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Just finished watching the first season after a friend recommended it to me. Love it. The cinematography is fantastically confident and bold, and I'm loving the eclectic soundtrack and homages to the show's inspirations - ie. Pulp Fiction, Fight Club, etc. This might sound weird but my favourite scene + music is probably when Tyrell strangled the wife. Jesus, what a scene. FKA twigs - Two Weeks was an inspired choice, I think. The combination showed really well how and why strangulation (with hands!) can be so often a crime of passion and the passions it is driven by are so close to loving. I mean, sex = killing with passion as the driving force is not new, but the way it was shown in Mr. Robot was just, really well done. And FKA twigs, i don't even know how to describe how great her music is or how well I think that song fits in not just with the murder scene but also within the show itself, like, I'm not a good enough writer for that, but it was... ecstatically filthy, as one reviewer put it. One little thing that stood out me as I was watching Mr. Robot is how good the blocking or positioning of the characters is during dialogue. It's in line with Elliot's state of mind, his feelings toward other characters, and consistent with where his attention lies. For example: Shayla has a short conversation with Vera. Elliot walks up as Vera is driven away.  Shayla's talking to him but he's still focused on Vera. Notice how she slides into frame as her words register with Elliot.  They're very close together here, to the point where Elliot is almost obscured.  Probably because she's important to him.  What's weird in the closeups of Elliot's conversations though, is that he and the other person are usually placed on the same side of the frame. Usually, shows and films I've watched has one character on the left (or on top, bottom, whatever) and the other, the opposite (right, bottom, etc) when they're in dialogue. Because even though they're not in the same "shot", they are talking to each other, and usually people face each other when they do. When this rule is broken, pay attention to the context of the scene because the director is probably trying to tell you something. Elliot on the right.  Shayla on the left.  This happens all the time with Elliot. His mind is almost continuously thinking about something else - he can't focus on one thing, and so he's just not there when you try to talk to him. Elliot in this conversation just wants his drugs. He might still be thinking of Vera, or of fsociety. He's just always thinking. He talks past her. In his mind, the conversation is a foregone conclusion - he will get his morphine. When someone does grab Elliot's attention, the shift in positioning is immediate and obvious.  He's not even looking at Gideon here. Actually most of the characters don't pay attention to Gideon, haha.  But wait.   Wut.  fsociety. Now that's important to Elliot. edit: My work experience includes a lot with people with disabilities, and it's refreshing to have a show this focused on a guy with mental disabilities and drug problems - not to mention a trans person and at least a couple of people who are gay/bisexual, and to have it not be a big deal. Skizzzer fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 22:32
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Shoren posted:Another really good example of this is the conversation between Tyrell and the CTO after the dinner party. They're in a conference room with the CTO sitting down yet commanding his entire shot while Tyrell is in the distance for his shot, barely in frame. It does a great job of conveying the relative power between the two of them, that the CTO knows what Tyrell is up to, and pretty clearly indicates the beginning of Tyrell's fall. I need to track down some screen shots of this one. Yeah! I like how the show hints how the under-estimated people or people we assume to be incompetent got to their positions. Scott and Colby both demonstrate qualities justifying their positions, imo, surprising both us and the characters they're talking to. sticklefifer posted:I'm glad you posted about that because I definitely picked up on the framing during conversations. There's one scene in I think the wh1ter0se episode where both sides of a conversation are on the right edge of the screen, and another early on where (I think) Angela and Elliot are talking on the street and they're face to face but the framing shows them facing different directions in wide shots. I think it's meant to be deliberately disorienting. Deliberate axis-breaking is the kind of thing Kubrick was into, so I'm wondering how much hidden meaning is behind all the rest of the shows in this show. Cool. I haven't a Kubrick film before, besides 2001 a long time ago. It is noticeably disorienting I agree, and something I noticed more and more as I kept watching. Other scenes I had in mind was Tyrell and Scott's power struggle, Angela and Colby in Colby's house, and Elliot and Karen when he finally opens up to her. I'm loving the wide framing of the show just in general - it's a pleasure to watch. There's also a funny scene I couldn't find involving Elliot and someone else. Camera's on Elliot, he's distracted but trying to pay attention. He's in focus and everything else is blurry, but you can just make out a large woman (possibly man) in a BRIGHT PINK shirt crossing back and forth behind him, mirroring his own attempts to focus despite distraction. Every time the camera cuts to Elliot though there's that bright pink man running around in the background. It's funny, but it's also important. We're supposed to be distracted too. I'm with you on the twists thing. The show's not about the twists. The show's about Elliot. We could see that something was off about Mr. Robot (and so could Elliot, really) but we were more aware of it because hey, we're not schizophrenic and we're not always high. I think someone said in this thread that the "audience" or us is a character in the show. I agree with that too. Elliot created us, just like how he created Mr. Robot. Why? Because he's lonely.
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Nov 9, 2015 22:26
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That's great news. I might pick up season 1 if the word is good.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:23
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AwkwardKnob posted:Just finished season 1 with my girlfriend. My favorite new show of last year, easily. It's like Fight Club meets Enemy of the State. She was like a snake, from what I remember. Contrast that with the time of day they were shooting and the environment around them - incredibly unsettling, I agree. Great actress, great character. The show is great at conveying loneliness even when the characters are surrounded by people.
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Jan 29, 2016 04:13
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Collateral posted:Don't you think it was a bit loud though? I know they wanted to hammer home the message, but still. Other music earlier on was too loud as it drowned out the dialogue. I like the loud soundtrack. IMO, if the show is from Elliot's perspective - which it is - it makes sense that the music is sometimes too loud and drowns everything out.
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Apr 17, 2016 21:21
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crowoutofcontext posted:What y'all think about WhiteRoses spiel about alternative realities, other versions of one's self and a timeline where 5/9 never occurred? Was this just more quirky characterization for the already bizarre nemesis or do you think the show is actually inching toward exploring these ideas more explicitly? We've had a bunch of shows recently that seem bring us to some sort of supernatural/philosophical brink yet refrain immediately after crossing the threshold of realism (True Detective, Fargo). I think that was more about white Rose's gender identity and probably a commentary on China's views on such said identities than anything like true detective.
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Aug 5, 2016 02:41
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Bro Dad posted:Really? I thought it was because she was growing to like Dom and felt bad about setting her up along with all the FBI people. Sure, you could read it like that. I find her characterization to be intentionally ambivalent - hard for me to say how much empathy she truly feels. I don't think she really cares either way about killing someone. She's a lot like Tyrells wife I feel.
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Aug 6, 2016 19:15
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:It's part of Angela's inner rationalizing. She has value, ECORP recognizes it, and they like her. Time and time again she's has poo poo thrown back at her by ECORP people but if she shows them her value it's bound to make them like her. I have to disagree with the people here who are saying Angela misstepped in the last episode. Don't forget what happened earlier with Dom - Angela, Darlene, and f-society are beginning to realize that they're in over their head without Elliot, and specifically to Angela, that one of them is already under suspicion with the FBI. Why is she under suspicion? She stepped away from Allsafe to E-corp one week before 5/9 - one week before the hack. She then gets noticed on a restricted floor, where she's not supposed to be, right before the FBI is hacked. Angela needs a reason for her move to E-corp. Her moves immediately after her meet with Dom are laughably transparent. She's made her motives clear to her execs. That being said, I still don't know her real reason for working at E-Corp. She also must have a reason for switching to the Risk Division, besides what's been shown already. Also loving the cinematography. Interesting to see the contrast in Angela this last episode and the last time Price asked her out. Also noticing Angela seems to only dress in black and white now. 1 = white; 0 = black?
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Aug 18, 2016 17:18
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I don't think the show's going to start introducing time travel, BTTF music notwithstanding. Then again, I also thought Angela had a plan before she got caught up with the FBI. ECorp and Mr. Robot are not together. Season 1 and 2 made it pretty clear that Mr. Robot and the Dark Army are collaborators and conspiring against ECorp. Don't know what the DA's end game is, but it probably has something to do with world domination through control of the economy. I think phase 1 was basically the 5/9 hack. Hack ECorp, turn money useless. I think it's reasonable to assume that when the value of money turns to basically nothing, massive organizations like government or ECorp would be one of the last survivors. I think it's also reasonable to assume that in such a situation, these organizations would gladly accept any help to stay in power - such as a massive infusion of money. Phase 2 likely has to do with the 2 trillion dollar loan. ECorp and Whiterose obviously had a prior relationship to the beginning of the show. Unsure of how their relationship works however. Also not sure why ECorp didn't question about DAs involvement with 5/9 - as a premier hacker group, they would be one of the first suspects no? Maybe Price voiced this concern in a previous episode, but I can't think of it. Elliot wants to bring down ECorp. I think he/Mr. Robot realized from the beginning that the hack wouldn't be enough to bring down ECorp. I also don't think the DA would have aligned with Mr. Robot if he didn't have a plan with a reasonable chance of success. I think they both anticipated ECorp asking for a loan, and Phase 2 has to do with that. Final note on Whiterose and your comment ("what if [...] Mr. Robot has been supporting ECorp and/or China all along?) - I don't think he gives a poo poo about China. He cares about time, and according to his conversation with Angela, changing the world. Quite similar to Elliot and to Phillip Price, actually.
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Sep 15, 2016 17:21
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BetterToRuleInHell posted:If ECorp and Mr. Robot aren't working together, then Price has been playing Mr. Robot all along since making paper currency worthless has been Price's endgame this entire time. Has it? I mean, he said so in the last episode, but is it clear that it was his plan before the hack, or after? BetterToRuleInHell posted:Also, concerning Price in regards to ECorp and the Dark Army, why would ECorp ever publicly bring them up? Price has been working with White Rose this entire time. He has. Their relationship is not doing so well these days, according to Whiterose in the last episode and as evidenced by Price's and Whiterose's last few discussions. I also didn't ask why ECorp didn't publicly bring them up - but why wouldn't ECorp or Price bring that up to Whiterose directly? It's just something I found strange, and a point to your argument that Whiterose, Ecorp, and Mr. Robot are acting together. BetterToRuleInHell posted:I'm having a hard time reconciling Mr. Robot's supposed desire to bring down business with what we've seen going on, especially if everything that has been going on has been part of his design overall. How would he justify ECorp creating and handling the US digital currency and China continue to use US citizens as lab rats or whatever they're being subjected to? This wasn't just happenstance, he specifically designed whatever Phase Two is, so things are moving along as he wanted. We don't know what Phase 2 is so I can't answer that question. I agree that "things are moving along as he wanted," but I don't know yet what the end goal of Phase 2 is - or even what Phase 2 is supposed to be. Skizzzer fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 18:31
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music. goddammit you guys are making some of these theories believable
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Sep 16, 2016 01:54
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Snak posted:This gimmick almost borders on obnoxious, but I think it's really effective. It has been used throughout the show, and it does a lot of things for me. There's been some good posts on this during season 1. For example, DaveKap posted:Yeah, I am constantly noticing the amazing camera work on this show. Just check out the Tyrell v Scott scene. Scott's sitting down most of the time while In addition to what DaveKap said, note that Tyrell and Scott are positioned on the same side of the frame - I made a similar post with screenshots but I can't find it anymore. Oh well. I feel that Esmail's framing is bolder in season 2 than 1 (maybe not, I should rewatch s.1) and in particular, he's been centering characters more as well as displaying them symmetrically (eg., angela and price in his boardroom in front of the huge painting, Dom in the recent episode). I also liked what was said about the 'inconspicuous man and woman' - how in Angela's scenes, it often feels like someone is watching us rather than just us watching her. In the pictures linked to Reddit, the man and woman are in background looking at Angela, who we can say is in this midground. We are in the foreground, so it looks like someone is staring at us.
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Sep 16, 2016 19:08
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Feel like the taxi scene was deliberately shot to make it ambiguous as to whether it was Tyrell talking to the cab driver or Elliot, unaware that he's Tyrell, speaking to the driver. That being said, Tyrell has to be real. None of the scenes with Joanna, either Tyrell + Joanna, or Elliot + Joanna, would make sense. Also, Tyrell has had scenes with other characters who've interacted with Elliot - he has to be real.
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Sep 16, 2016 23:47
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I want the finale to air just so that we can stop talking about alternate realities.
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Sep 20, 2016 16:39
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Mr. Powers posted:Tyrell is both alive and dead until we observe the episode. 
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Sep 20, 2016 17:22
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after the credits
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Sep 22, 2016 05:34
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I thought this season and finale was amazing. Different from season 1, sure, but great nonetheless. Disagree with the assertions on bad writing, framing, whatever.
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Sep 23, 2016 21:42
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DaveKap posted:Don't worry folks, no speculation here, just clarification. Put the tinfoil away. Sorry, but this is your opinion. You (and others in this thread) haven't established in any convincing way how season 2 was not "translated" perfectly. I struggle to see how you make such an assertion without even knowing Esmail's end game. DaveKap posted:
No, it's not. If you are asserting that your analysis of the framing and cinematography pales from season 2 to 1, please demonstrate how. It's not enough to simple say that it's bad, and then to follow up with saying that your bad opinion is objective. Thank you for the recommendation. It is one of my favourite youtube series. You watching it too doesn't substantiate anything you're saying. If you want to say you're disappointed with the cinematography in season 2, and you want others to agree with you, you need to show how and why it fails, like Tony Zhou does. DaveKap posted:
Spergatory posted:I don't think a television show exists without some form of filler. Filler itself is not a negative, and used well can really help to round out a setting and characters. Some of Avatar: The Last Airbender's most powerful and emotionally affecting episodes are technically filler. The problem is not when there is filler, but when there is too much of it, or when it's not spaced out enough. Shows have to carefully balance filler with plot advancement in order to keep audiences invested and feeling like they are going somewhere. Spending eight episodes of a twelve episode season on a filler plot is not a very good balance. Can we stop talking about anime? Was season 2 of the Wire filler? Season 1 was about Elliot. Season 2 is about Elliot. None of it was filler. SpaceAceJase posted:Angela's birthday is one day before Elliot's father dies. In the first episode, Elliot is invited to her birthday drinks, but lurks around outside instead of going in. I like this. I wonder if any one else has noticed the similarities between Elliot and Whiterose? Consider: Both have 2 personalities. Both are obsessed with time. Rose keeps track of it; Elliot keeps losing track of it. Both are leaders of hacker groups. Both think Angela is important. Both want Ecorp to fail. Yet we haven't seen them interact in a significant way.
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Sep 24, 2016 20:39
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Elliot: People think their worship is some key to happiness. That’s just how he owns you. (S02E03)  Gods  Jesus?   Or the Devil? Price: Perhaps you find it as fascinating as I do. How a man can change the whole world with a bullet in the right place. (S02E03) Darlene: Dude, you’re freaking me out. I mean, don’t get me wrong, taking them down would - Elliot: - change the world. (S02E04) Believers Whiterose: I don’t want your proof. I want your belief. Angela: Belief in what? Whiterose: Do you ever think, that if you imagined or believed in something that it would come true? Simply by will? Angela: Yes. Actually, I did believe that. But I’m slowly having to admit that’s just not the real world. Even if I want it to be. Whiterose: I guess it all depends on what your definition of real is. Elliot: Mind awake. Body asleep. (S02E11)  Believer:  Believer:  Believer:  Believer:  Judah: 
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Sep 24, 2016 23:19
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DaveKap posted:Well if you just want to grossly simplify the plot of this show, I'd love to get your thoughts on Game of Thrones. It is okay, I liked the last season. Spergatory posted:Fine, if you don't want me to call it filler, then I'll call it "extremely poorly paced character development stretched out over an unnecessarily large number of episodes that by and large doesn't seem to have changed anything very much." You can hold this show up as an example of television perfection all you want, but there's a reason it's lost like half its audience since season 2 started. I would argue that it has a lot of relevance to the show's themes and plot. I am not holding this season of Mr. Robot up as an example of television perfection. The reason I brought up season 2 of the Wire is because S02 of the Wire was also different from it's previous season. Most people - including myself - didn't enjoy season 2 on the first run because we were expecting a continuation of season 1. However, when viewed in the context of the complete series, I think a lot of people view season 2 more favourably, for many different reasons (there's a whole thread on the Wire so I won't get into it, and I doubt I could illustrate adequately anyway). I think the two respective seasons are similar because both show creators already know how each season will go and how they fit in together. Do I think Esmail held back a little more than he needed to? Sure, yup I do. But I'm happy to wait and see what he does. I'm not as concerned about plot as it seems some people here are. And that's fine if you do. If we end up plot-wise not much farther forward than where we are now by the end of season 3, you might hear me complaining too. Not yet, though. I really did find this season incredibly interesting. crowoutofcontext posted:Both work in security. I did find this conversation interesting (noticed this when I was grabbing screenshots): quote:Whiterose: I fail to see the logic. Why put all your faith in her when we have other options? I think the her is referring to Angela, and might be what tips Whiterose off to Angela in the first place. I don't know who them refers to.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:39
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DaveKap posted:Your post is weird but this particular connection is a very good one. That bullet casing in FunSociety has got to be more important than it seems. I'm struggling to put this into words adequately but I think Whiterose is building towards some kind of AI/human utopia ("mind awake, body asleep"; Mr. Robot), Elliot perhaps toward the same goal or a revolution of some sort, and Price I guess to be more powerful than God? All three have God complexes. All three are working together in unclear ways. The Watership Township facility is at the center of it.
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Sep 24, 2016 23:46
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Started reading Neuromancer which has been on my reading list for a while now thanks to whoever quoted the first sentence earlier in the thread. Bout halfway through and really enjoying it so far.crowoutofcontext posted:Is anime-chat what inevitably happens when a TV IV thread goes through its seasonal fallowness? I dunno, the filler chat started around episode 8.
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Sep 29, 2016 21:14
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They might've. Wasn't he cleared of charges? He shows up in a scene with Price this season - looks like he's still working.
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Sep 30, 2016 17:42
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The same scene where Price gives Congo away to China? I guess I missed that it was a flashback.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:45
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Boywhiz88 posted:Holy poo poo. That was a flashback. Like the vast majority of opening scenes this season. Yeah, I'm looking at the scene again - Price gives China Congo in exchange for the financial bailout of E-Corp. Why do you think this is a flashback?
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Sep 30, 2016 19:55
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Well it's all filler anyway so we might as well stop talking about it 
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Sep 30, 2016 20:15
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thirded too lazy to check, when does s3 air?
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Jul 23, 2017 19:28
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Kabuki Shipoopi posted:Quantum state existence and alternate realities is more likely than him just being a rich and powerful crossdresser that doesn't sleep much? Yeah, I was waffling back and forth at the end of S2, but this episode I think pointed to the possibility that there's not going to be some kind of time travel or parallel dimension conclusion to the series. it's still unclear what Whiterose's end goal is, but I think her plan for ECorp - "it'll be as if they never existed" - is a metaphor for basically, destroying them completely root and stem. Angela's certainly receptive to that, especially in light of her speech at the end of this episode. Ditto for Mr. Robot. Elliot has his own reasons (f-society) but I'm sure wants ECorp gone too. The show has always been rooted in reality. our perspective is warped because of the forced perspective of Elliot. The extradiegetic music and narrative devices/tricks stemming from that has always been an unique strength of the show. and i've also always loved the cinematography and framing of the show too. premier was great! the narrative walk i liked too. Elliot monologues all the time. I particularly liked the juxtaposition between Elliot's speech and Trump's campaigning - clear similarities in the use of the language, rhetoric, and really, the same results (mobs, riots, protests). Was Elliot right? Was bring ECorp down really the means to a revolution, or did he just create fertile ground for more repression?
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Oct 12, 2017 19:02
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wait, those people were cool??
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Oct 13, 2017 15:43
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metavisual posted:I think that was sort of the point. i think the point was that hackers are like that. s1 and s2 had angela throwing those dumb parties too. i think you're bang on though about the contrast - there's a disconnect for hackers between what they're doing on a computer screen vs what's happening outside. like you point out, while they're partying in their dubstep dimly lit underground venue people outside are robbing each other, lighting things on fire, and beating each other. the realization that their hacking has repercussions is finally realized by Angela towards the end of s2 and by Elliot as he comes to terms with Mr. Robot's continued existence. I imagine this season is going to focus much more on Mr. Robot as his own distinct character and Whiterose. Looking forward to that.
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Oct 13, 2017 19:05
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^ best scene was Angela's monologue
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Oct 17, 2017 22:09
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DaveKap posted:Nah, I was specifically talking about how it's voice-over, then it's him talking on camera, then it's voice-over again. It was odd to me because it felt like they had a bunch of footage of him talking then re-wrote it later just to insert the Trump stuff. Yeah, a lot of real world poo poo happened between s2 and s3. I like all the references to current times - I wonder if they were expecting Hilary to win and had to adjust the script?
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Oct 19, 2017 00:55
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Part of the reason I enjoy this show is that I have no idea where it's going. Still, I doubt the conclusion is going to be a "big sci-fi reset button."
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Oct 19, 2017 22:14
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Maelstache posted:Another big hint dropped about shifting realities during the first therapy scene. Krysta had no idea about Elliot getting pushed out of the window as a kid, even though he was convinced he had already told her. So are they now in a timeline where that initial conversation never took place? i just want to make sure, we all know Elliot is like, severely mentally ill right?
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Oct 19, 2017 23:32
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Maelstache posted:Yes, but not everything that happens can necessarily be put down to Elliot being crazy. There's enough peculiarity happening when he isn't around to lend credence to elaborate More Going On theories. True, and sorry for my tone. I think this points more to Elliot working through his issues with his dad. Mr. Robot taking the shape of his dad, Elliot re-enacting his dad pushing him through a window - eg. the pier scene in s1 - Elliot seeking revenge on behalf of his dad, all of this points to an abusive relationship between Elliot and his father. The signifying incident being the day Elliot's dad pushed him through the window. To me, what was notable about that scene was how Elliot viewed that day as a normal (even happy) day. That doesn't indicate alternate realities to me, it indicates severe childhood trauma.
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Oct 20, 2017 00:47
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Orange Devil posted:I'm not even convinced that what actually happened was his dad pushing him through a window, rather than that being a cover story his brain made up to protect him from a more horrible truth. there's also the strange connection between Whiterose and Elliot's dad. It sounds like they knew each other - I wonder how exactly the three of them are tied together.
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Oct 20, 2017 17:41
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Elliot is Snapchat. no long-term memory.
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Oct 24, 2017 17:40
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AwkwardKnob posted:It's fascinating the way this show subverts expectation even when it's playing it straight in an episode like last night's. We, or at least I - was led to believe Tyrell had some masterful part of the Plan all along, and was smugly working in some covert bunker on Phase 2 and everything. From his phone call to Elliot in jail, to the weird misdirection on him on season 2, and then we find out he's basically just been in a cabin put on ice for months with no idea what's going on. His experience is almost a mirror of Elliot's depending on which of their perspectives you look at it through. Is Tyrell in love with Elliot, or Mr. Robot? Looking forward to finding out. I feel like I need to rewatch s1 and 2 because like you, i really thought there was something deeper going on. Tyrell latched onto Elliot from the first time they met and (in hindsight) I thought Tyrell and Mr. Robot had met beforehand. Or maybe it was just really love at first sight?
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Oct 27, 2017 00:35
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SpaceAceJase posted:Can you please elaborate? pretty sure he's making fun of the poster who thought Elliot = Tyrell. or was it Angela? i forgot
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Oct 27, 2017 17:42
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i love all the winks and nods to parallel universes. i still think it's misdirection, the e-coin theory i think is more plausible. Irving will say whatever Angela needs to keep her onboard with the plan, whatever it is. Although if the show takes a hard sci-fi turn, i'm okay with that too. so good.
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Nov 2, 2017 18:19
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