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Average Bear posted:like what the gently caress lol I don't understand what's going on here, were you Ottomans and suddenly became Byzantium? As far as the increased coring and diploannexing costs, I haven't played enough yet to really have a feel for it, but on the surface, I really don't like it. I feel like monarch points were just too important before this patch, and now they're more so. By decreasing the claim reduction and increasing the cost to core (and increasing the cost as the AI develops provinces), the value of monarch points goes up further since you have less to work with. Stability, ideas, tech, sinks like inflation or war cost, development, culture conversion, coring, generals/admirals, etc., they all draw from the same pool - basically, monarch points determines how much you can do in the game. There need to be limits or else there's no challenge, but I feel like they're getting to close to "I can't go to war because I won't be able to core anything, so now I'm just going to sit here for five years." I also don't know how I feel about the new building/development system. Before, buildings cost points to build, so you didn't really build them. Now, development costs monarch points, and affects the effectiveness of your buildings, so will people do much with either system? I can see you building buildings in your best provinces, but I can't imagine people really developing their crappy provinces much, so it won't be worth building buildings there. Anyone who's played more have any impressions on this? Has development proven useful as a strategic choice? I sort of feel like by changing the coring/annex costs, they're trying to make development more appealing than conquest, or to at least to be competitive. The problem though, is that it's more fun to win a war and take provinces from an opponent than it is to push a button and have your provinces' stats go up a little bit. I messed around a little with debug mode, and it seems to me like to really have an impact, you need tech levels amounts of development to see much of an effect on your nation. The dependence on monarch points is especially hard on non-Western nations, though. Technologies are so much more expensive that they have fewer to play around with, and then westernization is extremely expensive on top of that, so these changes hurt them even more. It's less vital when they're fighting each other, but now this just kind of compounds their disadvantages with Europe - plus, there's now another area for them to fall behind in with development. I feel like they need something to lessen the damage. With all the things that monarch points can be used for, I feel like there needs to be another way to get more points or to make them go further. I also think that money should be more important beyond simply having a positive cash flow and a reserve for when you don't. Money should be usable to invest in improving your nation, too; if I made 3,000 more ducats than my rivals over a century, that money should have had an effect on my country beyond the effects of fielding a larger army. They went a step better with decoupling buildings from monarch points, but the effectiveness of the buildings still depends on development and that is dependent on MPs, so they just moved when the MP cost is paid. I'd like to see something where you could purchase 10 year policies, things like -10% dev cost, +10% admin efficiency, +1 monarch points/month, removing a penalty for having a policy, etc. using a one time payment of ducats. Have the cost increase with number of provinces owned, an increase over time value, and maybe discounts for non-western tech groups. This would also help make going tall more appealing, since you'd make more money from development while keeping your territory (and costs) the same. In this way, if you plan on going tall, as you get taller you get additional benefits from doing so (you've had the benefits from more policies over that period of time). Maybe I'm just talking out of my rear end and the game is just fine and I'll get used to it; I'll have to play around with it some more and change up my strategies, but I just don't think it's a good idea to make war less rewarding when there's nothing to do in the game when you're not at war or planning your next war, and the changes to coring/annexing costs have done this. It might be more historical, but all I really care about is whether or not I'm having fun. I also like the idea that WC is possible, even if I don't do a WC (I enjoyed my one run when I did it, though). I can't imagine that you'd get very far on a WC as the game is now.
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Jun 10, 2015 00:21
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Average Bear posted:I was Byzantium, Byz Separatists in Mamluk owned cyrprus revolted, they presumably became the BYZ tag as well and thus I became them. So I had Cyprus's idea group choices, their monarch points and randomly genned monarch. Ah, got you. I was wondering why anyone would pick Maritime as their first idea group!
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Jun 10, 2015 01:25
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Sheep posted:Honestly I think diploannexing being stupid expensive now is fine. It was basically easymode just diploannexing everyone before. The thing is, points only pile up if you're in Europe and you're not doing a lot of expanding. If you play anywhere else in the world, you don't have a surplus of monarch points. Over ten tech levels, not counting any modifiers to cost, you're going to spend 6,000 monarch points. An eastern nation will pay 1,200 more points over that time, Muslim 2,400, Indian 3,000, Chinese 3,600, and a North/South American will pay 15,000 more tech points. An Eastern nation might reach the cap in dip or military points a couple times each game if they have good leaders, but for the most part they're struggling to maintain tech parity. Look at it another way. Prior to Common Sense, buildings, culture conversion, and most policies were more or less wastes of monarch points. Now we have development instead of buildings, but monarch points are even more scarce, so the issue is even worse. What I really dislike about the new buildings mechanic was that you wouldn't build buildings because they cost MPs, and was excited to see that removed, except it was attached to another mechanic that requires MPs since there's no flat increase, just a percentage. A big issue with dip annexation is the time it takes to complete. By increasing the cost and reducing the benefit of the statesman advisor, it now takes more time to annex and it's harder to overcome the penalty you get on annexation. I get that integrating France should be expensive, but if I can afford it and I accomplished what it took to make that happen to begin with, I want it to be done before the end of the game. OneTwentySix fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jun 10, 2015 |
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Jun 10, 2015 17:36
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Anyone having significantly longer save times with the hotfix? It takes me seven seconds to save every month and it's driving me nuts since a month takes eight seconds; I'm playing on a local save, so it shouldn't be nearly this long.
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Jun 13, 2015 19:57
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I think the American natives could really use some help with how the game is right now; the changes from this patch really hurt them badly. I played an Inca game before the patch and then again after, and while it still took me five or so serious tries to get a foothold before the patch, it was usually still fun and I felt broken games were about 50-50 errors to luck before I figured out how best to do things. Now, I just feel like the game is just trying to stomp on me the entire way. For starters, the Inti authority mechanic probably needs to be re-calibrated. Prior to the patch, once I'd taken all of the provinces I could, I was making ~9-11 authority a year. I lost my game to computer issues when I had to format my HD, but when I left off, it was 1520 and I still had two reforms to pass; in my previous games I was generally able to do that by 1490-1500. Adding to this is the Empire autonomy reduction bonus, which ends up being a bit of a penalty for the early game; it means you're going to be able to manually reduce fewer provinces for the 5 extra authority. The slow down means you're also less likely to be able to use any of your bonuses for fighting during the time you're forming Inca; you get the colonist ASAP, and by the time you get your next one, you've already crushed everyone. The lack of a decent colonist from exploration means you're also not getting authority from those colonies. Colonization is a nightmare with the first idea group moved to Admin 5.. By 1520, I'd completed 5 colonies and reached the coast, and I got exploration around 1515, about 25-35 years later than previously. Before the patch, I generally had Central and South America explored and a path of colonies to the northern and NE coasts so I was pretty much ready to westernize at that point. To survive Europe, you have to be able to reform your faith and westernize ASAP; if any Europeans have Exploration completed, they'll declare war and your game is over. That's why it's very useful to be able to string colonies across land to the NE part of South America - you don't have to hit the coast if there aren't any Europeans there already, so they can't war dec on you since they can't see you yet. You can't do this in any amount of reasonable time as it is now. Moving exploration to Admin 5 is also in issue in that you get to check out where the Europeans are really late, so you don't know if you should be colonizing toward the Caribbean, to the NE, or towards Rio de la Plata. If you guessed wrong, and the Europeans don't show up there, you westernize later and every year you fall behind, your game is more at jeopardy. Development is a big hit to the Andes, at least. Most of the provinces are mountains, so you start off with a huge penalty to development costs. Alongside the fact that you generally don't have any points to spare, beyond a period where you stockpile Diplo Points in advance of getting Exploration, development is a complete waste. This makes the -10% development costs a joke for the Inca; they both get this benefit much later in the game (because of Admin 5 ideas) and it isn't very useful to begin with (since by that point, you're mostly colonizing - it might have been slightly useful earlier when you're spending dip points while waiting for admin 5, but you probably won't develop after that for the rest of the game). The change of the "Turn X into a city" and natives present also hurts because they're now all - dev costs rather than base tax. A lot of the provinces are also quite a bit worse for colonization; the game expects you to develop these, but it's not worth doing. Missions and events are also not quite as good. You used to get "turn X into a city" and build fort in X, so there was generally something worth taking all of the time, and now that's not really the case - the only real useful mission I had was "Conquer Wanka" at the game start and once "protect against X." Some of the changes in missions are great for Europe, but missing some of the +25 MP missions hurts when need every MP you can get. Similarly, Inca had some interesting events with the Mitmaq moving and resettling. They still get those, but now they don't matter; I don't care if there's one base tax here and not one there, since there isn't a bonus for capitals, and base tax doesn't affect goods produced anymore. In the same way, some of the other events that add base tax are less useful, though they do help since it's a net positive. I'd just rather concentrate base tax in my capital with the previous capital bonus, or in gold provinces; I'd definitely take the bad option and fight rebels if it meant adding base tax to one of those provinces, or to prevent the capital or a gold province from losing base tax. The increased coring, annexing, and reduced claims also hurts a lot. Admin is really important because you need to get Admin 5 ASAP, and those all slow you down. On top of this, you're going to have a total of -10 stability from reforming your faith, so they just don't have any admin to spare for anything; rolling a low admin ruler can ruin your run. Rebels adding nationalism to non-forted provinces is a huge pain in the rear end. Since mountain warfare with limited manpower is a huge deal, you can't just rush at rebels - you have to make them come to you. There was also a couple of times where I'd move troops into position from an event and then when I clicked the event, the rebels spawned somewhere else instead since the target province changed. Another minor issue was the reduced vassal force limits hurts quite a bit for wars. It's fine for the wars themselves, but their main benefit was that after fighting rebels after taking a religion idea, you could consolidate your troops and conserve manpower, because you'd be getting their troops to replace things so they were free manpower. Manpower is really, really scarce for most of an Inca game, because by the time you can afford mercenaries, you've already fought most of your wars. You can still do this, but now you only get a few regiments to replace your losses. I know it's the Inca, and they're not supposed to be easy - they never were, but now they're not really fun, either. Before the patch, there was always something to do once the local powers were integrated; you'd colonize, go after some of the better missions, beat up the OPMs and convert them to Inti for later integration, and you'd watch the Brazilian coast like a hawk. Now, you just tend to spend years on speed five waiting to enact a reform. Here's some suggestions: - Rebalance the authority mechanic back to levels seen in the previous patch. Even a small difference matters a lot. - Restore the first idea group to admin 4, or at least move the + settler growth to Dip 2. With 10 settlers per year, it's not worth having a second colony going. With 25, it's not a huge improvement, but it's enough. Dip 2 is pretty useless for natives anyhow, since trade range isn't going to matter much at all. - Make a cheap new trade ship unit for natives with no guns or a single gun and reduced durability, birch bark canoes or whatever. There was all sorts of trade during that time period between North, Central, and South America. A crappy transport ship would be great, too; there were native populations all over the Caribbean, so a native power should be able to colonize islands if they want to - as it is, you can just colonize via land. Events or missions that granted an explorer or conquistador would also go well with this, if Exploration has to stay at Admin 5. - If natives can't have ships, then at least take away the advisors and events that pertain to ships/naval tradition/morale, etc.; why do the Inca have an expert advisor on naval warfare clogging their pool if they don't have boats? - Native tech groups need either a boost in MP production, or a reduction in development costs. Places in the Americans including the Andes were among the most densely populated areas in the world prior to Europeans arriving; maybe this could be reflected in a modifier that gives large discounts to development cost that disappears some time after European contact, province modifiers like Machu Picchu might also remove the -50% cost for mountain development, etc. - If claims have to be stuck at 10% reduction, which barely covers the cost from war exhaustion, why not give missions claims the regular 25% discount and extend them for 50 years or something? That would help a ton of countries, too.
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Jun 16, 2015 21:45
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You're referring to the Exploration CB? I'm not sure. For what it's worth, in three games as Inca, I was never attacked during westernization, so maybe you lose the primitiveness? Though it might simply be determined by tech speed, in which case, no. That said, native Americans are in a really crappy position this patch; not counting the patches prior to their getting new mechanics, things are the hardest for a NA run yet. Moving Exploration to Admin 5 really, really hurts a run because you're stuck with 10 settlers per year for a very long time, unless you tech up in Dip (which means you won't have points when you get to Admin 5. Most of the New World is pretty crappy as far as base development now, so colonies are a lot crappier (and there's no base tax bonus for natives) and you'll never be able to afford any development. Increased coring and annexation costs especially hurt you, too. Also, the Inca authority mechanic needs to be rebalanced because it was balanced on the old base tax values; owning every province you can plus as many colonies as you can still means you're 1-2 reforms away from reforming your religion when you first meet the Europeans, so you can't Westernize and will be a sitting duck. Basically, just about every change in CS made things much worse for Native Americans. Prior to CS, a run as Inca was tough but fun; now, it was largely waiting around with nothing to do and then realizing that even after getting Exploration, I was so far behind that I was basically waiting for the Europeans to take all my stuff and there was nothing I could do to stop them.
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Jun 21, 2015 18:30
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Pellisworth posted:Nah that's just a huge pile of allied armies stacked above supply limit and eating attrition This is amazing if they're not your allies. I had a huge coalition form as the Ottomans, and they quickly declared against me, roughly 220K vs. about 56K on my side. And then, six months later, a second coalition formed (I'd taken three provinces from Austria to get Vienna and Europe got PISSED) with another 60K. I ended up waiting them out in the mountains with two 20K stacks and absolutely crushing 60-80K armies, who would then rush back taking attrition the whole time, or else they'd sit on Plovdiv (same province, actually) losing 10K men a month. I trapped 40K of Venice's armies from the second coalition on Naxos with a fleet, completely neutering it, and within a couple years my first coalition was down to ~100K troops and I just smashed them to pieces, it was great. Unfortunately, the first coalition was led by an OPM and I didn't want any more territory until my AE died down, so I couldn't take anything from them but 13 gold - it would have been nice if I could have at least humiliated Poland who was in the mix.
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Jun 22, 2015 21:29
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I really don't get the +100% cost to primitives. They were already the group in the game that most badly needed MPs, this is just going to hurt them even further, especially since a lot of their provinces are crap (and/or mountains for South America) to begin with. It doesn't even make any sense, since prior to European arrival, parts of Central and South America were among the most densely populated areas of the world. If anything, they needed a cost reduction - they don't have points to spare for development prior to this.
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Jun 26, 2015 23:25
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Koramei posted:I've never actually played in the new world; do people really try to keep up with tech there? When you reform, you get the majority of the tech levels of the country you reform off of- doesn't it make more sense to just sit around as a tech 1 loaf spending all your MP to upgrade your provinces? I can't speak for North or Central American since I haven't played them in a few patches, but as Inca, you need to get to Admin 5 and get Exploration filled ASAP so you can get into position to reform your religion ASAP. Mil tech helps you against any other tribes and can let you beat small stacks if you absolutely have to of Europeans. Every year you waste prior to reforming your religion is a year that Europe has to get stronger, get better entrenched in the New World, and to take most/all of your country in a single war. Moving the first idea to Admin 5 really, really hurts natives, because that's 10-15 years of points, which means you're colonizing with one colonist and 10 settler growth per year. It also means you have to spend your diplo points on the useless tech 2 that doesn't really get you anything. You could invest these points, but you don't really get a lot of benefit from them since your land is crap to begin with and a lot of it is mountains with a + development cost penalty. TTBF posted:Generally you want to keep mil tech up high enough to dominate the other natives, and also possibly dip tech if for some reason you need boats. If you're further away from the Atlantic coast you might also get admin tech up so you can get additional colonists. Native navies were removed a few patches out, which also means that you can only colonize by adjacent land provinces (Caribbean is off limits), you can't get explorers to explore sea zones, etc. Natives were a bit too easy to play in previous patches, but they've been getting more and more penalties with each patch. Before Common Sense, it was really, really difficult to survive as Inca, but if you tried a few times and got lucky, you could get into position to reform and then westernize 10-20 years after the Europeans show up, and during most of that time, there were things you could do. Now, by 1500, you'll have colonized about 5 provinces - you'll get exploration at about this time so you can colonize a bit faster then, but it could be 20-40 years before you get close enough to westernize and there will be absolutely nothing to do. You also can't take coastal provinces, because until you reform your government, anyone that has completed Exploration can declare war on you and end your run. Before Common Sense, I was generally able to start my westernization around 1510 or so if I had really good leaders the whole run. Basically, they have two expansions that flesh out natives that made them fun to play, and then they constantly hit them with stuff every patch since that has made them weaker and weaker until they just aren't any fun to play once you've beaten your neighbors, and they got especially hit hard with Common Sense with pretty much every major change. Common Sense is a blast as a European, but it took all the fun out of playing a native tribe, and so it's just baffling to see them get hit with another thing without any compensation. At the very least, I think that the +15 colonist technology could be moved to Dip 2, which offers absolutely nothing to anyone that has to actually research it. Even if you can afford a second colony, 10 growth/year means that in ten years, you have the equivalent of your colonist passing its check four times, so why bother? A lot of the provinces you have to colonize to reach the Europeans also have a penalty to growth, too. I'd also like to see them get a crappy unique trade ship so they can at least explore once they get exploration. Most native tribes by the ocean had some form of seafaring vessel. OneTwentySix fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 27, 2015 |
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Jun 27, 2015 00:54
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I bought a $400 monitor so I could play EU3 since I liked EU2 so much (previous monitor wouldn't run the game, hahaha oh god I am old).
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Jul 2, 2015 04:56
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Do any of the UI mods fix the issue where you can't see things because the list goes off the screen with no scroll? I have no idea what the ship composition is there, aside from there's 60 ships. Also, what's the deal with the blockade text there? 
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Jul 13, 2015 00:38
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For people with issues on ironman autosaves, are you using local saves? These are much faster on my PC than the cloud saves, since it doesn't have to upload the data every month. I hardly notice the autosaves as it is, and my PC is 6-7 years old and almost literally falling apart.
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Jul 13, 2015 21:23
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Treasure fleets are kind of messed up. If 18.87 ducats of gold each month raises my inflation by .03/year, why does a smaller amount as a one time thing cause ten times the inflation? That amount is 6.1% of that month's income, or roughly 0.5% of the yearly income. I mean, I regularly take hundreds, sometimes thousands of ducats in treaties, and I don't think that has as much of an effect as what basically amounts to what my leader might find in his couch cushions. I get that treasure from the New World caused inflation issues, but shouldn't it be scaled to the gold production in the Old World? Even if I'd received the entire fleet, that's only about five months of gold production.
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Jul 13, 2015 23:26
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And then this happens four years later . . . Oh no, 1.0 inflation . . . or I could snag three treasure fleets for a nice 61 ducats for the same amount, wow.
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Jul 14, 2015 01:43
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Larry Parrish posted:I really wish they'd take out Persia's cores, and replace them with a bunch of Persian rump states that don't go away. But I'm not sure if this is possible with the way cultures and cores work right now. It's just silly to me that such a massive country can form out of rebels. It's like, you would never see fully-formed France pop out 150 years after they'd been annexed. It would be a bunch of tiny countries. I know that's because French culture has a million sub-cultures in it but still. I don't mind Persia as it is. I do admit it's really weird how the rebels work, though. As Ottomans, I took and vassalized a single Persian province from QQ, did some things in Europe and then noticed my Persian vassal was sending a decent sized stack to help. I went and looked over and in the ten years or so since I'd released Persia, the entire country had defected from the Timurids, over a full war's worth of provinces for nothing.
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Jul 16, 2015 17:34
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You should be able to. Just conquer some Islamic land, send a missionary and lower autonomy (in that order, might help to wait a month tick between) and when the religious rebels spawn, if they conquer enough of your land, you can convert. That said, it's probably going to be really tricky to get them to come for your Italian provinces. It's easy enough to go Catholic as Ottomans, though.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:01
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Bort Bortles posted:Yeah the rebels CAN teleport to your other lands via sea, now. Can they traverse multiple seazones with that new-ish ability? I've had really iffy success with this when I've wanted it to happen. In several attempts at a Catholic Ottoman run, they just sat there for years without doing anything, lacking a land route to my territory. They can teleport, but I don't know if you can rely on them actually doing it.
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Jul 29, 2015 19:22
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You can get bigger, or just let them revolt and kick their rear end when it happens. There are also options like trading prestige for -10 liberty desire on the vassal page. Have you had your diplomat improve relations?
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Jul 29, 2015 22:15
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The Cape is a huge deal to get if you're doing any kind of colonization because it's really easy to get 100% trade power there (like, one or two wars easy, even if you get there late), and you can route a ton of trade into it. If you want to really do well there, though, you'll want to conquer eastern Africa, which should be done as early as you can because that's slightly trickier, especially if anyone westernizes.
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Jul 30, 2015 19:45
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No CB?
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Aug 2, 2015 18:42
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I can not stress how amazing the Cape is if you control the eastern coast and some of the nodes upstream. It's really easy to get 100% control over, and you can collect there for a ton; I was pulling in over 100 ducats/month in the mid 1600s in my last game - though I had most of India at that point, you can still make a killing there in a more normal game.
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Aug 3, 2015 19:02
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You won't get crap for IA, though, so you'll want to release them after becoming Emperor. You can join the HRE then and it isn't too hard to stay Emperor without the penalty for not being a member.
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Aug 6, 2015 18:46
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Jackson Taus posted:Based on some of the advice upthread, I'm doing another Ottomans game (going for 1001 and the 1M manpower achieves) with the "cut yourself off from your capital so everything in Asia/Africa is 50% cheaper to core" strategy. I'm using Syria to block Africa and I've got Iraq stretching from the Persian Gulf to the Caspian Sea. Is there an easy way to block myself off in the North-East? Like if I integrate Crimea, push through Georgia into the Horde territories and the cheap Russian lands, is there an easy spot to block that from my capital? Or do I just have to make sure to leave an unconquered strip between my steppe conquerings and my Middle East through India conquerings? I just got the 1001 achievement around 1700 with Ottomans last time I played. I kinda did a gimmick run, though, where I converted to Catholic and then Protestant, and became Emperor (another 10% coring discount, plus vassal swarm!) after winning the 30 years war, so you don't need to go as crazy as I did and should be fine. You're asking a lot less, but in case anyone else wanted to try, here's what I did. The beginning was the hardest part of the game for me. There's a province of the Mamluks that's Catholic (Sidon), and you have about 5 years to grab it to spawn the rebels I wanted, and everything has to go right to get it on schedule. You want the +5% discipline advisor, since the Mamluks can beat you if they get lucky or catch you off guard (since you can't take your time and fight on your terms), so every bit helps. My opening moves were to rival Timurids, QQ, and Mamluks, fabricate claims on the two Mamluk provinces you can get (and don't forget to embargo your rivals, PP is huge), take the + stability mission, declare war on Albania (you should wipe their army right away), leave a siege going and send the rest to march on Dulkadir. Recruit 2-4 mercs; you need to preserve your manpower. If everything is going right, they won't have any allies yet. Declare war, and fabricate on the other Mamluk province when the first comes up. A second general might be useful, especially if you can get one with siege pips. Hopefully, you'll get both Albania and Dulkadir peaced out within two years; if not, you need to declare war on Mamluks anyway - this just splits your forces in a really risky way. Before you declare on Mamluks, split your fleet. You want your main fleet positioned in a way so that the Mamluks blockade them into port (I put them in Edirne), but you want two fleets of two transports each parked in Mentese and Teke. Their job is to send two armies of 2,000 to take Sidon and Trablus - Sidon to stop the Mamluk missionary, and Trablus so you can get troops to it to defend it. The idea of splitting them is in case the Mamluks or their allies decide to blockade on of them in. Also, be prepared to lose at least one of these fleets - in most of my runs before I got it off the ground, a fleet arrived just after the troops had landed. Both of those provinces are mountains, so they'll be much easier to defend, so be sure to defend there if possible. They also have to be occupied by troops until you finish the first siege and move on to Dimashq or the fort there will reclaim them. Do not attack the Mamluks in the mountains - you'll lose that battle and they'll mess up your run. This is the really hard part, waiting for that first siege to finish - you have three provinces to defend - the siege and the two others. I parked my main troop force in Antakya so they didn't keep taking attrition from the siege, and you need to watch what the enemy troops are doing. Be prepared to buy lots of mercenaries, and to merge units and replace them with more mercenaries; you have to keep your manpower up in the early game, and full units fight better. Assuming all goes as planned, take Antyaka, Trablus, and Sidon; you probably won't be able to get any more, and at this point you want the war over. You can generally take them once both sieges are won, or shortly after. Send a missionary to Sidon, let the month tick over to be sure, and then lower autonomy; this should result in a high revolt percentage for Catholic zealots, which will revolt in 3-5 years (make sure you do this in the right order, or else you won't get Catholic rebels). Do not core these provinces; you want that +RR and you'll be giving them up soon to Syria, so don't waste the admin. Use this time to consolidate your lands. Regain your cores as you can (hopefully they don't have any powerful allies) and grab the Syrian core from AQ if you can, along with yours, and finish off the improve prestige mission. Be sure to take Constantinople (along with the mission) - you'll want to have the Byzantine provinces claimed by this point, as well as Kosovo - BYZ often allies Serbia, so you can take the gold mine and maybe the province next to Ragusa in that war (or get it later if they don't ally.) Grab Constantinople, and before you take the decision to move your capital, raise autonomy to lower your revolt risk - it will automatically go to 0% after it's your capital. Hopefully, you're all set at this point to wait for the rebels to spawn, and they won't take much longer. I deleted all my eastern forts so they wouldn't need to siege them and I wouldn't need to retake them, but left the some of the ones on the west alone (I did delete a few for cost reasons, including Constantinople) but left a few in strategic places). If the other two Mamluk provinces look like they'll revolt first, lower autonomy to delay them. And then you wait; let the rebels take as many provinces as they can, which flips their religion to Catholic. If you're lucky, they'll be competent and can take most of your country. If not, they'll sit there and won't move for long periods of time, and additional stacks will just link up and do nothing. You want to let them take as many provinces as possible, to cross the strait, and then you want to send a fleet so they can't move to the eastern side. Regain all your provinces they took (so you can accept demands without losing autonomy) and then make sure you retake Constantinople before the ticking warscore forces you to accept their demands. Every province that gets converted to Catholic helps you big time in the long run, though, especially if they were Muslim. So, you're now Catholic Ottomans with most of your cores regained, and the game gets easier; just be careful with your AE. Avoid fabricating on any European province because if you get caught, you get a lot of AE and this adds up, especially if you were able to grab those two Serbian provinces. Get them if you haven''t, and maybe see if you can get another cheap European province without a long war; after this, you want your AE in Europe to cool down from all the provinces you took from BYZ. Now, you want to get your vassals up and running. Release Syria after the rebels are dealt with - you waited both for the overextension and to ensure that the rebels could get to your capital; they can be buggy. You want to declare war on QQ and liberate as much of Syria and Iraq as you can, as well as Ilam - take their provinces, but you can transfer occupation of Syrian ones to Syria. You need Ilam; it's the only Persian core you can release Persia from, the others are off culture. In one game I ran into trouble because Timurids took it first; this was a huge headache and slowed me down so much that I had to restart. You can't take much of Iraq, but at least get a corridor to Persia and block off Africa and the Middle East. One thing to note is that after a province changes religions, it gets a religious zeal modifier for 25 years that makes it impossible to convert. This makes it generally a good idea to use your missionaries on Muslim provinces, but not Orthodox ones; in 30-50 years you'll be converting to protestant, and all heretic provinces will convert really fast, (+10% modifier for ten years on heretics after conversion), so you don't want that modifier on any formerly orthodox provinces when the time comes to switch. From here on out, your only major problem is coalitions. Get your PP as high as you can; take Mamluk land whenever you have the opportunity (preferably alongside one of those +trade efficiency missions), and get a path through the Middle East and through to the Persian Gulf as soon as possible; this allows you to core a ton of provinces that you can't take before this. As far as Europe goes, you want to take Wien some time before 1500; you'll get Admin 10 around 1515 and can westernize. You can go through Hungary, but I went through Venice and then Austria - this got me some of Venice's islands, too. Chill out in Europe now; you want to avoid AE there and to let the coalitions cool down, since this is the part where you're likely to get a coalition; if possible, declare war against it early, before other nations join in too much, and you can remove a quarter to a half of them from it. Do what you can to help pass Imperial Reforms; you might get an opportunity to join a war and force an non-HRE state to return a HRE province to a HRE state, and you might want to remove Wien and the other provinces you took from the empire - especially if they're at 0 IA after passing a reform. If you're lucky, they'll pass more than one reform before the reformation hits, but in all but one of my games, they just passed the first one and sputtered out. While you wait for the reformation to hit, finish taking the Middle East, and grab what you can of Africa. Coalitions here might slow you down, but they tend to drop out in a decade or so; you can improve relations to drop the size of coalitions during this phase. You really want to avoid any European coalition wars if at all possible, so keeping coalitions small helps. France can make a great ally if they're strong in your game for coalitions, too. You can also start heading toward India. This is also where your question comes in; you want a path north from the Persian Gulf into Russia, and not north in Europe; you can take all sorts of land really cheaply, and leave a one province gap between the European and Asian zones (look at the region map for this). You can grab a ton of Russian land for dirt cheap this way, too, and get tons of PP if you're rivaled with Russia, though most of this will take place later in the game. You might also want to grab Rome, though the AE is a major drawback to this. I grabbed it and survived, but had coalition issues. When the reformation hits, I don't know whether it's better to convert fast and get the CoR, or to let three other countries grab them. If you get one, it'll mostly convert just you, and won't help a lot in the HRE, so I think it's best to convert after the three have been taken - hopefully they're all in Europe. Grab defender of the faith and do what you can to keep the CoRs from being converted. If you have Rome, Mecca, and Jerusalem, plus DoF, you'll have five missionaries. You'll get really quick conversion times for all Christian provinces for ten years; make these years count. Get an inquisitor if you can, too; you're now racing the religious disaster. Hopefully, you took humanist and have the +25% religious unity idea by now, since it will help a ton at this moment. I was able to get to 75% religious unity with about a year to spare on the disaster. Your next goal is to prepare for the thirty years war. Get into HRE wars if you can and just force religion where possible, or release protestant states. Get the electors all converted to Protestantism if you can, or at least most of them. Defender of the faith helps here, though you'll have to peace out separately if this is the case. Don't be afraid to decline a DoF call to war; you can just claim it again for 500 ducats. Ally and royal marriage an elector or two, and get all the electors to 100 relations if possible. After 1550, there's a chance for the religious leagues event to fire with a MTTH of 10 years, with extra modifiers the longer it takes to fire; it took mine 6 years. Join the league immediately. You can do one of two things; declare war immediately, before anyone lines up to join the enemy, or wait a little and let as many nations join as possible. This means more allies, preferably electors, and more (hopefully) minor Catholic HRE states - you can force religion on them during the war. You do not want to have any coalitions against you at this point, as it massively complicates thing. In my first game that got this far, I had half of India pissed at me, along with Austria, and it was a long and drawn out war. In my second (current), there was no coalition and I had France on my side and completely crushed Austria without a lot of trouble. On winning the league war, you get +100 to an emperor vote (so long as you do NOT have a female ruler! If so, she is not eligible to be emperor; this really slowed down my first game as I didn't realize this) as the league leader - if your AE is low and your relations with the electors are high, you should win the election. Join the HRE. Unfortunately, you'll lose your Empire rank, but you can't really get IA as a non-HRE state - adding provinces gives you a non-HRE state province penalty to IA, and you'll struggle to stay emperor. This way of joining the empire means you don't get the AE from vassalizing electors, and don't lose the prestige for releasing them after being elected. It's not too hard to stay Emperor at this point. Pass the first few reforms by adding land, and save some land to add for when you're close to a reform in between wars. It may be smart to add provinces to the empire and then return a province to a non-existing nation (releasing whole vassals works, too, but you lose prestige for canceling them); these provinces will join as HRE nations, hopefully protestant if you did things right, and more HRE independent nations means extra IA over time. Be sure to have 7 free cities, reclaim HRE land, convert as many catholic HRE members as possible (but be very careful with force religious unity for the relation tanking it does to everyone of that religion), and just do whatever you can to get Revoke the Privilegia. Aim for this by 1600; take as much European land as you can to help this along, without getting too much AE. Also continue taking over Africa and India during this time; you'll hopefully do a lot of damage to the Iberian coastline during this time, and you want to get them annexed before their colonial nations break away if you can. I had problems with this, and ended up helping Portugal and Spain out twice, by declaring war against someone allied with the CNs during their revolution and occupying their capital so they don't get a ticking war score and can't get enough to go independent. In general, try to take out Brunei, Ternate, and Tidor as fast as you can; you don't want them to start colonizing. Grab what you can of this area, and along with grabbing the Indian coast, you'll be making a ton of money in Zanzibar or the Cape (take the Cape when you can, but if no one colonizes it, you might have to wait a bit). You want a path to Ming, so you can hit them early and often. The first war against Ming is tough; they're not pushovers like they were in previous patches, but you should be able to field a very large army and just kill them with your great generals and high discipline (the Janissaries are AMAZING, and you should have no problem keeping them - they trigger some time after 50 army tradition, so early in the game). Take one of the amazing trade efficiency missions for China to make a ton of money; some time afterward you're likely to get the event that gives you a ton of money or 10% TE; the money is based on your income, so it'll be around 10,000 ducats if you have some modifiers to it from missions). You definitely want to get to them several wars before they get the L4 fort; they tend to keep up on tech fairly closely. In wars, take forts over other land types once wars start getting longer; they'll make follow up wars much easier and will help defend the captured territory. Once you get far enough along, coalitions stop happening and all that matters is over-extension. Later on, you'll actually find that you're limited by dip points rather than admin; this happened after taking my 6th idea, Diplomatic, and continues to be a problem, so I switched from admin focus to diplomatic. Try to remember ways to keep dip costs down; the target of the CB is cheaper, so are claims, etc. Georgia is really, really expensive in Admin points. Take a a few to get around the black sea early on, and then later on you're probably best off taking a province of Armenia's, releasing it as an HRE state, and then feeding them the +coring cost provinces. Likewise with Wallachia. Opposite this, the Berber lands in Africa are cheap as hell; the colony cost reduction neutralizes it and you're left with low development provinces and your cheap coring costs, and you can generally get claims trough missions. Once you finish with Africa, you'll probably want to annex Iraq and Syria; you'll lose some trade companies but the lower autonomy is crazy. As far as ideas go, get Admin first, and take the first three - this gives you your first coring idea plus the admin coring idea. Then, you want influence, especially for the reduced AE. Hopefully you get that one before taking anything from Austria. My third idea was humanist, which is a huge help for everything from rebels to the religion disaster after you become protestant. I then went with Offensive; the siege ability is great, so are the leader bonuses and the discipline; it's a very strong group. Mainly, though, the siege ability is what wins it for me, since that means faster wars. I then went Expansion; it was this or Exploration. In my first game I went Exploration, and found with the very long colonist times, it was really underwhelming and I wasn't focusing on the Americas much at all. I went Expansion this game and it's been much more useful; the CB is the main reason. The colonist is useful and the extra trade power helps fund more armies, but largely the entire group isn't very useful other than the CB, which saves thousands of dip points. I then went Diplomatic for the -20% war score cost, and it's an overall useful group; you can use the -10% culture acceptance policy if you'd like, though you probably need the dip points more than anything you'd get from the acceptance. I don't know what my last two groups would be; maybe Quantity and Aristocratic to try for the 1M men achievement? But yeah, that's what I've been doing. It's December 1st, 1699, and I'm well on my way for a one-tag WC. It's been a fun ride so far, despite the many false starts; my last game got all the way to 1710 and saw that I wasn't going to be able to beat Ming in time. Here's my map:  Of note is that that map is 1,019 provinces, so 1,001 is a really crazy thing to go for. Of course, you don't have to go HRE, and definitely don't need to go Protestant, but Protestantism is a really good religion, and it's a pretty neat run overall.
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Aug 13, 2015 03:26
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PittTheElder posted:gently caress me, that makes me far less inclined to make another attempt at 1001. Though part of me does kind of want to do a WC just for the novelty of doing it. Anyone have recommendations for doing such a thing as a still Muslim Ottomans? Mostly idea lines is what I'm curious about. I'm assuming I'd want both Religious and Expansion for the CBs, but I don't really want to pass on Humanist to go Religious. So tired of spamming missionaries. The 1001 isn't quite as bad as my map makes it look; the vast majority of my provinces aren't in Europe and were really easy to get. With more colonists, I could get another 40 or so provinces, there's maybe another 100 provinces in Asia I can grab, Persia is another 30 or so, and Russia and Lithuania bring it to around 250 more provinces I could take, so you should be able to do it ignoring western Europe completely. Jackson Taus posted:What's your max manpower at? I'm trying to get a sense of how easily 1M manpower is going to come - that 367K isn't your max, is it? Well then again I guess your Asian stuff is still cut off there... Max manpower is 375K, but my autonomy is really high pretty much everywhere but the main Ottomans area; I've been at war almost constantly, and after joining the HRE I've been a duchy with no autonomy reduction. Take the 50% from Quantity and the 20% from Aristocratic and that's most of the way there. Once I form the HRE, I'll be an empire again and I'll get a ton of manpower from a Europe that's been spending a lot of its MP on development for a good chunk of the game. Switch to Enlightened Despotism, turn on the -10% cultural acceptance policy to get just about all my cultures accepted and a much better autonomy reduction and it should be a piece of cake; a regular Ottomans would probably be doing a lot better than me in manpower right now, I think, due to being a duchy.
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Aug 13, 2015 05:46
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Common Sense is great. People are upset for really stupid reasons to go with the free patch that came with it, but it makes a ton of things a lot better and more fun overall.
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Aug 13, 2015 16:41
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Has anyone else noticed a bug where after winning a siege against an enemy fort, you lose military tradition? It doesn't happen all the time, but my MT has been dropping like crazy - 0.3-4 each month as normal, but then sometimes I gain a few points of MT after winning a siege, and sometimes I lose it. I'm not losing battles, I'm not losing sieges of my own, I'm just losing tradition on some siege wins.
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Aug 16, 2015 06:47
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OneTwentySix posted:Has anyone else noticed a bug where after winning a siege against an enemy fort, you lose military tradition? It doesn't happen all the time, but my MT has been dropping like crazy - 0.3-4 each month as normal, but then sometimes I gain a few points of MT after winning a siege, and sometimes I lose it. I'm not losing battles, I'm not losing sieges of my own, I'm just losing tradition on some siege wins. Managed to get a screenshot of it happening.  
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Aug 16, 2015 23:51
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It doesn't always happen, or else I'd be at 0 AT, but it's enough. Most of the game, I was 96-100 AT, and then once I checked and it was at 80 and I was completely stumped. I've been having problems ever since; whatever's causing the problem, it's triggering the loss on siege more often than the gain. The only reason it's as high as it is right now is that I got that event that give you 20 AT, I was triggering the Jannisaries decadence event for a little bit, which was really annoying; I don't really need them at this point, but it's the principle of the thing.
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Aug 17, 2015 00:21
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Pasai was a capital province, no fort, so I wonder if that's messing up the AT calculations? Something in the formula that might have something to do with me having a massive amount of forts, too? I'll keep watching to see if it happens anywhere else. I'm at 97.2 AT again, November 1725, so it couldn't have fired much since then.
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Aug 17, 2015 00:48
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1.13. I am pretty sure it has something to do with capitals that have no fort, but it could be more.
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Aug 17, 2015 08:20
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Wiz posted:Weird - this issue should be fixed in 1.13. I'll look at it. If a save would help, it's a local ironman so I have one if needed.
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Aug 17, 2015 17:59
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So, uh, I did a thing. Meet the Revolutionary Holy Roman Ottoman Empire! I had the world conquered by 1750, but then it took rebels twenty more years to take my capital. My biggest disappointment was that I can't switch to an Enlightened Despotism; I grabbed Plutocracy, but I can't get that remaining 10% to have everyone in the world as an accepted culture. Also, it turns out that you get a few bonus achievements when you conquer every colonized province in the world.
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Aug 18, 2015 23:58
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Node posted:You gotta tell us how you got there. At this point I won't be surprised if you started as Chimu, got elected emperor, and passed all the reforms before the Reformation. I made a post back here http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3725024&userid=127090#post448905601 about how I became HRE using Protestant Ottomans, and this is just how that ended. Declare war, peace out and core allies one by one, repeat. I didn't have to do much declaring on allies to shorten timers or anything, but keep in mind who you declare on since they'll be cheaper in dip to take. I cancelled Persia's march status well in advance of annexing them, since they get a -100 penalty that takes a long time to wear off. With Ming, it is absolutely critical to get there as soon as possible - they're not going to be far behind in tech, and once they get L4 forts, it becomes a huge mess; you can't siege 20 L4 forts in a timely fashion. Always prioritize taking forts in peace deals; I think this is what lead to my army tradition dropping so much with that bug, since at one point most of my enemies were mostly capitals with no fort. I did very little conquering after getting the last 20% admin efficiency since I already had just about everyone, so while you have to rush, you don't have to rush too much; if the game is going well, it probably won't be down to the wire, so long as you're taking Ming's forts. It really helped to release Ming's nations, since you end up getting 25% war cost for 100% overextension, and once the truce timer wears off, you can snipe most of them in a single war with no allies. A few points: Joining the HRE saves you something like 100 years of very heavy conquering, I'd guess, and major coalition trouble. There's a point where no one will join a coalition against you, but until that point is reached, coalitions are trouble. That said, prioritize getting IA for revoking the privilegia (it helps to release lots of HRE member-states, especially if you release them as OPMs) - once you do that, no one but Ming can stand in your way, and Ming's only because by the time Europe marches over, the war is over. Try to declare a war in Europe before one in Asia if you can, so they'll stay where they can actually help. I have to stress, be absolutely sure you have a male ruler when you do the 30 years war; females can't be emperor without special conditions that probably won't exist. There's a really good event that ends a regency and puts a great female ruler on the throne, so don't take her if you suspect she might be alive by then. It can help a lot to vassal feed HRE members. Return a province to an extinct country near your enemy or else release a whole vassal (after adding those provinces to the HRE) - do the first before revoking, and either after - I returned a province of Armenia and fed them the +core cost Georgian provinces and they came over when I clicked the last reform. Brittany, Galicia, Navarra, etc. are all really good for this - in war, you're generally more limited by OE than anything else, so feed away - it also saves you the admin, though this isn't that important for parts of the game - I was still buying techs way in advance a lot of times. Try to snake countries through Poland and Lithuania so they can help core Russia, too. Just be careful you don't put them at too high OE; Pomerania never recovered and spent 150+ years at -3 stability and never cored their provinces. Colonial Nations can be a huge pain; you do not want them breaking free. I was able to stop independence wars from Spain, Portugal, and France, but not England, so I had to beat USA and Louisiana. As you tear down a country and make them landlocked, the CNs are more likely to declare. It is REALLY helpful to find a way to declare war on them and then sieging down their capital; this stops their ticking war score and may force them to white peace. The main problem with this is that you often have a truce timer with the CNs from your wars with their mother country, so you might need to get creative. I never had to truce break, except after only the USA was left, for what that's worth. You definitely want Expansion, and you want to abuse the crap out of it before Asia westernizes - you can take far more provinces each peace deal, or get shorter truce timers. I never had to go over 110 OE, and probably didn't have to go over 100 except by bad math on my part. Set popups to warn you when they start - I thought I had, but I must not have and didn't fix it because I only got these messages when Hungary tried five or six times to westernize before I finished feeding them to my vassals. Exploration sounds nice, but you never really need it - you don't really colonize much because it takes 600 days for a colonist to get to the spice islands, though I guess you could move your capital to somewhere closer. But yeah, the hardest part is becoming Protestant without wasting too much time, avoiding coalitions in the early-mid game, and then getting IA. Once you revoke (~1600, +/- 25 years), you're set, since you don't need to worry about AE or wars, just planning and truce timers. If the AI is able to pass more than one reform before the Reformation starts, you're in really good shape. It's not easy - it took me dozens of short playthroughs, one that ended near the 30 Years War, and another that ended at 1716 when I saw that Ming would take too long with their millions of forts, but it is pretty fun and there were only a handful of times when I felt like it was a chore. The fort mechanics really, really improve the game, though it's really ironic in that I had 800 maintenance in forts by the end and mostly I just cared about them for the bonus to army tradition (.5 or so; no sense keeping them upgraded!)
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Aug 19, 2015 02:55
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I agree that it's a pain, but why don't you try drumming up a CB some other way, taking a province, and then fabricating yourself from there on out? Justify trade dispute, enforce peace, warning, etc.
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Aug 21, 2015 23:44
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There should be some sort of morale penalty and siege progress bonus for being massively outnumbered. If 990 men are staring out at a quarter million troops, they're going to surrender pretty quickly. Also, the AI REALLY needs to learn how to deal with sieges so they don't take such massive attrition. There's nothing like seeing 100K troops just wasting away as they all siege the same non-fortified province.
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Aug 22, 2015 01:50
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nutranurse posted:So what's a general strategy for when/how to invest monarch points into province development? Everything I've read has said that it's basically a waste of points and only really good for keeping you from going over the mp cap, which kind of makes the province development stuff a wasted feature. You don't really want to develop unless you have nothing else to spend them on and you're going to go over the cap, getting a gold province to the 10 dip development, or you're really small and don't intend to get any bigger. I've never really noticed any benefit to development, aside from the gold provinces, though; if you're not conquering somewhere else, what are you doing all game, and if you are conquering, a few extra development is kind of a drop in the bucket. Others might have other opinions, but it really is a bit of a waste of monarch points for me; I'd generally rather try rolling another general or two rather than sink 100 points for 2-3 development into a province most of the time. If you really commit to development, you're probably going to fall behind in technology. I like the idea, but I think it'll probably be better implemented in EU5 if they decide to keep the idea. skasion posted:Gave this a quick shot today and man, you aren't kidding about the start being hectic. I'm sure I could do better now that I have a bit of a feel for it, but that many wars in the first twenty years plus intentionally rebelling yourself catholic is a world of hurt. There's this weird thing where vassals only change religion if over 50% of their cores are the new religion, and extinct cores count extra. It didn't matter a whole lot to me that my vassals stayed Muslim in my game, but when I tried to make it work so that they'd be my religion, it was a mess and too much work. If you can get through the conversion and get your vassals up, you're doing well. Persia as a march is really useful for most of the game and will really help your wars out if you can keep them loyal, though Iraq and Syria are less useful. It would probably be easier to have one big vassal in their place, or one small vassal that just blocks you off, but their main point is easy land plus coring cost and limited AE overall.
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Aug 24, 2015 02:25
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Was your last mission the improve relations one? If so, pick a mission and cancel it. If not, is your next reform Revoking the Privilegia? The requirements are you're the emperor, relations are 0-50, and HRE reform level is not 6, so you don't get it after Proclaim Erbkaisertum.
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Aug 26, 2015 02:06
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Top Hats Monthly posted:Large nations now get more AE (based on total development). I completed a 1.13 beta one tag WC with the Ottomans and was able to avoid coalitions for all but a part of the midgame - this was before they added some beneficial changes in the final patch, such as moving coalition min requirement to -50. It's not as bad as it sounds.
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Aug 27, 2015 18:11
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I finally finished my first Paradox game, despite having played since EU2. The last fifty years were a huge slog, since there weren't any other non-colonial nations in the world. Here are a few highlights, in case anyone is curious what it looks like to own everything. I just wish I could have gotten my dip tech to 32, I was a year or two behind that, unfortunately. I decided to drop an idea group and pick up Exploration around 1800, just for the colonists, since nothing else mattered at that point.  Of note is my manpower, which the game couldn't handle, I guess, so it gave me a negative value. Also, note the lack of scroll bar, woo!  I managed to convert every single one of my provinces, and everything but colonies being cored or developed was cored.  Here's my income at nearly the end. I built manufacturies in every province that I could build one at around 1810, and I build every counting house I could. Apparently, if you own every province, Genoa is the best end node, even if I weren't collecting automatically in Constantinople. Although I might have been able to steer some of that to the English Channel.  I'd complained a bit in an earlier post that I couldn't get out of the Revolutionary Empire government type, but I was wrong. Once my tradition was 0 and my monarch died, I became an Enlightened Despot, and all my cultures were accepted with the other bonuses. I'm not sure why there's that red blob; those are the Germanic cultures that I got accepted for being the Holy Roman Empire, so they were green in the province view. I didn't get a screen shot, but colonies get expensive, fast. With that income, I went -900 at around 20 colonies. I wanted to grab every single non-colonial nation province and I managed that, though a few were still developing at the end. And so ends my Protestant Ottomans Revolutionary Holy Roman Empire one-tag world conquest. It was definitely a lot of fun, and really was tedious only at the end and a couple of road bumps here or there.
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Aug 31, 2015 21:15
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| # ¿ May 6, 2024 07:33 |
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PittTheElder posted:Jokes aside, this is the opposite of what you want to do. Ming is rich as hell, and will build level 8 forts everywhere if given the chance. If you have any intention of biting off chunks of them, do it as soon as you think you possibly can. He's right. Even as end game WC Ottomans, Ming with max level forts is a bitch. They'll have a huge army and manpower reserve and even if you beat them, they'll be back again a few months later since you can't chase them. Sieges take forever, they get crazy defensive bonuses, and overall they are a huge pain. And that's western Ottomans with Janissaries and amazing leaders and an unlimited manpower pool and huge rear end army - if they're a pain to THAT, they're going to be a nightmare to someone else. Attack them as early as possible before they stack bonuses and get better and better forts.; any forts you take are a pretty big deal.
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Sep 2, 2015 07:36
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