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Do you like Alien 3 "Assembly Cut"?
Yes, Alien 3 "Assembly Cut" was tits.
No, Alien and Aliens are the only valid Alien films.
Nah gently caress you Alien 3 sucks in all its forms.
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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Slashrat posted:

MandaloreGaming put out a review of Dark Descent and pegged it as fun, but not groundbreaking storywise.

Seems a bit better than a lot of people probably expected. I hadn't really paid much attention to the game itself, so the finding out that the levels are as huge as they appear to be was interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndt4ypHZbs4

I just came here to link this review. Sounds pretty good!

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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I can't remember what big name corporate games review place did the review, but I recall them reviewing some horror games low because they found it too scary to play. My dude, it's a horror game.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Slashrat posted:

The modern XCOM iterations and the games they inspired definitely made it harder to accept losses, I felt, since the lower cap on how many people you could bring usually encouraged bringing only your best dudes instead of a mix of veterans and expendable dudes you hadn't grown attached to yet.

Yeah, classic xcom had a lot of annoying awful unfun bits, but what they got right was the balance between getting to know you high-skilled troops while also having soldiers be plentiful and expendable enough. When you're hard limited to like 4-6 guys on a mission and skills are extremely important it becomes the norm to just never let anyone die. While in classic xcom yeah, you wanted to keep your best troops alive, but you could also pack 12+ guys in your skyranger so it was fine to also bring some cannon fodder. And even if one of your elite dudes died you probably had a few more on the way anyways.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Covenant and Requiem are two movies I haven't seen because I'm a little piss baby that really doesn't like that sort of gore and violence. But I respect the former for being a proper alien movie, while the later is indeed just ugly cruelty porn.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I kinda want to play the aliens RPG and just not have any of the titular aliens. Just explore the universe, do some space truckin, do some mercenary action, what ever, everything but xenomorphs.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Fil5000 posted:

The rpg is pretty much geared to that for campaign play. Like, if your party are playing as space truckers you can't be throwing xenos at them every job or you'll wipe them out, you have to save them for stuff you've built up to. Like I ran about three jobs for my truckers where they faced regular corporate malfeasance and disregard for human life, and them knowing there technically COULD be face huggers in the vents just enhanced the tension.

Typica Aliens RPG campaign:
"Ok guys, you're on the space station and need a job. There's a guy at the cargo office with a problem, he says there's some monsters infesting Cargo Bay 5 and he needs it cleared out for an incoming shipment. He'll give you 100 credits per xeno pelt"
"Nice work clearing out that cargo bay. He's impressed you were able to handle those bugs so well. He has a new mission, go down to the planet and explore a spooky cave because he heard there's treasure in it."
"Looks like there's a xeno hive in the cave! Roll initiative! Great work defeating those aliens guys, there's a digitally locked crate at the end of the cave. Roll for lockpick."
"Distress call nearby, check it out? Ok you dock with the ship. Look like its full of aliens again. The captain has locked himself in the forward hold and promises a reward if you clear his ship out!"

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

acid also entirely depends on what it comes in contact with. Variation in acid-effects could easily be explained by different compositions of materials its reacting with. The decks of the ship could happen to be extremely reactive with the aliens acid, someone's armour less so, and some random grappling hook perhaps was some sort of stainless steel or space-metal that barely reacted.

Like right now humans are transporting incredible amounts of powerful acids all over the place in trucks and trains, it all depends on what the container is made out of. I remember in my geology 101 "rocks for jocks" class we played with some powerful acid. Some rocks would almost melt like a scene from aliens, others would barely do anything, others would do absolutely nothing. Chemistry!

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Alien 4 is so loving weird. Remember those mostly unfunny movie parody comics Mad magazine would do? Resurrection feels like someone took one of those and actually turned it into a live action movie. The tone is just so bizarre. The opening scene where a guy kills a bad CGI bug in a kinda gross-out comedic switcheroo so perfectly sets the tone for the movie.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I kinda love how much theorycrafting there is within the "alien(s)" extended media universe there is. I've actually been enjoying SMG's posts here recently too, which is strange to me.

I mostly agree that Burke really did seem to be a pretty stupid lone wolf trying to do an idiotic hail mary attempt at becoming fabulously rich and powerful. His plan clearly lacks resources and doesn't even make the most sense even if it was to work. But we don't really know all the details. I could absolutely believe he had some contact in some WY bioweapons division that agreed to essentially be his "fence" for the aliens or anything he could recover. That he must have had some actual reason for believing his plan would work out, even his later revised plans. But I don't think he was working on anyone's behalf, he was not a middle man or agent for some larger conspiracy. He was just a dude who thought he had the contacts and resources to pull it all off.

I just always assumed Burke worked like this:

-Hears Ripley's story and his initial plan/hope is that there is some alien derelict there, but its something the colonist there can totally deal with and secure because how dangerous can they really be and this lady seems kinda crazy. I don't know how their space legal system works, but I imagine he'd only be doing this if he was indeed entitled to some percentage of the find via his actions. He has contacts with WY's bioweapons/tech division and knows that even playing a part in the chain that gets them this potential tech/samples would result in some personal gain, even if its just a promotion or a cushy job over in that division.

-Learns the colony has gone silent right after he sent the team out. He panics realizing these aliens might actually be as dangerous as the crazy lady was rambling about. This scares him, but also gets him excited because if they were able to wipe out a whole colony operation they gotta be valuable. He needs a plan B now to still gain from all this, and he wants to cover his tracks if needed at the colony. He pulls what strings he has and gets the lovely small marine team plus Ripley to go investigate. He's probably thinking that barely armed colonists were no match for the aliens, but surely trained marines will be ok, I mean he wouldn't be going with them otherwise. At this point he might not actually have a single solid plan, he just knows he needs to go along and be flexible and opportunistic and "figure something out" while he's there.

-When poo poo really goes south for everyone down on the planet and he's exposed and threatened, he has to go with plan C. Get enough people killed or infected that he can take control of the situation and bring back at least one infected person on ice. After seeing the aliens and what they're capable of, he's really banking that his "friends" within WY will stick their necks out a bit to clean the whole situation up so long as they get their aliens. He thinks there's a chance he can still survive, and profit because he's dead or in prison otherwise.

Also about Ripley in Alien 3: they show her mental state really collapsing in that movie along with full blown hallucinations. From her perspective there really is one single "them" in the form of "the company" that's been constantly ruining her life. She doesn't care about the actual specific details or nuance, it's just "the company" as a malevolent entity, a unified hive mind on par with the aliens with a similar destructive singular goal. So she'll remember past events purely through that lens. Mother, Burke, the prison colony, all just faces of the same personified beast that haunts her.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

While that's broadly correct, and likely the preferred reading of the film, there are some important details.

First off, Burke absolutely knows, and knew at the time, that what he did was illegal. That's his primary and (possibly sole) motivation for attempting to kill Ripley. He was hoping that nobody would really look into the sequence of events - which is silly, because the rights things is certainly a legal clusterfuck and millions of dollars are at stake.

Going off the extended version here, Newt's family were independent "wildcat" surveyors whose day-to-day work involved exploring unpromising areas around Hadleys Hope and using "seismic survey charges" to scan for subterranean mineral deposits. Upon finding anything, they could then stake a claim and, presumably, lease the mineral rights to Weyland-Yutani.

Cameron's first draft of the script implies that the rights are simply evenly split between any discoverers: like, Newt's mom and dad each get a third of the claim, while Burke likely gets a third for sending the initial message. However, that doesn't really make sense because Burke was acting in an official capacity as a representative of Weyland-Yutani - with a signed directive, even! - so why would he be treated as an individual (or a partner of the Newts) when it comes to ownership? And why would Newt's fam be granted such a large fraction of the rights in this scenario?

In the actual film, the dude in the extended cut doesn't know how following a company directive affects a wildcatter's rights to the claim - but we can make some basic assumptions. Like, the survey teams aren't going to go out and do free work just because some dude sent an e-mail. They would be compensated for their time in some way, even if they find nothing, because surveying takes work, and other resources. So, Newt's fam are implicitly working as independent contractors at the time of the incident - which changes the whole dynamic. And that sort of work is evidently common in Hadleys Hope, so there's going to be legal minutia already hashed out (even if these particular colonists are ignorant of it). A three-way-split is just implausible - and it's absurd that these independent surveyors wouldn't be extremely knowledgeable about these rights, when their entire business depends on it. Why would Weyland-Yutani agree to give independent contractors rights to the find at all, instead of a more conventional payment?

Of course, the simplest explanation is the cynical one: as with the part where Ripley finds out about Burke's plan but tells nobody for hours, Cameron just didn't really plot this out too well. But that cynical take would be failing to read the existing film - so we have to go back to the conclusion that Burke was never going to get legal rights to anything, and was betting on a makeshift criminal conspiracy from the start. That's more consistent with his characterization anyways: his assumption that disgruntled Ripley will be 'smart' and instantly down to commit crimes (like smuggling invasive species through customs). Burke's entire MO is to just do crimes openly and hope that nobody will care, even as things get worse and worse.

By the time Burke's at the point of doing two attempted murders, though, he's not even trying at all. He makes zero attempt to cover his tracks, and just leaves the alien storage tubes lying of the floor. Was he gonna come back and hide those later? So Ripley's assumption that Burke was going to stealthily kill everybody in their sleep, to avoid having to declare aliens at the border, isn't really supported by evidence. Killing Ripley was impulsive, having more to do with shutting her up or just expressing some kind of misogynist rage.


Oh yeah that's 100% what I'm operating under too. None of this is legal or would be a transparent and official matter of corporate policy or official contracts. This is Burke getting huge unofficial kickbacks or other advantages through his "fence" within some silo of WY. Some bioweapons bigwig he knows who will make sure Burke is rewarded for his actions in some way under the table, as well as helping him avoid any sort of criminal charges. Burke knows enough about the company's inner workings to feel confident that this plan will result in a big reward.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I just personally like to imagine its the same setting. It works so well. Both have near-human bio synthetic robots, both have the classic corporate dystopia society, both have offworld colonies. It just works. Maybe alien is set like 50-100 years after blade runner, who knows, but everything lines up pretty well. We never get to learn much about space in Blade Runner, and we never get to learn much about Earth in Alien

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I remember decades ago when Civ2 scenario modding was starting to evolve into a thing that allowed for total conversion mods there was a pretty cool Alien mod. yes, an alien universe mod for civ! The person clearly did a ton of lore research because they had a whole space map with cities representing planets/colonies. They had all the canon alien human nations plus tried to include the aliens under the barbarian system that could randomly appear at the edge of space or when exploring, but unlike in normal civ where barbarians are just a distraction, the alien units were extremely powerful and could easily conquer frontier colonies and start producing new alien units. They also had the predators on the map too.

Did it play properly? Was it a good translation of the alien setting into a 4x strategy game? Probably not since it was restricted to being a civ2 mod, but it was still really neat the amount of work that went into it. But what's crazy is that I can find no trace of it. Totally erased from the internet.

But it's made me wish someone would make a cool purpose built alien-universe strategy game. Have a few starting scenarios like in Paradox games. Could play at the rise of human interstellar travel, or at the time of Alien, or the time of Aliens, or even have a later "earth war" era scenario based on the comics. I'd just love to get the big picture big map overview of the alien setting. Could you lead WT into successfully harnessing the alien and conquering humanity by force or wealth? Could you bring the revolution to the galaxy as the The union of progressive peoples? A fun asymmetrical game where you could play as a stateless corporation like WT that gains power by wealth and influence over nations and colonies, the more standard 4X experience of playing as a nation like the 3 world empire. Or maybe you're a predator clan leader and you have a whole honour and influence mechanic based on hunts which you can use to influence other clans and maintain your own legitimacy. And of course, somehow play as the aliens. A recently emerged queen that has to carefully balance aggressive infestation with provoking too strong of a response from your target. Evolve, mutate, sneak aboard host star ships and spread to new worlds. Playing as the alien might be too difficulty to translate into a playable "faction" and would probably need to be more of a horrifying force of nature in the background.

Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Mar 5, 2024

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

The What If comic is incredibly silly, worth a look.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

It's can often be obvious from a trailer if something is going to be horrible, but its almost impossible to ever tell from a trailer if something will be good. The trailer looks fine, lot of potential. But we really won't know a thing until the movie is actually out.

It's kind of amazing the amount of content mill and rage bait that gets generated just from trailers where people just make up entire things from whole cloth to declare something a total trash failure or obviously the film event of the year. It seems especially bad with anything related to nerd media.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Takes place between alien and aliens, is about a crew investigating an abandoned space station, I think i've seen this one!

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

That sounds pretty cool. It almost sounds like a mix between Alien Isolation and that draft Alien 3 script with the back-bursters and the soviet station tryig to do alien DNA (goo) research. I'm actually pretty optimistic about the movie. I mean the general plot of a movie is never the measure of it being good or bad, a lot of things sound great on paper but the execution is dogshit. I'd be happy with a solid lore-friendly universe-respecting well written alien romp that brings some new ideas to the table.

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

Is the $100 blue ray the only method they're selling it, or there will be cheaper options to like just download it or something?

Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

I really didn't like scorn. They were just aping a couple very great art styles but there was almost no world building and the levels didn't really make any sense. They just had one idea, the art, and beyond that put the most minimal effort into weaving any sort of game or story into it. I was hoping for something deep and mysterious, a lore hole to dive into and figure things out from environmental storytelling alone. But instead they just kinda went with what ever they thougth looked cool or gross or creepy and didn't put any thought in beyond that. There's nothing to discover.

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Baronjutter
Dec 31, 2007

"Tiny Trains"

The_Doctor posted:

I thought Scorn was much more Beksinski than Giger

Same, it had some Giger here and there but felt about 80% Beksinski.

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