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No I was discussing augmented reality and hypothesizing that in the near future people with fully functional eyes will be expected to filter reality through a camera/computer - which is even more dystopian than Orwell's viewscreens. Restoring sight and mobility to people who lack them was part of Christ's mission. Science is making these miracles common, which is why Ti & Do came back to fulfill prophecy and update our understanding of Heaven. When someone tells you to 'get with the program' it is worth asking what that program is and who devised it. One can embrace popular darwinism where subgroups compete for dominion or one can choose to turn inwards to select which values and beliefs pass 'the smell test'.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:05
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McDowell posted:No I was discussing augmented reality and hypothesizing that in the near future people with fully functional eyes will be expected to filter reality through a camera/computer - which is even more dystopian than Orwell's viewscreens. How is it uniquely worse than any other computer or phone screen? And why couldn't it be used to spread 'The Message' in the way that you think certain movies do?
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Sep 19, 2016 15:17
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McDowell posted:No I was discussing augmented reality and hypothesizing that in the near future people with fully functional eyes will be expected to filter reality through a camera/computer - which is even more dystopian than Orwell's viewscreens. (also I said hi to be polite cause I'm entering this conversation in the middle and I'm a little sad you didn't say hi back)
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Sep 19, 2016 15:19
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McDowell posted:Restoring sight and mobility to people who lack them was part of Christ's mission. Science is making these miracles common, which is why Ti & Do came back to fulfill prophecy and update our understanding of Heaven. ....what? Okay, hold on here. These are not miracles. They are treatments. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, conflating the scientific advances we've made in medicine with 'Christ's Miracles' is wishful thinking, and attempting to attach religious significance to medical science is really disturbing, especially given the real harm to actual medicine some Christian groups do with mysticism and distrust.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:24
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Who What Now posted:How is it uniquely worse than any other computer or phone screen? And why couldn't it be used to spread 'The Message' in the way that you think certain movies do? Because the reptilian multicultural liberal communist c-ckservative Bilderberg Rothschild Illuminati are using augmented reality to, like, hack our brains, man!  *is tackled to the floor by orderlies and forcibly administered Thorazine*
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Sep 19, 2016 15:24
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Woolie Wool posted:Because the reptilian multicultural liberal communist c-ckservative Bilderberg Rothschild Illuminati are using augmented reality to, like, hack our brains, man! But then he says that artificial eyes are good if they restore sight to the blind. But what if those eyes are capable of AR, are they then bad again? Which is worse, blindness or Pokemon GO? What if the eye implants could be used for AR, but the recipient chooses not to use that particular function? Can I turn Satan's power on and off? I know it's a lot to ask from a schizophrenic, but I just want some consistency.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:31
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CommieGIR posted:....what? Attaching religious significance to medical science is fitting considering the amount of resources that Christian groups spend on healthcare.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:31
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The Kingfish posted:Attaching religious significance to medical science is fitting considering the amount of resources that Christian groups spend on healthcare. And they could put stock in Ford, it wouldn't make Ford suddenly Christ's car of choice. That's not how it works, and considering they still tend to be incredibly detrimental to women's health and LBGT health issues, its best we not try to conflacte the two. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 15:37
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All religions or belief systems are less than truth, now that Ti & Do are gone even their information is being 'adulterated' so this effort of mine is futile. I'm not suggesting any kind of utopia here on Earth - indeed coming to terms with the impossibility of such a thing is a stepping stone to the bigger picture. While religions illustrate our existence as a battleground between good and evil, it seems to me our time on Earth is a debugging process where individual determinations of truth/error or right/wrong are evaluated. One can see how mainstream evangelism is a program that perpetuates the error of ego and dominion.
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Sep 19, 2016 15:59
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Who the gently caress are Ti & Do?
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Sep 19, 2016 16:21
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WrenP-Complete posted:My dissertation is about women who grow up in modern communities and then move to fundamentalist ones, but there's some background on the role of women in each of these communities. The broader sense, or maybe your definition of fundamentalist is too narrow (ha!). Even your nominally "modern" churches (or at least what passes for such in the area I live in) will tell women to keep their mouths shut and not attempt to make decisions on their own, it's not just for hardcore fundamentalists.
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Sep 19, 2016 16:22
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Piell posted:Who the gently caress are Ti & Do? I also am not sure...
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Sep 19, 2016 16:22
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WrenP-Complete posted:I also am not sure... Any search for it brought up Heaven's Gate references  Nope, I was right, its references to Heaven's Gate leaders Bonnie Nettles (Ti) and Marshall Herf Applewhite (Do) CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Sep 19, 2016 |
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Sep 19, 2016 16:23
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Wade Wilson posted:The broader sense, or maybe your definition of fundamentalist is too narrow (ha!). Even your nominally "modern" churches (or at least what passes for such in the area I live in) will tell women to keep their mouths shut and not attempt to make decisions on their own, it's not just for hardcore fundamentalists. Ha, got it. At first pass I thought you were saying something about children making choices that aren't available in almost any culture. Working definition of fundamentalist Christian is simple, they acknowledge one another as "co-belligerents" in a cultural struggle, Hegel, etc. I'll see if I can effort post later this week but right now I'm rocking low blood pressure and am hanging upside down to get more blood in my head.
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Sep 19, 2016 16:26
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CommieGIR posted:Any search for it brought up Heaven's Gate references I wasn't joking about the cult stuff.
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Sep 19, 2016 16:31
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Neither was I. McDowell is a heaven's gate cultist who missed the comet and is stuck here on earth with a bunch of normies. You can actually piece together bits and pieces of what he's talking about from their hilarious olde fashion website. http://heavensgate.com/
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Sep 19, 2016 16:36
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Okay. McDowell, I know nothing about Do and Ti and I suspect you may say that information I might get from Wikipedia or Google Scholar would be biased in some way. Could you please tell me what these people (and/or their group and philosophy) mean to you? Secondarily, since the conversation is my primary goal here, so hearing about personal meaning is most important, if I want to find out more, how could I educate myself?
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Sep 19, 2016 16:38
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McDowell posted:All religions or belief systems are less than truth, now that Ti & Do are gone even their information is being 'adulterated' so this effort of mine is futile. I'm not suggesting any kind of utopia here on Earth - indeed coming to terms with the impossibility of such a thing is a stepping stone to the bigger picture. While religions illustrate our existence as a battleground between good and evil, it seems to me our time on Earth is a debugging process where individual determinations of truth/error or right/wrong are evaluated. One can see how mainstream evangelism is a program that perpetuates the error of ego and dominion. Piell posted:Who the gently caress are Ti & Do?
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Sep 19, 2016 16:49
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We answered this. Its Heaven's Gate leaders.
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Sep 19, 2016 16:52
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I'm not entirely sure McDowell isn't just trolling here, as this is a post he wrote to me about 3 years ago in the 9-11 truther thread.McDowell posted:I flipped through one of Icke's books and it was crazy - lots of stuff about vibrations, holograms, and planes. He also had lots of illustrations by Dees. I'm not surprised they are more tolerable - it seems like Icke is building a narrative for chill types who buy into healing crystals and stuff. Alex Jones sucks up to Icke now and then and it seems like he mainly puts the same narrative into an obnoxious Limbaugh frame.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:11
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WrenP-Complete posted:Okay. McDowell, I know nothing about Do and Ti and I suspect you may say that information I might get from Wikipedia or Google Scholar would be biased in some way. Could you please tell me what these people (and/or their group and philosophy) mean to you? Secondarily, since the conversation is my primary goal here, so hearing about personal meaning is most important, if I want to find out more, how could I educate myself? Nah you're fine looking things up on your own - I am trying to act as a relay to remind people of the Away Team, there is a recent book about the cult by Benjamin Zeller which is a fairly level-headed secular take on things. You can also read the site and the all the videos are on youtube under the 'HeavensGateDatabase' channel.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:37
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Prester Jane posted:I'm not entirely sure McDowell isn't just trolling here, as this is a post he wrote to me about 3 years ago in the 9-11 truther thread. I've been meaning to PM you about collaboration and writing! Hi!
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Sep 19, 2016 17:39
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Prester Jane posted:I'm not entirely sure McDowell isn't just trolling here, as this is a post he wrote to me about 3 years ago in the 9-11 truther thread. Maybe he fell ill in between then and now.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:49
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Prester Jane posted:I'm not entirely sure McDowell isn't just trolling here, as this is a post he wrote to me about 3 years ago in the 9-11 truther thread. If he's a troll he's a dedicated one.
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Sep 19, 2016 17:54
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Wade Wilson posted:The broader sense, or maybe your definition of fundamentalist is too narrow (ha!). Even your nominally "modern" churches (or at least what passes for such in the area I live in) will tell women to keep their mouths shut and not attempt to make decisions on their own, it's not just for hardcore fundamentalists. If you consume Christian media even the ones that aren't awful fire and brimstone evangelicals will at least nod toward women belonging in the home. The religion overall is fundamentally patriarchal. The ideal image presented is almost always the 1950s nuclear family.
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Sep 19, 2016 19:25
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This is a nice record of when Ti and Do first came public (then using the names Peep & Bo - looking for their sheep). Looking at world events since 1997 I can see how this world is being recycled, and I have placed myself in their keeping.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:04
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Dude existence is what we got, and our being is not something to give up for the ideal. The ideal isn't the real.
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Sep 19, 2016 20:29
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The religion overall is fundamentally patriarchal. Nah. Its actually fundamentally egalitarian.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:15
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The Kingfish posted:Nah. Its actually fundamentally egalitarian. Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 1 Corinthians 14:34
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Sep 19, 2016 21:20
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BrandorKP posted:Dude existence is what we got, and our being is not something to give up for the ideal. The ideal isn't the real. Then Jesus said to all of them, “If anyone would come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it." Individuals who question authority (both religious and secular) have a little spark of insight toward overcoming this world - but must also deal with the risks of rebelliousness (Lucifer isn't some cartoon devil - He was a being of light). I'm not suggesting anyone can put on a superman cape and fly off the nearest roof - just passing along information so individuals might be 'aware' enough in some future incarnation to recognize and connect with a Next Level Representative.
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Sep 19, 2016 21:56
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The Kingfish posted:Nah. Its actually fundamentally egalitarian. lol
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Sep 19, 2016 22:04
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Instant Sunrise posted:Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 1 Corinthians 14:34 "Women can't be priests" - an egalitarian religion. Yes I know that some sects deviated from that in more modern times but the point still stands; "women can be priests too" was a part of the Cathar heresy which was, you know, a heresy and dealt with appropriately.
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Sep 19, 2016 23:22
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I think it was a pun based on fundamental/fundamentalist.
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Sep 19, 2016 23:24
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Catharism is an interesting subject, their ideas aren't too different from Ti & Do's information - I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some members of the Away Team were incarnate at that time and place. Some of them had been on this planet for the entire age (the past 6000 years) being 'born again' many times as they developed under the supervision of the Next Level. You might imagine how one's mind/spirit is tested in various circumstances - witnessing the Sermon on the Mount, building a 'heretical' church in the 12th century, and joining a 'cult' in the 20th.
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Sep 20, 2016 01:45
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McDowell posted:Catharism is an interesting subject, their ideas aren't too different from Ti & Do's information - I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some members of the Away Team were incarnate at that time and place. Some of them had been on this planet for the entire age (the past 6000 years) being 'born again' many times as they developed under the supervision of the Next Level. You might imagine how one's mind/spirit is tested in various circumstances - witnessing the Sermon on the Mount, building a 'heretical' church in the 12th century, and joining a 'cult' in the 20th. Please get help.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:19
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McDowell posted:Catharism is an interesting subject, their ideas aren't too different from Ti & Do's information - I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some members of the Away Team were incarnate at that time and place. Some of them had been on this planet for the entire age (the past 6000 years) being 'born again' many times as they developed under the supervision of the Next Level. You might imagine how one's mind/spirit is tested in various circumstances - witnessing the Sermon on the Mount, building a 'heretical' church in the 12th century, and joining a 'cult' in the 20th. Unlike the medieval Catholics with the Cathars, we do not want to burn you at the stake, we just want you to get mental health care so you can function normally again.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:44
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CommieGIR posted:Please get help.  'Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them.' I once met some Unification Church recruiters in the Newark Train Station, they asked me when I thought the second coming would occur and I already knew that it had happened in the 20th century. The Away Team wasn't here to judge and act righteous - everything has some value as a 'stepping stone' - you can make up your own mind and get control of your vehicle. Unlike Sun Myung Moon, Ti & Do aren't about an institution with a collection plate, a bake sale, and Sunday School for the kiddies. Which Golden Rule are we living by - the one spoken by Jesus or Keith David in 'They Live'? Lggody was a member of the Away Team who wrote this essay - he was a Colorado Republican in 1975 who met Do and never looked back.
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Sep 20, 2016 02:47
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I actually can't think of any major religion that isn't patriarchal. Which isn't that surprising considering all of them were founded and exist within patriarchal societies. Though, in fairness, all of them also have strong movements advocating a more egalitarian view.
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Sep 20, 2016 03:04
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Samuel Clemens posted:I actually can't think of any major religion that isn't patriarchal. Which isn't that surprising considering all of them were founded and exist within patriarchal societies. Though, in fairness, all of them also have strong movements advocating a more egalitarian view. Shaktism/Shakti dharma in India, also Shiva in the Hindu pantheon.
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Sep 20, 2016 03:49
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Samuel Clemens posted:I actually can't think of any major religion that isn't patriarchal. Which isn't that surprising considering all of them were founded and exist within patriarchal societies. Though, in fairness, all of them also have strong movements advocating a more egalitarian view. Sikhsim might count?
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Sep 20, 2016 08:23
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