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How deeply embedded in the Catholic doctrine (catechism?) is celibacy for the clergy? Is there any discussion about shifting positions on the topic like the super-slow roll with women in leadership roles? Maybe allowing married priests could reduce some of the self-selection by confirmed bachelors with intimacy problems. I know that the current pope has been verbally signalling that forbidding and shaming homosexuality isn't a priority for him, although not enough to do anything about it, and of course preying on children should always be deplored. Admittedly, this all probably leads to a much wider conversation than one branch of the Church's lack of accountability and face-saving coverups though. Also I can't help thinking that if canon law was enough to control the pedophilic priests they wouldn't face any kind of legal repercussions for their crimes. Seems kind of messed up from a rule of law standpoint. No matter how softly secular America steps around ecclesiastical issues Minnesota isn't technically supposed to be a theocracy.
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Jun 16, 2015 05:55
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Pope Guilty posted:It's always kind of fascinating (and infuriating) to see that current of thought among the Catholic hierarchy that regards the Church as above the law. There's ample precedent of course. Religious/cultural subsets of larger populations (Jewish ghettos, Mennonite farms, meta-Mormon polygamous fuckacademies etc.) often demand to treat their adherents with their own special laws and other autonomies as long as they keep out of the way and pay their taxes. I'm sure there's a fistful of Law & Order episodes based on that alone. OwlFancier posted:Team America World Judiciary System would be interesting certainly. Then we'd have to agree to be subject to our own laws when other countries call us out on it, and we all know that ain't gonna happen. ThaGhettoJew fucked around with this message at 07:39 on Jun 16, 2015 |
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Jun 16, 2015 07:37
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System Metternich posted:I'm not too sure about celibacy and the self-selection following it being the cause for the abuse of children by priests, though. The John-Jay study of 2005 came to the conclusion that the most cases of abuse occurred during the 60s and 70s and have been continuously on the decrease since then, while the obligation to celibacy remained. German studies have shown that 0,1% of all cases of children abuse were perpetrated by celibate men. As Catholic priests constitute 0.05% of all German men between 20 and 80, but do not represent the totality of celibate men in Germany, it seems that celibaby can't be linked to a more frequent occurence of abuse cases. Some have also stated that the referral to celibacy is a popular defence tactic for the accused - buying into the celibacy->abuse explanation (even though it lacks empirical affirmation) then would mean indirectly supporting the culprit and his excuses. I wasn't trying to suggest that celibacy led to pedophilia or anything like that, just that since the job required people to renounce "normal" sexual behavior that those willing to go into the priesthood as a calling would be more likely to be populated by those who weren't already tied to or interested in adult relationships. I don't think those sexually interested in children are driven that way by sexual abstinence or being gay or whatever but are rather a whole different animal entirely. Whether it stems from psychological damage or sociopathy or some sort of hosed up switch in their brains I don't have an opinion. And on further reflection that the RCC isn't statistically much more tainted by pedos than the general population doesn't surprise me much. Religion calls to a lot of different people for as many different reasons as any other large social group. The problem in this case stems mostly from their singular authority over vulnerable targets and the kids' support groups and afterlives. All that is combined with a general lack of oversight, an institutional desire to not address embarrassing problems, and no real follow-through once the bare minimum of attention is paid so any issues can be quickly forgotten. Got another doctrinal question about the RCC's position on the Confession and presumed Absolution by these priests. As I understand it their confession heals their souls of damage, as long as was contrite and any assigned penitence was done, and thus puts them back on the up and up with the Holy Trinity. Are they then supposed to go to the secular authorities and turn themselves in for any crimes against Earthly law? Are they still subject to it or are they completely cleansed of the crime like it didn't happen? Do serious crimes not require rendering secular justice unto Caesar as well? Maybe it's just up to the guy setting the penance. I suppose that The Church has its own obligation to protect its reputation from outside criticism since they sort of represent Christianity as a whole (other sects notwithstanding). But they seem to be taking a stance on how to handle sexual predators that doesn't jibe well with that of our criminal justice system or the American Psychiatric Association. That last article about the Haselberger accusation had this interesting passage, "The national office of SNAP has called for the seizure of church officials' passports to keep them from traveling to Rome and taking shelter from prosecution at the Vatican." Had they tried that the Church would be under a whole different kind of public pressure.
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Jun 16, 2015 12:17
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Best Friends posted:Celibacy must be maintained because without it priests will pass along church property and fiefs to their sons, and heck, we can't totally prove celibacy correlates with weirdos since we have too little data. Great , solid arguments for celibacy. Priests with girlfriends and wives in their flocks might treat them differently than normal parishioners? The priests couldn't be good Confessors for their own families? Getting your dick wet makes it unholy because lust is inherently sinful? Wait, you said good arguments. No idea. Maybe something to do with benefits packages or other HR concerns. Although it probably has something to do with having such relationships means focusing your life too much on Earthly considerations instead of Godly ones.
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Jun 18, 2015 00:26
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