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Keith Stone posted:Still kinda sucks considering that was 150 years ago. Your mom at a klan rally was 150 years ago? Your mom is old
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Jun 22, 2015 21:36
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Keith Stone posted:I am from the South. If you tell your white grandparents you are either going to marry a black christian or a white atheist they will seize up and fall over like a robot, true story
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Jun 22, 2015 21:38
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Keith Stone posted:
Good news: nobody is going to murder you about it.
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Jun 22, 2015 21:40
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Mormon Star Wars posted:If you tell your white grandparents you are either going to marry a black christian or a white atheist they will seize up and fall over like a robot, true story If you present it as a choice between these two options, guess which one they will magically reconcile themselves to
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Jun 22, 2015 21:49
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Ogmius815 posted:I don't know about hanged, but the government took Lee's land and made it into a graveyard for war dead. That seems fair. And the guy in charge of doing it buried his son who died in combat in Lee's wife's rose garden.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:33
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Keith Stone posted:I am from the South. Come on dude. I lived in Georgia for years. Racism is supported and encouraged there, open and shut.
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Jun 22, 2015 22:58
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Poll is missing Wade Hampton:quote:Wade Hampton, the other leading candidate for a spring hanging in the wake of Apomattox, was, if you can believe it, even worse than Forrest. At least Forrest was a self-made monster; Hampton was a rich boy, the son of the South’s leading slave-holder. Hampton’s family owned more than 3,000 human beings, but rich didn’t mean pampered in the planters’ world. Wade Hampton III was not pampered. His hobby was hunting bears. With a knife. None of these guys were pampered. In fact, you feel a lot fonder of pampered, soft people after reading about these monsters. https://pando.com/2015/04/10/war-nerd-the-confederates-who-shouldve-been-hanged/
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Jun 22, 2015 23:10
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It's a real pity that Lincoln and the liberal Republicans mostly controlled the war effort. Just imagine how much better the South might be today if Charles Sumner and Thaddeus Stephens had been given a freer hand and more time to smash apart the planter aristocracy and strengthen the hand of the Freedmen. It's a real pity how gently the South got treated and the extent to which they were allowed to continue on as though nothing had happened. We know from the first few years of reconstruction that it would have been possible to rebuild the South along radically different lines using the power of the federal government, but unfortunately once the immediate danger was passed the American ruling class recognized that it was better for them to let the South remain a shithole rather than creating too many dangerous precedents for strong government action.
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Jun 22, 2015 23:24
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Hesh Ballantine posted:Poll is missing Wade Hampton: Look if we're going to start listing all the folks who deserved a rendezvous with mme. guillotine after the rebellion was quashed we'll be here until 2016
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Jun 22, 2015 23:39
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Helsing posted:
It's not only that the South got treated gently, THEY GOT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE loving WAR.
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Jun 22, 2015 23:39
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Mooseontheloose posted:It's not only that the South got treated gently, THEY GOT TO REWRITE THE WHOLE loving WAR. That wasn't just the south. From 1860-1890, civil war history wasn't looked at like it was from 1890 to, hell, today. As that sort of segregation era horrible racism came to prominence, hating black people was the run of the mill white opinion all over the country. That went hand in hand with undermining black heroes and people like John Brown, and the nobility of championing equal rights for everyone regardless of color being portrayed as insanity or naivety. Which is what eventually lead into the south being portrayed almost as victims like it is in Gone With the Wind.
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Jun 22, 2015 23:45
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Maybe we should just be glad enough that the South was dumb enough to give Lincoln everything he needed to declare war on them. Imagine how much worse the USA would be today if the northern bourgeoisie hadn't been given an excuse to drag the South kicking and screaming into the modern era. Most of the foundations of Americans economy had to be laid during the time period when the Southern states had no representation in Congress and many of those policies had been championed by the Whigs for literally decades but opposed by Southerners who 1) were perfectly happy to be a backwards agrarian society exporting raw resources to Europe and who 2) feared that a government strong enough to build internal improvements or regulate trade would also be a government strong enough to potentially challenge slavery as an institution. Even what little harsh treatment as the South received only came about because of a gigantic miscalculation on the part of the planter aristocracy. If they'd staid within the Union they probably could have eviscerated most of Lincoln's agenda and the South would have retained even more influence and power for much longer than it did.
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Jun 22, 2015 23:50
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Keith Stone posted:I am from the South. I think we should revise the one drop rule for southerners where if anyone in your family owned slaves (because the poor southern whites were hosed over by them so get a pass just this once) you should be forever treated as an honorary black person. Oh, is that not fair? Maybe you should magically not be black anymore if you want fair.
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Jun 23, 2015 03:01
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The Confederate flag looks a lot cooler than the American flag.
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Jun 23, 2015 04:45
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Thug Lessons posted:The Confederate flag looks a lot cooler than the American flag.  It actually doesn't though, it just got the benefit of a 20th century reworking for its redeployment against integration.
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Jun 23, 2015 04:55
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Abner Cadaver II posted:
You know what I mean, nerd.
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Jun 23, 2015 05:02
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Also that still looks better than the US flag.
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Jun 23, 2015 05:02
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Yeah the nazi flag looks pretty cool too, and like the battle flag it gains panache when it is on fire.
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Jun 23, 2015 05:36
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The Nazi flag does look cool.
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Jun 23, 2015 05:56
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Thug Lessons posted:The Nazi flag does look cool. Their ideology was pretty cool too, huh? Yeah, you love it.
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Jun 23, 2015 06:03
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The CSA flag is a goddamn vexillological nightmare, largely because its obsession with whiteness is as ugly as its nation's.
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Jun 23, 2015 06:48
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Thug Lessons posted:The Confederate flag looks a lot cooler than the American flag. infinitely cooler. it may be the symmetry
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Jun 23, 2015 07:56
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Thug Lessons posted:The Nazi flag does look cool. Pretty much all the Fascist/Communist flags from Victoria 2 looks cooler than their normal counterparts
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Jun 23, 2015 08:42
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Flip Yr Wig posted:The CSA flag is a goddamn vexillological nightmare, largely because its obsession with whiteness is as ugly as its nation's. Probably why, in the final version, they removed everything else. 
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Jun 23, 2015 08:48
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Flip Yr Wig posted:The CSA flag is a goddamn vexillological nightmare, largely because its obsession with whiteness is as ugly as its nation's. They at least took care to separate the colours with metals.
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Jun 23, 2015 09:37
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Gorilla Salad posted:Probably why, in the final version, they removed everything else. a great post
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Jun 23, 2015 09:38
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xENokpt6I Burn down the South.
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Jun 23, 2015 09:46
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Gorilla Salad posted:Probably why, in the final version, they removed everything else. 
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Jun 23, 2015 10:59
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Venomous posted:tbh I blame Andrew Johnson for loving up Reconstruction I feel like this is a refrain I have been hearing for years, but I am admittedly not well-read on the matter. Could someone throw a link or two out there for more reading or maybe just a half-hearted effort post I can interpret?
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Jun 23, 2015 11:59
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A Winner is Jew posted:I think we should revise the one drop rule for southerners where if anyone in your family owned slaves (because the poor southern whites were hosed over by them so get a pass just this once) you should be forever treated as an honorary black person. Heck, I'd take that. Honorary Person of Color? Sign me up!
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Jun 23, 2015 13:11
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Potooweet posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xENokpt6I (PLEASE DOWNLOAD MY WHITE POWER PRISON GAME)
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Jun 23, 2015 13:57
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seiferguy posted:Is hanging truly an appropriate way to execute confederate leaders? Hanging is for common criminals; soldiers and the aristocracy aren't supposed to be hanged. They get the firing squad or the guillotine, respectively. And that's why you hang them.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:01
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More White Noise posted:I feel like this is a refrain I have been hearing for years, but I am admittedly not well-read on the matter. Could someone throw a link or two out there for more reading or maybe just a half-hearted effort post I can interpret? Andrew Johnson didn't have the heart to see Reconstruction through, and the Southern states were given back political power much faster than they deserved, which resulted in political obstructionism and appeals to the Democratic party which helped yank the teeth out of Reconstruction.
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Jun 23, 2015 14:03
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More White Noise posted:I feel like this is a refrain I have been hearing for years, but I am admittedly not well-read on the matter. Could someone throw a link or two out there for more reading or maybe just a half-hearted effort post I can interpret? If you really want to know how and why reconstruction failed, you really should pick up Eric Foner's book by the same name, or at least A Short History of Reconstruction, since the full work is admittedly pretty long. Gorilla Salad posted:Probably why, in the final version, they removed everything else. 
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Jun 23, 2015 19:06
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CommieGIR posted:Andrew Johnson didn't have the heart to see Reconstruction through, and the Southern states were given back political power much faster than they deserved, which resulted in political obstructionism and appeals to the Democratic party which helped yank the teeth out of Reconstruction. Johnson's obstructionism led to veto-proof majorities of Radical Republicans and he was one vote from being impeached so that's not exactly accurate.
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Jun 23, 2015 21:21
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I think they should have dug up stonewall jackson and hung him just like that one pope during the renaissance.
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Jun 23, 2015 21:26
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Brown v. Board was real bad for racists and klansmen, so the battle flag was a powerful symbol to bring out the attic. It was sitting next to Dredd Scott and Tuskegee, they just had to shake the dust off a bit.
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Jun 23, 2015 21:37
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I learned a while ago that I am descendant of Stonewall Jackson. It is an interesting piece of trivia for me but it seems like there are quite a few people who derive actual pride from being the descendant of Confederates and are somehow emotionally invested in making sure nobody badmouths grandpappy's fight. What's that about?
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Jun 23, 2015 21:47
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Also does anyone else think that Ken Burns' Civil War gave way too much airtime to weepy neo-Confederate Southerners?
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Jun 23, 2015 21:50
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Watermelon City posted:I learned a while ago that I am descendant of Stonewall Jackson. It is an interesting piece of trivia for me but it seems like there are quite a few people who derive actual pride from being the descendant of Confederates and are somehow emotionally invested in making sure nobody badmouths grandpappy's fight. What's that about? One of my ancestors fought in the American-Indian war on the side of the Indians. He was a crazy berserker frontiersman, and his favorite weapons were his knife and hatchet. I can be proud of my ancestors; they were tough mother fuckers and everything seems to indicate they were almost always on the right side of history.
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Jun 24, 2015 00:01
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