Worse to Fly the Confederate Flag or Burn it?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Worse to Fly the Confederate Flag or Burn it?

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Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

ToastyPotato posted:

Well then those people are choosing to be willfully ignorant and there isn't anything that can be done about that. They are going to willingly associate themselves with racist imagery and that is that. The best society can do is move on without them.

I'd love to do that but as it turns out they still get a vote, the also raise their kids to believe the same so hoping they die out with time is unlikely.

# ? Jul 10, 2015 20:07

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# ? May 5, 2024 18:46

Mandy Thompson: Dec 26, 2014; by zen death robot

Speaking of hosed up flags

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/07/new_york_seal_whitesboro_white_man_chokes_american_indian.html

Amazingly this is not an onion article.

Above is the town seal, which dates back to the 19th century, of Whitesboro, New York. It depicts a white man throwing an American Indian man to the ground and looks like something that would be found in Parks and Recreation's satirically insensitive town of Pawnee. The image has been the subject of national discussion in relation to debates about the Confederate flag, and the Village Voice spoke to Whitesboro's mayor, Patrick O'Connor, about the issue for an article published Tuesday:
�I am aware that people are upset about it ... Some have reached out directly to me through my village email. And if they looked at the seal and went with an opinion based solely on what they�re looking at, I could understand why people would have concern about it. But, [as with] everything else, I think you have to take all the facts into consideration. And if people take the time to do that and they reach out to us, or they do the research themselves, it�s actually a very accurate depiction of friendly wrestling matches that took place back in those days.�

# ? Jul 10, 2015 20:13

Ron Paul Atreides: Apr 19, 2012; Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

Mandy Thompson posted:

Speaking of hosed up flags

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/07/new_york_seal_whitesboro_white_man_chokes_american_indian.html

Amazingly this is not an onion article.

Above is the town seal, which dates back to the 19th century, of Whitesboro, New York. It depicts a white man throwing an American Indian man to the ground and looks like something that would be found in Parks and Recreation's satirically insensitive town of Pawnee. The image has been the subject of national discussion in relation to debates about the Confederate flag, and the Village Voice spoke to Whitesboro's mayor, Patrick O'Connor, about the issue for an article published Tuesday:
“I am aware that people are upset about it ... Some have reached out directly to me through my village email. And if they looked at the seal and went with an opinion based solely on what they’re looking at, I could understand why people would have concern about it. But, [as with] everything else, I think you have to take all the facts into consideration. And if people take the time to do that and they reach out to us, or they do the research themselves, it’s actually a very accurate depiction of friendly wrestling matches that took place back in those days.”

satire is dead

# ? Jul 10, 2015 21:35

buckets of buckets: Apr 8, 2012; CHECK OUT MY AWESOME POSTS
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saying the confederate flag is solely a symbol of white power is like saying the cross is solely a method of execution from ancient rome

# ? Jul 10, 2015 22:11

Mia Wasikowska: Oct 7, 2006

Bitter Mushroom posted:

saying the confederate flag is solely a symbol of white power is like saying the cross is solely a method of execution from ancient rome

What is it the symbol of, in your opinion? Feel free to go on at length

# ? Jul 10, 2015 22:14

buckets of buckets: Apr 8, 2012; CHECK OUT MY AWESOME POSTS
https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3681373&pagenumber=114&perpage=40#post447051278

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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3818944&pagenumber=196&perpage=40#post472627338

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3788178&pagenumber=405&perpage=40#post474195694

https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3831643&pagenumber=5&perpage=40#post475694634

a region and culture, shits not complicated

# ? Jul 10, 2015 22:16

Zeroisanumber: Oct 23, 2010; Nap Ghost

Bitter Mushroom posted:

a region and culture, shits not complicated

Really? When was it that that region and culture started re-adopting the flag as a standard to rally around?

# ? Jul 10, 2015 22:22

Strawman: Feb 9, 2008; Tortuga means turtle, and that's me. I take my time but I always win.

Bitter Mushroom posted:

saying the confederate flag is solely a symbol of white power is like saying the cross is solely a method of execution from ancient rome

saying the confederate flag is mainly a symbol of white power is like saying the cross is mainly a symbol of christianity

Strawman fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Jul 10, 2015

# ? Jul 10, 2015 22:50

Ron Paul Atreides: Apr 19, 2012; Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

Bitter Mushroom posted:

saying the confederate flag is solely a symbol of white power is like saying the cross is solely a method of execution from ancient rome

pray tell, give us a timeline of when the meaning changed

# ? Jul 10, 2015 23:01

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Bitter Mushroom posted:

a region and culture, shits not complicated

# ? Jul 10, 2015 23:25

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

If you have to declare that any given symbol actually means something else in contention with what everyone else is saying, it probably means it doesn't mean what you think it does.

And you don't get to choose what it means.

# ? Jul 13, 2015 12:58

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Mandy Thompson posted:

Speaking of hosed up flags

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/07/new_york_seal_whitesboro_white_man_chokes_american_indian.html

Amazingly this is not an onion article.

Above is the town seal, which dates back to the 19th century, of Whitesboro, New York. It depicts a white man throwing an American Indian man to the ground and looks like something that would be found in Parks and Recreation's satirically insensitive town of Pawnee. The image has been the subject of national discussion in relation to debates about the Confederate flag, and the Village Voice spoke to Whitesboro's mayor, Patrick O'Connor, about the issue for an article published Tuesday:
“I am aware that people are upset about it ... Some have reached out directly to me through my village email. And if they looked at the seal and went with an opinion based solely on what they’re looking at, I could understand why people would have concern about it. But, [as with] everything else, I think you have to take all the facts into consideration. And if people take the time to do that and they reach out to us, or they do the research themselves, it’s actually a very accurate depiction of friendly wrestling matches that took place back in those days.”

huge differences. a municipality in NYC is not flying that flag to proclaim independence from the Union out of a desire to preserve and protect slavery, while confederate flag sympathizers do.

Each municipality can have its own racist flag, for a municipality is solidly lower in the hierarchy of civil institutional legitimacy than state and regional governance. The line is at the state level, as states have militias and organized force of arms to back up the symbols which they adhere to, while municipalities do not.

# ? Jul 13, 2015 17:17

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Mandy Thompson posted:

Speaking of hosed up flags

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/07/new_york_seal_whitesboro_white_man_chokes_american_indian.html

Amazingly this is not an onion article.

Above is the town seal, which dates back to the 19th century, of Whitesboro, New York. It depicts a white man throwing an American Indian man to the ground and looks like something that would be found in Parks and Recreation's satirically insensitive town of Pawnee. The image has been the subject of national discussion in relation to debates about the Confederate flag, and the Village Voice spoke to Whitesboro's mayor, Patrick O'Connor, about the issue for an article published Tuesday:
“I am aware that people are upset about it ... Some have reached out directly to me through my village email. And if they looked at the seal and went with an opinion based solely on what they’re looking at, I could understand why people would have concern about it. But, [as with] everything else, I think you have to take all the facts into consideration. And if people take the time to do that and they reach out to us, or they do the research themselves, it’s actually a very accurate depiction of friendly wrestling matches that took place back in those days.”

The best part of this story is that there have been two attempts to change the seal, one of which was successful. Yes, you read that right - the current version of the seal was adopted in the 1970s, after an Indian tribe successfully sued them over the seal. Rather than changing to a new seal, they altered the seal by the minimum amount necessary to comply with the terms of the lawsuit - in the pre-lawsuit seal, the white settler's arms were around the native's neck.

http://m.uticaod.com/article/20090104/News/301049981

quote:

A decade after then-Mayor Joseph Malecki suggested changing the village’s potentially offensive image, current officials say the Whitesboro village seal is staying just the way it is for the foreseeable future.

The seal, which appears on village stationary, police cars and the village Web site, among other places, depicts Whitesboro founder Hugh White and an Indian wrestling.

But the action taking place between them is not always clear. Some say White is pushing or tripping the Indian, others say that he’s choking him.

In reality, Mayor Richard Pugh said, the seal portrays a legendary, friendly wrestling match that White won, thereby gaining the local Indians’ respect.

“It’s a seal that takes a little explaining,” Pugh said about the image that dates back to at least the early 1900s.

The debate

Village trustee Margaret Stephenson was on the village board in 1999 when Malecki suggested a contest to replace the village seal with another image. No alternatives were put forward, however, so the board chose to keep the original symbol, she said.

“I think it was because some of the residents brought it up that they wanted it changed. … But the board voted it down,” she said. “And I think that once we explained it to some of the people, they accepted it.”

Both Stephenson and Pugh said they have not heard any complaints about the seal since then.

Most Whitesboro residents recently asked about the seal said they didn’t know what it looked like. Many said they had no opinion once the image was described to them.

One resident, however, said she thought the image was fine given its historical significance.

“I remember reading about Hugh White, and he had a good relationship with the Indians, so I would believe the wrestling thing,” Barbara Gould said.

Whitesboro historian Judy Mallozzi said the current seal was adopted sometime in the 1970s after the village was sued by an Indian group over the depiction at that time.

“The hands of Hugh White were on his neck area,” she said of the earlier image. “So after the lawsuit, it was determined it’s part of our history, so we didn’t have to stop using the seal. We just had to move it, so it’s down on his shoulders.”

# ? Jul 13, 2015 20:54

Martin Random: Jul 18, 2003; by FactsAreUseless

#NoFlaggingChallenge

There is now a trend going viral of people ripping down confederate flags they see in public and posting the act on social media.

Is there any more direct a display of powerlessness of an ideology?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdQ2B8aPiCc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onkGh8h_WhM

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/2015/0713/NoFlaggingChallenge-dares-people-to-tear-down-others-Confederate-flags

quote:

For those who find the decline in support for the Confederate battle flag to be proceeding too slowly, here's an alternative that is quick, direct, illegal, and likely to provoke rage.

The No Flagging Challenge dares people to destroy privately owned Confederate battle flags displayed on people's homes and vehicles.

According to the hashtag tracking site Keyhole, the tag #NoFlaggingChallenge appeared Sunday with most of its activity coming from Vine. About two thirds of those posting the videos are male. A similar tag #ConfederateTakedown is also popular on Twitter, but that tag is mainly geared towards legally removing the flags from public buildings.

# ? Jul 13, 2015 22:40

A Wizard of Goatse: Dec 14, 2014

Mandy Thompson posted:

Speaking of hosed up flags

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/07/07/new_york_seal_whitesboro_white_man_chokes_american_indian.html

Amazingly this is not an onion article.

Above is the town seal, which dates back to the 19th century, of Whitesboro, New York. It depicts a white man throwing an American Indian man to the ground and looks like something that would be found in Parks and Recreation's satirically insensitive town of Pawnee. The image has been the subject of national discussion in relation to debates about the Confederate flag, and the Village Voice spoke to Whitesboro's mayor, Patrick O'Connor, about the issue for an article published Tuesday:
�I am aware that people are upset about it ... Some have reached out directly to me through my village email. And if they looked at the seal and went with an opinion based solely on what they�re looking at, I could understand why people would have concern about it. But, [as with] everything else, I think you have to take all the facts into consideration. And if people take the time to do that and they reach out to us, or they do the research themselves, it�s actually a very accurate depiction of friendly wrestling matches that took place back in those days.�

Honestly if the Confederate flag was like a seal with a white guy riding a chained-up black dude around like a pony whip in one hand whiskey bottle in the other, my reaction would probably be more 'yeah, seems about right'

Main Paineframe posted:

The best part of this story is that there have been two attempts to change the seal, one of which was successful. Yes, you read that right - the current version of the seal was adopted in the 1970s, after an Indian tribe successfully sued them over the seal. Rather than changing to a new seal, they altered the seal by the minimum amount necessary to comply with the terms of the lawsuit - in the pre-lawsuit seal, the white settler's arms were around the native's neck.

http://m.uticaod.com/article/20090104/News/301049981

gahaha no mercy

# ? Jul 14, 2015 01:22

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

Honestly if the Confederate flag was like a seal with a white guy riding a chained-up black dude around like a pony whip in one hand whiskey bottle in the other, my reaction would probably be more 'yeah, seems about right'

Don't do down the effects of good whiskey on the war.

# ? Jul 14, 2015 01:40

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# ? May 5, 2024 18:46

Rassle: Dec 4, 2011

Martin Random posted:

#NoFlaggingChallenge

There is now a trend going viral of people ripping down confederate flags they see in public and posting the act on social media.

It'll only be a matter of time before somebody gets shot.

# ? Jul 14, 2015 02:34

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Worse to Fly the Confederate Flag or Burn it?

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