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Waffleman_ posted:Star Platinum is out here doing whatever the gently caress it wants and no one minds.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:17
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King Crimson is a problem because it means the drama is undermined due to how ill-defined the power is and the inconsistency in its effects. When it does something new the reaction is, "Oh, I guess he could do that?" or "Wait, that contradicts like two other scenes" which is bad imo
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Apr 28, 2019 04:18
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TheLoneStar posted:And it's still debated to this day if it having time stop powers is an asspull or not. I can settle this: it is
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Apr 28, 2019 04:19
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Okuyasu Nijimura posted:I feel like I'll just sound like an rear end in a top hat if I say it out of nowhere in the anime thread but as always I'm bewildered by the fact that a general discussion about how a stand works (which often does involve a good degree of 'listen it just loving does somehow') often veers into people who seem really petulant or upset if a stand doesn't fully make sense I feel like Araki more goes for the symbolism behind a Stand's power (if it's an important character, anyway) and the different emotions that a scene carries, but nerd culture today is so used to things like Cinema Sins or TV Tropes or just having an easily consumable thing you can list on a fan wiki, and the way Araki writes just doesn't mesh well with that. Like after awhile there will be some people who will be inoculated and be like, "It's Stands, I Don't Gotta Explain poo poo," but others don't. I don't want to call it a form of media illiteracy because that sounds mean and I'm not sure if that's what it is exactly, but at the same time there are so much more interesting things to talk about with the series. Like working out how a Stand works bores me to yawning, but some people find it interesting I guess.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:19
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In conclusion, Golden Wind is a land of contrasts, or as the Italians call it, Buca di Beppo.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:21
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Diavolo is loving awful and King Crimson is annoying and the anime really hasn't changed my mind on this.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:21
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people are really addicted to doing the thing where they're trying to game theory how king crimson Actually Works which tells me they've somehow not paid attention throughout this entire series where you shouldn't really sweat the small stuff because it can't and won't 'make sense' if you're dedicated to trying to make something inherently wildly unrealistic seem realistic
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Apr 28, 2019 04:24
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BaDandy posted:I feel like Araki more goes for the symbolism behind a Stand's power (if it's an important character, anyway) and the different emotions that a scene carries, but nerd culture today is so used to things like Cinema Sins or TV Tropes or just having an easily consumable thing you can list on a fan wiki, and the way Araki writes just doesn't mesh well with that. Johnny Joestar posted:people are really addicted to doing the thing where they're trying to game theory how king crimson Actually Works which tells me they've somehow not paid attention throughout this entire series where you shouldn't really sweat the small stuff because it can't and won't 'make sense' if you're dedicated to trying to make something inherently wildly unrealistic seem realistic Nah, miss me with this. JoJo cheats all the drat time and I don't care, there's a reason Araki Forgot is a quasi-meme that most people just laugh about and move on with, the problem with KC is that its power is so theoretically simple yet totally overpowered that the refusal to nail down any kind of ruleset to it becomes kind of exhausting.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:24
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And gently caress, you don't even get a good fight at the end out of it like DIO or Kira or Pucci (okay maybe not Pucci, that kinda peaked with C-Moon), the Colosseum stuff is just so lovely
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Apr 28, 2019 04:27
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Honestly, after the Doppio and Nero fight, I like just Epitaph alone more than King Crimson as a whole.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:27
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king crimson is more just a tool to move the plot along and to represent diavolo as a whole, which is why it kind of sucks thematically compared to any other villain stand it looks neat as poo poo and in theory the power should be cool but it's never put to good use
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Apr 28, 2019 04:29
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It's also funny to go right from one of the most fleshed out and engaging antagonists in the series to one who basically has no character by design.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:37
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Everything about Diavolo being vague, contradictory, and just straight nonsensical is all well and good for his character of "NO ONE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT MEEEEEEEEEEEE" but it really does just result in a big wet fart of a Final Boss more than anything else. Especially compared to what came before him and what comes after.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:39
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diavolo's entire character is an rear end pull I'm certain araki hadn't thought of what diavolo was going to be like before he got to the reveal, then poo poo him out in a moment of last minute panic
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Apr 28, 2019 04:39
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Doppio is a good boy though and I'm glad he's getting respect.
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Apr 28, 2019 04:41
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I wonder if you have to include Doppio when it comes to appreciating JoJo villains because he seems like a huge piece of that puzzle to me. 
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Apr 28, 2019 04:45
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The whole "Erasing time" thing is really just a product of what we've come to expect, and what comes after in the series. The time powers we saw before this were very straightforward. DIO stops time, everything freezes. Kira goes back to the previous day, like he pressed the "Skip to Previous" button. Pucci speeds time up and Ringo Roadagain reversed time. It's just that since we're expecting it to work within that frame of reference it ends up not making a whole lotta sense in context. The anime has cleared up at least some of the stuff (Buccelati did not die in the erased time, he's just alive because he is) but I don't think it'll end up making it totally cohesive. On another note, does anyone know if the Japanese fandom has this sorta problem understanding King Crimson, or are they just so beyond that they don't care? edit: What I'm saying is if it was just billed as "Erasing events" (plot points, like was suggested in the anime thread) I don't think there'd be nearly as much confusion, everyone is just so focused on the time aspect. Momomo fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 04:45
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Also it pretty much acts consistently from now on. I like King Crimson and Diavolo and found the anime has made me more fond of them.
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Apr 28, 2019 05:10
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Funky Valentine posted:Diavolo is loving awful and King Crimson is annoying and the anime really hasn't changed my mind on this. Edit: also I just explain King Crimson as the photoshop of time: you can edit a small part of time as you want. Like d4c is just copy from another universe/paste here the stand. Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 06:04 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 05:51
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King Crimson makes enough sense. It's the early poo poo with Epitaph and Bruno that muddies the pot. People over think it more than they really need to. It absolutely does what it needs to do whenever it needs to but this bullet thing is extremely straight forward and simple. A lot of it is to fit it into the catalogue of time powers too where, yeah, they are time powers, but they're not what they're advertised as. Bites The Dust isn't really going back "in time", it's jumping back to alternate timelines to basically edit it to be the timeline you want while saving your results. So if Kira had known he had a full sweep that time he got Jotaro, Josuke etc, he could have just hung back and then used that as his perfect save and made that his new timeline innit. But going back in time is a lot easier to say than the actual mechanics of BTD. Josuke Higashikata fucked around with this message at 06:25 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 06:21
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RatHat posted:The dead/alive gauge is amazing. Watch 6-8 weeks from now when those will be in the actual OP once they've been introduced Thoth's predictions are 💯% Accurate
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Apr 28, 2019 06:29
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Kaiser Mazoku posted:reanimate the whole series in oingo boingo style
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Apr 28, 2019 06:31
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Johnny Joestar posted:people are really addicted to doing the thing where they're trying to game theory how king crimson Actually Works which tells me they've somehow not paid attention throughout this entire series where you shouldn't really sweat the small stuff because it can't and won't 'make sense' if you're dedicated to trying to make something inherently wildly unrealistic seem realistic I don't think this is an entirely fair portrayal of peoples misgivings with with King Crimson. Stands with definied and somewhat consistent power have been important in JoJo because that is where Araki's smartest writing and most staisfying conclusions come from: Hayato tricking Kira into revealing his own name and nullfying Bites The Dust, Jolyne turning herself into a mobius strip to avoid being imploded, Weather Report saturating the air with oxygen to turn Pucci's time accelation against him, Johnny using the unloaded revolver to reveal Valentine's planned betrayal, they all come from the Stands involved having previously established rules which can be exploited and defeated, they're still thematically appropriate Stands for their users but tying into the themes of the story and doing something which actually makes sense with rules governing its use isn't an either/or proposition. And the weakness of this writing directly leads into the infamously bad ending, both the protagonist and the antagonist have extremely open ended Stands that can do pretty much whatever Araki's wants for any given scene so the entire battle has to hinge on them just fighting over who gets to control the item that gives them the very last word in doing whatever the gently caress they want. There's absolutely no space for clever reversals or galaxy brain exploits of Diavolo's Stand because it seems to work differently in nearly every scene its in and there's never anything that could used as a vulnerability or a shortcoming for the gang to use against it.
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Apr 28, 2019 11:40
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Diavolo isn't really much of a character honestly. Doppio's gimmick is cute, but the boss as a whole is much more interesting to analyze as a concept than a character I could ever find cool or likeable even in his hatableness.
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Apr 28, 2019 15:13
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multijoe posted:I don't think this is an entirely fair portrayal of peoples misgivings with with King Crimson. Stands with definied and somewhat consistent power have been important in JoJo because that is where Araki's smartest writing and most staisfying conclusions come from: Hayato tricking Kira into revealing his own name and nullfying Bites The Dust, Jolyne turning herself into a mobius strip to avoid being imploded, Weather Report saturating the air with oxygen to turn Pucci's time accelation against him, Johnny using the unloaded revolver to reveal Valentine's planned betrayal, they all come from the Stands involved having previously established rules which can be exploited and defeated, they're still thematically appropriate Stands for their users but tying into the themes of the story and doing something which actually makes sense with rules governing its use isn't an either/or proposition. I seriously don't see how King Crimson is galaxy brained or get a sense it works differently in every scene.
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Apr 28, 2019 19:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFCBqf6PkUU
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Apr 28, 2019 19:48
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MonsterEnvy posted:I seriously don't see how King Crimson is galaxy brained or get a sense it works differently in every scene. Nah, I'm saying no one gets to pull any galaxy brain bullshit against it, its ability just let's it win any scene its in and the details don't really matter. Like, can Diavolo interact with the physical world when it's up? It varies. Do people continue taking actions during erased time and just forget them or do they veg out for a pseudo-time stop effect? Also varies. Because King Crimson's exact function and shortcomings are never pinned down its never really explored how the gang could have even tried to beat it in a straight fight, the only person who even tries is Polnareff and that's pretty much a throwaway scene just so he doesn't go out like a complete chump. The fandom really did nail first time round with 'It just works'. No Dignity fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Apr 28, 2019 |
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Apr 28, 2019 20:19
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i like it when one character attacks another and the other goes "BWAAAAAMP" and the colors go weird and suddenly things are not as they were ten seconds ago and then everyone has to start operating on three million IQ
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Apr 28, 2019 20:22
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multijoe posted:Nah, I'm saying no one gets to pull any galaxy brain bullshit against it, its ability just let's it win any scene its in and the details don't really matter. Like, can Diavolo interact with the physical world when it's up? It varies. Do people continue taking actions during erased time and just forget them or do they veg out for a pseudo-time stop effect? Also varies. A) it’s up to the boss probably B) they do what they’re in the process of doing, if not then they just veg out like that
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Apr 28, 2019 23:43
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i just want a part 6 anime
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Apr 28, 2019 23:45
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Johnny Joestar posted:i just want a part 7 anime I want to see the president.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:10
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at the absolute least i want to be able to see jolyne lighting herself on fire
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Apr 29, 2019 00:12
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I'm just worried about JoJolion being ready for an anime when Steel Ball Run ends.
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Apr 29, 2019 00:13
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Johnny Joestar posted:people are really addicted to doing the thing where they're trying to game theory how king crimson Actually Works which tells me they've somehow not paid attention throughout this entire series where you shouldn't really sweat the small stuff because it can't and won't 'make sense' if you're dedicated to trying to make something inherently wildly unrealistic seem realistic I blame youtube for giving people the impression that everything, absolutely everything, has to be dissected in a weird way which leads to frustrating discussions in which people inexpertly discuss their problems with "tropes" and "plot holes" and feel a bizarre need to make their viewpoint sound pseudo-intellectual instead of just saying "it's weird how this happens, I liked this, huh I hate this, anyway"
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Apr 29, 2019 01:17
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Yeah people actually interrogating their responses to things and trying to articulate an opinion beyond a surface level sure is annoying
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Apr 29, 2019 01:28
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I mean, if we're talking about the type of people who browse TVTropes too much and think they're intelligent because of it, then I agree wholeheartedly that they're tiring to talk to.
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Apr 29, 2019 02:43
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TheLoneStar posted:I'm just worried about JoJolion being ready for an anime when Steel Ball Run ends. Me when Jojolion finally ends: "I'm 89 years old?"
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Apr 29, 2019 02:51
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Lamebot posted:Araki when Jojolion finally ends: "I'm 189 years old?"
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Apr 29, 2019 03:03
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Bold of you to assume Araki's age is only in the triple digits.
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Apr 29, 2019 03:04
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I absolutely see a Part 6 anime in 2021 or 2022. I do not see a Part 7 anime any time really. I can see them both doing it later or just not at all. Part 6 is the end of the "DIO Saga" and realistically I think that's a fine place to take a break for a few years
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Apr 29, 2019 03:07
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