|
centaurtainment posted:Honestly the only thing I remember about that movie is the great abortion scene. Otherwise it was very "meh" and wholly unnecessary. Agreed but for all movies ever made ever
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:43 |
|
|
Immortan posted:Also, there are overtly modern political & social themes throughout each of Blomkamp's movies that I hope he doesn't bring to the Alien series. Dogg have you even heard of the Alien movies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 18:14
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:There's nothing I' d enjoy more than a three page derail about Prometheus( I watched it again this weekend, FYI its still amazing), but I think I'm probably the only one. I never get tired of discussing that film. Lots of people including me think it's awesome. I like the visual design and the ideas quite a bit but I don't get tripped up in things like the map-maker being lost or Idris Elba not getting convincing dialogue, as those to me are secondary to the spectacle. Ditto Interstellar and the power of love, which also drew a lot of ire from here. To me, the whole "a space SOS means any ship even if it's crewed by 7 space truckers must stop and investigate" to be an exceedingly stupid concept to kick off the franchise to begin with, but it doesn't stop Alien from looking great and having some fun ideas and being scary. Prometheus had its own balancing act there as well. The med pod scene in particular was wonderful even given the complaints about her running right after a c-section.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 18:14
|
|
|
centaurtainment posted:Honestly the only thing I remember about that movie is the great abortion scene. Otherwise it was very "meh" and wholly unnecessary.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 18:24
|
|
|
centaurtainment posted:I'm predicting 35% fan service winks to the camera/references to the first two movies, 45% thinly veiled social commentary about governments weaponizing xenomorphs as a metaphor for drone programs or some poo poo, and 20% Sharlto Copley spouting incomprehensible dialogue while walking around in a mech suit like the one from the end of Aliens except it will have guns on it. What you're describing is just Aliens with a different actor.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
We never actually see paul reiser killed in alien 2. The 3rd movie should be about how the aliens carted him back to their nest to be implanted but he escaped on his own and is now an interstellar con-man that travels to less developed planets and uses his useless MBA degree to crash their economies.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
david_a posted:What's also amazing is every other idea they had for the movie was actually far worse than the final product. I think William Gibson's script is the one mentioned earlier with Space Russians. The aliens become an airborne infection in that one. And they can infect androids. Because reasons. They should just see if Jim Cameron's got any more unmade scripts lying around that he could reskin into Alien movies, like he did with Mother. That turned out okay.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 20:08
|
|
|
Electromax posted:To me, the whole "a space SOS means any ship even if it's crewed by 7 space truckers must stop and investigate" to be an exceedingly stupid concept to kick off the franchise to begin with, but it doesn't stop Alien from looking great and having some fun ideas and being scary. Prometheus had its own balancing act there as well. The med pod scene in particular was wonderful even given the complaints about her running right after a c-section. Firstly, they investigated the SOS to see if there was possible salvage, not because they had to help. The secondary market on spaceships is quite lucrative. The series started off with human greed. Second, if she wasn't running she'd be dead, so adrenaline-in-action-movies rules apply there. I mean, she was all stapled up and everything! Her leg muscles were just fine. Pablo Gigante posted:Prometheus is good. Correct. So is the Assembly Cut. CAPT. Rainbowbeard fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Jun 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 20:41
|
|
|
Maybe I need to give Prometheus another try but I didn't just not like it, it made me angry. There just seem to be way too many "deal breaker" things that don't make sense and seem like lovely writing/characterization. I get the plot, it's just a lovely plot.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:Maybe I need to give Prometheus another try but I didn't just not like it, it made me angry. There just seem to be way too many "deal breaker" things that don't make sense and seem like lovely writing/characterization. I get the plot, it's just a lovely plot. All of the stuff that typically bothers people about the characterization can be explained pretty simply if you give the movie the same benefit of the doubt that every other sci-fi film gets. Its the kind of stuff you can explain using a little imagination combined with what the film actually gives you. I consider that a strength of good sci-fi, not a weakness. Like, yea Milburne and Fifield(the two guys who get lost during the storm) are not very good at their jobs, but you can put together why that is very easily based on what we're shown. The crew attending to Weyland barely blink at Shaw stumbling into the room all bloody, but they absolutely don't give a gently caress about her and the reason why is fully explained.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:05
|
|
|
The only excuse I could think of was that most of the crew were not actually top of their field but were hired because they would be dumb and expendable and maybe the whole mission and employer had a really bad reputation so only idiots signed up. I also just didn't like the plot. Aliens were, well, alien before. They and their creators really felt like something that come from beyond the stars, something eldrich and almost lovecraftian, something absolutely in no way related to humans, no shared history, no shared anything. Now we find out that the totally awesome and totally alien looking "space jocky" from alien was just a suit and inside was a creature just like a human but bigger who for some reason seeded life on earth and some how installed a mechanism to make humans evolve. Which is again lovely because I always like it in scify when humans are not created in god's image, have no special destiny, are not the long-lost ancestors to some glorious ancient race. We're lovely less-haired apes encountering alien horrors beyond our reckoning. But now, no, we were magically guided by space gods to evolve in their image making humans, the engineers, and the aliens all one big family. Prometheus managed to make humans the product of godly creationism and one of the most interesting, alien, and mysterious races in science fiction be "basically just humans but bigger".
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:18
|
|
|
I can understand where you're coming from, but it parallels how the humans compare to David (?) the android, their life-creation. In real life most depictions of the fancy new perfect AI we model our robots after smaller versions of ourselves, in our own image. I liked it because I suspect that, once we figure out how, we'll absolutely want to seed planets with things genetically similar to ourselves. But the movie does not depict the engineers as glorious gods whatsoever - the one we see is a short-tempered fuckup who dies shortly after awakening, and all his pals died too. It doesn't really address any godly questions - if it maintains the aura of mystery, the engineers are just less-haired apes that encountered alien horrors beyond their reckoning, too. They weren't supposed to be space gods.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:27
|
|
|
Baronjutter posted:The only excuse I could think of was that most of the crew were not actually top of their field but were hired because they would be dumb and expendable and maybe the whole mission and employer had a really bad reputation so only idiots signed up. Pretty much, but its more spelled out than it seems like you noticed(perfectly understandable, I've seen the movie like 6 times now so I've noticed smaller details). The mission was put together by Weyland's daughter, who as you come to find out as the film goes on has no personal investment in it, and really just wants to get it over with so she can get on with her life running the company. She thinks the mission is bullshit, but she also explicitly says that she hired most if not all the crew personally. Also the mission entailed being put to sleep for two years, only to be told what the goal is after you wake up. I doubt it would be easy to get the best and brightest to sign up under those circumstances. Baronjutter posted:I also just didn't like the plot. Aliens were, well, alien before. They and their creators really felt like something that come from beyond the stars, something eldrich and almost lovecraftian, something absolutely in no way related to humans, no shared history, no shared anything. Now we find out that the totally awesome and totally alien looking "space jocky" from alien was just a suit and inside was a creature just like a human but bigger who for some reason seeded life on earth and some how installed a mechanism to make humans evolve. Which is again lovely because I always like it in scify when humans are not created in god's image, have no special destiny, are not the long-lost ancestors to some glorious ancient race. We're lovely less-haired apes encountering alien horrors beyond our reckoning. But now, no, we were magically guided by space gods to evolve in their image making humans, the engineers, and the aliens all one big family. Prometheus managed to make humans the product of godly creationism and one of the most interesting, alien, and mysterious races in science fiction be "basically just humans but bigger". This stuff is perfectly legitimate but its your personal preferences, what you like to see in sci-fi. If you can let go of that a little bit you might see the movie differently. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Jun 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:27
|
|
|
Don't want to start an Alien 3 derail in this thread of all places, but it really needs to be stated how drat good the music in Alien 3 is. I like this live version a lot. Okay thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:33
|
|
|
I'm interested in seeing this version since I always felt Alien 3 was kinda unfairly maligned, though admittedly I haven't seen it since my late teens. I like that it tried to recapture the claustrophobic atmosphere of the first movie, while telling a different story. Does this version only exist with the boxsets or is it streamable? I'll probably end up with the blu-ray boxset eventually anyway, since the first two movies are some of my all time faves and Alien 4 is guilty pleasure. Baronjutter posted:I also just didn't like the plot. Aliens were, well, alien before. They and their creators really felt like something that come from beyond the stars, something eldrich and almost lovecraftian, something absolutely in no way related to humans, no shared history, no shared anything. Now we find out that the totally awesome and totally alien looking "space jocky" from alien was just a suit and inside was a creature just like a human but bigger who for some reason seeded life on earth and some how installed a mechanism to make humans evolve. Which is again lovely because I always like it in scify when humans are not created in god's image, have no special destiny, are not the long-lost ancestors to some glorious ancient race. We're lovely less-haired apes encountering alien horrors beyond our reckoning. But now, no, we were magically guided by space gods to evolve in their image making humans, the engineers, and the aliens all one big family. Prometheus managed to make humans the product of godly creationism and one of the most interesting, alien, and mysterious races in science fiction be "basically just humans but bigger". I agree with you on this. I was okay with just about every aspect of the movie, except for the Erich von Däniken inspired parts. Like, the idea itself of an alien presence loving with evolution on earth doesn't bother me, but, the concept of a humanoid species doing it just comes off as absurd, outdated sci-fi rubbish. Did they see apes and say "hey, they got 5 fingers and are potentially bipedal, lets 2001 them!" or were humans dropped off as some bastard offspring and just, somehow share the DNA of earth creatures? It just really flies in the face of the rest of the series where the xenomorph is a fantastic yet, reasonably plausible creature that embodies of the top of the food chain in a way that is primal and frightening. Even having it be a weapon created/manipulated by the Jokeys again doesn't bug me, but when you make a creationist story out of a really good sci-fi franchise, you lose me. No matter how cool not-Ripley is and how awesome her auto-csection was.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:41
|
|
|
Stare-Out posted:Don't want to start an Alien 3 derail in this thread of all places But I want to argue with people who liked Prometheus! How much of David Fincher's style do you all think is in Alien 3? He always shoots other people's scripts, but as far as cinematography goes how close is it to his subsequent work? If I remember correctly, Fincher did the best with what limited control he had, instilling the picture with his trademark color palate (muted to say the least) and moody use of score. I haven't watched Alien 3 in quite a few years so I might be projecting my knowledge of his career backwards onto it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:43
|
|
|
Krampus Grewcock posted:I'm interested in seeing this version since I always felt Alien 3 was kinda unfairly maligned, though admittedly I haven't seen it since my late teens. I like that it tried to recapture the claustrophobic atmosphere of the first movie, while telling a different story. Does this version only exist with the boxsets or is it streamable? I'll probably end up with the blu-ray boxset eventually anyway, since the first two movies are some of my all time faves and Alien 4 is guilty pleasure. Didn't the flash-back to the engineers seeding earth show it was like before there was ANY life at all? Like primordial times. That bothers me less than in scify when they're like "Humans are actually ancient aliens and didn't actually evolve on earth!" which would negate all of biology and genetics and make no loving sense. Hell even in star trek they explain all the humanoid aliens looking the same because a humanoid alien just like the engineers found the universe empty of life they could relate to so seeded the universe with life knowing it would eventually into humanoids. I don't know how, I mean I can't think of any way to hide predestined genetic results into the earliest single-celled lifeforms but what ever.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:46
|
|
|
Krampus Grewcock posted:I agree with you on this. I was okay with just about every aspect of the movie, except for the Erich von Däniken inspired parts. Like, the idea itself of an alien presence loving with evolution on earth doesn't bother me, but, the concept of a humanoid species doing it just comes off as absurd, outdated sci-fi rubbish. Did they see apes and say "hey, they got 5 fingers and are potentially bipedal, lets 2001 them!" or were humans dropped off as some bastard offspring and just, somehow share the DNA of earth creatures? It just really flies in the face of the rest of the series where the xenomorph is a fantastic yet, reasonably plausible creature that embodies of the top of the food chain in a way that is primal and frightening. Even having it be a weapon created/manipulated by the Jokeys again doesn't bug me, but when you make a creationist story out of a really good sci-fi franchise, you lose me. No matter how cool not-Ripley is and how awesome her auto-csection was. I don't want to ruin this for you but the xenomorph is just a human with some spikes, a tail and a dick for a head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR5jYeIMBKk
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:47
|
|
|
centaurtainment posted:How much of David Fincher's style do you all think is in Alien 3? He always shoots other people's scripts, but as far as cinematography goes how close is it to his subsequent work? If I remember correctly, Fincher did the best with what limited control he had, instilling the picture with his trademark color palate (muted to say the least) and moody use of score. I haven't watched Alien 3 in quite a few years so I might be projecting my knowledge of his career backwards onto it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:49
|
|
|
hemale in pain posted:I don't want to ruin this for you but the xenomorph is just a human with some spikes, a tail and a dick for a head. That's not a nice way to talk about John Hurt.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:57
|
|
|
Stare-Out posted:I think it's recognizable as a Fincher movie, some scenes more than others. I mean he did Seven three years later and it's very definitely a Fincher style movie. He has a special effects background so all the practical effects in Alien 3 are top-notch (the rod puppet is great too, just the compositioning kinda stinks) and even though he had two (really good) DPs during the shoot, the movie has a very Fincher look to it. Underlit, stark and contrasty shots, low angles. Seven was the movie that really cemented Fincher's style for me, and apart from Zodiac it remains the most "Fincher" movie that he's made. In a way, the xenomorph in Alien 3 is a serial killer just like the antagonists of those two films, which really is the perfect content for his style. centaurtainment fucked around with this message at 22:13 on Jun 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 21:59
|
|
|
Stare-Out posted:I think it's recognizable as a Fincher movie, some scenes more than others. I mean he did Seven three years later and it's very definitely a Fincher style movie. He has a special effects background so all the practical effects in Alien 3 are top-notch (the rod puppet is great too, just the compositioning kinda stinks) and even though he had two (really good) DPs during the shoot, the movie has a very Fincher look to it. Underlit, stark and contrasty shots, low angles. I actually watched the Assembly Cut yesterday because of this thread, and honestly the part of it that makes it a Fincher movie the most is that it has incredible sound design.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 22:12
|
|
|
Illinois Smith posted:I haven't seen Jeunet's fourth movie since I watched it in theaters, what's the consensus? Just noticed there's a longer cut of that one too. Longer cut-- pros: It's funnier cons: It's longer
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 22:22
|
|
|
Stare-Out posted:Don't want to start an Alien 3 derail in this thread of all places, but it really needs to be stated how drat good the music in Alien 3 is. I like this live version a lot. Okay thanks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbXN96n5mLY My favorite has to be the first two minutes of track 4 which is Agnus Dei—which was really powerful given the context of the religious inmates. It plays after the flammable toxic waste they use for flushing the alien out of the air shafts ignites prematurely due to it's intervention causing a few inmate deaths along with an inmate selflessly locking himself in a room with the alien to trap it (his screams can be heard from behind the door). It really captured the inmates struggle and ultimately the realization of the situation they're in. I love the Assembly Cut.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 22:37
|
|
|
Y'know, Prometheus wasn't all that bad. Just had a pretty weak script. A good plot, good character performances, a very weak script (and too much focus on David without any real payoff, since his motivations are rather...vague.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 22:41
|
|
|
Timby posted:I actually watched the Assembly Cut yesterday because of this thread, and honestly the part of it that makes it a Fincher movie the most is that it has incredible sound design.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
Krampus Grewcock posted:I was okay with just about every aspect of the movie, except for the Erich von Däniken inspired parts. Von Daniken took his ideas from HP Lovecraft. They're Lovecraft references.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 22:43
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:Von Daniken took his ideas from HP Lovecraft. They're Lovecraft references. Lots of bad things try to be Lovecraft
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:00
|
|
|
Timby posted:I actually watched the Assembly Cut yesterday because of this thread, and honestly the part of it that makes it a Fincher movie the most is that it has incredible sound design. Stare-Out posted:Yeah, I was also going to bring up the gore aspect in relation to Fincher's style and thought about the autopsy scene in particular. The sound design in that scene is pretty gruesome and makes the whole thing so much more horrifying. Whoever came up with this should have gotten a bonus, though. RE: Prometheus I like that film but it's probably best to consider it as a separate thing. Ridley Scott doesn't give a drat about how it fits in with the rest of the franchise and you shouldn't either. When I think of the Alien universe of the first three films my jockeys are still Space Elephants 
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:01
|
|
|
david_a posted:RE: Prometheus Yea, this was my biggest obstacle to enjoying Prometheus. I was too much of an Alien/Aliens fanboy and went into it looking to connect every little detail to the previous movies in the franchise. Its not a satisfying movie to watch in that mindset.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:05
|
|
|
Basebf555 posted:Yea, this was my biggest obstacle to enjoying Prometheus. I was too much of an Alien/Aliens fanboy and went into it looking to connect every little detail to the previous movies in the franchise. Its not a satisfying movie to watch in that mindset. That part didn't bother me much at all. In fact, I kind of enjoyed teh consistency and the lack thereof. Considering that Prometheus is 100 years or so prior to Alien, it makes since that the Engineers would look slightly different after a century. Similarly, it made sense that their original bioweapon was essentially a murderous version of the process they are known to do; creating life on alien worlds. My biggest problem is that the Prometheus itself looks way too loving sleek. There are holograms and cool monitors with touchscreens...it looks nothing like the Nostromo, and it doesn't feel technologically consistent. My girlfriend tells me that it could be the Prometheus had all cutting-edge technology that was lost with its destruction, but that sounds like a fairly weak excuse to me. If the film was a reboot, that'd be one thing, but it felt off to me and I think they made a mistake in ditching the old-school aesthetic in favor of holographic map projectors (which they never even used to any great effect anyway).
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:12
|
|
|
BottledBodhisvata posted:
A 1920s top of the line vehicle will look a lot more sleek than an 18 wheeler today.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:31
|
|
|
The Prometheus was a cutting edge research vessel, the Nostromo was a basically a freight train in space. That's a really odd thing to fixate on.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:35
|
|
|
exquisite tea posted:The Prometheus was a cutting edge research vessel, the Nostromo was a basically a freight train in space. That's a really odd thing to fixate on. Going with retro 70s CRTs would have totally clashed with the sleek 60s golden age sci-fi aesthetic they were going for, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 29, 2015 23:42
|
|
|
Prometheus was awful. It should be its own movie series and not connected to Alien at all. Failed at being a horror more because it spent too much time trying to be a nature movie. No fire from the gods was stolen, name of the movie is pointless. Space jockeys are just clumsy huge people and have reverse napoleon complexes. Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jun 30, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 00:26
|
|
|
Tenzarin posted:Space jockeys are just clumsy huge people and have reverse napoleon complexes. Wouldn't that be disappointing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 00:29
|
|
|
BottledBodhisvata posted:That part didn't bother me much at all. In fact, I kind of enjoyed teh consistency and the lack thereof. Considering that Prometheus is 100 years or so prior to Alien, it makes since that the Engineers would look slightly different after a century. Similarly, it made sense that their original bioweapon was essentially a murderous version of the process they are known to do; creating life on alien worlds. Prometheus looks like a modern corporate toy (plus holograms), the Nostromo looks like a modern piece of industrial equipment. Cutting-edge machinery that prioritizes being built to last over looking cool looks a lot more 1970s than it does Apple product. I guess if they really wanted to be weird obsessive film nerds they'd go back and carefully composite LCD screens over the Nostromo's CRT monitors so it'd be 100% Hard Sci-Fi.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 03:56
|
|
|
The basic problem of a such a thread is that no-one has a concept of what made Alien or Aliens 'good'. So, we get a series of non-coherent two minute hates directed at such varied topics as the plot, the plot, the plot, and the shape of the computer screens. Because when people praise Alien, they're talking about its amazing plot - right?
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 04:48
|
|
|
A Wizard of Goatse posted:Prometheus looks like a modern corporate toy (plus holograms), the Nostromo looks like a modern piece of industrial equipment. Cutting-edge machinery that prioritizes being built to last over looking cool looks a lot more 1970s than it does Apple product. I guess if they really wanted to be weird obsessive film nerds they'd go back and carefully composite LCD screens over the Nostromo's CRT monitors so it'd be 100% Hard Sci-Fi. Offtopic, but to Creative Assembly's credit when they made Alien: Isolation, they actually copied all of the transmission and interface stuff onto VHS tapes, then recorded then off a tv so everything looks super "authentic" in that respect. They did an incredible job making everything in the movie look and sound like it was in between Alien and Aliens. Cassette tapes, huge clunky ID card thing you use to save your game, it's genius. I was pretty happy with the technological level of humanity's stuff in Prometheus, like others said the disparity between it and the Nostromo isn't particularly unrealistic. Like I can go to work, put my Galaxy phone back in my pocket, and then use inventory software from the early 90s, it's not unusual. Also I know it's pedantic, but it doesn't have an abortion scene but rather an emergency caesarian she has to direct it though. Also impressive as it's arguably the best 3D alien c-section in any film. I mean at least in the top five. The 3D in general was really nice in this movie. I love the effect of the dream reading machine combined with the Daft Punk helmet and gloves and stuff. I was a bit saddened to hear that supposedly David will get a new body in Prometheus' sequel, as him literally becoming Mimir was another reference to the creation myths and legends the movie is full of. The cast in Prometheus isn't any dumber or less competent than the cast of Alien, Aliens, Alien 3, or Alien Resurrection, they're just not likable people. Cold arrogant folk that think the world owes them something riding the iPhone 6 of spaceships expecting answers to be handed to them. Of course they all fall apart and immediately become erratic. Elizabeth Shaw being named after an early Dr. Who companion isn't a coincidence, the movie in general is a great breakdown of how we glamorize exploitation and theft and colonization as "exploring" or "adventuring" in other sci-fi movies. It's like watching a conversation about Alien knockoffs in film form and is really impressive for functioning on that level while still being a good movie. It's notable that the film's plot is very very close to that of the Roger Corman Alien knockoff Galaxy of Terror, to the point where without context it's almost more a remake of that movie than it is a reboot of the Alien franchise. That Scott was able to make the movie so dense in general is pretty awesome.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 05:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 12:43 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The basic problem of a such a thread is that no-one has a concept of what made Alien or Aliens 'good'. Now now don't be coy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 30, 2015 05:18
|
|
