- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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I don't know how long this thread will last or whether it will turn into a cesspool but while it is here I figure I will post a question I've wanted to ask for awhile in the Middle East thread but did not want to start a derail.
Is there a book or a series of articles or even a well-regarded webpage which collects the various theologic arguments made by suicide bombers, salafist groups, etc. and examines them in light of Islamic jurisprudence, textual support, etc.? One of the thing which might help frame this discussion is if someone has already objectively looked at the various published motivations and examined how they fit with what is found in the Qur'an, the hadith, or the more commonly accepted schools. For instance, if a verse is taken out of context it might look like it supports an action but if all of the schools interpret it differently it might help put the passage in a more nuanced light.
There might be (probably not as much in English since most English analysis of Jihadi material is written by non-Muslims), but while this is interesting in some ways, I also think you have to take a step back and ask if it even matters. Religion evolves and changes and can't simply be defined by what's in a book, even though that's what most adherents will tell you. There's plenty of violent, awful stuff in the Qur'an, just as there is in other religious texts. More important is how it's interpreted, and most "manistream" Muslims will downplay the violence, etc because it's not important to their understanding of Islam.
I think this is an interesting article. He's responding to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who's terrible, but he makes some important points.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2015-06-16/islamic-scripture-not-problem?campaign=mccants&CID=EMC-FARelease-mccants-061615
quote:
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is correct that darker passages of Islamic Scripture endorse violence and prescribe harsh punishments for moral or theological infractions. And she is right that in many Muslim countries, too many citizens still think it is a good idea to kill people for apostasy, stone them for adultery, and beat women for disobedience just because Scripture says so. But Hirsi Ali is profoundly wrong when she argues that Islamic Scripture causes Muslim terrorism and thus that the U.S. government should fund Muslim dissidents to reform Islam.
Islamic Scripture is a constant. Over 1,000 years old, it is composed of the Koran and hadith, words and deeds attributed to the Prophet Muhammad by his followers. Muslims who want to justify violence can find plenty of passages to cite—collections of hadith run into the hundreds of volumes. Nevertheless, Muslim political behavior has varied greatly throughout history. Some Muslims have cited Scripture to justify violence, and some have cited it to justify peace. If Scripture is a constant but the behavior of its followers is not, then one should look elsewhere to explain why some Muslims engage in terrorism. And if Islamic Scripture doesn’t automatically lead to terrorism, then one should not expect the reform of Islam to end terrorism. Indeed, even the ultratextualist followers of the self-proclaimed Islamic State ignore Scripture that is inconvenient for their brutal brand of insurgency.
Consider the Gospels, Scriptures that advocate far less violence than the Koran or the Hebrew Bible. Jesus taught his followers to turn the other cheek. Yet the crusaders murdered thousands in their rampage across the Middle East, and U.S. President George W. Bush, a devout Christian, invaded Iraq without military provocation. Readers may object to these examples, arguing that other factors were at play—but that is exactly the point: Christian Scripture doesn’t always determine the behavior of its followers, and the same goes for Islamic Scripture.
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Jul 5, 2015 02:22
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May 22, 2024 07:44
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Fanatics always attract more fighters than moderates.
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Jul 5, 2015 16:34
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- Xandu
- Feb 19, 2006
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It's hard to be humble when you're as great as I am.
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Hey thread, two quick questions.
1) Can you point me to a source on the "3% of Muslims support Daesh" thing? I was expecting it to be REALLY low, but not THAT low.
2) Can anyone help me enummerate the number of countries where female citizens are FORCED to wear skin-covering attire? I know there are places where it's either a preferrence or the equivalent of being a weeaboo, but towards Muslim Arab attire.
Thanks!
Ignore the 3%, it's not really based on anything accurate, but I'd be surprised if it were that much higher.
Iran, Saudi, Afghanistan (not legally anymore, but basically).
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Jul 6, 2015 12:01
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Jul 5, 2015 02:22
