An Institutional theory of the Bourgeois

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > An Institutional theory of the Bourgeois

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

People in the non-bourgeois can also interact with the institutions of their culture. People in the bourgeoisie often have a lack of faith in those institutions.

So, no.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2015 18:59

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 04:06

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

glowing-fish posted:

People in the non-bourgeois often have to walk very carefully when dealing with the institutions of their culture, while the bourgeois take interacting with those institutions for granted!

Voting and registering to vote are great examples. A bourgeois person can walk into a voting place, and expect to be treated with respect and professionalism. Even if they have to show ID to vote, it will probably be a courteous request. A non-bourgeois person trying to vote might have to walk on eggshells, and have subtle, and not-so-subtle hints that they are disturbing the people there.

Yeah, this isn't right. Go to a 'voting place' in harlem, and you'll see the local residents being treated with respect.

How much actual, y'know, research have you done by going into non-bourgeois communities and actually looking at this stuff?

# ¿ Jul 11, 2015 19:13

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

glowing-fish posted:

Well, I can't claim to have visited every single area of the United States. I am fairly well-travelled within the United States, but if you want to bring up examples from places I haven't been, or situations I haven't been in, I am sure you can find some.

Yeah, like I said, go to any polling place in Harlem, and you'll find the people there being treated well, which makes sense, since they're run by people in the community.

Why would you think otherwise?

Obdicut fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 11, 2015

# ¿ Jul 11, 2015 19:46

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

glowing-fish posted:

I am a little surprised at how much rancor it seemed to have caused. I probably shouldn't have used the "B" word, which seems to be controversial in a way that saying "Middle Class" isn't. But all this really is, is an extension of the idea of cultural capital. I think the idea of cultural capital, that some people have cultural knowledge that they can use to accomplish things, is pretty non-controversial. My point is that this cultural capital isn't something that people use to obtain physical goods: its not like people master the complex systems of a culture so they can afford to buy nicer bathroom towels. Cultural capital is used to buy cultural goods. Sometimes physical goods are used as a marker for that, but its not the real point.

Part of your problem is your ignorance of how this operates. Polling stations, for example, are mostly staffed by local residents, who are genuinely interested in helping their community to vote. Non-bourgeois people do not have a problem voting; they might have a problem voting in Palm Beach.

To put it another way, you said a lot of true things about cultural capital, but nothing really new, you messed up some of it, and it doesn't amount to anything new.

You also seem deeply confused about Marx.

# ¿ Jul 13, 2015 18:34

Obdicut: May 15, 2012; "What election?"

glowing-fish posted:

I don't think I was "Making sweeping claims about the nature of everything".

Taking away the continental language, most of what I talked about is just based on my own experience of how people's backgrounds in early life affects how comfortable they are navigating through society. There are a number of number of concrete situations where this background is incredibly important. Say someone has a loud neighbor: do they know how to call the police and make a noise complaint? Or are they so afraid of involving the police that they will confront their neighbor directly? Say someone wants to go to Canada, do they feel confident going through that border crossing and answering the questions, even if they are temporarily unemployed? Someone is renting an apartment, and is unclear what type of responsibilities their landlord has for repairs. Would they feel comfortable going to a local library and asking the library staff for information on renter's rights?

There is so many examples of all this little stuff, and the problem is, for those who know how to do it and are comfortable with it, its so "obvious" that it seems invisible. For those who don't have it as a background, its constant and bewildering.

(If I want to put a philosophical name to this, this is Lyotard's concept of "The Differend", where the language of a group that has some type of hegemony is "the only" language, and other people have to deal with the hegemonic language on its own terms. Only here, it isn't just language, but habits and expectations).

Most members of the 'bourgeoisie' have zero knowledge of the above, too. Calling the police is also something that's done routinely and without qualms in non-bourgeoisie neighborhoods.

Please learn facts, it helps make better theory.

# ¿ Jul 15, 2015 19:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > An Institutional theory of the Bourgeois