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I've actually never really understood the idea of canon. This isn't a religion, it's a fictional universe written by a ton of different authors (ok same thing but the later isn't treated as seriously). Who cares what fox says is canon, or even what a particular writer says is canon if it conflicts with something else you personally like better. I don't see AvP as "canon" because it's stupid. Half the comics take the universe and overall plot terrible places so gently caress it. I view the Alien franchise as a slightly more unified SCP foundation, just a bunch of spoopy space stories written around a very general theme and setting. Enjoy the ones you like and ignore the ones you don't. If two things you enjoy slightly contradict each other don't worry about it, it's unreliable narrator or something. Also in my head blade runner, alien, and total recall are all in the same cool gritty corporate distopia scify universe.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:40
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Xenomrph posted:I like to think its the Space Jockeys from Alien - it's even thematically appropriate in the sense of creations usurping their creators, and the Engineers trying to make themselves be in the image of their creators. I hate what they did with the mystery of the space jockey so I've just told my self the engineers are not the space jokeys, they just base their space suits off theirs. I mean it's hard to say because we see the engineers on earth like billions of years ago seeding life, so engineers have existed unchanged for a super long time. At the same time in alien the ship they find and the space jockey have been fossilized, a process which takes a very very long time (although not billions of years). The space jockey was actually melded with its "chair" while the engineer was not, despite the design being almost 100% identical. If they are separate species who came first? Also the engineers don't really match their ships/technology. The space Jockey, the aliens, the ship are all obviously designed by the same person. The engineers are just scaled up humans. I loved the idea that the aliens, the Space Jockeys, and all their related technology and life came from some horrific area of space full of similar bio-mechanical lifeforms. It's probably the one thing I can't "get over" from Prometheus. They took one of the most mysterious and alien aliens in all of scify and made it the most boring humanoid startrek "alien" just wearing a suit. I always found the Space Jockey to be way more interesting than the aliens them selves, it's such a compelling mystery that I would have rather had unsolved vs what Prometheus did with it. Has anything been "officially" said regarding the Space Jockey from alien? Was it just a dead engineer in a suit? I can take everything else in Prometheus, but not that. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 18:48
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My useless uninteresting fan theory is that the Space Jockeys are super ancient aliens that come from the same neighbourhood or "family" of lifeforms that the alien comes from, or they made them. If you look at earth animals, yeah we have some weird poo poo but to an alien a bear or a raccoon or a dog or a cat or a horse all look related. Pretty much all earth animals have the same organs and skeletal structure, from a cat to a bat to a whale, even birds and lizards are similar enough. There's some planet or corner of the galaxy where life evolved and/or was engineered over time to look like Geiger's very distinctive designs. I imagine all sorts of creatures, cities, entire landscapes that are 100% Geiger. This isn't "earth but with different plants and animals", this is an absolutely alien family of life and technology. Maybe the Space Jockey is nothing more than a bio-mechanical navigator, purpose created to act as the brains of the ship and nothing more. Perhaps everything in this alien domain are purpose-designed bio-mechanical creatures that blur the line between robot, sentient life, and structure/technology. The alien eggs could just have been a bio-weapon designed to prep a planet for colonization, hell the aliens could just be yet another servant species so this alien "society" if you could even call it that. Much like humans terraforming planets, the Space Jockey may have been on a similar mission. We don't know what the end-game for an alien infestation is, perhaps their hives eventually serve another purpose, or other unseen life forms come from their life-cycle or are supposed to be added later. The aliens might just be step 1 in establishing a whole ecosystem of Geiger creatures. I like that idea that the aliens are just the tip of a massive penis themed bio-mechanical iceberg. I like the idea that this whole "family" of Geiger-life has absolutely no relation or interest in humans. And I think what would keep the franchise fresh is to stop obsessing over the specific alien we see in the movies and instead develop this whole family of life and the society (if it even is one) that created it. I want poo poo so weird and alien we feel the alien is relatable to. I want planetary hives of eldrich geiger life that think and act in ways we cannot comprehend or relate to in any way. I want the aliens and what ever created them to be just a minor part of a massive lovecraftian web of horrible alien intellect and ancient maddening motives. Where do the engineers fit in? I don't know, stupid boring humanoids like us who reverse engineered this society's tech in the hopes of spreading our sort of life around the universe a bit so the galaxy isn't just a soup of geiger poo poo?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:04
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In a good movie there's more stuff than can be digested or even noticed in a single viewing. I'm certainly not a "movie guy" but I can stand to watch some really good movies multiple times, either after enough years or reading some new take on the movie or watching it socially with other people
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Oct 14, 2015 21:07
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Gargamel Gibson posted:I think it's kind of dumb that "xenomorph" became the de facto name for the Alien species. It was just Gorman's fancy pants way of saying "alien life form". Yet at the same time there's equally awful alien fans that will launch into a massive rant about how calling the alien the xenomorph is incredibly incorrect and anyone who calls it that is not a true fan. I'm just going to call them something less controversial like "legos". It is kinda weird though how they're never given an official name. Not even in alien 4 does the science dude call them something? Wans't some latin name thrown around or was that only in the comics? Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 19:50
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david_a posted:There are two: internecivus raptus ("murderous thief") and linguafoeda acheronsis ("foul tongue from Acheron"). Yeah it's always just "it" or "the creature" or "they".
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Oct 15, 2015 21:40
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Xenomrph posted:Tangentially related, but one of the characters in 'Predators' calls one of the Predators a "space human being". Problematic
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Oct 15, 2015 22:20
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They hosed up by putting the aliens in the predator universe rather than the comics/games which put the predators in the aliens universe.
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Oct 16, 2015 15:00
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Xenomrph posted:That's literally the point I brought up on the AvP forums to show that canon debates are silly and retarded. There is no "one canon" for loving world religion, why on earth would there be one for entertainment mass media fiction? Um there is, non-catholics are just heretics.
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Oct 26, 2015 17:14
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I always wondered how Aliens keep hydrated when they're constantly uncontrollably drooling all the gently caress over the place.
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Oct 26, 2015 21:18
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God can you imagine if someone tried to make aliens political? Imagine some god drat sjw jamming "strong female characters" down our throats for an action movie, or a bunch of lefttards putting in tired anti-corporate and anti-military propaganda. Can we keep aliens pure please?
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Oct 30, 2015 21:08
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MrMojok posted:Well, you know what they say: A conservative is just a liberal who's been attacked by aliens If you told me this was real I'd absolutely believe it.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:03
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I've actually never seen Prometheus, all my opinions on it are just from simulated viewings.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:23
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Elysium was a sort of fun action movie but it was maddeningly stupid. The setting didn't make any sense. In Prometheus the complaints are mostly about plot or characters but the setting its self wasn't insulting. The reason doing anything in space is ridiculous expensive is that it's ridiculously hard to get off the earth. It a massive rocket over 100m tall to get 3 men in a tinfoil lander to the moon. Yet in the movie we see we have the technology for a loving luxury car to achieve escape velocity and launch up into orbit as if it was a drive to the corner store. This would change everything. There wouldn't be one Elysium, there would be hundreds, thousands. All industry would shift into space, resources mined from asteroids for a fraction of the cost of resources on earth. It was cool seeing an almost realistic space habitat but why the hell was it open, exposed to space?! The only reason for that design is to allow space-cars to just drive in and out to further the plot. So we have cheap easy access to space and all we're doing with it is making a single gated space community with insanely bad security? Those robots wouldn't be made on earth, they'd be made in space, by other robots. Blumpkin could have still had his class-struggle story but in a setting that wasn't insultingly stupid. I don't know, show an earth quickly being abandoned by capital as space resources and manufacturing becoming so much cheaper. Have the main character's brutal robot factory shut down because the new orbital factory is finally ready. Address issues of how disposable labour is to capital, a liquid resource expected to constantly move to chase increasingly temporary jobs. Massive employment and poverty coupled with empty promises that space resources will eventually "trickle down" once the space industrial base is more established. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 22:22
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Snowman_McK posted:And what is the hosed up end result of ignoring the canon of other movies? Nerds get really mad and create entire essays on the internet detailing how mad they are?
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Nov 4, 2015 06:45
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As much as I want "more aliens" as a mindless fan and consumer I'm kinda happy Blompkoff's alien is canceled or at least on the extreme back burner. Alien 3 is really good and my gut was telling me this new one was just going to be a bunch of awful revisionist fan-service that probably ends up missing the point. I mean if you don't think alien 3 (assembly) is good you don't really "get" alien. That said it's impossible and unfair to pre-judge these things so harshly. Maybe he'd make a really good movie that stood on it's own and was so good it wouldn't trigger any "but but alien 3 is canon!" feelings. But it would probably be "Aliens: 2, moar pulse rifles and references"
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Nov 5, 2015 00:05
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Lurdiak posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0 These are good. It manages to both simultaneously make fun of Prometheus and the people overly confused at the plot obsessing over stupid questions.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:27
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
But what about monkey DNA?
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Nov 5, 2015 16:08
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I've purged bad aliens memories from my mind. It's far too scary to ever not be scary. Even if an idiot uses it badly it doesn't make it any less scary. My brain just thinks "nah, that's not the real alien" or "that's just some goof ball trying to tell a scary story using a famous legitimately scary monster" Also the alien(s) in each movie is different enough in both design, behavior, and relation to the plot that I at least have very separate emotions and memories related to each one. You could make the absolute worst alien movie ever that absolutely "ruins" the monster but it won't effect my feelings of it in other good movies. I guess in terms of scariness I judge each movie as its own canon. I agree though that the franchise needs to be taken in more creative directions and not rely on the alien as a crutch. The best of the best comics are ok, the video game is great for capturing the feel of the first movie, but everything else is garbage.
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Nov 6, 2015 02:29
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I just saw Aliens for the first time ever even though I've seen Alien a few times. I've never seen the next 2 sequels but I've read their synopsis. Why after all the poo poo Ripley goes through to protect Newt and bond with her did the writers decide to unceremoniously murder her at the start of the 3rd movie? Space is a horrible lovely unforgiving place. She then needs to personally do an autopsy on Newt afterwards. poo poo is hosed up, no happy endings in the alien franchise. Watch 3, make sure it's the assembly cut as the thread title says.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:49
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Ripley died for our greedy corporate sins. One day the kingdom of god will be established and we will all live in peaceful space socialism with zero corporate machinations.
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Nov 6, 2015 23:35
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I just watched Prometheus with an open and accepting mind and an attempt to explain or give the benefit of the doubt to every stupid or odd thing that happens in the movie. It's not great. It's pretty, lots of it are good, but overall it's not a great film. A lot of people's complaints are nit-picking, or have potential explanations, or are actually fairly obviously explained in the actual movie, but there's still so much left that is just... very questionable. It's no Alien 3.
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Nov 7, 2015 07:39
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Prometheus raises a ton of questions, and if you give Scott the benefit of the doubt that a lot of the strange things that don't seem logical or make sense could be explained and are actually on purpose not just bad writing it's not a terrible movie. I'm just so used to things like Lost or BSG or countless other movies and TV shows where the sense of mystery and "what the gently caress" is just cheap bad writing rather than an actual thought out and cool mystery. But even giving all the things in the movie that don't make sense the absolute maximum benefit of the doubt I think the movie still had a lot of flaws and poor choices that added nothing to the movie. I'm still glad I saw it and enjoyed it. I usually get REALLY ANGRY and shout at the screen when characters are not acting in their best interests or doing something unbelievably dumb, but other than a couple scenes everyone's dumbness seemed a believable part of their dumb characters rather than poor writing. It's not like you need to listen to the director's commentary special edition and read script notes to learn the crew are not the best of the best, they're the absolute dregs of their field. The movie is very explicit in that fact. Theron's character didn't believe in the mission, she was just going through the motions to fulfill her obligations to her father with horrible makeup. David put the black poo poo in excited idiot's coffee because Bad Makeup told him too. He's a desperate crazy old man who doesn't have time for weeks or months worth of testing, he wants David to see what this poo poo does to a human. Does it make people immortal? Does it kill them? Could it unlock any secrets that might give him more life or a better makeup budget? It makes perfect sense to me anyways, David's just following orders. Why he needed to pretend to be dead though I have no idea. Why couldn't he have led the mission him self and given it a bigger budget and a better crew? No time? Would create a scandal back home? People were trying to kill him? Weyland could have been expanded on, as could his daughter and their relationship. My problems with Prometheus isn't that it was a bad movie, it just could have been a much much better movie. I also found Shaw mildly annoying but mostly boring. Such a big deal is made out of her being a christian and believing in things. Also why didn't she tell anyone about her squid baby or her suspicions that David had something to do with it or seemed to know about it??? I guess the pain drugs made her hosed up for the rest of the movie. Also maybe I missed something but why was the huge expensive auto-doc machine set up only for men, why does it even have gender configurations? Could it not fit a female medical database on the 500mb USB stick it has for a hard drive or something? Also isn't it the private medical bay for a woman?? I feel like I must have missed something important here because otherwise it doesn't make any sense at all.
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Nov 7, 2015 22:31
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Party Boat posted:The autodoc was specifically for Weyland but his presence on the ship was a secret, so they said it was for Vickers. I'll buy it. Still seems weird that it even needs to be exclusively configured. Why not just include both databases or what ever? But wasn't Vickers in the dark about her father being onboard as well? He seemed surprised to see her personally there. If she was in the dark wouldn't she have noticed her personal medical machine not set for her half the population? And I guess he looks so hosed up and fake because he's "had work". I'll buy that too. Horrible over-use of plastic surgery ends up making a person look like they're wearing terrible makeup.
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Nov 8, 2015 01:20
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Tenzarin posted:When I create species on a whim, I will make sure to go back to help them draw maps to my races top secret weapon facilities. I'm assuming it was like just their nearest base or what ever, nearest space port or supply depot or what ever. Could be used for peaceful missions, could be used for bio-weapons. Maybe the fact that it was never meant to be a genocide depot was why their poo poo got away from them. They tried to convert a tourist information centre into a forward extermination base. You'd think with their amazing bio-engineering technology they could make a more simple and safe weapon. Something that just wipes out humans that they're immune to. But from Alien we learn these idiots don't have very good OHSA in their bio-weapons transport.
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Nov 8, 2015 07:24
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Tenzarin posted:I don't always run away from black goo, but when I do I run into the room where it is kept. He left his space wallet in there. Or maybe he was running from a slightly different bio-weapon and was going to use the black goo to counter the previous out of control bio-weapon They seem to have a ton on board and solve all problems in their society with convoluted extremely unpredictable bio-weapons.
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Nov 8, 2015 10:17
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Steve2911 posted:Prometheus us absolutely a prequel to Alien. It's literally the origin story of everything in that movie. It sort of isn't though. Nothing in Prometheus really directly relates to Alien. I guess it makes the corporation aware that the "engineers" exist, and perhaps that's why they were so adamant that the crew investigate the signal. But does Prometheus add anything to Alien? Does it answer any questions or provide any insight? It's in the same universe and involves the same corporation and probably some of the same aliens but that's about it. If nothing in Prometheus happened, if the Nostromo was the first human ship to ever find an engineer ship, nothing would have played out any differently.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:22
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I thought it was a prequel to Alien 3, and I'm hungry. It possibly could be. 2001 shows humans first really venturing and establishing them selves in space. The drat corporations could have covered up everything about the monolith. Also blade runner and total recall are also in the alien universe because I enjoy them and I enjoy alien.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:20
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Steve2911 posted:It literally shows you the origin of the Alien, or at least a good chunk of it. The ship the nostromo finds is super old, super super old, they mention fossilization, meaning the ships and the dead pilot were there for many thousands, perhaps millions of years. The engineers in Prometheus were killed very "recently", only about 2000 years ago. The engineers are probably really good bio-engineers and have created all sorts of creatures and bio-tech. It's possible both the black goo and the xenomorph are their creations, or at least their discoveries. But from the fact that their spaceships and technology have a very similar look and feel to the alien I'm guessing both are creations. We really don't know, there's a lot of potentially cool mysteries still out there. But the ship found on LV-426 was there long long before the events in Prometheus or the holo-recording of the engineers loving up. Probably the same species and technology (engineer bio-weapons) but totally unrelated events. The creature at the very end of Prometheus is very different from the xenomorph. Similar, but different. It's like an alien seeing a bear then seeing a dog and assuming they are the same species. Totally part of the same general family of life, but not the same. I'm guessing the engineers have a whole menagerie of bio-engineered life forms they use for various reasons. The alien we see in Alien is just one of them, as is the black goo, the snake things, the big loving squid guy, and the thing that came out of the engineer. All based on the same "technology" but different products. And I think that would be a good direction to take the franchise, away from the specific model of xenomorph we're all so used to, let's see what else the engineers cooked up. Maybe there's whole planets with whole bio-engineered biosphere made up of horrible geiger creatures. Maybe most of them aren't even hostile, just workers or tools of some sort. Little dudes that clean starships, things that eat asteroids and poo poo out bio-ships. So much potential stuff to see.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:19
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Lurdiak posted:But why did a little fish come out of Holloways' eye? I was watching the movie very intently but I never noticed anything come out of anyone's eyes! I even remembered this exact quote before watching the movie because I hate anything eye related.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:26
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It really all comes down to respecting or trusting the writers/film makers. Some people have become cynical from really bad scify writing where they're just making poo poo up as they go and change their mind and ret-con poo poo constantly, so when they see a movie that just raises a ton of questions and doesn't explain much they're sick of that poo poo because they don't trust or believe the writer actually has the answers and don't expect them to be answered in a satisfying way.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:46
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Xenomrph posted:The recent Prometheus comics had a good name for the black goo: "Accelerant". While the comic doesn't codify what the black goo does or its origins, it does imply that it causes rapid and unpredictable molecular change and cellular mutation. When they first discover the head room we see some tiny little worms in the dirt. Later after the black goo has leaked out, we see some incredibly scary and clearly aggressive snake-worm things. I always got the strong feeling showing the harmless worms and then the huge snake was supposed to tell the audience that the black goo rapidly mutates things and makes them more dangerous and probably more violent and aggressive. Little worms turned into huge snake. Dude's sperm turned into huge octopus face-rape machine along with him probably slowly mutating into something as well. Human dunked in the stuff turned into a super-human angry killing machine that was adapted to the environment (didn't need suit anymore). And, after the octopus thing impregnated the engineer something very close to an Alien came out, although this alien seemed a lot less bio-mechnical looking. So, does the black goo just keep randomly violently mutating things until the life cycle reaches a perfect killing machine, which often ends up looking like the Alien? The worm-snake and the giant octopus did not look anything like an Alien or engineer technology (ie gieger stuff). Is the Alien a product of using the black goo along with science to control or craft the results? Is the Alien the product of the black goo being exposed for a long time to the various bio-mechanical creations of the engineers? In Alien we see a strong resemblance between the Alien and the ship it is found on, it looks like they are clearly from the same place or were created by the same hand. Were the engineers or space jockey's basing their technology and style on the alien or the other way around? Because we know the black goo does not always result in creatures that look like they were designed by a mad Swissman, but that it sometimes does. So??? Cool mysteries! Or just a total lack of thought and planning! Who knows.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:02
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Snowman_McK posted:If you want to know the answer to a question a work of art raises, it is a good question. I can also, almost guarantee, that you don't actually want them answered. Absolutely true. Ever since the first Alien movie I've been absolutely captivated by the mystery of the space jockey. I know I could lie to my self that the engineers aren't the space jockey's but I think it's fairly obvious that they are the "official" answer to that question. Then again there's lots of good writing that have set up very captivating mysteries with entirely satisfying solutions.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:13
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Snowman_McK posted:This will sound snarky, so I'm apologising in advance. Like what? I actually can't think of one myself. I'm not denying the possibility, but what films/books/tv shows are you thinking of when you say that? A lot of decent horror, movies and books. I always thought lovecraft did a good job sort of explaining mysteries while still keeping them alien and mysterious.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
I guess I really need to watch pervert's guide to cinema.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:14
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Basebf555 posted:As someone who enjoys the first hour of Alien much more than the second hour, I'd have been fine with every Alien sequel being about a completely different "first contact with new form of life" scenario. All directed by Ridley Scott of course. I strongly agree with this. I just love gritty tense space exploration. My favourite parts of Alien are the parts with no alien in it. Just regular ship life, checking out a spooky planet, poo poo going wrong. Hell I'd be fine with an "alien" movie with no alien in it. Maybe just some corporate drama stranding some people on a creepy planet. What ever, just give me clunky tech and a spooky oppressive vibe. Have them deal with rival corporate sabotage. Dangerous or unethical cargo, anything, just give me cool space situations.
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Nov 16, 2015 23:04
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Lil Mama Im Sorry posted:Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but in Alien 3 when Ripley goes looking for the Xenomorph to have it kill her, she hits a large tubular pipe that she mistakes for the Alien's head. Does this seem like a reference to the often analyzed phallic anatomy of the Xenomorph to anyone else? I mean within the film, it seems plausible that Ripley is so full of fear in that scene that she mistakes a pipe for the alien, but within the greater context of the franchise and the commentary surrounding its imagery, it seems like there's another meaning there. lol if you think there's actually an alien in alien 3 and can't figure out the very obvious fact that it's all her delusions and is in fact killing everyone here self. It's very fight-club esq but probably beyond most of you peon's ability to understand, but understanding or not it's absolutely a fact.
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Nov 21, 2015 23:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:the (superior) theatrical cut Mods?????
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Nov 22, 2015 20:40
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I prefer the ox and the less gross death. Space movie opinions!
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Nov 23, 2015 06:31
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There's a lot about Blomkamp's movies I don't like or I think are dumb, but an accurate reflection of class relations isn't one of them. Why does that make people mad?
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Nov 27, 2015 21:42
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