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Goddamn the dialogue in this game is so bad it makes me angry. "Pick an option that has no impact on how the conversation will progress" or "Pick a Charisma option that gives you a tiny amount of XP but will also have no impact on how the conversation will progress"
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Dec 26, 2017 17:31
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I remember the BoS being really reasonable in New Vegas, but wasn't that the "yeah our mandate is to collect tech and help the locals" chapter? I do know that I never wanted to harm them, but the BoS in F4 I had no problem turning on.
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Dec 27, 2017 00:08
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Fallout 4: Two goons huddle in the ruins of the thread and discuss lore Right, but the banishment happened under Elijah, who was clearly a) old-testament levels of gently caress Everyone Only Technology Will Save us, b) batshit crazy and (in my universe, at least) c) died buried alive under the Sierra Madre due to his obsession and hubris. I can't remember if post-Elijah leadership was less psychopathically murderous, but I think that's why I need to play NV, again. That's the only thing truly good that really comes out of F4 -- it makes people want to replay New Vegas.
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Dec 27, 2017 01:13
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So, basically, 21st century American politics ...
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Dec 27, 2017 04:36
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Ensign Expendable posted:You can ferry settlers between settlements? I think you just select them in Workshop Mode and you can tell them "Move" ... though I can't get Preston or Sturges out of Sanctuary.
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Dec 28, 2017 00:52
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osirisisdead posted:I want to build a suit where I replace the fists with deathclaw hands. That is possible, right? It disturbs me to say you have a better chance of finding a mod that will replace power armor fists with giant wobbly boobs. EDIT for content: Did they ever definitively say what the Institute was doing with their abductees? All I remember is them glossing over it (probably so they could make the Institute slightly less reprehensible). null_pointer fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 29, 2017 |
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Dec 29, 2017 20:11
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Berke Negri posted:Turning them into super mutants. I know they have an FEV lab, and Virgil was mutated due to loving up (?) when doing his work, but I never found anything saying "yeah, we're abducting people to use them as FEV guinea pigs". Not saying it didn't happen, but I can't find anything supporting that.
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Dec 30, 2017 00:28
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Finally got to the point where I could destroy the Institute and god drat there is no reason why I had to keep stringing Father along before doing that. In New Vegas, if you could make it to the the BOS' reactor terminal, you could blow up their base, any time you wanted. Why did I have to keep enabling the Institute for 5 or 6 missions before finally blowing them up? Still, it felt pretty good to tell Father "Yeah, I'm here to blow up your reactor" while leaning over him on his deathbed, decked out in X-01 power armor. Then I shot him, because, hey, if you're gonna kill your son, at least be a man about it.
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Dec 30, 2017 16:39
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Right, but the Boston Brotherhood chapter is almost as bad as the Institute. Both of them are the slightly different varieties of "gently caress you, pleb, you can't have any technology even though it would clearly improve everyone's life". I don't care about the BoS' anti-mutant stance, but when you lump in self-aware synths who just want to escape and live a normal life ... yeah, I'm blowing your poo poo up. My point, which I didn't make very well, is that the Institute is abducting people, replacing them with synths, and actively "reclaiming" any synths that become self-aware. They're exactly the sort of faction that I want to gently caress over. I just don't get why, in order to lead a synth rebellion, I have to keep on doing Institute missions; an option to jump right to the "free the synths" mission without having to do all the "continue to assist Father" ones seems like a no-brainer. EDIT: I think my largest gripe with the game, which sort of encompasses why I find the dialogue so bad, is that there's no option to really change the path of any of the factions. In New Vegas, the BoS chapter, there, was the same sort of xenophobic trash, but you had the opportunity to bring a more moderate faction into power. You could convince House that the BoS and NCR weren't threats. There were opportunities to change peoples' minds, but there's none of that in F4. Every faction is the way they are, with no possibility of altering their course. null_pointer fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Dec 30, 2017 |
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Dec 30, 2017 19:11
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Well, paint me red and slap me up on the barn ... I just finished the Mechanist DLC and it was actually ... quite charming. Just a trifle, mind you, but I loved that I had a way to finish the boss fight in a completely non-violent way. It was self-contained and not at all high-stakes, but finishing it felt pretty satisfying.
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Dec 31, 2017 03:15
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I mean, nothing will ever top every appliance in The Sink cheering you on, at the end of Old World Blues, but, yeah -- the fight and the dialogue and the ultimate resolution was surprisingly refreshing!
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Dec 31, 2017 03:36
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Funny, I was thinking about something like that, yesterday. There had to have been tons of Fallout fans working on F4. Dudes who played the whole series and really understood what made the series what it was. I'm trying to think how a group like that could have gone so loving far astray unless it was from publisher meddling. Then, again, if we grabbed ten random Fallout super-fans and had them collaborate on a script for Fallout 5, we'd probably end up with a pile of poo poo .. or the No Mutants Allowed forums. I wonder if we could get Josh Sawyer from Obsidian to make a wager on the various factors that might have contributed to F4 going off the rails, so badly. It would probably be equal parts "most people don't really understand what makes a good Fallout game", "the publisher rushed them", and "the writers were incompetent". I've got New Vegas loaded up, but I'm hesitating to start it, as I always play the same character: the goody-two-shoes seeking justice for the oppressed schtick. I've tried playing sympathetic to House or the Legion, but I just can't get over how corrupt and/or evil they are -- as flawed as the NCR are, I end up seeing them as the only feasible way forward. Any ideas for a new playthrough?
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Dec 31, 2017 15:57
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Kaiju Cage Match posted:Do a playthrough of a libertarian who thinks the Legion, House, and NCR are violating the non-aggression principle, as the entire Mojave is your property (they just don't know it yet). How would my character rectify this? I'm guessing that I can't take up arms and tell them "git offa mah lawn", given the whole, you know, non-aggression thing.
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Dec 31, 2017 16:01
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With regards to New Vegas: doesn't House basically say that every faction must die if Vegas is to remain independent? I know that he wants the Dam under his control, in order to have a reliable energy source, which means that the NCR have gotta go. At that point, I was all "okay, gently caress you, House" because if the NCR's unforgiveable sin is wanting to protect the Dam from the Legion, then I'm clearly dealing with a megolomaniac. It's hazy in my mind, but I think you can convince him that the Boomers and/or Brotherhood aren't a threat (and, as mentioned, you can instill a more moderate leader at the head of the BoS, making them a lot more humanitarian). But when it comes to the NCR, he seems to believe that it's Us or Them, in which case, sorry buddy -- you have a rockin' casino, but when it comes to the future of civilization, keeping the Legion at bay is more important than slot machines and hookers. If anything, my biggest, most consistent pet peeve with F4 is that there's no room for co-existence. No matter who you choose to side with, everyone else has gotta go. Yeah, the Minutemen are the sole exception, but that's because their mandate is so narrow; and even then, if you side with the Institute, you can guarantee that eventually they're going to get infiltrated and squeezed out. In all other cases, every faction demands the extermination of every other faction. Fallout 4 has exactly zero nuance or subtlety, with no room for diplomacy.
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Dec 31, 2017 18:41
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Fair enough. I had totally forgotten that Beth is big enough to self-publish, so I guess it really comes down to them being a company that simply doesn't understand what it takes to tell a good story. Great at visual world-building and creating a fun sandbox to gently caress around it, but I got all that plus a compelling story with NV. But, I keep thinking there must have been some group of dudes at Bethesda saying "look, what we're doing isn't Fallout -- we can do better" ... ... buuuuut, having working in corporate for ten years, I could see those dudes getting ignored and told "that isn't our design philosophy for this game -- get in line, or get out"
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Dec 31, 2017 18:47
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Wolfsheim posted:You're misremembering, House actually wants the NCR stable so they can continue to fund him. He (rightly) argues that their continued expansion will end up being their slow demise, with factions like the Legion chipping away at them. It's the BoS he has a 'blow them up, no exceptions' deal with, and the BoS isn't doing gently caress all to advance civilization. Yup. Okay, I need to stop pontificating on New Vegas until I get back and do another playthrough. I still can't think of a way to play that isn't a neutral good character, though, and I've done several of those. I'm half-jokingly thinking about doing the libertarian / randroid playthrough -- how would they react to finding a Legion slave camp?
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Dec 31, 2017 21:42
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Feh. I make motion to rename the thread General Fallout Discussion or something similar.
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Dec 31, 2017 23:47
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I still have fond memories of the summer of 2000 when I quit my lovely job working customer service and spent the summer playing Fallout: Tactics. I know it's not a good game, and not canon, but goddammit I enjoyed it. I'm trying to think if there are any moments in F4 that approach the level of Caesar's Legion actually having more depth than "rapacious band of slavers". There was one moment when I found out the Railroad had did a catch-and-release on a synth who became a murderous Raider boss, but I don't know if I ever had the opportunity to confront the Railroad about it. I mean, poo poo, even Caesar calls Legate Lanius, his nominal successor, a "butcher".
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Dec 31, 2017 23:55
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Which points out the big difference between NV and 4; the factions actually had plans. The factions were going somewhere and the fate of the Mojave would be very different depending on which factions you worked with. Their plans all conflicted. 4 is just like "well there are synthetic people and stuff. I guess the Institute makes them and those guys are kind of jerks. The Railroad helps them and stuff, you know? Also this is a Fallout game so the Brotherhood shows up because reasons." ... The Commonwealth doesn't really change all that much; about the only major decision you can make is if you fill it with normal settlers and have them generate stuff for you or fill it with raiders and have them generate stuff for you. This is probably the most salient critique of Fallout 4 I've read, yet. Kudos.
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Jan 1, 2018 00:21
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The Lone Badger posted:The Chip was made for the post-apocalypse. House knew war was coming, that's why he had a private army of robots built. I think the point still stands: House has proved himself to be preturnaturally good at playing the long game / being a narrowly-focused administrator. But what kind of leader would be be ON THE MOOOOOOOON? The NCR and Legion are well-defined; if they win, you're going to have more of what they already are. But House has been obsessively focused on a single set of goals: protect Vegas' independence, by any means necessary. What kind of leader would he be if given a blank slate? What kind of society would he foster? I don't know if a hands-off hypercapitalist state would work when trying to set up a lunar colony. Basically, I agree with the point that we have no idea what kind of person House really would be if taken out of the confines of the Vegas strip. Going full-on megalomaniac isn't that much of a stretch. He stays reasonable because being a despot would be bad for business. When he's the only business in town? Dunno, man. On a side note, maybe I'll try a Yes Man run, this time ... can you peacefully coexist with other factions, that way?
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Jan 1, 2018 16:11
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Is there any benefit to having a shitload of settlements unlocked in F4? Like, what was the point? It's not like having a ton of them give you more of anything, does it? I mean, if I could loving get Supply Lines working, then maybe I would have an interlinked network of settlements, with dudes travelling short distances to deliver food, water, and junk ... ... but food and water doesn't matter if you just cap your growth by turning off the settlement beacon, and I just modded junk items to be weightless soooooooo 
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Jan 2, 2018 01:03
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shovelbum posted:Yeah like as Minutemen focusing heavily on settlements you can basically have dozens of West Coast Fallout level towns up and running in a few weeks of arriving in the wasteland, with an incompetent militia and a big fort and private island and everything. Well, to be fair, there's no local police force -- the one safe place, Diamond City, has it's own security, but there's no one policing Boston at large, before the Minutemen. And they're in pieces until the Magical Playercharacter arrives and rebuilds their organization by not acting like a moron. So, that's not too much of a stretch for me. Once the Minutemen (i.e. the PC) starts acting as the local defense, then it would make sense that it would have a snowball effect -- more and more settlements start joining the Minutemen and acting as the local police force, keeping the Raiders and Mutants at bay, causing new settlements to join up, etc. I mean, it's pretty shoddy, but out of all the janky narrative crap going on in F4, that's not the part I want to die on.
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Jan 2, 2018 17:53
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Goddamn, what were they thinking with Nuka World? Did they think, after being captured and run through a Hunger Games style game-show, I was going to be all "yeah, this sounds like a great career move! Let me be your leader and keep these rival gangs from killing each other!" Murdered the dude who pulled the strings. Murdered as many generic raiders as I could find. Murdered half the bosses, before getting bored and loving off back to the Commonwealth. I might try, again, if I was assured that there was a way to gently caress all of these assholes over in the most brutal way possible. Maybe blow up the entire theme park. Jesus.
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Jan 7, 2018 02:56
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Apropos to nothing, but are there any rumors of Obsidian getting a chance at the next Fallout game? Or has Bethesda made no mention about it?
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Jan 14, 2018 17:14
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I think the new thread should be general fallout discussion, as I don't know if there's enough meat to Fallout 4 to warrant a continuation.
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Jan 19, 2018 01:47
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