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Shbobdb posted:Christian furs. Shaun the Sheep is wholesome, Christian programming.
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Sep 16, 2016 01:54
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The most common arguments for Christianity being the one and only true religion can generally be applied to any religion. Buddhism not so much because the Buddha didn't claim divinity, he just said the truth was there and he found it and shared it. Even so it's a logical conclusion starting from false premises in the end. I'm certainly not claiming Christianity is the one true religion - all religions (or belief systems) are less than true. The Kingdom of God is more 'real' than this reality is, one way to look at it is 'The Matrix', but the older Gnostic idea was Christ as the guy who can come and go from "Plato's Cave". Human perceptions and record keeping are imperfect media and religions are 'afterimages' of visitations (Buddha being one example). These are impressions I have gotten from Ti & Do's information and I could be wrong about any number of details. But I'm sure Ti & Do saw 'ET' and it was like getting a call from home.
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Sep 16, 2016 01:55
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Just a heads up to everyone itt McDowell is a literal Heavens's Gate cultist now for some reason.
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Sep 16, 2016 02:19
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I love a good gimmick.
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Sep 16, 2016 02:33
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Even 'Hook' has a divine lesson if you know how to look at itDo - 'Beyond Human' Session 6 posted:Oh, while I'm thinking about a movie, I have to bring up that the class recently saw the movie "Hook," and it was interesting. Of course, Hook represents evil, or Satan, and Peter Pan represents the good guy. When Hook had Peter's rightful son in his presence, he wanted really to see if he couldn't get Peter's children to see him as father and to imitate him. He didn't have much success with Peter's daughter. She couldn't quite stop doing anything but missing Peter. But because the son didn't really understand much about Peter as his father, the son for awhile "bought into" Hook, because Hook gave him so much attention and elevated him so, as does Satan. He gives you a lot of attention. He elevates you so, and he even lets you imitate him. He can give you all kinds of success and authority and power and things of this world. But as soon as Peter came back in the picture, and Peter's son really began to see Peter for what he was, the son apologized to his father, and he said, "I'm yours. Hook is not my father." And he quickly realized how much he had gone astray. And, of course, Peter felt guilty, because Peter felt like he hadn't really let his son know him. That what his son knew of him wasn't enough to win him. So, Peter certainly understood how his son could go for Hook. Well, I'm sorry. I had to bring that illustration up. It was a good one. And the movie had a lot of good parallel lessons in it as far as the conflict between good and evil are concerned. 'Contact' and 'The Fifth Element' were both released in 1997 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvVRzfh_d1I You can make up your own mind.
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Sep 16, 2016 02:48
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McDowell posted:I'm certainly not claiming Christianity is the one true religion - all religions (or belief systems) are less than true. The Kingdom of God is more 'real' than this reality is, one way to look at it is 'The Matrix', but the older Gnostic idea was Christ as the guy who can come and go from "Plato's Cave". Human perceptions and record keeping are imperfect media and religions are 'afterimages' of visitations (Buddha being one example). These are impressions I have gotten from Ti & Do's information and I could be wrong about any number of details. But I'm sure Ti & Do saw 'ET' and it was like getting a call from home. And this is why you should not consume psychedelics in excess.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:18
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Woolie Wool posted:And this is why you should not consume psychedelics in excess. Disagree. Psychedelics in excess are awesome. But you need to have some sort of an actual grounding. If you look at ritualistic use of psychedelics in areas where they occur naturally, they have all sorts of ritual proscriptions as to their use. That way even the Shaman who is OUT OF HIS loving MIND on drugs is able to be a meaningful mystic. We all want the crazy individualized revelations of religion without the actual work that would make those revelations meaningful. And it leads to lazy new aged poo poo like this.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:39
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Do and the class certainly weren't lazy or 'New Age'. They all lived without sex, booze, or drugs - and believed strongly enough to lay down their lives. If you think about it the ritual of baptism is a kind of 'brainwashing' - representing both an individual and collective overcoming of bad habits.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:43
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McDowell posted:Do and the class certainly weren't lazy or 'New Age'. They all lived without sex, booze, or drugs - and believed strongly enough to lay down their lives. If you think about it the ritual of baptism is a kind of 'brainwashing' - representing both an individual and collective overcoming of bad habits. Adult baptism is one of those totally weird things because "in-universe" it's totally insanely evil.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:49
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Well it looks like he got the wish in his custom title, because his mind sure as gently caress isn't living on Earth.
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Sep 16, 2016 03:50
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I'm just going to believe that you all belong to competing cults and you're each trying to get me to join one of them. It won't work!
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Sep 16, 2016 03:51
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I wonder how many acquaintances just assumed the Heaven's Gate leadership was going to come back with some ketamine when they said they were visiting a Mexican veterinarian for a religious experience?
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Sep 16, 2016 03:57
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Shbobdb posted:Adult baptism is one of those totally weird things because "in-universe" it's totally insanely evil. Yeah it isn't about performing a ritual like a literal baptism - it seems more a mind set of starting fresh. A primary concept from the Next Level is 'Check Partners' which has been adapted into the human condition as marriage - individuals are paired off so they don't take any action without at least checking with each other if it seems right to do. It isn't about genitals or reproduction, it is more about complementing each other to be a more 'positive/productive unit' - to risk sounding 'new age' or 'scifi' or whatever. An interesting little episode from 1897
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Sep 16, 2016 04:04
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I had the pleasure of working with ex-Christian cultists and a lot of Pentecostals and Mormons at one of my last jobs. One lady hadn't seen a movie over a PG rating until she was 32 because she was raised in a cult. It's my hypothesis that these sort of weird environments lead to a lot of things like furries.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:11
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You'd think if the next level or whatever was as wise as they say they'd have found a better way to communicate than crappy movies, a suicide cult, and the ramblings of a manic depressive.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:26
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OK, looking at this guy's rap sheet, I strongly suspect he's schizophrenic. Jesus Christ. 
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Sep 16, 2016 04:37
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Who What Now posted:You'd think if the next level or whatever was as wise as they say they'd have found a better way to communicate than crappy movies, a suicide cult, and the ramblings of a manic depressive. You're free to give things that negative spin, sure. But it all happens for a reason.
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Sep 16, 2016 04:54
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Woolie Wool posted:OK, looking at this guy's rap sheet, I strongly suspect he's schizophrenic. Jesus Christ. I hope you are talking about me, because my rap sheet has way more cred than a loving tryhard like McDowell 
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Sep 16, 2016 04:58
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Woolie Wool posted:I find it kind of ironic and amusing that nerd atheist communities are so steeped in science fiction and fantasy, both of which employ a mythic mode of storytelling to spin tales of a quasi-religious nature and evoke feelings of divinity. Myth and mysticism are key human drives. It's far worse when they author statements of a-myth and a-mysticism. It is among the worst things to see a novel written by someone that presents their personal aspirational politic as absolute truth. It just seems like certain people walk the labyrinth and brick it up behind them, taking the straight and winding path that makes them like a figurative Minotaur.
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Sep 17, 2016 00:20
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Wren reporting for duty. Didn't see this thread before now. I wrote my dissertation on women who grew up in modern Christian and Jewish communities and chose fundamentalist ones. Edit: I also research psychedelic drugs for a living, but I didn't know that was going to come in handy in this thread in particular...
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Sep 18, 2016 20:00
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WrenP-Complete posted:Wren reporting for duty. Didn't see this thread before now. I wrote my dissertation on women who grew up in modern Christian and Jewish communities and chose fundamentalist ones. Elaborate? That sounds fascinating.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:30
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apokaladle posted:Elaborate? That sounds fascinating. On which part? And thanks. Edit: I haven't caught up with this thread yet so I'm not totally sure where the conversation is at.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:34
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WrenP-Complete posted:On which part? And thanks. Give a brief overview of your dissertation and we'll go from there. Seconding that it sounds really interesting.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:35
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McDowell posted:You're free to give things that negative spin, sure. But it all happens for a reason. For what its worth I just wanted to say that this post feels eerily like looking into my own past. I'm just a random rear end in a top hat on the internet and not an expert, but in my opinion you should give some thought to seeking professional help McDowell.
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Sep 19, 2016 01:43
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Prester Jane posted:For what its worth I just wanted to say that this post feels eerily like looking into my own past. I'm just a random rear end in a top hat on the internet and not an expert, but in my opinion you should give some thought to seeking professional help McDowell. No! Keep posting McDowell! And if you get banned, be sure to make many more accounts.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:01
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Woolie Wool posted:I find it kind of ironic and amusing that nerd atheist communities are so steeped in science fiction and fantasy, both of which employ a mythic mode of storytelling to spin tales of a quasi-religious nature and evoke feelings of divinity. Who What Now posted:Give a brief overview of your dissertation and we'll go from there. Seconding that it sounds really interesting.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:16
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Prester Jane posted:For what its worth I just wanted to say that this post feels eerily like looking into my own past. I'm just a random rear end in a top hat on the internet and not an expert, but in my opinion you should give some thought to seeking professional help McDowell. Thanks, I do see a shrink and take an SSRI, but I really think there is something to be said about the UFO Two. They weren't brainwashing kids or anything sinister - anyone who really is interested in their information can look into it while it is available online. Everything is a little subculture these days, the contradiction in race war-driven, Trump-voting 'Christians' has to be reconciled with the real message of what the Kingdom of God is and how it has strict requirements for entry. Zapffe's 'Last Messiah' has been somewhat realized. Some people would rather enjoy their 'Holy War' meme.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:27
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McDowell posted:Thanks, I do see a shrink and take an SSRI, but I really think there is something to be said about the UFO Two. They weren't brainwashing kids or anything sinister - Mass suicide is pretty sinister.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:42
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Who What Now posted:Mass suicide is pretty sinister. Death is an important part of any worldview. IVF and assisted suicide are subjects that religions claim authority over. Norms have to come from somewhere.
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Sep 19, 2016 02:53
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McDowell posted:Thanks, I do see a shrink and take an SSRI, but I really think there is something to be said about the UFO Two. They weren't brainwashing kids or anything sinister - anyone who really is interested in their information can look into it while it is available online. Everything is a little subculture these days, the contradiction in race war-driven, Trump-voting 'Christians' has to be reconciled with the real message of what the Kingdom of God is and how it has strict requirements for entry. Zapffe's 'Last Messiah' has been somewhat realized. Some people would rather enjoy their 'Holy War' meme. Yeah so don't take this the wrong way or anything but the exact sort of spaghetti logic you are employing in your response here is the kind of thing that makes me take my recovery (from mental illness) as seriously as if I were an addict recovering from opiate addiction. I used to write gobbeldegook like that all the time. (Some would say I still do, but that is another discussion.) I would suggest here that even though you don't realize it your response here only really makes sense to you, because it references a bunch of internally held ideas that underpin your worldview that you (subconciously) presume are universal to basically everyone. They are in fact not universal and as a result your response is very difficult to parse for anyone who is not you.
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Sep 19, 2016 04:26
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McDowell posted:Thanks, I do see a shrink and take an SSRI, but I really think there is something to be said about the UFO Two. They weren't brainwashing kids or anything sinister - anyone who really is interested in their information can look into it while it is available online. Everything is a little subculture these days, the contradiction in race war-driven, Trump-voting 'Christians' has to be reconciled with the real message of what the Kingdom of God is and how it has strict requirements for entry. Zapffe's 'Last Messiah' has been somewhat realized. Some people would rather enjoy their 'Holy War' meme.
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Sep 19, 2016 04:34
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My brief brush with evangelicalism came when I was a vulnerable 18 year old just after leaving home and having a spiritual crisis as a Christian who was doing Sunday school teaching. This guy appeared from nowhere at my church and used all the tricks of offering a community of friends etc to get me to go to a couple of their meetings. These involved the full speaking in tongues thing, the music, all the trappings. I was living with the family of high school friends and one of them, an atheist, got rather concerned about this and accompanied me to my second meeting. It was rather hard to feel the spirit when someone you basically know and trust is treating the whole thing like an anthropology expedition. Smiling and avoiding confrontation, he went around inquiring about what language they thought they were speaking in. I later made my excuses to avoid further contact, realising I'd been swept up in euphoria, to the snarling displeasure of my 'handler'. I'm still grateful for that intervention, it forced me to start thinking for myself in these matters, and I soon lost contact with all Christianity. There are some ideas specific to Christianity that lend support to harmful offshoots like evangelicalism: that combination of authoritarianism and monotheism is very resistant to other forms of spirituality, it attacks the individual sense of self as a sin, a failure and abuses the concept of family. I think though that I was more hurt by the very hypocritical use of power, that the 'family' was a mask for recruitment and who knows what other coercion might have followed. The whole experience made me deeply suspicious of such appeals in the future.
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Sep 19, 2016 10:24
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I know my worldview isn't universal, most people are programmed by television to believe in nothing but the self, which is what has allowed Trump to go so far. He is the culmination of amoral material values, an idol if you like. It is clearly exposed how 'Christians' really worship objects here on Earth (money, flags, genes) instead of honoring the God of the universe. Atheists and agnostics are usually quite intelligent, they can make up their own mind about their scarlet letter.
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Sep 19, 2016 11:39
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Hi McDowell, nice to meet you. My name is Wren.
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Sep 19, 2016 13:07
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McDowell posted:I know my worldview isn't universal, most people are programmed by television to believe in nothing but the self, which is what has allowed Trump to go so far. He is the culmination of amoral material values, an idol if you like. It is clearly exposed how 'Christians' really worship objects here on Earth (money, flags, genes) instead of honoring the God of the universe. Atheists and agnostics are usually quite intelligent, they can make up their own mind about their scarlet letter. So what was to blame for people not worshipping God the right way before the advent of the TV? Radio? And before that, was it the printing press and movable type? What about before even that, was it the concept of written or spoken language? I mean, you've gone on record saying that glasses and prosthetics are a creation of the devil because they let people focus on the material, so it's hard to know where you'd draw the line. Besides that, the age of TV as society's boogeymen is long gone, you're supposed to blame microchips and the Internet for everything bad today. Get with the times or nobody is going to take your cult seriously.
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Sep 19, 2016 13:43
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Who What Now posted:Give a brief overview of your dissertation and we'll go from there. Seconding that it sounds really interesting. I will do, I am just gearing up for a busy day at work so it may be in a day or two.
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Sep 19, 2016 13:55
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Who What Now posted:So what was to blame for people not worshipping God the right way before the advent of the TV? Radio? And before that, was it the printing press and movable type? What about before even that, was it the concept of written or spoken language? I mean, you've gone on record saying that glasses and prosthetics are a creation of the devil because they let people focus on the material, so it's hard to know where you'd draw the line. Nice strawman. I am talking about a message that transcends all media, including our brains. I previously mentioned how augmented reality can become a sort of 'blinder' for social control and you've decided I'm a militant luddite.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:06
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WrenP-Complete posted:Wren reporting for duty. Didn't see this thread before now. I wrote my dissertation on women who grew up in modern Christian and Jewish communities and chose fundamentalist ones. Did the dissertation include anything about how the women that grew up in those communities didn't really get much of a choice in the matter? Because my own experiences with fundamentalists is that they are all about teaching women that they are property and have no free will of their own to do anything.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:20
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McDowell posted:Nice strawman. I am talking about a message that transcends all media, including our brains. Ok, then ignore the snark, this being the case why would TV be uniquely to blame for people not getting this supposed message? Especially considering you've said that TV and movies sometimes are the message? Which is it? quote:I previously mentioned how augmented reality can become a sort of 'blinder' for social control and you've decided I'm a militant luddite. You specified ocular implants to allow the blind to see as being a bad thing, because it wouldn't be "real", it would be filtered through cameras and thus would be the devil.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:29
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Wade Wilson posted:Did the dissertation include anything about how the women that grew up in those communities didn't really get much of a choice in the matter? Because my own experiences with fundamentalists is that they are all about teaching women that they are property and have no free will of their own to do anything. My dissertation is about women who grow up in modern communities and then move to fundamentalist ones, but there's some background on the role of women in each of these communities. I don't know exactly what you mean by "didn't get much of a choice in the matter" as no children are given free choice about what community they grow up in. Your second sentence makes me think you are talking about what choices women have in a broader way, but I'm not sure what you mean. Please clarify.
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Sep 19, 2016 14:39
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