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Two reasons comparing FF14 PvP to DAoC is silly: First, your faction choice effected what class and race you could choose, what areas you PvE'd in, and what players you could do non-PvP content with. It was a central feature of the game. Meanwhile, in this game, your faction determines which ugly set of hunt gear you can acquire and is otherwise a complete non-issue that has almost zero impact on anything except your PvP queues. Second, the only thing to do in DAoC was PvP. It is what the game was designed around. You hit max level and then either sat on your hands, rolled an alt, or went out and rolled around the neutral zone killing dudes. Playing DAoC and not doing PvP was somewhere on the level of people who play FF14 and only craft. It happened but it was by far the minority group. The only reasons to have GC-locked PvE are narrative, and those are bad reasons to make an underutilized game system shittier than it has to be.
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Jul 17, 2015 23:24
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Fister Roboto posted:No, it's not a perfect comparison, but what matters is that having three factions as opposed to two is not a game-breaker. Especially since you can switch between them very easily. I thought we were arguing for not having the factions at all as opposed to having three factions that people choose rather arbitrarily. Doesn't switching also reset your PvP rank? I wouldn't call that "easily" with the level of grinding involved.
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Jul 18, 2015 01:28
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I'd just like to mention that whoever said the red dot blinks faster depending on your threat lead was full of poo poo
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Jul 18, 2015 20:04
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EponymousMrYar posted:It only blinks on enmity change. I think it's restricted to you hitting it since I don't remember things blinking all that fast in 8 man content when hitting the boss. Regardless the white bars underneath your party member's icons is way better at telling you your enmity lead. If the enmity dot is red it blinks at a constant rate that isn't affected by literally anything.
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Jul 18, 2015 21:01
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Frog Act posted:Awesome. I saw they added DRK, is it similar to the FFXI version? No. It's a tank.
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Jul 18, 2015 23:23
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In my experience, equipping VIT is only especially useful if you would either die within 5 seconds otherwise, or you're doing big pulls in a 4man and want the healer to be able to get some damage off before they have to start dropping heal bombs on you. The thing is that HP has nothing to do with mitigation. Other than those two situations, equipping more VIT does not reduce the burden on the healer. You could have argued for it before, when Lustrate was % based and Stoneskin was 18% for WHM, but now almost every heal that hits you doesn't give a poo poo about what your maxHP is. So if you're taking damage that you can reasonably live through, putting on another 5000 health just means the healer can start casting cure later. If anything, strength actually reduces healer burden more than VIT does, because every tank has some self-healing ability that will scale from their attack power. Well, I think Clemency scales from attack power anyway. It's a pretty insignificant effect since tank HPS ends up being double digits or less, but it's an effect. What it comes down to is I see other tanks in VIT gear, and they don't die any less than I do but they do about two thirds the damage I do. I honestly do feel like this is a problem, since "focus on gear that makes you do more damage instead of gear that improves your eHP" is counter-intuitive, but I'm not sure what SE could do about it, unless they retooled a lot of defensive options to scale from VIT. Or gave tanks some attack power from VIT, which would be silly.
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Jul 19, 2015 05:56
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Pews posted:Piety is viable on DRK too, makes mana management easier. But that's just for the 'end-game' since its more of a meld choice. Expect Piety V materia price to go through the roof. Just in case anyone believes this: You would need to put on ~200 points worth of Piety just to hold one Siphon Strike worth of MP, and none of DRK's MP recovery scales with MP pool.
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Jul 19, 2015 15:55
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Willias posted:It's 4-5k HP, which depending on how you look at it, is an increase of 33% or a loss of 25% of your tank's total health pool. I just checked this for giggles: If I switch from 4 STR+1 VIT to 4 VIT+1 STR, my HP goes from 13431 to 15645
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Jul 19, 2015 16:29
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Shere posted:No, it won't. The left side gear gains VIT every time the item level increases too. That's where the bulk of your vitality comes from in the first place, and very likely where all necessary HP will come from as it always has. Well the absolute difference will increase but the relative difference will not change. Right side VIT will still be like 20% of your HP pool, but the actual amount of HP that is will go up.
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Jul 19, 2015 17:49
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ilifinicus posted:you're supposed to share the damage with the other tank until it splits, then you tank them in opposite directions so both tanks don't get hit by the stacks Usually I see groups share the slap damage with the entire party.
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Jul 19, 2015 19:47
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Eej posted:It's not because it will interrupt casts which drops DPS and healing. I haven't heard anyone complain of this before, but I've only been playing tank lately. Can anyone confirm that this happens?
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Jul 19, 2015 21:23
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bonewitch posted:^ getting hit with damage can cancel casts, I'm not sure if there's any mechanics to it beyond a random chance. It can be super frustrating though. Well I mean, some damage always interrupts, some damage seems to never interrupt, and some damage interrupts sometimes (which is annoying) I didn't know if it was an actual mechanics feature that the slaps caused interrupts, or if it was related to the damage level or something.
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Jul 19, 2015 22:21
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DizzyBum posted:I always seem to have issues with tanks facing him at the healers and watching them get cleaved into oblivion. That might be an issue similar to Shiva, wherein the EX version of the fight has a damage split mechanic which is just a regular cleave in the hard version. There's a single tank strat for RavEx that involves making the entire party eat Blinding Blade, which is probably a good way to wipe in RavHd
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Jul 21, 2015 16:45
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SwissArmyDruid posted:I don't even want a bar for TP. I don't even want a bar for MP. All I need is a loving percentage #, one in blue, one in orange. MP is red though?
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Jul 23, 2015 02:51
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Holyshoot posted:Play warrior if you enjoy not being allowed to hit any of your oGCD's because they will interrupt your 123. Uh, what?
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Jul 25, 2015 15:01
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Holyshoot posted:Whoops I was wrong but I am pretty sure drk version of over power is on the global cool down and doesn't interrupt your 123. As well as the aoe that you can dark arts to heal you. Basically drk have very few skills that interrupt their 123 which is what I was getting at. Number of GCD skills DRK has that don't interrupt a combo: 1 Number of GCD skills DRK has that do interrupt a combo: 3
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Jul 25, 2015 19:19
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Rei_ posted:Just off the top of my head: A lot of this is accurate but you realize that Grit is functionally identical to Shield Oath, which is better than Defiance as far as "how hard is it to keep this tank alive", right? Without considering cooldowns, the degree of tankiness for each tank on a mob that uses physical damage is PLD >> DRK > WAR. Where DRK stands right now is this: We have Shadowskin, which is literally Rampart. Then we have Shadow Wall, which is the shittiest take on "bigass defense cooldown" between the three tanks, since it has a CD like Sentinel but is only as strong as Vengeance. Then we have Dark Dance, which is hot garbage, and Dark Mind, which is great as long as the thing you need to defend against is magic damage. You have to burn a bunch of your MP to make it good, though, which is sort of awkward. Reprisal is mostly poo poo just because you have to parry before you can use it, so you can't necessarily use it when you want and you can't use it at all if you aren't taking physical hits. Their synergy with other classes is sort of weird, especially with WHM in 4 mans where a holy going off at the wrong time can mean you're out a ton of MP because Blood Price is kind of a terrible design in general. Their MP cycle is basically the opposite of BLM. You rapidly use up a bunch of MP, and then recover it kind of slowly (unless you're tanking a pack of mobs that haven't been stunned and you have Blood Price up). This doesn't feel great and sometimes leaves you in a bad situation if you didn't plan ahead or accidentally hit Dark Arts one too many times before some adds spawn. They are annoying to play during add-focused fights, especially in full party duties. See, adds mean "you probably need to AoE a lot", which is fine. As long as the DRK is actually getting hit. But you group up the mobs and both tanks are doing stuff and you may or may not have hate on many things and unlike the other two tanks, the resource you use for AoE does not naturally regenerate (and in fact constantly drains) unless you turn off Darkside, and the job is very much designed around "never turn off Darkside". So you have to do this weird balancing act where you try not to do so much AoE that you can't get enough MP for the next batch of mobs, but not so little that someone rips aggro. They also have the odd bit of design where they do not want to use their threat combo. PLD gets a good debuff from their threat combo, and for WAR it's the highest damage combo they have. For DRK, it's not the strongest combo, it has no special effects, and if they use it that's a combo that didn't give them MP, reducing their damage output even more. This was compensated for by giving them a higher threat multiplier in Grit than the other two tanks have, but if your DPS are actually good it's not necessarily enough, and it means once you've overgeared something enough to tank it without Grit you have to mix in a lot of Power Slash combos to keep threat, which doesn't feel very nice. I think their OT damage is actually pretty OK since they get access to Blood Weapon when Grit is off, so they can pump out a lot of DA Souleaters. Their OT combos are not especially less interesting than WAR; You do 123 if you can spend MP on Darkside and 124 if you can't, mixing in oGCDs as they come up. We also have what I think are the second (Salted Earth, 525 total potency, oGCD, placed AoE, 47% maximum uptime due to CD) and third (Scourge, weaponskill, 500 total potency) strongest DoTs in the game. Basically, DRK isn't as bad off compared to the other two tanks as WAR was to PLD when the game launched, but they are definitely the red headed stepchild of the tanks at the moment. Living Dead can eat a dick, though.
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Jul 25, 2015 21:09
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I will stand by my statement that Dark Dance is not very good. For a class that actually has things that trigger from parrying, why would you give them a +30% parry skill while DRGs get +80%, crossclass LNC gets what, +40%? And WAR gets +100% from the front. Meanwhile, using Dark Arts on Dark Dance is literally useless against 8-man bosses. It's not that DRK is a broken job, it's just that there's not really a lot of reasons to use one instead of the PLD/WAR battery. And if I had to sum up the difference in gameplay experience using a bad analogy, PLD and WAR are like shaving your face with a regular razor, and then DRK is like shaving your face with a regular razor except for some reason you're gripping it by holding it between the heels of your palms and sometimes you drop it and refuse to pick it up with anything other than your feet. Eej posted:The nice thing about Shelltron is that the best pre-Alex shield is the Hive Shield which is a Tower Shield and at 210 you have the option between a Kite Shield and a Tower Shield. The bad thing about Shelltron is that it could limit raid design by making Paladins way too good at dealing with physical tankbusters. This is also probably why they took away the STR scaling from shield blocks. Ibram Gaunt posted:In what world is delirium bad just because dragon kick exists? Monk has never been a required spot in a static and the whole point of it being on DRK is so you don't miss out l. It's actually great. The issue is that Delirium loses its utility if you have a MNK. If you have a WAR and a NIN, the WAR being there lets the NIN do more damage. If you have a DRK and a MNK, all it means is that one of the only party utility functions the DRK has is moot and the DRK will get a lot of "Delirium had no effect" messages. It's still the highest damage combo DRK has without spending MP though. Klades fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jul 26, 2015 |
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Jul 26, 2015 00:43
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Shaezerus posted:I like Dark Knight because it gives me a cat helmet, a laser cannon for a ranged pull in case my rad front flip is on cooldown, and lightsaber noises. I don't know what you guys' problem is. I feel like I should make something clear, because I always gloss over it when considering the DRK's faults and issues. Plunge is the best button in the entire game.
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Jul 26, 2015 02:17
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In the interests of making posts about bad game design, I thought I'd list off the changes I thought of for DRK if the gates of hell opened up and I had input on job design:
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Jul 26, 2015 18:14
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sethimothy posted:Another question, and it may or may not be dumb: when crafting, do I have to pay attention to the time, the alignment of the moon and stars, the way my character is facing, the way I the player am facing, the or the number of coffee grounds in my cup in order to keep from completely ruining the craft, a la FF11? Or can I just pay attention to the prompts as they appear on screen? I'd just like to point out that all of those things you listed were in fact bullshit hocus pocus even back in FF11. The only things that effected your success rate were your crafting skill level and what ingame day it was. Here the only RNG factors are when you try to use abilities that have a less than 100% success rate (you will use these a lot) and whether the next step will be Good, Normal, or Excellent. When a step succeeds the value increase is predictable based on your stats and buffs.
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Jul 27, 2015 04:50
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Obligatum VII posted:People keep saying this, but how the heck do all of you manage to avoid a place with a mender for so long that you'd ever need to self-repair? They're everywhere! As someone who has all their crafters at 50+, I honestly could not tell you where to find mender NPCs anymore because it's more expensive and less convenient than self repairing. You can go longer between repairs since self repair can set your durability higher than 100%, and when you open your character sheet and go "oh look at all that gear with green durability bars" you can just right click, click, click and you've repaired it all, instead of "well I should go find the nearest mender NPC!" and then having to interrupt whatever you were doing to go get your poo poo fixed. Plus I mean... people are lazy about things like repairs. I was doing A2 and as the last trash pull ended I watched the WAR's HP go from 18k to 13k. Half his poo poo broke and he didn't have any crafters leveled so he had to leave the instance.
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Jul 27, 2015 05:35
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nuru posted:If you are deaf or have no audio is staring at the bobber / rod light the only way to fish? A controller with rumble is the optimal way to do it even if you can hear it, in my experience.
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Aug 2, 2015 20:31
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Vermain posted:Speaking of DRK AoE: What're the situations where you want to use Unleash vs. Abyssal Drain? Is Abyssal better for initial AoE enmity generation? They both do the same enmity. I use Abyssal to pull if the mobs are close enough together. Then it gets used instead of Unleash on any fight where I think the fight will end before I have to worry about my MP or if the mobs are bunched up weird. Unleash is slightly more efficient (7.95 MP per potency at 60 instead of 8.1) and less visually noisy to look at. Dark Magic Sea Urchin is funny and all but holy poo poo you can't see anything while it's going off. That said, in one MP pool without Blood Price or anything you're looking at 8 Unleash vs 7 Abyssal Drain, which is 40 potency in favor of Drain. I also almost never bother with DA Abyssal Drain because the amount you heal is almost never worth tripling the cost of the thing. Klades fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Aug 3, 2015 |
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Aug 3, 2015 02:15
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Obligatum VII posted:Seems to me that, aside from being a spike heal on a large pull (I can see niche cases where dark arts could be worth it, but generally I'd agree that it currently doesn't justify the cost. Maybe if it got a solid potency boost too?), the main use for abyssal drain is having a ranged AoE pull, which is unique to DRK unless I'm forgetting something. There are plenty of fights where adds will spawn in a cluster together at some distance from you where unleash won't reach and it's a faster way to nab all of them at once than individual unmends while being much safer than trying to run over and unleash. Generally in A2 I find that I have plenty of time to just walk into the middle of the mobs and Unleash. In some cases hitting the full pack with Abyssal would involve wrestling with the lovely targeting system in this game so it's faster to just walk into them. The exception is picking up the two Jags that spawn next to each other toward the end, I usually fling an Abyssal at them if I'm grabbing south adds. kafziel posted:What are the hard numbers for enmity potency on all the Dark Knight stuff, out of curiosity? I can't get the enmity overlay plugin to work for whatever reason, so this is secondhand info, but: Grit is 2.3x enmity Spinning Slash is 3x (1397 enmity potency with Grit+Darkside) Power Slash is 5.5x (3491) DA Power Slash is 6.5x (4126) Unmend is 3x (952) Unleash is 6x (1656) Abyssal is 5x (1656)
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Aug 3, 2015 04:00
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Mr. Nice! posted:No other physical class has to give up DPS to regain TP. Dark Knight
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Aug 3, 2015 17:52
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Ciaphas posted:I was led to understand a few weeks ago when I got DRK to 60 that this was how they were supposed to do things, since it's more damage whether you use Delirium or DA Souleater, and they seem to have no trouble keeping ahead on threat anyway. This. We're in the same boat as PLD where our big threat combo is not our highest damage combo, and then it doesn't even have a debuff or anything on it. You only ever want to use it if threat is going sour for some reason. Power Slash combo: 670 total potency, generates a lot of enmity Delirium combo: 680 total potency, restores MP, INT debuff if you don't have a monk Souleater combo: 660 total potency, restores MP, restores HP if you're in Grit DA Souleater combo: 800 total potency, costs MP, restores HP if you're in Grit If Power Slash did anything it might be worth using, but maximizing your damage as DRK is about maximizing your MP generation so you can pop your oGCDs as they come up and DA Souleater as much as possible, so you want every combo to be a Siphon Strike combo. The only time I bother with Power Slash is if the DPS is actually crazy good and I might actually lose threat, or if I'm on some easy boss that I don't need -20% damage taken for. You get more DPS by dropping Grit and using some Power Slash to make up the threat difference.
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Aug 3, 2015 20:17
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kafziel posted:Potency is a tricky bitch. It means different things for different classes - just because they're the same potency doesn't mean they're doing comparable damage. Fell Cleave is only 50 potency more than DA Carve and Spit but the Warrior in my FC is still getting around three times as much damage out of it. The same potency means the same damage from the same stats and buffs, actually. The catch is that WAR can press a button and do 50% more damage for 25 seconds, on top of their +20% for Maim and +10% for Storm's Eye. All DRK has is +15% from Darkside.
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Aug 4, 2015 01:23
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I somehow feel like we've had this "armor vs weapon" conversation before. They're doing another 14-hour Anniversary stream. I wonder what the challenges are going to consist of since there's no atma grind yet. Klades fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 13:45
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Spaceman Future! posted:I got my bard body first.. and gonna get head next, then weapon Everyone knows bard buys pants first.  Also relics are a good two or three months off, 3.1 isn't until October at the earliest. Klades fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Aug 4, 2015 |
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Aug 4, 2015 23:04
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Ciaphas posted:It's really hard to look cool in your fancy new glamoured duds and shiny greatsword when you're like two feet tall, though.  This is false. Also, for all the talk of being too small to see glamours, potatoes are much better off in terms of looks than the proto-potatoes (otherwise known as tarutaru), since their proportions were roughly analogous to a weeble with a neck.
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Aug 6, 2015 19:36
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 Whelp.
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Aug 8, 2015 23:10
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Leveling all your crafters to 50 is a great idea. Beyond that you don't really need to level them anymore unless you're just really into that. Although leveling leatherworker a bit can be nice if you have combat class retainers, since you can turn the skins into leathers which generally is more profitable than just selling the skins outright.
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Aug 9, 2015 02:21
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RuanGacho posted:It seems like a simple enough fix to just reduce the cost of hard slash and that in itself might be enough to balance their TP issues, just making it cost 60 instead of 70 would make it different from the other two tanks but might be enough to lower its cost over time. Presently, 190 TP is used per combo. Disregarding skill speed (which only makes things worse), you get one combo per 7.5 seconds and regenerate 60 TP per 3 seconds (I think?). In 15 seconds you consume 380 TP while generating 300, for a net loss of 80. A bit over three minutes and the TP is gone. If we change it so that Hard Slash is only 60 TP, then it changes to 180 TP per combo, and now the net loss is 60. Now the TP runs out after four minutes. So that's better, but it's still kind of not great. It's an issue inherent to TP; unless you're a job that has a TP restore that you aren't already using correctly, you can't really do anything about when you run out other than do less DPS or ask for goad/paeon/the MCH thing. TP costs are generally about the same range (except for aoe and ranged skills costing more), and if you're not pressing buttons you're doing things wrong.
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Aug 10, 2015 02:29
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Ciaphas posted:Ok fine literally worse in every respect except being off GCD then, sheesh. I'm trying to be sad about how annoying running out of TP is, here. It also restores exactly as much MP as Siphon Strike does. If they were going to band-aid DRK TP by just tossing "give me TP" on an ability I would want to see it somewhere like... DA Dark Dance is +parry and TP regen instead of +parry +dodge.
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Aug 10, 2015 05:36
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Doublestep posted:tying DRK's tp restore to a defensive cooldown is stupid as hell because it makes it completely worthless for offtank drks, which is where the TP problem arises almost exclusively in content that matters I'm not sure why putting "when this is active you regain TP" on a button that is otherwise useless while offtanking makes it worthless for offtanking? In general though, I think it'd be better if the system was entirely changed so that everyone's core rotation was TP neutral or TP positive and there were some buttons that cost a huge amount of TP but were comparatively very strong. Like, double or triple the cost of One Ilm Punch but make it 300 potency or something.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:19
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The answer is that if you can get 7 competent people and are a DPS, you could probably go naked. Otherwise you probably want your upgraded law weapon at least.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:46
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If it wasn't for mobs that don't do physical damage, I would say a good "fix" for PLD threat would be to take Shield Swipe off the GCD, make it cost no TP, and give it a cooldown of 10 seconds or so. Speaking of mobs that don't do physical damage, I think it would be interesting if they gave PLD a toggle that significantly reduced their blocking stats in exchange for making shield block work on magic instead of physical damage. For DRK, I still think they should just add something to Power Slash to make it more attractive to use. We've got one tank with their threat combo as their max potency combo, and one tank with a debuff on their threat combo, so throwing a buff on Power Slash would give it its own twist, instead of its current state of "it's poo poo and it doesn't do anything".
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Aug 11, 2015 17:00
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Niton posted:Darkside's more of a toggle than a passive, I guess, but Maim absolutely is a passive - even without the combo bonus, it'd still be part of your highest DPS rotation thanks to Storm's Eye. It doesn't necessarily need one either. If PLD needs to do more damage there are ways to accomplish that without going "here is something very similar to what the other tanks have", like buffing FoF, buffing Spirits Within, or changing Shield Oath to -15% damage or something. Mr. Nice! posted:What I'd like to see is the goring blade combo with the same enmity generation that storm's path and eye get and a buff to shield bash by 30 potency so it isn't a dps loss anymore. Path and Eye combos don't have bonus enmity.
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Aug 11, 2015 22:21
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The threat problems are pretty straightforward. DRK is a huge threat mountain for trash because they can dump Unleash all day and still be ready to go for the next pull because of Blood Price. WAR can supplement their Overpower spam with some TP-free Steel Cyclone. PLD has damage-less Flash as their only real AoE threat, and because they can't rapidly recover it like DRK and don't have access to TP based AoE like WAR, they have to ration their Flash use to make sure they don't have to pause between pulls. Plus Flash is gross because it doesn't contribute to things dying. On single target, DRK and PLD both have the same problem, which is that maximizing their personal performance involves not using their threat combo. In Deliverance, without buffs a WAR rotating Eye and BB won't pull from a PLD that's just using Royal Authority. Throw in Goring Blade and it gets slightly shakier, but throw in Berserk and you're suddenly dropping 2.2k potency of enmity per BB and if the PLD isn't throwing some Halones around that's not going to work out. With a DRK, though, even without Berserk you'll probably pull ahead if the DRK doesn't use Power Slash, because neither of the combos they want to use have any +enmity, while RA at least has Savage Blade with its 3x mod.
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Aug 11, 2015 23:17
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