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BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
I've been holding this for the longest time, but I've finally decided to go through with it:

I feel like this is an important enough issue to be discussed in full and with perspectives from all sides (yes, all sides. Just be sure to give a rational reason why you feel ideology A gets way too vilified or gets unfair precedence of ideology B )

Basically, what makes a person turn to these particular ideologies? Lack of education or information? A great majority of the people I come across online with these ideologies are ironically young men with Middle Class income with Graduate Degrees. Hell, some are married with children.

What exactly is the problem here? They usually reside nowhere near the areas they deem unsafe

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BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Upper middle class white guys with lovely opinions justifying their lovely opinions because they can't stand being wrong.

Im trying my level best to try and see this issue from alternative perspectives

Basically, they feel like there's a war against White people (Particularly Heterosexual White Men). They feel this way due to certain ideologies that conflict with their own (that are "Anti-White") being more pervasive.

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 1, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
The main reason I even made this thread is because I feel these particular groups are growing at an alarming rate. Its gotten to a point where they cannot be ignored anymore.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
Its not just America, look at what's going on in the UK and Europe.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Crain posted:

or they're trying to promote an even less baked scheme of "Actually it's a totally good idea to just change the whole system and just be complete assholes to everyone and put white men at the top of the social hierarchy!".

When called on this, they immediately try to convince whoever they're debating that they have no problems with Asians and Statistically Speaking Asians are the Superior ones

"It's not hate, it's the truth"

My personal pet peeve with them is their habit of constantly alluding to 1984, using words from the book like "ThoughtCrime" and what not, in attempt to style themselves as victims and misunderstood intellectuals.


EDIT:

Klaus88 posted:

Women say no, so they want to roll back the clock to a time when women didn't have the right to say no. On anything.

Oddly enough, I'm seeing a fair amount of women in these movements.

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 19:16 on Jul 1, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
You can't use Racist. That word is overused so it doesn't apply to them and their arguments.

You can't use Fascist. That word is overused so it doesn't apply to them and their arguments.

You can't use Bigot. That word is overused so it doesn't apply to them and their arguments.

You can't use White Supremacist. That word is overused so it doesn't apply to them and their arguments (see Asian IQ post).

You can't use Nazi. That word is overused so it doesn't apply to them and their arguments and also I'm Jewish/Half(insert ethnicity here)


A great majority of them seem to come from the South Park school of political thought where Liberals/Left Wing should hold themselves to some sort of Strawman where every opinion should be tolerated by them

"You should also be tolerant of the intolerant!"

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

wateroverfire posted:

OP, who are these people you want to otherize? Should I hate them or just condescendingly brush them off?

TIA.

Please state your worldview/grievances here. Just state your reasons for believing in such.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
I've noticed that sterilization is an Okay, Rational Solution to Ethno-Nationalists (particular White-Nationalists). Many of them seem to think how Israel is handling it's minority population is the Rational way.


How would they go about it? Is that REALLY the proper way to deal with Poors/Minorities/Whatever group pisses you off?

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Al Cowens posted:

OP, what was the psychology of you choosing "Race Realists" as your alias if you revile these people so much and do not wish for them to gain visibility? Was that a mod's doing?

Believe it or not, no revulsion here. Im mostly just fascinated by the whole thing.

The way they're so sure they have whole world figured out.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Helsing posted:

Watch this clip and replace "anti-semite" with "SJW" or "Cultural Marxist" and you've pretty much summed up the movement.

They don't just overcook a burger. :tinfoil:


Maybe you should put a bit of effort into substantiating some of the claims you've made so far, specifically:

1) These groups are growing at an "alarming rate"
2) There are significant numbers of women in these groups
3) The Dark Enlightenment and the rise of the far right in Europe are closely related

So far as I can tell none of these things are really true, but I'm open to persuasion here. What's your evidence?

Not wanting to run away or be considered unconstructive, I'll answer to the best of my ability

1: http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/05/30/3443037/europe-far-right-groups/


http://www.vocativ.com/culture/uncategorized/dark-enlightenment-creepy-internet-movement-youd-better-take-seriously/

https://solidarity-us.org/node/2637

I could go on, but you get the point.

2: google hbdchick. Theres plenty more but im not going to sit here and list every single one dude.

As far as 3 goes. Dont you think it's mighty peculiar how Dark Enlightenment became a thing RIGHT around a time where the UK and Europe are going in a insanely far right direction?

but i guess its just me then

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

rudatron posted:

In a way the era we're in reminds me of the political agitation just after the great depression, but worse because it's reaction/far-right that's jumped out the gates really hard.

I just feel like in general, we as a society (at least in America) are taking a huge leap backwards to a 1960's mindset. Just my depressing opinion

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jul 6, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
Speaking completely subjective here, I just feel theres this sort of weird fetization with the past in Contemporary American media.

I wish I could put my finger on it, I really do :smith:

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
I've noticed a great majority of the Racial Realists I've encountered online tend to have an over reliance on crime statistics as the End All Be All proof they need.

Circumstances are moot when you have proof certain minorities are Inherently More Violent

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

roymorrison posted:

if u dont have facebook or twitter u would have no idea these things youre freaking out about even exist

So basically just turn off facebook and twitter for a few weeks to clear out your system hth


If only that were true


I'm not freaking out about it either. Just curious is all.

Helsing posted:

So if I understand you correctly then you're suggesting that around the time that neoliberalism and globalism became the dominant ideologies of the mainstream American establishment there was a parallel shift among some demographics toward scientific racism and Austrian economics. This, combined with fears of a One World Government and a lot of resentment toward feminists and blacks, produced the core ideological suppositions of the contemporary far right, including NRx.

If that's your position then I certainly don't disagree with the fundamentals of your analysis. The late 1980s and early 1990s certainly saw major transformations within basically all of America's political tendencies, whether they were on the right, the left or firmly within the establishment.

However, I'm not sure whether this period was formative for the advocates of NRx specifically. They obviously navigate the same far right ideological ecosystem that was heavily reshaped by the events of the 90s, but it seems mistaken to cite that as their formative period. They're seemingly of a more recent vintage. For one thing, they are really a movement that is very hard to imagine without the internet, which wasn't as much of a cultural force back then. Also they bring in some novel ideas like advocating monarchical government and openly breaking with any allegiance, even rhetorical, to democracy or egalitarianism.


I think that the rise of the far right in Europe, the electoral success of Syriza in Greece, the decline of the Liberal party in Canada, the growing numbers of internet reactionaries and internet Marxists, and a million other things besides, all share some root causes: namely a bad economy, increasing competition for a scarcer pool of decent jobs, and a widespread sense of decline among some of the citizens of the first world democracies.

But while the success of these groups might in part be attributable to common causes, that doesn't mean that they can all be treated the same. The European far right may share some racialist ideas or even a reverence for monarchy with the thinkers of the Dark Enlightenment, but that doesn't mean they're directly rated.

The European far right actually has the makings of a genuine mass movement, and under the right set of conditions it might actually achieve some major political success. The Dark Enlightenment, by contrast, has no mass basis and doesn't want one. According to Nick Land they are practicing a form of "anti-politics" that involves an almost total exit from contemporary structures of political life. I I understand his article properly he advocates waiting until genetic engineering or other technological advances elevate the Dark Enlightenment ubermensch into their position of natural superiority rather than wasting time trying to seize control of political institutions.

So while there are no doubt some very broad shared causes I don't really see the Dark Enlightenment was being the same kind of movement as the National Front or BNP, and for that reason I do not find them particularly threatening.

Ah, thank you for the explanation.

I've realized now (and am slowly coming to peace with), the fact that no matter what you say to convince these people in debates. The Narrative will always prevail.

The Narrative based on Cold Hard Facts and Research (usually videos of minorities committing crimes)


The Narrative that proves that YOU are objectively right and THEY Irrational and going purely by emotion and Marxist/"Anti-White" Brainwashing

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
From my school courtyard

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Popular Thug Drink posted:

lmao what kind of racist goes to georgia state

You'd be surprised...

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Weldon Pemberton posted:

The fact that black IQ has been rising since the inception of records (and is rising more quickly lately) and that violent crime has fallen dramatically across all racial groups is also irrelevant.

A Very Special Type Of Person would retort that by mentioning the number of African Americans with mixed DNA, and then go from there

so sayeth The Narrative

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Gum posted:

There's also a very good reason why the 1950s is often citied as the decade when everything was better

Ok, what's the reason? Forgive if I'm coming off as a smartass as that's not my intent. I'm curious how.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Bob le Moche posted:

They're angry that things aren't going their way and they will blame literally everything else in the world for it (women, foreigners, gays, leftists, etc) except the white men who own and control everything. They hate democracy, and anything standing the way of the ruling class imposing their absolute will and total control, or any form of resistance by those below them. The white men at the top are strong and enlightened and blessed with the truth and anyone who opposes them is an irrational cancer on the purity of western society.

As with any fascism, their beliefs do not arise in a vacuum, their worldview is our current ideology of power taken to its logical conclusion. Everything about our society tells them that they are correct: IQ statistics, the actions of the police, the value of different people on the job market, immigration law, the prison population, the riots in the streets, etc. All these topics that are uncomfortable blind spots or taboos for liberalism take on the allure of forbidden knowledge for them, they think of themselves as having pierced the veil, seen through the contradictions, connected the dots (hence dark "enlightenment").

Our society is what produces these people, and it will continue to produce them because the cultural factors that are responsible for producing these people are also the very same factors that are necessary for the continued existence of various aspects of our society such as the nationstate, private business ownership, our education system, the police force, the military, etc, etc... The justifications that we need to create for the existence of these institutions are the very same thing which ends up creating these people down the line.

Wow, I really feel like this hit the nail on the proverbial head. That makes it all the more depressing :smith:


This thread has been very cathartic for me so, as I'm extremely sensitive to this subject. I would LIKE to keep it open, because I feel like there's plenty more that could be said but if any of you guys are tired of it let me know.

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jul 27, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

For a second there I thought that was from Stuff Black People Don't Like. google that yourself, i will not darken this thread's proverbial door mentioning paul kersey (not the character, but the creator of the site... yeah..)

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Wanderer posted:

Sure.

http://www.amren.com/news/2015/07/what-is-a-cuckservative/

I hesitate to call someone crazy because of ideological differences, but I have a hard time coming up with a better word.

ever come across something so bizarre reading other commenters followers?

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
anime avatar

i

:stare:


EDIT:

Anyway, what's always astonished me about the "Alternative" Right is cognitive dissonance that a majority of them seem to share. For example this individual.

http://angrywhitedude.com/2013/01/on-race-realism-and-white-supremacism/

quote:


... That is to say, being a “white supremacist” is worse than being a mere “racist” (a term that patriots are finally learning to just laugh at and not try to defend themselves against), for it indicates the pinnacle of racist thought: Nazism!. I.e., being labeled a “white supremacist” is synonymous with being labeled a “Neo-Nazi”, which is the equivalent of saying that a “race realist” invariably thinks that [Northern European] whites are the master race and therefore every other race must be killed in the most horrific fashion possible.


... For, to them, to be a “race realist” is to be a “white supremacist.” Never mind that such “race realists” recognize that East Asians have a higher average IQ than whites (on the whole). Never mind that Ashkenazi Jews—the traditional arch enemy of real “white supremacists”—are recognized as the cream of the crop, IQ-wise. Never mind that no race realist ever advocates prejudice against any individual based upon his race or ethnicity, both out of ethical/moral concerns and out of respect for the elementary rules of statistics. Never mind all these facts (and others), because to a liberal, any contradiction of Political Correct orthodoxy is to be treated as the cardinal sin against the Holy Politically Correct Church of the Liberal Establishment.


He seems to be against being called Nazi or even remotely related to Fascism

and then i come across this

http://angrywhitedude.com/2014/07/preemptive-abortion/

quote:

Way back when, I did a little series called “Putting the Toothpaste Back in the Tube“, with a controversial post on contra-dysgenics. The idea (and no, it’s certainly not a novel nor untested idea) was to implement sterilization of convicted felons (and maybe even welfare recipients). I called this “contra-dysgenics” in an effort to do two things: one, emphasize that it’s designed to combat active dysgenic policies of our current government, and, two, to given some distance from the word “eugenics”, which conjures up all sorts of Nazi analogies.

I still would advocate the idea that we should be looking to do something to stem the tide of rampantly reproducing ne’er-do-wells, and given that I find abortion (after anything more than a few weeks) to be morally reprehensible, sterilization seems much more humane. And if we can take away a criminal’s rights and lock them away, why can’t we also take away their reproductive rights?

But anyway, the only thing I’d change now would be the term used to describe the practice. It’s not “contra-dysgenics”, it’s not “sterilization”, and it’s certainly not “eugenics.” What is it, then? Why, it’s preemptive abortion!

Libtards love to euphemize their nefarious agendas—to use agreeable language to describe something which the masses would find inherently disagreeable (see, e.g., “women’s health“). Why not join in on the fun? I mean, libtards absolutely love them some abortion. It’s drat near literally a sacrament for them! So if we take the position that we’re performing abortions, just preemptively, on all these cisgendered-privileged cretins, surely the libtards couldn’t object, right?

Read more at http://angrywhitedude.com/2014/07/preemptive-abortion/


How does he not see that forced birth control is an inherently Fascist concept?

Or am i wrong? Please correct me if so.


http://angrywhitedude.com/2012/05/putting-the-toothpaste-back-in-the-tube-chapter-9-contra-dysgenics/

quote:

Yes, Hitler ruined the brand. Get over it. The fact is we’ve been on a dysgenic trend for some time (over a hundred years? Hundreds of years?), and, as we all know, that’s taken a precipitous turn for the worse since the start of our immigration nightmare in 1965—so it’s high time we revive the lost-art of culling the herd.

(For anyone not sure about claims of “dysgenics” in the Western World, I invite you to watch the movie “Idiocracy” by Mike Judge [of Beavis and Butthead fame] and join the legions of fans who can’t help but say, “It’s scary because it’s absolutely happening right now.”)

But how would one go about implementing a modern-era eugenics movement humanely and in accordance with Constitutional guarantees to our unalienable rights?

Sanger’s brainchild, Planned Parenthood, via their abortion mills, has done a gangbusters job of keeping the population of undesirables much further down than it might otherwise be. However—and call me crazy—I find advocating to the indigent and irresponsible that they simply kill their offspring rather than step up to the plate and take ownership of their—and their unborn children’s—lives rather…how shall one say…off-putting?

So instead of pushing for a society that embraces such perverse “morality”—a sort of “destroying the village in order to save it” approach to our demographic-induced civilizational disaster—certainly there are other means to achieve the same end that are a bit more ethical, no?

Here’s an old idea whose time, I believe, has once again come: Forced sterilization of convicted felons. I.e., get them out of the gene pool.

The irony is that this approach would be both anathema to libtards and also the only conceivably effective means (beyond outright genetic re-engineering) of achieving what they all claim to be in favor of: genuine racial equality [of outcomes].

Imagine: Such sterilization practices would have a wildly “disparate impact” upon blacks and Hispanics (by virtue of their committing an overwhelming proportion of violent [and property] crimes in the US [and everywhere else, for that matter]). By removing those who commit such crimes from the gene pool, you leave the “quality”—and there are obviously blacks and Hispanics of exceeding quality—to fill the vacuum left in the racial population. Within only a few generations, the racial animosity most of us here feel due to the disproportionate amount of violence and social pathology inflicted on us by blacks would likely dissipate given that the only blacks left to reproduce would be those capable of comporting themselves with the demands of civil society.

Sterilization for welfare recipients is also bandied about and should be part of a wider discussion as well.

The point is, we’re not talking so much about “eugenics” as we are trying to find ways to reverse decades of radical dysgenics. And the time is nigh.

“But RedStater,” I can hear the moaning commence, “Certainly this is all a pipe dream! This will never fly!”

Improbable, perhaps. Impossible? I don’t know the word. A few years back I received a standard, dim-witted forwarded email (replete with the gratuitous out-of-control font sizes and coloring) demanding a completely common-sense modification to our welfare policies: mandatory drug testing for anyone receiving any sort of taxpayer-funded living assistance. I thought, “Makes perfect sense—which is why it will never happen.” And just a few short years later, laws requiring drug tests for welfare recipients were on their way to the books in a number of states.

In other words, though the blue states may be a lost cause, the red states still have sufficient numbers in the voting public capable of recognizing a pragmatic solution to impending doom when they see it. If we have the chops to discuss what needs to be discussed and advocate what needs to be advocated, who knows how “improbable” it will appear over time.

But starting a fire is tedious and dispiriting work; it’s much easier to piss on the embers and claim the darkness inevitable.

We can take the latter route. It’s perfectly understandable. We’re all tired of fighting this seemingly hopeless and endless and perpetually uphill battle. But I’d have a hard time calling myself an American if that’s the path I decide to take.

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Aug 3, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Guavanaut posted:

The NRx Overton window:


e: Also :lol: at the fact that they don't have anything left of the SPLC. :ussr::anarchists:

its nothing short of amazing to me how SBPDL manages to slip by undetected of even the most far right NRx's

That dude is probably the furthest NRx you'll find (yeah i know i broke my "promise" of mentioning him, but gently caress it :v:)

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Aug 19, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Merdifex posted:

Aside from this supposed butthole, which I thankfully didn't see, I'm looking forward to him proving that he isn't racist. http://magic-masochist.tumblr.com/tagged/racist

plz make a :nws: tag for that link yea thx

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Merdifex posted:

Aside from this supposed butthole, which I thankfully didn't see, I'm looking forward to him proving that he isn't racist. :nws:http://magic-masochist.tumblr.com/tagged/racist



i loving love /pol/'s whole "being sarcastic and :smug: at the same time" shtick


seems like tumblr is finally being overran by edgebros

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 09:15 on Dec 16, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Guavanaut posted:

but sometimes ironic racism can work.

any examples please?

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycLMPS5MPX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DW6P5yCGpKQ

ramzpaul is one of the best :v:

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
/pol/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJYVtPLDY80


edit: :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46kPhDAKEnY

editx2: OOHHH. Turns out this is TheRightStuff guy

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Dec 29, 2015

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
Trending in Atlanta Twitter (of all places...)

#FactsArentRacist

edit: this account is adorable

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jan 3, 2016

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
http://www.somethingawful.com/news/black-teens-knockout/

i just want to say I've LITERALLY come across blogs that were written just like this article

unironically

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
https://twitter.com/Thug_Violence

PoesLaw.jpg

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Cingulate posted:

I'm not saying I could do much better, but the current attempts ITT to "understand the psychology of HBD etc" are bad. Or rather, they're not really attempts to do that in the first place. For that, one would have to either try and see it from the inside - gah! - show some empathy with them; or look at some actual sociological data. Numbers may become involved even.

And there's plenty of actual science and numbers around on viewing various right wing groups as pathological, because of course, science is liberal and social scientists are particularly liberal and write books about how voting sexism is literally insanity all the time.

ok, I'll bite: Empathy how, exactly? Would you mean in terms of "Imagining being white while walking downtown in the middle of the night"? Please post an example of sociological data you deem valid for this thread.

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Cingulate posted:

In the sense of


I must ask, how is this any different from what I just said?


BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Jan 10, 2016

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Cingulate posted:

Was that seriously your best attempt at an insight view into "HBD" etc people?

Because if yes, you're really loving terrible at empathy. (Or at least with empathy with racists on the internet I guess.)

I can only go by what I see online, and for the most part it seems to me a great majority of them fear what I just said (usually they fear their children in that particular situation), their jobs being "stolen" from certain types of individuals who didn't "work hard enough", and the country descending into chaos and disarray (which some of them believe has already occurred)

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012

Woolie Wool posted:

Is there a word filter for that word now? That's awesome.

Filter for what word?

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
Cingulate seems like the type of guy who posts in the hell-thread regularly and thinks he's the smartest guy in the room

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
hahahahaha

https://twitter.com/pinchicagoo

this HAS to be a troll account

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
check this edgelord right here

https://twitter.com/TheeCurrentYear/status/708755396354244609

BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
WELP GUYS I'VE FINALLY GOT FAMOUS

http://somethingsensitive.com/index.php?topic=2101.msg237752#msg237752

Put lead in Kyankas head posted:

Alright I think this thread is fun: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3728924]

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion: The Problem Attic > Understanding the psychology of HBD/Racial Realism/Dark Enlightenment. The OP's name? "Race Realists"

Anyway, it's a thread for goons to QQ at old white people for being racist and write huge paragraphs about how people took up "race realism" to make up for their shortcomings at life, or something like that. Also goonrage at Reddit and Gamergate :rolleyes: because this is D&D after all.

I'm telling everyone! :-)

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

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BornAPoorBlkChild
Sep 24, 2012
Questions Skeptics Have For The Alt Right

does this count as necro-posting? Let me know to close the thread

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