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Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
Well, my old thread has gotten pretty long in the tooth, and I feel like I'm somewhat turning a corner on a number of things, so may as well start a new one.

I'm gonna break this into a few different areas, because that seems to make sense. Let's start with my bikes:

THE GIFT
Spiffness has christened the 1290 as the deliverer of the gift, so we'll start with this picture of him falling in love with the bike:

Yeah, it's still loving rad. First valve adjustment done. Didn't gently caress it up (almost hosed it up). 12.5k and still not regretting a single dime spent on it. Metzler M7s are nice.

I still dream of long travel suspension, but that'd require spending my money, which I'm not big on right now (having _or_ spending). Maybe someday soon.

Italian SV650
The 999 currently sits with full track prep. The wife wants it back to streetfighter mode, and I think I'm going to pretty much only ride the Brammo at the track, so it's gonna get streetfightered again.


It'll likely get a Brammo headlight (because I have a thousand of them floating around), and will be the wife's weekend ride until I buy another SuperDuke in a year or two. (Because I have a capital P KTM Problem). It also needs the usual maintenance BS, including a valve check and the starter cleaned out, so doing my first Desmo valve check should be entertaining.

CARRY ME OFF, SWEET ELECTRONS
First of all - after a surprisingly short rebuild, I finishing rebuilding the Brammo.
As you may recall, after a nasty encounter with a Taxi, it looked like this:

Unplug bits:

Remove bits:

Flip like bug:

Appreciate Escherian steering geometry:

Rise like Jesus:

Assemble:

It's a motorcycle again:


Ok, so with that sorted out, the housemate didn't want to commute on the thing anymore as it doesn't have ABS and ABS would have totally prevented his accident - which naturally means the thing should be used as a racebike. Unfortunately, there are some problems with that - the first of which is cornering clearance. You can spend 600 bucks on a set of woodcraft rearsets for it, or you can just apply a spinning endmill to a block of aluminum until you have a something that looks like this:


That's with ~4 inches of rise and back. I also installed clipons, lever guards, and a few other items,, and soon enough, it's going to get a Tyga RC211V replica fairing - I could only get it to about 102 down the front straight of THill at the moment, and better aero should make a difference there. It still doesn't have enough cornering clearance, so I'm going to have to knock up another set of rearsets with more rise, which is fine because I thought those ones were kinda garbo anyways. The rear shock was re-valved by Super Plush Suspension, and should be good for track use for now. Here it is as it sits:


Still need to make the fairing stay for it, and get the fairings on, hopefully I'll get that done before Laguna on the 26th. Depending on how things pan out, I will either end up racing it this year or next year. We also managed to get access through our local dealership to the engine management software and turned the engine braking to zero, which will allow it to make race distance without going into thermal cutback and making GBS threads itself because it can't scrub enough heat out of the batteries. It has potential to handle really nicely, but it desperately needs a geometry baseline. I might take it to GP Frame and Wheel to get some baselines done on the geometry and know what direction I want to move. Right now it steers really slow (due in no small part to the fact that it weighs 540 pounds, I'm sure), so figuring out a balance that I can work with is the goal. As it is, it'll be really good practice for me to actually ride a bike quickly, vs. the silly "pin it, win it" mode that I get with the SuperDuke. This bike will be all cornerspeed and no power, as it's basically a Ninja 250 as far as track performance is concerned.

Six Sweet...Sylinders
After too many hours of Craigslist chicken, there was finally a collision with a CBX. I'm building this one for a friend. It's been sitting for about 10 years, but it's got decent compression, oil light goes off when it cranks, and it's a cosmetically rough CBX that I won't feel guilty about molesting with modern suspension.


Carbs are currently off with OldSchoolCarbs, getting a full refresh and rebuild, as well as a jet kit. There's a number of potential options for exhausts, but I have a feeling for the moment we're going to build with a loud as gently caress 6 into 1, because you really only buy one of these things for the noise it makes. This build is going to be a restomod, so I'm buying a ZRX 1200 to pull the swingarm and forks off of. That will give us modern tires, modern suspension, and will allow me to maintain some semblance of reasonable geometry. We'll see how difficult doing this build is going to be, I'm reasonably optimistic that it's not going to be a complete nightmare, as it's been done a few times before. It'll likely also get some other new odds and ends, like an upgraded alternator, heavy duty starter, and some other odds and ends. I'm waiting on a leakdown tester and a new compression tester to make sure the engine is in decent shape, but the old compression test of jamming your finger over the cylinder and thumbing the starter indicates that it's fine. The oil pressure light also goes out when it cranks, so that's good too.

Oh, and it sparks on all 3 coils, but one of them has a hilarious, massive crack down the middle of it. That'll need to be fixed too. Tires are toast, brakes are gone, it's getting all modern stuff for a reason.

This one is also dedicated to Sir Cornelius, who would have lambasted me for being a fool for taking on a CBX, and then told me the secrets of working on it, transferring to me the blood debt that is CBX ownership. RIP buddy. I hope you're ripping sweet wheelies on 6 cylinder 2 strokes in whatever afterlife there is.

Give me your tired engines, your poor electrical systems, your inert bikes yearning for freedom
I've also got the usual rack of guest projects in the garage right now, including a goon's CB400, a buddy's S1000RR, and another friend's 84 Shovelhead,. All of those should be turned around relatively soon, allowing mostly unimpeded build of the CBX.

Maybe I'll actually be able to maintain working on the bikes plus keeping the thread updated! I am an optimist, after all!

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nsaP
May 4, 2004

alright?
Pretty sweet dude!

cursedshitbox
May 20, 2012

Your rear-end wont survive my hammering.



Fun Shoe
Yesssssss

That Brammo is coming together quite nice, that was quite fuckt when I saw it last.

M42
Nov 12, 2012


Whoooa, what taxi incident? Must have missed that post.

Hermsgervørden
Apr 23, 2004
Møøse Trainer

Z3n posted:


Give me your tired engines, your poor electrical systems, your inert bikes yearning for freedom
I've also got the usual rack of guest projects in the garage right now, including a goon's CB400, a buddy's S1000RR, and another friend's 84 Shovelhead,. All of those should be turned around relatively soon, allowing mostly unimpeded build of the CBX.


My formerly very sad bike has left Z3n's Halfway Home for Crazy Motorcycles with an enormous grin on it (me). Thanks entirely to your help, my 40 months in the desert of not riding motorcycles is over and it really is a religious experience to be twisting the throttle again. I know I can probably never repay my indebtedness entirely, because watching you wreck your forearms and sanity changing my stupid narrow tires isn't really repayable. It was however fun for me!

Seriously, thank you!

monsterzero
May 12, 2002
-=TOPGUN=-
Boys who love airplanes :respek: Boys who love boys
Lipstick Apathy
Awesome stuff. Can't wait to see what the Brammo looks like with the 211 fairing and what you do with the CBX. :syoon:

GriszledMelkaba
Sep 4, 2003


Z3n posted:

Carbs are currently off with OldSchoolCarbs, getting a full refresh and rebuild, as well as a jet kit

Oh good I thought you were gonna be full on crazy

FlerpNerpin
Apr 17, 2006


I love the CBX and will be back down when she's ready.

Shelvocke
Aug 6, 2013

Microwave Engraver
I actually love the paintjob on the 999 fairings. No decals, just solid lines of colour, like it's cell shaded. Kinda like you're squinting at it.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

M42 posted:

Whoooa, what taxi incident? Must have missed that post.

Ya, taxi made an illegal U-turn, stopped blocking the middle of the road, so he mashed on the brakes and everything was ok until the taxi let off the brakes, blocking the path he was on, and he tried to turn right as he hit one of those construction plates. Bike went nose first into the curb, and as you can see, totally hosed the suspension and the frame.

Hermsgervørden posted:

My formerly very sad bike has left Z3n's Halfway Home for Crazy Motorcycles with an enormous grin on it (me). Thanks entirely to your help, my 40 months in the desert of not riding motorcycles is over and it really is a religious experience to be twisting the throttle again. I know I can probably never repay my indebtedness entirely, because watching you wreck your forearms and sanity changing my stupid narrow tires isn't really repayable. It was however fun for me!

Seriously, thank you!

No worries, glad you made it home safe and sound!

GriszledMelkaba posted:

Oh good I thought you were gonna be full on crazy

Nah, I'm perfectly comfortable with taking a reasonably well set up set of carbs and adjusting them, but I don't want to do a complete rebuild. Too many little bullshit parts that can gently caress up the entire system. Paying 400 bucks to a guy (+225 for all new bolts/parts/etc) to have him deal with literally everything is totally worth it. I'll make sure the engine is in good shape for the carbs and exhaust, but besides that, don't wanna deal with fiddly rebuilds. Carb maintenance is fine, it's the rebuild that is sketchy.

Spiffness posted:

I love the CBX and will be back down when she's ready.
I sorta figured. :)

Shelvocke posted:

I actually love the paintjob on the 999 fairings. No decals, just solid lines of colour, like it's cell shaded. Kinda like you're squinting at it.
It's not terrible, it's just what the track fairings I bought came with.

monsterzero posted:

Awesome stuff. Can't wait to see what the Brammo looks like with the 211 fairing and what you do with the CBX. :syoon:
I'm pretty excited. If I didn't have to travel on work all the time, I'd get more stuff done :(

Progress: Checked the cylinders myself on the CBX, looking at around 150 PSI per cylinder, which is great. Need to do a valve check, tighten the cam chains, and verify everything is ok. I ordered the next round of parts for the bike from Tim's CBX today, so that is:
6 into 1 (for fit of modern suspension).
K&N filters
Jet Kit
Coils/Wires
Heavy Duty Starter
New battery wires

Jet kit is going straight to Old School Carbs, with instructions to install and tune for the 6 into 1. Carbs should be done in about a month, other parts will ship next week.

Sometime this weekend, I'll be picking up the ZRX that we'll be robbing the suspension from. Final set of reliability upgrades will be a heavy duty alternator, and a new ignition system, as apparently the spark units on these things are starting to fail pretty much across the board (not really a surprise after 35 years). Once that's done, all the vintage parts that are likely to fail will be gone, and then it's paint.

In the really long run, hopefully it'll end up with a full set of right side up Ohlins forks/piggyback shocks for ultimate black/red/gold bling.

Laguna on the 26th, so I need to get off my rear end and get the Brammo fairings installed as soon as I'm home.

Motorcycles!

monsterzero
May 12, 2002
-=TOPGUN=-
Boys who love airplanes :respek: Boys who love boys
Lipstick Apathy
I totally get the outsourcing of the carb work. Knowing Honda there are probably three times as many linkages as there need to be, each with a handful of tiny washers and cotter pins (and JIS screws made out of butter.)
I'm slightly disappointed to hear you're going with a 6-to-1; I was hoping for 8ft tall Bosozoku-style pipes splayed out like wings.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

monsterzero posted:

(and JIS screws made out of butter.)

I've been trying to figure this one out, I wonder if it is because mild steel is the closest to aluminium in the galvanic series:

http://www.preservationscience.com/materials/metals/PGC.html

Anyone know what "(active)" means?

monsterzero
May 12, 2002
-=TOPGUN=-
Boys who love airplanes :respek: Boys who love boys
Lipstick Apathy

Ola posted:

I've been trying to figure this one out, I wonder if it is because mild steel is the closest to aluminium in the galvanic series:

http://www.preservationscience.com/materials/metals/PGC.html

Anyone know what "(active)" means?

I think it's revenge for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Make a fastener that looks like a good old 'Merican Philips head, but just enough different, and just soft enough that it cams out when you look at it wrong.

Frozen Pizza Party
Dec 13, 2005

Just buy my 690 already and give it the supermoto treatment, I'll give you a screamin deal!

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

SaNChEzZ posted:

Just buy my 690 already and give it the supermoto treatment, I'll give you a screamin deal!

I would love to but see earlier griping about money :)

I had a whole thing about JIS screws vs American screws and it being an interesting relationship to the cultures, with Japanese training the workers and the Americans addressing the fasteners but eh effort and you've had enough of my navel gazing for one day.

So this came to the wrecking yard:

1800 bucks, 68k miles, 3rd gear is shot. Pretty good overall though, especially considering I'm going to steal the suspension off of it and sell the rest.

It's been generally decided that we'll make sure the CBX runs, before we tear it down for a full rebuild, now including cosmetics - frame and swing arm will be powder coated, fresh paint in an OEM Honda color, and a full refresh of everything across the board. Also, I now have to soda blast the engine because the PPO was a spray bombing jackfuck who should be put down.


Also, I'm supposed to take the Brammo to Laguna on Friday. I sorta forgot about that when I was getting work and poo poo dealt with so now I'm scrambling to get the Brammo faired in time as the fairing will really help down the straights there and I'd like to do reasonably well on the time trial if I can.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
Well it's not...revolting!

Got the Brammo fairing on today - pretty pleased with out it's turned out:



I still need to make a couple of extra mounts, but this will work nicely with both this fairing and a version of this fairing that I have with lights for street use.

Pretty much all set for Laguna on Friday! Will try and get some gopro footage, I've never been there before, but being on the Brammo should be the perfect way to learn the track, as it's slow and as a result has very simple braking markers (often no marker at all, just pitch it in and go).

There's also a time trial, and I'm hoping I can take home some plastic. Been a long time since I've gone out on a bike in anger, so that will be fun :)

Still waiting for CBX parts, they should show up in a few days.

nsaP
May 4, 2004

alright?
Hey so I got a question I just thought of, you might not know but you can guess at least. What do you gotta worry about in a crash with that kind of bike? Better or worse than crashing an ICE money wise and what you can break wise? Obviously you probably aren't going to have a fire but I was just picturing batteries scraping across the track.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

nsaP posted:

Hey so I got a question I just thought of, you might not know but you can guess at least. What do you gotta worry about in a crash with that kind of bike? Better or worse than crashing an ICE money wise and what you can break wise? Obviously you probably aren't going to have a fire but I was just picturing batteries scraping across the track.

Talking to the Brammo guys, they have had minimal issues with crashing in the crashes their racers have had. I actually saw Shelina Moreda yard her Brammo in T3 at Thunderhill (figure about 50ish MPH) and it came out with some minor damage to the frame sliders/bar ends/rearsets and that was about it. The batteries are narrow and very well protected by the frame, and the electric engine is wide but not wide enough to be a slide point. Between swingarm sliders, frame sliders, rearsets, and the bar ends, it's basically impossible to drag critical parts until you wear through those bits.

The batteries are a custom built set of cells that have to pass all kinds of crazy international drop standards/etc for shipping as Brammo sells the bikes overseas, so they're very, very shockproof as well. Your chances of doing significant damage to the batteries or motor in a crash are basically zero. The residual damage on my friend's bike is a very bent (but still usable) radiator and some bent mounting brackets. Everything else survived fine. (obviously, minus the frame and the front end). That you can even have an accident where the frame snaps and the front forks are that bent and still reuse basically everything else goes to show how nicely they crash.

All in all, I'd much rather crash an electric bike than a gas bike. Hopefully I won't do that at Laguna. :v:

clutchpuck
Apr 30, 2004
ro-tard
Whoah.

Well I guess it shouldn't be a surprise than an e-bike has a radiator.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
Laguna! First time out here, Das Volk is out with his Viper, so gonna try and get some video, turn some fast laps, and do a ride along! Should be fun!

karms
Jan 22, 2006

by Nyc_Tattoo
Yam Slacker
Wanna watch that vid.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
I'm getting about 4 laps a session so here's my track map to try and improve consistency as quickly as possible.

tarzanspuma
Jan 23, 2006

Gorilla

Z3n posted:

I'm getting about 4 laps a session so here's my track map to try and improve consistency as quickly as possible.


Man, wish I had taken the day off to go and spectate... good luck today!

Beve Stuscemi
Jun 6, 2001




How many laps does a charge last at track day pace? How long do you have to wait before you have enough juice to go back out?

funeral home DJ
Apr 21, 2003


Pillbug

Z3n posted:

I'm getting about 4 laps a session so here's my track map to try and improve consistency as quickly as possible.



It's kind of funny seeing a real track map of Laguna Seca - I got the feeling that every person under the age of 35 has Laguna Seca memorized from the sheer number of video games the track has appeared in. poo poo, I don't know the first thing about racing but I can picture Corkscrew Hill in my head (and the number of digital cars/bikes I have completely annihilated by botching it). :gonk:

FlerpNerpin
Apr 17, 2006


Z3n's the birthday boy today. I'm guessing the Laguna report will have to wait.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
Yeah track was definitely memorized, but gear choice and braking markers/turn in markers needed to be figured out. No issues on the corkscrew though!

Also the elevation changes and blindness of T7 entry isn't really something you realized.

Pictures, video, and report to come tomorrow :)

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

Jim Silly-Balls posted:

How many laps does a charge last at track day pace? How long do you have to wait before you have enough juice to go back out?

A single lap uses about 8-10% charge - a full recharge off a 220 outlet is about 3 hours, so if you're careful you can run 6 out of 7 sessions at a normal trackday with proper charging and cooling setups (when the batteries get hot enough, they don't charge as quickly as charging dumps a pile of heat into the batteries).

Ok, so, first day at Laguna!

It was a beautiful day out there, perfect conditions with a very warm track. This trackday is more of an electric exhibition day than an actual formal trackday, so it had some unique considerations to take into account. First of all, you don't get much track time - I had about 13 laps total during the day. (3 sessions with ~4 laps each, plus the single lap of the time trial).

The bike's setup is stock-ish, with clipons, rearsets, a Tyga RC211V fairing, and the rear shock revalved by SuperPlush. I've also got 2 different power modes, one is full power with full engine braking/regen, and the other is full power with no engine braking, as turning off the engine braking makes it much easier to set entry speed (no changes due to coming into the corner in a different gear, and no transition from engine braking to no engine braking). I'd recently adjusted the suspension as I wasn't happy with how the bike steered at the last Thunderhill day, probably because I hadn't even checked the settings and it was still running not enough preload and could use a little more rebound damping. I could probably use to go up a spring rate front and rear, but it's on the soft side of race setup at the moment, which I'm fine with, given that the bike doesn't have a crazy amount of power or anything, so a little more compliance at speed is fine. When I'm going faster, I'm only adding a few mph at the apex.

Went out for the first session, and tried to get accustomed to the track. I don't find the corkscrew all that much different than T5 at Thunderhill - the line is relatively similar, it's a slow, blind left hander off a crest where you pile a lot of lean angle in early in the corner and by the time you're approaching the apex you're already thinking about standing the bike up to fire it down the hill. The first time I went down it I stood the bike up too early and took the Marquez line, but after that I could pretty consistently hit within a few feet of the curbing as I crossed over. My fastest time of that session was a 2:02, and I could see I was leaving plenty of time on the table. My max speed down the front straight was just touching 100mph.



After my first session, I reviewed the footage from the session, tried to commit my braking and lap times to memory, jotted down some notes on that session, and had a brief chat with Brian from Brammo about gearing and engine choices. It became quite clear that I was geared too short for the track, as I never really went below 3rd gear, and down the straights I was getting well past peak power and losing drive as a result. Despite the fact that the shift lights don't come on until around 6.5k, you never really want to be over 6k unless you're in an over-rev situation, with peak torque coming at 5k. I committed to running a gear higher everywhere, leading me to exit most corners in 4th gear, with the exception being T11.

Second session I was seeing about +5mph down the front straight by short shifting the bike, and dropped down to the 1:59s. They do the time trial between the 2nd and 3rd sessions, which is great for track temp, but didn't exactly give me a lot of time to figure out how to consistently go faster without introducing a pile of risk to the equation. Unfortunately, Speed Ventures doesn't run motorcycle trackdays very often, so they have us enter the track at T10, and after 2 corners you're heading down the front straight for your flying lap. Definitely didn't have the same confidence as I was trying to manage the cold tires plus put in a fast lap, but we all had to deal with the same handicap. The Zeros also have a bit of an advantage in a single lap time trial as they make more power but get into an overheat situation faster, which is a non-issue on a single lap race.

Here's video of the TT lap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6FRplenUg

After the TT race, I decided to put in a last session and just cruise around, and had a great time not focusing at all on lap times and just enjoying riding around. Amusingly, I put in the same times just having a good time that I did on the TT lap, with plenty of early braking and a much more relaxed approach to the lap. Clearly, there's plenty of time left in the bike if the rider could get his stuff together.

A single lap of Laguna on the Brammo looked something like this:
Come over the top of the T1 hill on whatever line I felt like, still pinned, as the bike is only doing ~95mph and you can pretty much be anywhere on the track and make the kink.
On an aggressive lap, I'd brake at the 3 marker coming into T2, down to 4th gear hit the first apex and then sweep out wide, scrubbing speed, before you tuck back in for the second apex in T2. Push wide out to the right, then move back over to the left to set up for T3.
T3: Holding 4th gear, scrub some speed, turn in at the end of the curbing, and try and keep the line tight enough that you don't run wide, as too much speed into T3 will throw you right off the edge of the curbing. This is one of the more hairy corners as it is tighter than you expect on exit. Upshift to 5th on exit.
T4: No need to brake here, although I was doing it, as the corner seems tight but opens up and has plenty of space on exit.
T5; Brake aggressively, downshift to 4th, scrub some speed, and then realize that you came through too slowly as you're still not using all track on exit. Another corner that you can enter faster than you expect. Upshift to 5th on exit.
T6: You don't need to brake for this corner and can hold 5th, but the hill you climb on corner entrance makes the corner seem like it comes at you really quickly. It's another corner that you can enter faster than you expect. Grab 6th halfway up the hill on exit.
T7: You're basically banking the bike over and braking as you come through this corner, setting up for the Corkscrew.
T8: Downshift to 4th, enter wide to the right, and try and get the corner over before you hit the crest so you're pinned driving down the hill and sweeping to the right as you enter Rainey. Shortshifting into on exit of the corkscrew would likely be faster than holding 4th like I did.
T9: It's fast, and you don't want to take a sharp inside line as is tempting. You stay way right for what seems like way too long, building piles of speed, and then bank the bike over more to make the apex at Rainey.
T10: Scrub a little speed and pitch it in - heavily on camber, so you can carry a lot of speed through here. If you get good drive out you'll need 6th before you get to T11.
T11: Slow all the way down, drop the bike into 3rd gear, and power out down the front straight, running up through the gears. I was making it into 6th before the start/finish on a good drive, indicating I needed taller gearing.

All in all, had a great time. Ended up 5th in the production class out of 13, which I was pretty happy with considering I'd never actually ridden Laguna before.

Planned mods to the Brammo are now: Move down to a 160 rear, because the 180 is just excessive and I could use the reduced rotating mass, strip one of the front brake rotors for the same reason because I don't brake enough to need the dual setup, and swap out master cylinder for the appropriate one for a single front rotor. For club racing, I'll need to remake the belly pan to not be split down the middle to accommodate the motor controller, and safety wire/etc.

All in all, really happy with the bike. It handles really nicely, responds well to being pushed to go faster, and is a blast all around. Looking forward to picking my race license up again and getting out there next year in AFM, and shooting for a podium spot next year on the Brammo at the TT.

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Very cool! Could the gearing experience also suggest that a simpler gearbox would do?

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

Ola posted:

Very cool! Could the gearing experience also suggest that a simpler gearbox would do?

You could easily get away with a 3 or 4 speed for track use but first gear launches on the street are a giggle and a half, so it makes sense to keep the 6 speed.

Barnsy
Jul 22, 2013

Z3n posted:

A single lap uses about 8-10% charge - a full recharge off a 220 outlet is about 3 hours, so if you're careful you can run 6 out of 7 sessions at a normal trackday with proper charging and cooling setups (when the batteries get hot enough, they don't charge as quickly as charging dumps a pile of heat into the batteries).

Ok, so, first day at Laguna!

It was a beautiful day out there, perfect conditions with a very warm track. This trackday is more of an electric exhibition day than an actual formal trackday, so it had some unique considerations to take into account. First of all, you don't get much track time - I had about 13 laps total during the day. (3 sessions with ~4 laps each, plus the single lap of the time trial).

The bike's setup is stock-ish, with clipons, rearsets, a Tyga RC211V fairing, and the rear shock revalved by SuperPlush. I've also got 2 different power modes, one is full power with full engine braking/regen, and the other is full power with no engine braking, as turning off the engine braking makes it much easier to set entry speed (no changes due to coming into the corner in a different gear, and no transition from engine braking to no engine braking). I'd recently adjusted the suspension as I wasn't happy with how the bike steered at the last Thunderhill day, probably because I hadn't even checked the settings and it was still running not enough preload and could use a little more rebound damping. I could probably use to go up a spring rate front and rear, but it's on the soft side of race setup at the moment, which I'm fine with, given that the bike doesn't have a crazy amount of power or anything, so a little more compliance at speed is fine. When I'm going faster, I'm only adding a few mph at the apex.

Went out for the first session, and tried to get accustomed to the track. I don't find the corkscrew all that much different than T5 at Thunderhill - the line is relatively similar, it's a slow, blind left hander off a crest where you pile a lot of lean angle in early in the corner and by the time you're approaching the apex you're already thinking about standing the bike up to fire it down the hill. The first time I went down it I stood the bike up too early and took the Marquez line, but after that I could pretty consistently hit within a few feet of the curbing as I crossed over. My fastest time of that session was a 2:02, and I could see I was leaving plenty of time on the table. My max speed down the front straight was just touching 100mph.



After my first session, I reviewed the footage from the session, tried to commit my braking and lap times to memory, jotted down some notes on that session, and had a brief chat with Brian from Brammo about gearing and engine choices. It became quite clear that I was geared too short for the track, as I never really went below 3rd gear, and down the straights I was getting well past peak power and losing drive as a result. Despite the fact that the shift lights don't come on until around 6.5k, you never really want to be over 6k unless you're in an over-rev situation, with peak torque coming at 5k. I committed to running a gear higher everywhere, leading me to exit most corners in 4th gear, with the exception being T11.

Second session I was seeing about +5mph down the front straight by short shifting the bike, and dropped down to the 1:59s. They do the time trial between the 2nd and 3rd sessions, which is great for track temp, but didn't exactly give me a lot of time to figure out how to consistently go faster without introducing a pile of risk to the equation. Unfortunately, Speed Ventures doesn't run motorcycle trackdays very often, so they have us enter the track at T10, and after 2 corners you're heading down the front straight for your flying lap. Definitely didn't have the same confidence as I was trying to manage the cold tires plus put in a fast lap, but we all had to deal with the same handicap. The Zeros also have a bit of an advantage in a single lap time trial as they make more power but get into an overheat situation faster, which is a non-issue on a single lap race.

Here's video of the TT lap:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H6FRplenUg

After the TT race, I decided to put in a last session and just cruise around, and had a great time not focusing at all on lap times and just enjoying riding around. Amusingly, I put in the same times just having a good time that I did on the TT lap, with plenty of early braking and a much more relaxed approach to the lap. Clearly, there's plenty of time left in the bike if the rider could get his stuff together.

A single lap of Laguna on the Brammo looked something like this:
Come over the top of the T1 hill on whatever line I felt like, still pinned, as the bike is only doing ~95mph and you can pretty much be anywhere on the track and make the kink.
On an aggressive lap, I'd brake at the 3 marker coming into T2, down to 4th gear hit the first apex and then sweep out wide, scrubbing speed, before you tuck back in for the second apex in T2. Push wide out to the right, then move back over to the left to set up for T3.
T3: Holding 4th gear, scrub some speed, turn in at the end of the curbing, and try and keep the line tight enough that you don't run wide, as too much speed into T3 will throw you right off the edge of the curbing. This is one of the more hairy corners as it is tighter than you expect on exit. Upshift to 5th on exit.
T4: No need to brake here, although I was doing it, as the corner seems tight but opens up and has plenty of space on exit.
T5; Brake aggressively, downshift to 4th, scrub some speed, and then realize that you came through too slowly as you're still not using all track on exit. Another corner that you can enter faster than you expect. Upshift to 5th on exit.
T6: You don't need to brake for this corner and can hold 5th, but the hill you climb on corner entrance makes the corner seem like it comes at you really quickly. It's another corner that you can enter faster than you expect. Grab 6th halfway up the hill on exit.
T7: You're basically banking the bike over and braking as you come through this corner, setting up for the Corkscrew.
T8: Downshift to 4th, enter wide to the right, and try and get the corner over before you hit the crest so you're pinned driving down the hill and sweeping to the right as you enter Rainey. Shortshifting into on exit of the corkscrew would likely be faster than holding 4th like I did.
T9: It's fast, and you don't want to take a sharp inside line as is tempting. You stay way right for what seems like way too long, building piles of speed, and then bank the bike over more to make the apex at Rainey.
T10: Scrub a little speed and pitch it in - heavily on camber, so you can carry a lot of speed through here. If you get good drive out you'll need 6th before you get to T11.
T11: Slow all the way down, drop the bike into 3rd gear, and power out down the front straight, running up through the gears. I was making it into 6th before the start/finish on a good drive, indicating I needed taller gearing.

All in all, had a great time. Ended up 5th in the production class out of 13, which I was pretty happy with considering I'd never actually ridden Laguna before.

Planned mods to the Brammo are now: Move down to a 160 rear, because the 180 is just excessive and I could use the reduced rotating mass, strip one of the front brake rotors for the same reason because I don't brake enough to need the dual setup, and swap out master cylinder for the appropriate one for a single front rotor. For club racing, I'll need to remake the belly pan to not be split down the middle to accommodate the motor controller, and safety wire/etc.

All in all, really happy with the bike. It handles really nicely, responds well to being pushed to go faster, and is a blast all around. Looking forward to picking my race license up again and getting out there next year in AFM, and shooting for a podium spot next year on the Brammo at the TT.

I don't get the hate for the sound of electric bikes, I think they sound pretty rad. Nice riding, Seca is such an amazing track.

I find it interesting that the Brammo engine revs so low. A lot of electric motors are easily capable of over 30k RPM, is there a reason Brammo went with a low-revving version?

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
With the 6 speed they can use a smaller engine that puts out power in a tighter range, which keeps weight, power consumption (heat) and size small. They have a few other options they've used on prototypes and they've changed the windings over the years and now they make a version that puts out peak power around 7k vs the 5k of the engine that's in that model bike. There's also their high voltage version that puts out max power at 9k, but revs with roughly the same torque to 11k.

clutchpuck
Apr 30, 2004
ro-tard

Z3n posted:

max power at 9k, but revs with roughly the same torque to 11k.

That doesn't add up to me. Same torques at higher RPMs equals more powers every time, right?

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.
Err, sorry, that should be "revs with the same hp". Torque drops off over 9k but rpm are still rising so it "maintains power" - one of those cases where HP doesn't really reflect well that you're getting less out of the engine.

ReelBigLizard
Feb 27, 2003

Fallen Rib

Barnsy posted:

A lot of electric motors are easily capable of over 30k RPM, is there a reason Brammo went with a low-revving version?

There is also the problem of gearing that down to the correct final drive for the wheel. More RPM means a bigger or more complex reduction drive.

With the new project bike I've got a motor coming that makes best power/efficiency at around 7k. But I wanted a bike that topped out at around 28mph. I've had to go with a 5:1 belt primary driving a 4:1 chain final drive to get there for my given wheel size. 4:1 is a 14:56 front/rear sprocket, for reference.

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

ReelBigLizard posted:

There is also the problem of gearing that down to the correct final drive for the wheel. More RPM means a bigger or more complex reduction drive.

With the new project bike I've got a motor coming that makes best power/efficiency at around 7k. But I wanted a bike that topped out at around 28mph. I've had to go with a 5:1 belt primary driving a 4:1 chain final drive to get there for my given wheel size. 4:1 is a 14:56 front/rear sprocket, for reference.

Yeah - what project are you working on? Start a thread or post it somewhere :)

Updates:
So the Brammo is still hanging out in the back of the truck, waiting for me to unload it. I dropped off the S1000RR with it's owner, it made me want a S1000XR for commuting and longer distance rides, but in time that passed.

I had a few free hours yesterday, so I began the breakdown of the ZRX.



It's in pretty nice shape all around for a bike with 68k on it. Some minor cosmetic dings and little bits of rash here and there, but overall, it's in decent shape. I found one busted bolt in the airbox that just spun, but some application of impact driver and eventually it heated the poo poo out of the bolt and nut and spun the retaining sleeve out of the airbox. Works, won't fix.

Forgot to snag a picture last night, but I got this far in about 2 hours. I'm gonna try and get away with just swinging the radiator out of the way, pulling the exhaust, and leaving the engine in the frame while pulling everything else off.



I guess i never laid out the plans for the CBX, so here they are:

Phase 0 - Fire it again

Phase 0 is just making sure everything runs and works and I don't have a rebuild in my future. Once the first round of parts show up, I'll have a 6 into 1, carbs freshly rebuilt with K&N pod filters, new coils, a new starter, some new wires that are needed, etc. After an oil change, valve check, cam chain tensioning, and making sure there's no parts that could wreck the engine if they fail (I've heard something about tachometer drivers, need to do some more research on that). I'll temporarily install everything, fire the bike up off a slave tank for gas, and then make sure it runs and burn out a little of my hearing listening to that sweet 6 into 1. I'd ride it on the old suspension at this point but all the brake systems are totally blown out, so it's not gonna really be rideable unless I'm not big on stopping.

Phase 1 - Make it handle

Phase 1 is getting the suspension swapped from the ZRX. I'll probably farm out most of the machine work to a local machine shop for the steering stem, although I might just be able to sleeve the steering stem from the ZRX and keep everything OEM otherwise. The swingarm is going to need an internal spacer to sleeve the swingarm bearings down to the appropriate size for the CBX swingarm pivot bolt, and I'll probably have to machine out the back end of the swingarm a little bit to get it to clear the back of the CBX engine. Probably going to also need to machine up some spacers for the shock mounts, which will have the added advantage of allowing me some ride height adjustability to try and keep the carb angle reasonable. I'll also be addressing the old charging system and ignition system at this point with replacement parts from Tim's CBX.

Phase 2 - Not just reliable, but a looker

Phase 2 is getting it looking fly as poo poo. Strip everything down to the frame, frame/swingarm/triples/wheels/etc go in for powercoating. Plastics and tank go to an old Honda paint wizard to get a replica of an OEM paintjob (colors TBD, although likely to be some form of subtle gently caress you to OEM restoration purists). Engine will get mediablasted to undo the lovely spraybombing by the PO. It'll probably be about 2 months of having the bike off the road to get it sorted out but these are the prices that must be paid. I'll also use that time to verify that all of the suspension swap components are ok, inspecting for excessive wear on the swingarm pivot parts, steering stem, etc.

Phase 3 - Let's get stupid
Phase 3 is what I hope we do one day, which is throwing 3.5k of Ohlins forks and shocks at it, plus some Marchesini wheels off a ducati.

I ordered the parts/dropped off the carbs for phase 0 a few weeks ago, but they finally shipped, so I should have them soon. In a few weeks when the carbs are done, it'll be game on for completing Phase 0. I'm probably gonna get impatient and try and get phase 1 started while phase 0 is still in process, but I don't want to commit to piles of custom suspension work if the engine isn't a runner (it should be, it has 150 compression on all cylinders with a little oil down the bores, even with a crappy starter).

Have to travel for another few days for work, but I'm hoping to have the bike running in the next 2 weeks (depends on when I can get the carbs...), with a plan of completing Phase 1 within the next 2 months. Phase 2 will depend on how much fun is being had riding the bike and if we're using it regularly or not. Might end up waiting until the end of the summer to do that just because a good CBX deserves to be ridden during the CA summer.

Z3n fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jun 30, 2015

ReelBigLizard
Feb 27, 2003

Fallen Rib

Z3n posted:

Yeah - what project are you working on? Start a thread or post it somewhere :)

Pretty much a bicycle with the power of a small motorcycle. I've got a fair bit done but the motor and primary drive are still on the way from the guys who built it in the states. As soon as the drive unit is here the build thread will commence :)

I've got a guy who says he can get me an exhibition run at the local sprint in September if I can get it ready in time.

quote:

(colors TBD, although likely to be some form of subtle gently caress you to OEM restoration purists)

ZRX paint job but with Honda badging. When people mention it, deadpan, explain it like you really wanted a ZRX but all you could find was a CBX.

ReelBigLizard fucked around with this message at 10:08 on Jul 1, 2015

Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

ReelBigLizard posted:

Pretty much a bicycle with the power of a small motorcycle. I've got a fair bit done but the motor and primary drive are still on the way from the guys who built it in the states. As soon as the drive unit is here the build thread will commence :)

I've got a guy who says he can get me an exhibition run at the local sprint in September if I can get it ready in time.


ZRX paint job but with Honda badging. When people mention it, deadpan, explain it like you really wanted a ZRX but all you could find was a CBX.

Awesome - that sounds like a blast.

That ZRX idea is awesome, I think we're going to go with something even a bit more subtle - a Honda FE50 green and black paint job. Smallest displacement honda paint on one of the largest displacement bikes. :v:

Ola
Jul 19, 2004

Have you considered vinyl wrap + stickers? The options you have these days and the quality of the result really makes it worth looking into. Plus of course it's undoable.

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Z3n
Jul 21, 2007

I think the point is Z3n is a space cowboy on the edge of a frontier unknown to man, he's out there pushing the limits, trail braking into the abyss. Finding out where the edge of the razor is, turning to face the darkness and revving his 690 into it's vast gaze. You gotta live this to learn it bro.

Ola posted:

Have you considered vinyl wrap + stickers? The options you have these days and the quality of the result really makes it worth looking into. Plus of course it's undoable.

It's an option, especially before all the stuff goes out for paint.

loving swingarm nut on the ZRX is seized to poo poo. Heat, penetrating oil, snapped adapters, still loving stuck in there. Might have to sawzall the loving thing out once I have the engine out. :(

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