently caress if you actually stop to think about it for 5 minutes.
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Jun 26, 2015 02:40
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I stopped to think about it for six minutes, so I realized it's actually a great response.Ocean Book posted:If you're gonna call him Chomsky you could at least acknowledge the response Chomsky always gives to this criticism: he is a citizen of the U.S. and he feels his primary duty lies in criticizing his own government. Nobody who assumes that criticizing one's own government does not equal praising another one will never, ever be able to understand this.
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Jun 26, 2015 03:54
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SedanChair posted:I stopped to think about it for six minutes, so I realized it's actually a great response. Chomsky was literally a member of the US military-industrial complex face it he'll take the money for his research if it's on the table
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Jun 26, 2015 04:15
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Volkerball posted:the western propaganda machine is working overtime friends. today, western media is saying that isis has crucified 2 children for eating food at ramadan when they weren't supposed to. this is a picture they say is it. I think it's a testament to D&D that I actually can't tell if this is suppose to be ironic or not
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Jun 26, 2015 04:36
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Typo posted:I think it's a testament to D&D that I actually can't tell if this is suppose to be ironic or not Most of the extreme LF people got run off the site, but there are still a few around.
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Jun 26, 2015 06:14
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Typo posted:I think it's a testament to D&D that I actually can't tell if this is suppose to be ironic or not It's ironic (although he probably is sincerely annoyed by the sloppy journalism); Volkerball is actually pretty hawkish.
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Jun 26, 2015 06:23
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For what it's worth, Dilkington's initial post in this thread did inspire me to acquire a hard copy of The Fourth Political Theory by Alexander Dugin, and I have since read the book in its entirety. I find Dugin to be a very interesting and compelling thinker and writer, and it is no surprise to me why so many people are afraid of him. I'm now in the process of reading Revolt Against the Modern World by Julius Evola, and one of the reasons why I'm now reading this book is because Alexander Dugin is an Evola fan. But don't worry, I did try to balance things out a bit by reading The Antonio Gramsci Reader: Selected Writings 1916-1935 in its entirety after finishing The Fourth Political Theory and before starting to read Revolt Against the Modern World. I've attached an Ideological Reading Material Selfie! I prefer reading books over having friends!
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Jul 8, 2015 23:57
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What exactly do you find compelling/interesting?
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Jul 9, 2015 00:09
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rudatron posted:What exactly do you find compelling/interesting? Dugin's invitation for left-wing and right-wing forces to join together to fight against liberalism and U.S./NATO world domination seems pretty enticing to me, personally. But I don't really feel too optimistic about this possibility myself. Here in the U.S., it does seem that far-left groups like the Workers World Party and far-right groups like the American Freedom Party often embrace extremely similar if not identical positions when it comes to international affairs and U.S./NATO foreign policy. But, alas, it doesn't seem likely to me that supporters of these different groups will ever want to work together because the far-left folks probably won't want to shut up about how much they love gay people while the far-right folks probably won't want to shut up about how much they hate black people. I will be very interested, however, in keeping track of the "Duginist" groups that have sprung up in the U.S. and the U.K. Namely, New Resistance (http://openrevolt.info/) & the National People's Party (http://nationalpeoplesparty.org.uk/). Edit: Oh, and by the way, I actually dreamt last night that I was attending a lecture by Alexander Dugin. After the lecture ended, I tried to approach Dugin in order to see if he would be willing to pose for a selfie with me. But I failed in this endeavor because Dugin was surrounded by lots of other people. So, congratulations, Dilkington! You've successfully influenced the realm of my dreams! Math Debater fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 02:56
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Other than being anti-globalist and anti-American, what specifically would Dugin be offering to 'the left'? Probably not much, given the left is so weak that it has basically nothing to offer him in return, but I'm curious because Dugin likes to present himself as offering a new political theory that transcends old categories when really he seems like a garden variety conservative nationalist. He talks vaguely about the end of capitalism but what does that mean? Even his attacks on the "financial oligarchy" don't sound notably different than the standard right wing nationalist narrative about Jews.
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Jul 9, 2015 03:56
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I think that shows a lack of understanding both the far-left and far-right, and in particular, what Dugin is doing. Dugin is trying to recruit people into the far-right, and he's appropriated some leftist language. That's it. It only works on a surface level because the assumptions behind the language he's using, and the goal he's working towards, conflict. In Dugin's fantasy land, he gets the left to overthrow the liberals using some confounding language, and then he stabs the left in the back:quote:In conclusion, we can conduct an analysis of the middle class in the context of the Fourth Political Theory. This theory is built on the imperative of overcoming modernity and all three political ideologies in order (the order has tremendous significance): (1) liberalism, (2) communism, (3) nationalism (fascism). He may try and present his ideas as something new and unique, but they're not. Compare this with stuff like dork enlightenment (which there is also a thread on): quote:Thus, today, when the agony of this worst of possible social arrangements still continues, you must look beyond capitalism. At the same time, we must value and take interest in both what preceded it, the Middle Ages, and in that which will come after it and that which we must create—a New Middle Ages. edit: if that's not convincing, here's a really good take on it: http://crookedtimber.org/2015/03/10/who-is-aleksandr-dugin/ rudatron fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Jul 9, 2015 |
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Jul 9, 2015 03:57
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Alexander Dugin is basically Russian Michael Moore. He's about as credible too.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:16
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rudatron posted:I think that shows a lack of understanding both the far-left and far-right, and in particular, what Dugin is doing. Dugin is trying to recruit people into the far-right, and he's appropriated some leftist language. That's it. It only works on a surface level because the assumptions behind the language he's using, and the goal he's working towards, conflict. In Dugin's fantasy land, he gets the left to overthrow the liberals using some confounding language, and then he stabs the left in the back: rudatron, it just so happens that I actually read the article you've linked to earlier today while I was searching the Internet for more perspectives on Dugin! Yeah, that article and everything you're saying here sound pretty true and accurate to me. And Helsing's post about the weakness of the left and Dugin's status as a garden variety conservative nationalist sounds pretty true and accurate to me too. I'm an idiot who doesn't really have any sincere belief in any kind of ideological principles, and I just like to root against America because I hate myself for being a privileged American who benefits from U.S./NATO world domination. I salute anyone who is working to undermine and damage the U.S. empire, and I think a painful and humiliating future for myself and for all Americans would be a fair and just future.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:32
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quote:Edit: Oh, and by the way, I actually dreamt last night that I was attending a lecture by Alexander Dugin. After the lecture ended, I tried to approach Dugin in order to see if he would be willing to pose for a selfie with me. But I failed in this endeavor because Dugin was surrounded by lots of other people. So, congratulations, Dilkington! You've successfully influenced the realm of my dreams! Flattered. I have to ask- among the faces crowding around Dugin, did you see David Duke?  I'll admit Math Debater, Fascist Romanticism can sometimes be seductive, as it is in Mishima's Runaway Horses, or D'Annunzio's Notturno. However, the mask slips a bit when you read Savitri Devi, Evola, Spengler, Serrano i.e. the "mystical" works most influential with Neo-Fascists, which border on outsider art. The philosophically and aesthetically sophisticated pre-war Fascism long ago gave way to Neo-Fascist apoliteia and slavish Hitler cults, made up of people who've never heard of the "Zweites Buch." Leftists have a lot to complain about regarding the power and organization of the left, but the ideas are there; Neo-Fascism is basically Scientology. I've kind of led this thread off track so in deference to PleasureKevin, let me just recommend some "Fascism 101" reading and be done with it: Fascism by Roger Griffin The Anatomy of Fascism by Robert O. Paxton The Birth of Fascist Ideology: From Cultural Rebellion to Political Revolution by Zeev Sternhell Math Debater posted:Yeah, that article and everything you're saying here sound pretty true and accurate to me. And Helsing's post about the weakness of the left and Dugin's status as a garden variety conservative nationalist sounds pretty true and accurate to me too. I'm an idiot who doesn't really have any sincere belief in any kind of ideological principles, and I just like to root against America because I hate myself for being a privileged American who benefits from U.S./NATO world domination. I salute anyone who is working to undermine and damage the U.S. empire, and I think a painful and humiliating future for myself and for all Americans would be a fair and just future. Irresolute, self-hating and an yearning towards justice? Friend, might I interest you in Judaism? I don't have to pay temple dues for 3 months when I get somebody in.
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Jul 9, 2015 04:53
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Dilkington posted:Flattered. I have to ask- among the faces crowding around Dugin, did you see David Duke? Thanks for the book recommendations about fascism, Dilkington! I think I get what you're saying about "mystical" fascist literature. I've read the first 12 chapters of Revolt Against the Modern World by Evola thus far, and I feel inclined to want to dismiss the work as "the well-constructed yet totally irrelevant lamentation narrative of a sad aristocrat who is sad about the decline of aristocracy". I'm going to keep reading it though, because it is interesting to me and I feel like it's expanding my consciousness. Judaism, eh? I thought Judaism was a non-proselytizing religion and I thought converts to Judaism generally weren't welcome. I honestly don't see myself wanting to become a Jew in the future. But thanks for the suggestion!
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Jul 9, 2015 05:14
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