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NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Well I'm glad I fund this Had no idea this was going on.

Coming off my FFIX hard mod run which is the first time I've completed FFIX in almost a decade, I can say I never found any steals too hard. There wee two, maybe three, that were problematic but overall I thought it added an extra element of challenge to boss fights. Before this, when I saw some LPs on YouTube, and saw people edit out their taking time to steal everything, I thought it seemed really stupid and almost insulting. Like they were saying "yeah, these bosses are nothing so I'm just gonna waste minutes on end stealing because the boss won't ever stand a chance anyway.""" That might be true in the vanilla game but the aforementioned mid-disk 2 boss, as well as an early Disk 3 boss that gave me the beloved Holy Lance, were actually really fun to steal from because the game was staying alive while Zidane keeps failing and then when you succeed you just feel a rush of elation. The rewards are almost always very nice. I was actually a bit sad when I got to the final dungeon and no boss had anything worth stealing except one or two and even then I could have Synth'ed that stuff had I felt like it.

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NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



It's called Final Fantasy IX Unleashed. I won't link to it because it obviously contains spoilers where the modder listed all the changes but you can find it easily with Google.
Notable alterations would be:
Weapons and armor no longer increase stats. All they do is improve Attack and Defense
What Abilities weapons/armor teach has largely been switched around. I think Auto-Protect and Auto-Shell were removed from the game entirely.
MP costs have been increased or reduced. Protect and Shell now only work on the entire party and can't be cast at a single target.
Characters get entirely new abilities, with the"Warriors" having "Armor" abilities that cast Protect or Shell on the whole party for free. Zidane loses his best move but in exchange he can learn several of his Dyne abilities as just regular Skills. It substantially increases his worth as a damage dealer.
Some bosses have entirely new movesets
Quina has new Blue Magic
A certain random encounter is no longer Level 60 so you can't gain crazy EXP on Disk 1.
As far as I could tell, he didn't alter enemy HP or anything really. They all seem to have as much health as in the original
They fixed some bugs, like a certain attack.

Overall it was a much more "balanced" mod than the FFVIII one I played and I think people here might like it. Then again, FFVIII was a heinous mess of broken mechanics while FFIX was just kind of boring. "Fixing" FFIX is a much less ambitious task than fixing FFVIII.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Aug 19, 2015

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Hey man, you're preaching to the choir here. I'd love a mod for FF2. I like the game but it is a horrible mess. It's just a horrible mess of really cool ideas I wish someone online could fix. There's also a billion-and-one mods for FFVII while I found about...two for VIII. VIII needs help a lot more than VII.

The answer is simple, though. People mod games they actually like. So, yeah, FFII and FFVIII are broken to high hell but no one gives enough of a poo poo to help them.

I suppose a better term for FFIX Unleashed is "rebalance."

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



That's why there is a speed-up button on the emulator. Honestly, people who say FFXII needed that speedup button never played IX. I think I enjoyed IX's gameplay more this time around not only because of the increased difficulty but also because I could fast forward through the unbearably long animations and camera pans and travel.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



That's obviously a very subjective view. You could say that exact same thing about a lot of games. If you don't care about the story, then you don't care, and no amount of pretty environments will fix that. Look at all the bitching about Chrono Cross.

Me personally, I like both FFIX and FFXII and their stories and gameplay.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I got the item without too much trouble in spite of having to fight the boss numerous times. He's actually pretty hard in the mod I played. Granted, I was an idiot and didn't fully understand ATB mechanics. Gotta keep a window open so as to avoid your Auto-Float wearing off.

I actually had a harder time with a couple steals near the end of Disk 3. One I just had to give up on because the mod makes the boss impossible if you take too long.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



SorataYuy posted:

For that matter, except for Brave Fencer Musashi and Grandia II, have there ever been any RPGs where the legends and myths turned out to be wrong? Like completely, utterly, got everything completely the opposite of what the truth actually was, and it was mostly just made up because... well, just because.

Xenogears did that.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Hate-able yet interesting villains can be hard to do simply because revealing stuff about backstory or motivations can often soften the blow of their evil.

Luckily, Miang from Xenogears doesn't have that problem. She was the best.

Kuja used to be my favorite RPG villain until Xenogears.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Zagglezig posted:

I don't remember if there was ever an explanation for the sapient black mages, but now I wonder if it's got something to do with the mist, since we saw them being made from it, just like we're told monsters come from it. We've run into friendly mist monsters, so clearly the mist doesn't always make them bloodthirsty. I wonder if these guys are a product of that X out of however many mist beings.

Life....finds a way.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Fister Roboto posted:

Nope. Fortunately it's an easy fix on the PS version with a gameshark, so hopefully the small FF9 modding community will do something about it.

I've played two mods of FFIX (or hacks I guess you'd call them since they were on the PS version) and they both fixed Thunder Slash. Also fixed Fairy Flute Steal %. With Hades Workshop I would hope the good modding community can do a lot more.

Of course, HW also allows more...erm, to be polite "amateurish" modders to screw with things. I tried playing a third mod amde with this tool and it was a bit lame compared to the other two. It did actually make Vivi interesting though in that it changed Focus. Vivi is the most boring (if effective) character in the game.

Every Boss Fight With Vivi:
Zidane: Keep Stealing
Everyone Else: Keep Defending or Healing
Vivi: Focus
After everything has been stolen, Vivi destroys boss all on his own. The stupid troll boss with the Fairy Flute does in about 4 or 5 turns of Focus'ed Bio but of course I can't just win in two minutes, I have to prolong the fight to steal everything because that is the real challenge.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I love status effect attacks in this game for bosses. Sure it might screw you over first time but in the rematch, equip the appropriate status effect guarding ability and suddenly the boss starts to waste their turns a lot and gives you ample time to heal or whatever.

It makes this and a certain much later fight a lot easier in the difficulty hacks I've played.


Rigged Death Trap posted:

the 'Earth as a Living Being' was an idea very close to the SE writers' hearts at this time.
So much so that they reused it for ff7, ff9 and Spirits Within. I also think some spinoffs had this as well.

The Farplane ends up like this in X-2. In X, it was just a standard afterlife so far as I could tell but in the sequel it's a source of life energy at the center of the planet and is being tapped by Shinra.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Aug 15, 2016

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



sorry double post

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I liked his theme music. It's not as good as Freya's but Freya has the best theme of any of the party members.

He's the dark loner of this game, like Shadow from VI, Vincent from VII and...uh....I guess Squall is that in VIII? Yuck. Anyway, he's rather less involved in the plot than those others (as far as I know - I never beat VI so dunno if Shadow is really important or not) but he has his moments. I used him for when I played Final Fantasy IX Unleashed and I gained a new appreciation for both his character and his abilities.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



It's time for the final showdown with Kuja where we beat him up enough and discover he was being mind-controlled by an evil sorcerer from the future moon.

Jay Rust posted:

People complain about Vaan though

And then there's also Snow, the nicest and most altruistic guy in all of XIII yet also the most hated.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



EponymousMrYar posted:

Another contrast. Snow might be nice and altruistic but it comes off as hollow and naive. Mainly because he doesn't seem to actually care about who he's helping/leading. 'Forgetting' about Hope's Mom after watching her plummet to her death is pretty callous no matter how you cut it.


Meanwhile Zidane earnestly cares for the party. Partially shown by his more supportive role to the party (he does keep the party moving but most of his decisions are 'hey do whatever you want to do, and then LETS DO IT') and also shown that he has regrets for people who have suffered from his actions/decisions. Mainly Blank in this case, since it's a pretty direct parallel to Hope's Mom.

Snow's better in the sequels anyway where he's still Snow but he's mellowed the heck out.

You did put it in quotes so I hope you realize he didn't actually ever forget about her, he just kinda had a lot of other poo poo on his plate after that.

And less "mellowed out" and more suicidally depressed in the third game.

XIII-2 Snow is great, though. He saves the world on his time traveling motorcycle with his girlfriend.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I'm afraid my favorite FF Princess is Ashe. Dagger doesn't quite measure up to her in my opinion. But that's not a slight against Garnet since Ashe is possibly my favorite FF main character.

EponymousMrYar posted:

FFIX has excellent character development in general. While Amarant is kind of a let down as noted by Mega64 since he joins at an awkward time and is generally overshadowed (which may have been intentional in a 'look how silly and petty this dude is when there's some seriously big stuff going on RIGHT OVER THERE) the supporting cast is great and the world in general has a lot of neat details to it.

I generally don't like when party members join so late but, really, Amarant only joined a couple hours after Eiko so any criticism of him can be directed at her.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I know this seems like a minor thing but, well, it does play into a problem with the character I think.

Beatrix. When you first meet and fight her, this is her theme. Mega went for the "Mystery Sword" title, which is indeed the first title I ever heard for the song.

However, YouTube has it called "Sword of Doubt" and FF Wiki calls it "The Wavering Blade." If anyone knows Japanese, this is apparently the original name: 迷いの剣, Mayoi no Tsurugi

Now, I have seen many FFIX songs with many different translated titles. Indeed, it can be irritating. But something like "Loss of Me" being Rose of May (Beatrix's other theme, the piano one) is less of a problem because they both work.

However, with the first song, the title seems to clearly be suggesting Beatrix is uneasy about what she's doing; that she is hesitating in her duty to her queen. We see only a hint of this later on and it only really arises when Garnet is to be executed.

The fact is, Beatrix led two invasions that resulted in genocide and showed absolutely no remorse for any of it, in spite of what the song would have us believe. She's forgiven a bit too quickly, in my view. I often see her likened to this General Leo guy but even though I never made it far into VI, it always looked to me like Leo was kept in the dark as to just how depraved his Emperor was. Beatrix knew full well the mind of her own power-mad monarch.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Aug 20, 2016

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



morallyobjected posted:

she really didn't, though. or at least we have no real reason to believe she was privy to all the plans. the black mages have done most of the killing, and as far as Beatrix knew they were only invading and occupying (see: post Cleyra). she was as surprised as everyone else with what Brahne did.

Beatrix's only known actions are dealing with the party and commanding the human forces. plus, she shows remorse in Alexandria after the party gets there for Dagger

quote:



My troops alone would've been more than enough to take Cleyra.



I didn't train all these years so I could take a backseat to anyone...



Is this it, Your Majesty?





...No. I need one more! I must get the last jewel!





The only thing wounded here is her ego. Conscience? What's that?

She wanted to be the one to kill and subjugate all those innocent people herself.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Mywhatacleanturtle posted:

That one scene and another, later on with Freya and Amarant convinced the entire internet of 2001 that they were meant to be shipped together. :(

It's not just that. I thought it was fairly interesting because I never noticed it before my last run of the game but I think Amarant talks more with Freya than anyone else in the party except maybe Zidane. They also hang out together at various points.

If Amarant can be said to have any connection to the party or rapport with any of the party members, it be with Freya.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



YggiDee posted:

It probably doesn't help that (from what I remember) Freya and Amarant are basically vestigial to the plot from here on out. Amarant gets, like, one more scene where he learns about ~teamwork~ and Freya's entire character arc was finished with "oh no my home is gone, on no my boyfriend has amnesia" and neither of them do anything of note ever again. All the other party members either have their own romance bs to deal with, or are too young, or are Quina, so the shippers latched on.

I should note, though, that I last played this when it was new, and I may have forgotten something substantial in the interim.

You haven't. But maybe it's just the fact I recently started using him in battle for the first time but I've come to like Amarant .Best Character Ever he is not but he's not terrible in my opinion and I like his and Freya's scenes. They are probably the oldest people there apart from Steiner and Quina and Quina doesn't count. Seems natural they'd gravitate to each other.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



ApplesandOranges posted:

Freya being the fourth oldest character in a cast of eight is not a huge thing given that she's 'only' 21. It'd be funnier to watch her try to interact with Eiko.

Actually, Freya doesn't really talk to anyone bar Zidane and Amarant (with brief moments with Vivi and Beatrix).

I do like the Freya-Amarant interactions, they're something I'm not sure many games do.

I always think Freya is older than she is... drat JRPGs.

It doesn't help that half the party ranges from young to super young so everyone else seems older by comparison. There's a bit more consistency in the other games I think. Well, in the other PS FF's, anyway.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



So this was probably mentioned or shown earlier (I am just catching up with the LP) but each character has their own little slide that will show up if you load the game but don't press a button and just let the title music play. Each slide has a quote and a word that is obviously meant to describe the character pictured.

I didn't see Amarant's posted. Anyway, his reads:


I don't understand it. "Arrogance" fits him just fine but how does that quote in any way reflect arrogance?

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



So while we do have a fair bit of game left, I'd like to ask people a question.

Would you consider this game "dark?" Dark is one of those words thrown around a lot to describe a narrative and what I mean by it is "an overall bleak tone having to deal with a lot of very depressing subjects."

Once upon a time I considered FFIX the darkest FF game because a lot of bad poo poo happens in it, a lot of people die and all that lovely stuff. These days, I recognize its heavy subject matter which focuses a lot on mortality and existential stuff. The mass deaths just kind of feed into that.

However, I also recognize the game is very....idealistic I'd say. Things may look grim but they always work out one way or another. I think, in the end, the tone of the game is one of optimism and cheeriness and thus not very dark at all.

I always compare it with FFX, which is another bright and colorful world but has much less of that optimism and cheer in it. Everyone is just kind of waiting to die and clinging to the thin hope Yuna can save them. It's not subtle at all but that isn't really a prerequisite for having a dark and gloomy atmosphere/story.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



I never finished VI but it was every bit as schizophrenic as VII from what I saw.

Take the Ghost Train segment. You have one of our heroes banging on the ghost table, demanding to be fed by ghost waiters. The whole section is rather goofy, in fact. (for all those train compartments we decoupled, does that mean those souls are damned and denied the afterlife forever?)

Then, after all this ridiculous poo poo, at the end, you see Cyan's wife and child get on-board the train bound for the afterlife. (His wife and child having been previously murdered by Kefka, of course) It's rather heartbreaking and emotional and Cyan was my favorite character.

But it sure as gently caress came out of nowhere. It was a swerve of tone every bit as jarring as anything in VII.

There were other examples too but I don't really enjo yVI so I never finished it nor do I remember much about it.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Jay Rust posted:

Still doesn't come close to FFVII, where you go from Aeris' death to snowboarding in about twenty minutes

Not even that. You can go into a house in Icicle, see Aerith's Saddest Home Videos, and then leave and go watch Elena roll down the mountain in a ball while a couple mooks run after her.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Zorn and Thorn showing up to try and join Garnet makes no sense and really bugs me. I have beaten this game several times and it just doesn't work any way you try to explain it.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



morallyobjected posted:

(Disc 3 spoilers): no, they join Kuja later; they haven't been working for him all along.

They are literally just some monster Kuja split into two humans for.._some reason.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Earnestly posted:

Honestly, the kingdom of Alexandria is indebted to Zidane (and the rest.) His contribution to the safety of Garnet should merit some nobility title, or at least knighthood. Maybe I don't know anything about fantasy medieval politics, but his social standing should be higher than what we see right now.

Game seems like it really wants to re-establish the status quo and feeling of normalcy. That includes Zidane being a nobody.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



....well...we did just learn Garnet actually is from Kenya/Madain Sari....So "where is the birth certificate" works here.

Who knows what kind of monarchy Alexandria has, anyway. I doubt the writers put much thought into it but monarchies are complicated. It isn't always just "there's a person with a crown at the top who directs everyone around." Is this some sort of absolute monarchy? There does not seem to be any sort of assembly or council. How long has the bloodline reigned and indeed how much authority is invested in that bloodline because Garnet has not a trace of it?

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



lezard_valeth posted:

Garnet is a protagonist in a FF game. I think there has never been a FF protagonist that at one point or other hasn't felt sorry for the villain, even if he burned a village of children or murdered your girlfriend right in front of you.

Cloud pretty decisively hates Sephiroth and never shows any real empathy for what drove Seph crazy. All that matters is that Sephiroth did murder that village of children and killed his (sort of) girlfriend and so Cloud never forgave him for it.

The FFX party's feelings on Seymour are...well, they might have felt sorry for Lil' Seymour. They never discuss it.

NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Aug 30, 2016

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Tashilicious posted:

That's where it started, I never got the "raging hatred" by the end of it. Maybe I'm just reading too much of my own subtext into it, but once the revelation was in that Jenova was the one driving much of the plot up partway through Disk 2, Sephiroth became... Less of a thing.

Well, now I think more on it, you're right. Cloud does seem to mellow out on his Sephiroth murder boner. I don't know how much it has to do with Jenova though. I think it's more that "Cloud" in Disk 1 wasn't necessarily the real Cloud in a lot of ways.What's more , once he gets his head on straight, Cloud realized the "hatred" he bore for Sephiroth was all part of Sephiroth's plan to make sure Cloud kept following him.

By the end, Cloud is pretty zen and realizes Sephiroth has to be stopped and is doing itfor that reason, as opposd to a lust for revenge. His final quote to Sephiroth is even sort of a toast.
"And Sephiroth! To the settling of everything!!" (I've always liked this line. Sure it sounds weird but I still like it)

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Tashilicious posted:

Basically. Also, while it may sound a little strange, I think it's because it's a more archaic mode of speech than what the generally good vernacular translation off FFVII had going for it. In IX it wouldn't feel out of place, because a lot of the script has these sort of older trappings to them (while still maintaining a generally good vernacular. poo poo I cannot say enough about how amazing the writing and localization for FFIX is loving amazing).

FFVII is in a battle to the death with IX for my favourite FF, mostly because so much of the story and motivation has to be done through subtext (and not entirely because of the bad translation job). It is a game about broken people, and I feel like it delivers spectacularly with how they are presented. Outside of Cloud, we never get inner thoughts of their motivations, and when they speak of them openly it can never be taken at face value because of how drat broken the character is. Everyone is unreliable when speaking of themselves or others, and the only truth that can be found is in deeds and subtext. It is amazing so much of it got through despite the poo poo script we were given.

IX, on the other hand, being so enamoured with plays, does not have as much subtext going on. Everything is plain text, everything is played honest and open. If someone claims something as their motivation, they are speaking truth. We do not have the psychodrama-thiller, we just have the melodrama passion play. Both of them work very well in to tell their story. And IX is a much simpler story, with much simpler characters, than VII. It is honestly mindblowing that these two extremes come from, broadly, the same teams.


As for VIII; I think the biggest issue I still have with VIII is that they give us reams of internal monologue for Squall. I will only play it through again if I can find, or make, a mod that removes ever. Singular. Instant. Of Squalls inner voice. I think the game would be immeasurably better if we had to deal with Squall like everyone else does; only based on what he speaks and does.


i cant stop talking about jrpgs help :ohdear:


Have you ever played or heard of a game called Xenogears? You might like it. It has a lot in common with FFVII seeing as Xenogears was originally going to be FFVII.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Bufuman posted:

Apparently that Jump Rope King title isn't just for show.

Except that he immediately fell on his face there but the gif cut it off.

How the hell does Vivi of all people have the coordination to do Jump Rope?

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Hobgoblin2099 posted:

No wonder Brahne sent Black Mages to attack Burmecia. She didn't want her soldiers to catch an illness in the rain due to their lack of clothing.

And you just know it was pretty unpleasant for them in Cleyra. I'm reminded of how people criticize Vaan's lack of a shirt because he lives in a goddam desert.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Hobgoblin2099 posted:

It's caused by Mist.

I never knew this. That's intriguing.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



See, Zidane is a good person which is why he framed an innocent man and forced him to leave his job and home.

You don't need a reason to screw people over.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:

The Great Crystal is an absolutely huge chunk, though if it's magicite or nethicite is unclear since funky poo poo happens in a magick rock the size of a city regardless.

It's Nethicite. Giruvegan is the seat of the Occuria's power and Deifacted Nethicite is their proud creation and weapon.

Also Fran and I think Ashe have a minor conversation about how, with all the Nethicite there, you could blow up the world.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



What I always found interesting about the Occuria is how they have resigned themselves to roles as manipulators. When the Cryst is destroyed, they kinda just leave things be instead of taking direct action. If you have read the backstory about the Espers, you know the Occuria weren't always so hands-off. They made all of the Espers and then in turn waged a direct war on them when said Espers rebelled. Not to mention they built things like Giruvegan and the Pharos. If they wanted, they could do a lot more than they do.

But they choose not to. That's very intriguing to me and it's never explained and I like it that way.

Nevertheless, while the Occuria aren't murder-hapy tyrants, they're very full of themselves as you can see if you read the pillars in th ePharos. I guess being immortal gods with the power to destroy the world at your whim will give you a bit of an ego.

NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



ReturnOfFable posted:

Holy crap, this is really good. I can't believe this wasn't included in the Final Fantasy 9 album they put out.

It was the product of a lady formerly known as katethegreat but later as Erutan.
http://www.erutanmusic.com/

She probably sold it on her own albums. I had no idea it was even from OCRemix, I first heard it on YouTube years and years ago.
Some more of her work.

She was crazy popular among the FF fans I know back when her stuff first came out many years ago.

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NikkolasKing
Apr 3, 2010



Glazius posted:

I'm not sure why Kuja's supposedly deviating from your plan, Garland. Pretty sure that without Alexander, Alexandria is goddamn toast.

I mean, unless you actually handed him a "Destroy The World" script. Which... no, no, you totally look like the kind of guy who has a "Destroy The World" script.

Did you miss the part where Kuja was freaking out when he realized Garland was there? It was the first time all game Kuja lost control.

Also consider what Kuja said when he was monologuing to himself back at the end of Disk 2:

Mega64 posted:



Such is the way of the strong. And it is the providence of nature that only the strong survive.


He's been plotting to betray Garland for years now. Shame he seems to have underestimated the power of the big eyeball in the sky. Odd considering he himself was apparently using it up until now. Maybe Garland can make better use of it.

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