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Bloody Mayhem posted:What is this anthem in schools poo poo? I have never sung the anthem anywhere but a professional hockey game. After a google search, it looks the anthem singing is just a quirk of one of (?) Toronto's school boards. http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/school-board-makes-singing-o-canada-mandatory Why does Toronto have multiple school boards? Why is the Catholic school board also publically funded when it seems to exist solely to be more conservative? What a weird city.
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Jul 21, 2015 07:36
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Ontario and a few other provinces have a public Catholic school system as a remnant of when Irish and French catholics were a hated and persecuted minority. They were given the right to set up their own separate schools to maintain their culture and protect them at the time so that Ireland-level poo poo wouldn't happen. This was in 1863 and just hasn't been changed. It's super interesting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_school
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Jul 21, 2015 11:49
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kissekatt posted:OP, have you considered that it might be you who is the problem? That said, I am also upset I can't get a particular drink here either.
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Jul 21, 2015 13:09
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Scudworth posted:Ontario and a few other provinces have a public Catholic school system as a remnant of when Irish and French catholics were a hated and persecuted minority. They were given the right to set up their own separate schools to maintain their culture and protect them at the time so that Ireland-level poo poo wouldn't happen. This was in 1863 and just hasn't been changed. Nowadays, French and Catholic schools are seen as preferable to public ones because those schools tend to be wealthier with higher staff to pupil ratios, so they're just better places to be overall. If you're both franco and eligible to send your kid to a Catholic board, your kid's going to have a pretty good edge over us public plebes. It's not like they're graduating hordes of moon-eyed holy rollers; my wife insists her Catholic schooling was the cornerstone of her atheism and her best friend from those days is Jain. The only time anyone gets worked up about the faith is when one of their teachers comes out or gets pregnant out of wedlock. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 14:46
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I nominate this thread for Canadian propagandizing and Nucksplaining to bloody colonials. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrA4V6YF6SA
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Jul 21, 2015 15:52
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Why does Toronto have multiple school boards? Why is the Catholic school board also publically funded when it seems to exist solely to be more conservative? What a weird city. One of the main impetuses for confederation was the united Ontario/Quebec legislature couldn't get poo poo done because each side had exactly equal seats but the two provinces were secular protestant and ultramontanist catholic respectively. Instituting a federal system let a bunch of the stuff that the two couldn't agree on - in this case education - be instituted separately. The catholic school system was a guarantee that french catholics in Ontario would not be forced into the secular protestant school system. Which was significant not just for general rights reasons but Ontario had a big problem with the orange order for a long time and Toronto was even snidely named 'Toronto the Good' for its overbearing protestant morality.
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Jul 21, 2015 17:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhyRStv1KZk
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Jul 21, 2015 20:43
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Thevalencian posted:The problem with Toronto is that the city planners never forecasted the city growing over a million: A vertical highway?
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Jul 21, 2015 23:37
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Toronto's famous space elevator.
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Jul 22, 2015 00:28
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Asiina posted:Toronto's famous space elevator. Who said up?
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Jul 22, 2015 02:50
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Bip Roberts posted:Who said up? That's what vertical means. I mean, it's obvious he was talking about "north-south" and "east-west" when he was talking vertical and horizontal, but let's not let that stop us from being a bunch of annoying pedants!
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Jul 22, 2015 03:55
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PT6A posted:That's what vertical means. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEPmA3USJdI
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Jul 22, 2015 04:30
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I dunno, I spent the majority of a couple years in various large central Canadian cities(Winnipeg, Saskatoon, Calgary, Edmonton, Regina) as well of some smaller ones(Red Deer, Grand Prairie, Fort Mac, Lethbridge, Cranbrook) on business and didn't really notice much antipathy toward US citizens. Many people I met weren't really enthused about the influx of Central Asian and Sikh immigrants, but no more so than the majority of Americans. I've only been to Toronto once, for a very short time, so I don't have any point of comparison between Eastern and Central/Western Canada. What I did notice, since I travelled by car and truck, is the difference between small US towns and small Canadian towns - the people that lived in the more rural areas of Canada seemed much happier, healthier and more content than their U.S. counterparts. Sure, there were some bogan/redneck types in Canada - especially near the oil sand areas, but you didn't see the unrelenting bleakness of spirit that you see in the States once you get away from the coasts and large cities. I've spent entire days on old state highways in the Midwest, going through forgotten town after forgotten town and it's the most depressing thing ever - everyone is purposeless, shuffling, unhappy-looking. The factory/mill/whatever shut down and there's no purpose for the town and it's residents and they know it. I don't know if the reason you don't get the same impression of Canadian small towns is related to economic policies, or the population density or whatever, but there's definitely a difference. Welp, that's my impression of a different part of Canada than the OP mentioned.
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Jul 22, 2015 04:31
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I moved to Ontario from the UK 7 years ago now, and I haven't really had any of the experiences you're talking about here. The stuff I don't like is mostly rooted in the more extreme weather, and the healthcare system feeling less effective than back home, and Ontario being generally very flat and pre-planned. That, and the immigration process taking some time (but that's pretty common to most countries I assume). However... The economic opportunities are much greater. Housing is much more affordable. I can actually take driving lessons and subsequently drive a car without bankrupting myself. There appear to be a lot less people content with surviving solely on welfare with little aspirations to move past it. I've literally never had anyone say anything negative to me about not being from here, although people generally can't tell (blended in real quick). I will say though that I, along with other Canadians, absolutely rag on Americans, mostly because they seem to have a really hard time with people not thinking USA #1. In my industry, I could land a job in America fairly easily, but I would never take it. I personally find the way the healthcare system, law enforcement, and politics works down there genuinely unsettling. It's probably pretty sweet for most immigrants coming from much worse places, but having lived in the UK and Canada, and visited the US a few times, it's just not for me.
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Jul 22, 2015 04:43
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JnnyThndrs posted:I've spent entire days on old state highways in the Midwest, going through forgotten town after forgotten town and it's the most depressing thing ever - everyone is purposeless, shuffling, unhappy-looking. The factory/mill/whatever shut down and there's no purpose for the town and it's residents and they know it.
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Jul 22, 2015 05:54
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I was gonna say it was prejudiced to think of small towns as bleak and horrible, but I dunno. Raw capitalism in the US sure has affected small towns a lot in negative ways so I can't really opine what it's like there vs here. I suppose the people sticking to staying might create a close knit atmosphere though. I like living in a rural place myself and wouldn't change it for the world, but I also live in a place that's doing well economically and even growing and having a large multicultural component, a county of 6000 and we have in a small area, bosnian, thai and middle eastern restaurants, in addition to the local ones, which is kinda cool for the countryside. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Jul 22, 2015 |
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Jul 22, 2015 07:06
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SexyPatTO posted:But just try walking past people on the street without getting a "hello" nod. Try standing in line at the supermarket without having a nice brief conversation with the person behind you and/or the cashier. In DC there is this weird sense of "we're all in this together, right?" and your day is routinely punctuated with pleasant human interactions. I've always found the American tendency to talk to strangers like they're your friends to be very off putting and even creepy. Canada is sounding better and better.
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Jul 22, 2015 08:57
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FreudianSlippers posted:This is good though. Cause america has no culture with which to mediate interactions, aside from the shallowest and shrillest corporate dronespeak. I'm only really realizing this on my 5th trip to SE Asia. Strangers (even shopkeepers) have a real base from which to interact with you here. People have unspoken societal roles here unheard of in the US. Whether that's better or worse is not what I am driving at, maybe just that the US is a young country.
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Jul 22, 2015 09:20
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Seik posted:Ontario being generally very flat and pre-planned. And whose fault would that be?
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Jul 22, 2015 09:35
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Do small towns in America also all have a Chinese restaurant? Out here they do. Even in the village where my mom grew up there is a Chinese restaurant as one of the two restaurants.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:41
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Nessa posted:Do small towns in America also all have a Chinese restaurant? I can't remember the degree to which that was policy driven and social-racism driven but the Canadian Chinese diaspora is from specific things that happened after the railway finished which basically limited them to restaurants and maybe one or two other businesses. This forced the diaspora in the sense that how many restaurants can a place sustain?
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Jul 22, 2015 22:14
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Nessa posted:Do small towns in America also all have a Chinese restaurant? They do. I have problems with Canadian Chinese food though. Why is it so, so sweet? 
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Jul 22, 2015 22:51
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subpar anachronism posted:They do. I have problems with Canadian Chinese food though. Why is it so, so sweet? Because the average Canadian has a child's palate.
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Jul 23, 2015 00:03
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I'm an american living in Canada and it loving rules. I love it here! Ostie de tabarnak!! The canadian inferiority complex is real though. Canadians plaster the maple leaf on every drat thing, year-round, easily matching the stars-n-stripes/lone star output of my home back in Texas. Wal-mart Canada, McDonald's Canada, Dominoes, even cartoonishly american chains incorporate the maple leaf in their logo. They also refuse to believe that the US could, in any way, be preferable to or nicer than Canada. And yeah, some people don't like immigrants. I've been flat-out told "you'll never be a real canadian." and generally discouraged from trying to integrate, and the people saying this poo poo don't see it as offensive. It's particularly frustrating because often the same people will tell you you aren't a "real" immigrant so you don't even get the White Man's Burden baby gloves. OTOH I can pass as native and *most* people aren't that obtuse and cruel about it. They're also dicks to québécois about language even though, functionally, Québec is the only bilingual province. Like it's pretty easy to get by anywhere in Québec with only english, not even a "parlez-vous anglais?", but you'll get poo poo on if you walk into a Tims in Ontario and start speaking french. The small towns definitely are more vibrant and healthy than in Texas. Québec rules, the rest of it is like the nicer bits of the US, just stay the gently caress out of SW Ontario. vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 00:05
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vintagepurple posted:And yeah, some people don't like immigrants. I've been flat-out told "you'll never be a real canadian." and generally discouraged from trying to integrate, and the people saying this poo poo don't see it as offensive. It's particularly frustrating because often the same people will tell you you aren't a "real" immigrant so you don't even get the White Man's Burden baby gloves. OTOH I can pass as native and *most* people aren't that obtuse and cruel about it. They're also dicks to québécois about language even though, functionally, Québec is the only bilingual province. Like it's pretty easy to get by anywhere in Québec with only english, not even a "parlez-vous anglais?", but you'll get poo poo on if you walk into a Tims in Ontario and start speaking french. We have the cultural mosaic! You are encouraged not to integrate, lest you give up part of your culture even temporarily. Regarding the language thing, I have seen people treat Francophones like garbage outside Quebec, and regardless of my feelings about my time spent in Montreal (in fact, largely because of them), I find it absolutely appalling. It is as much their right to come here and try to use French, and be treated in a friendly manner, as it was my right to speak English and try to learn French without being treated like crap, and two wrongs don't make a right. The one difference I saw was the the Quebecois who didn't speak English well (or at all) were usually willing to help me out with my French. The ones who did know English preferred to laugh at my attempts to learn French (again, downtown Montreal, the nexus of all assholedom in the universe). On the other hand, people that don't know a lick of French out here tend to behave very rudely indeed to Francophones under all circumstances, and frankly they deserve to be called out on it and shamed more often.
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Jul 23, 2015 01:02
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People from either linguistic group who can speak the dominant language but choose not to because "their rights" are almost universally dicks, and that includes Franco-bilinguals in Ontario just as much as it does Anglo-bilinguals in Quebec or either in Nova Scotia (our only officially bilingual province). There was a story last week with the [English] headline "Man refused service in Verdun ER for speaking English". Then in the actual article it explains that he is a fluently bilingual Quebecker who chose to speak English when he went to the hospital to ask for a replacement for his expired hospital card, which is a far cry from using your mother tongue to quickly and succinctly ask for emergency medical care. It's a perfect parallel to the fluently bilingual guy who asked for a Seven-Up on a Air Canada flight and pitched a fit that went all the way to the Supreme Court when they were unable to serve him his drink in French. Both of these people were acting like giant floppy weenuses. "You're in Quebec, speak French" actually means "You're in Quebec, speak French if you can and if you're really bad at it we can find an Anglo" and vice-versa in the ROC, and people who take it any other way seriously need to calm themselves down and remember that we're all friends here. PT6A posted:people that don't know a lick of French out here tend to behave very rudely indeed to Francophones under all circumstances, and frankly they deserve to be called out on it and shamed more often. PT6A posted:We have the cultural mosaic! You are encouraged not to integrate, lest you give up part of your culture even temporarily. If you can get in on a Somali-Canadian outdoor chat session, do that (but don't chew the leaves). They're great conversationalists if you can keep them using a language you know. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 01:29
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Eskaton posted:As someone who actually lives in a town like that (and actually prefers it over big cities), I don't think you get quite the right image of it just passing through town. Nah, I'm not trying to rag on small towns in general - I grew up in one and like the lack of crowds and poo poo. I'm talking about a particular sort of small town, generally in the Midwest, but you'll find them anywhere that an Interstate bypassed the town, then the mill closed, then agriculture became untenable for the small farmer and it finally ends with a complete brain drain - any young people with an ounce of ambition GTFO at age 18 and you're left with old people, people on disability and the few young people left are dumb as rocks. There'll be a few slowly-failing small businesses and just an air of complete despair, it's really very sad. Like...nothing's been painted for years and nobody tends their yards and it's like a very subtle horror movie where nothing scary ends up happening. It's quite different than just a Mayberry-esque small town with "a slower pace" and other stock platitudes, places where people are there because they CHOOSE to be there - the places I'm referring to are places where the inhabitants have nowhere else to go.
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Jul 23, 2015 02:08
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PT6A posted:Except you end up with the same complete lack of culture exhibited in most of Canada. Canada definitely has a pretty mediocre food culture. The produce you get in Toronto is expensive and not very fresh, because we have tariffs to protect our agricultural industry from being outcompeted by the USA's (and it needs protection because our climate is so comparably ill-suited to farming.) I'm a big fan of Canadian restaurant food, though. Game meat, salmon, foraged ingredients, and root vegetables. Good poo poo. Re: The Francophone thing -- it's cultural as much as linguistic. Everyone I've met from Quebec has been loud and overly forward by Toronto standards. Of course, by Quebec standards Torontonians are chilly and insincere. People act much closer to "Toronto nice" in the Midwest and Northeast USA than they do in Quebec. SexyPatTO posted:I wish someone had told me, before I came to Canada, that "immigrant" is a real identity you have to assume. As a Canadian who's lived in the USA, who knows a bunch of USA-born Canadians and dual citizens, I really have no idea what you mean/feel by this. I'd barely think of somebody from the USA as an immigrant.
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Jul 23, 2015 02:10
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SexyPatTO posted:If you mention the US, Torontonians, Ontarians, probably most Canadians in general, think they have it all figured out already and are happy to tell you so. This is true. One of my uncles married a Canadian woman, who saw the fog roll into San Francisco and gave tongue-tsk and said, "Look at all that smog!" Their grandson, on the other hand, really wanted to move here. Or at least he did, before he did something really stupid that made Canada's national news and probably got him blacklisted by the US. On the other hand, while actually being in Toronto, I've never gotten poo poo on for being foreign. My interactions with strangers are usually help with directions (especially before smartphones really got big, but I still end up trying to find subway entrances etc). When people ask where I'm from, I never mention the US, I just say my town. But I don't live in the US capital, and Vegas is also a vacation destination visited by a lot of Canadians, so I get the same "which casino do you live in" and "have you had strippers or showgirls living next door" nonsense that I get from Americans. Toronto especially is a city with a lot of immigrants, Americans speak okay English and I imagine among those who have judgmental opinions about immigrants are considered "among the good ones." I saw a hindu taxi driver being harassed by his passenger at a police stop at the side of the street, calling him a terrorist and whatever else. Americans don't have to put up with that. What you have to put up with, if anything, is the shocked indignation that we don't vote to [support whatever cause] already. And you just have to put up with that because Canadians can't vote in US politics. PT6A posted:The problem with our attitude toward immigration is that the government officially believes in multiculturalism and the "cultural mosaic" model instead of the melting pot model of the States, and it's reflected in exactly what you describe. There's no pressure on immigrants to integrate into mainstream Canadian society, and in a lot of cases there are forces that discourage it (people being criticized for "giving up their culture"), so ultimately you get groups of people that feel like they don't really "belong" anywhere outside their own little community. I think the Canadian model is better, but I also admit that I have heard many more hours of multiculturalism discussed on CBC Radio's "Ideas" podcast than I have from any US scholars. SexyPatTO posted:See, this is what I'm talking about. First of all, my kids, who currently live in Canada, currently listen to "O Canada" every day. Second, if they lived in the US it is just possible (not inevitable) that they might have to swear allegiance to the flag every day, and if they did, yes, I would find that offensive, and most Americans I know would as well! Maybe DC is a bit more sceptical of blind patriotism gestures than most places, and maybe in Vermont and other places where contact outside of the US is common, but in most places I think we still have the whole thing where you say the pledge and teachers say with serious faces that you live in the greatest country on Earth like a factual objective statement. At least, this was where things still were in 2000, and I can't imagine with the events that happened a year later that the fervor died down. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 03:22
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Saeku posted:
For someone like me, coming from Texas and having very little awareness of Canada until I came here (for a girl), this is sort of a problem that I could see bothering the OP (I mean he seems like a dick still but...). Sometimes I pronounce words in a southern way or don't get some cultural reference people will treat like a moron or a jackass- I'm a normal canadian until I act uncanadian, then it's weird and I'm wrong. Also, lots of things that are just my personality get blamed on being texan, or people will talk down to me about how Texas must be much worse than I describe it, because of course it's a conservative hellhole. Canada isn't like that, eh? Or conversations like "actually I see a lot of racism here that wouldn't fly in Texas- it's just a different sort, and directed towards different groups." "Oh no, Canada isn't racist. You're just so inherently racist that you think we are because you don't understand Canada." The weird douchey attitude is pretty much entirely confined to like, the belt from Windsor to somewhere just west of Kingston, though. (And also Queen's students but that's a different story.) It must be anecdotal to some extent but mentally I've very much come to consider roughly Napanee as a dividing line between "country of megadouches" and "country of chillest dudes ever" which extends all the way to Maine and Newfoundland. Actually that's basically where you transition from flat poo poo drab Ontario to the Thousand Islands. Which might explain the attitudes. I am also a lapsed francophone from birth though, so that changes people's perceptions. Francophones will often be befuddled when I speak in a near-perfect euro accent but then either can't continue speaking or can't understand their accents. I've been driving around listening to franco talk shows though so that's improving. vintagepurple fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 03:44
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vintagepurple posted:I'm an american living in Canada and it loving rules. I love it here! Ostie de tabarnak!! The insanity of American federal politics tends to scare Canadians because we're more used to ignoring politics up until Stephen Harper wins another election. Southern Ontario is essentially the Midwest, for all that entails. I want to make a joke about Sault Ste. Marie or Thunder Bay, but I have never met a single person from either town. vintagepurple posted:For someone like me, coming from Texas and having very little awareness of Canada until I came here (for a girl), this is sort of a problem that I could see bothering the OP (I mean he seems like a dick still but...). Sometimes I pronounce words in a southern way or don't get some cultural reference people will treat like a moron or a jackass- I'm a normal canadian until I act uncanadian, then it's weird and I'm wrong. Also, lots of things that are just my personality get blamed on being texan, or people will talk down to me about how Texas must be much worse than I describe it, because of course it's a conservative hellhole. Canada isn't like that, eh? Or conversations like "actually I see a lot of racism here that wouldn't fly in Texas- it's just a different sort, and directed towards different groups." "Oh no, Canada isn't racist. You're just so inherently racist that you think we are because you don't understand Canada." The difference between Canadian and American is basically nonexistant. But that just makes the weird discrepancies more noticable. Little Canadian flags on corporate logos are not really what people notice though. Being from Texas is like an international "make fun of me" sticker though. Everybody in the world has heard of Texans. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Jul 23, 2015 |
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Jul 23, 2015 04:46
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I'm an American who moved to canada and Canada rules. All points are now moot.
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Jul 23, 2015 05:32
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I'm an NZer who lived in BC for a year in 1999, going to both grade school and high school while I was there, and touring into Washington and Oregon during the spring break. During the time I was there, I don't think I met a single person from either country who was less than wholeheartedly welcoming. I'd go back in a heartbeat. My friends did give me poo poo about talking funny but what do you expect. I didn't sing the national anthem daily (I think we sang it in assembly weekly at the elementary) All countries teach their own history first because the kids give even less of a poo poo what happened ages ago when it happened in another part of the world. You mentioned 'unfriendly' people who won't acknowledge you in the street or talk to you. You won't find that anywhere else in the English speaking world either. You can strike up a conversation with a stranger, but you need to be in tune with the cultural norms that are different to US ones (i.e. you need a reason or at least a particularly funny joke to intrude on someone else's time) Expensive goods: Taxes, shipping and labour costs. The price of having a government that mandates high minimum wages, has to import food and prioritizes a various societal benefits over ease of business. TL;DR: Desmodus rotundus posted:I'm an American who moved to canada and Canada rules. All points are now moot.
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Jul 23, 2015 06:45
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FreudianSlippers posted:This is good though. Meanwhile I've never gone a day where I've gone outside and not had a stranger at least say "afternoon" when I walk past or the like. 
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Jul 24, 2015 05:08
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Born, raised and never left Ontario here. Many times I've told Americans that our healthcare system has serious drawbacks, and they never believe me. "Ohhh, it must be SO TOUGH to have a free doctor's appointment! SO HARD to get a broken leg casted for free!" They whine. While it's true that happens, they have no idea of what occurs as a result of that: horribly overburdened ERs that can't handle the amount of people waiting, so people can wait anywhere from 8 hours to an entire day to be seen, and are sometimes turned away or forgotten entirely. A disabled man in Alberta died a couple years ago of an easily treatable bladder infection after he was waiting in the ER for 24 hours, completely forgotten by everyone. My neighbor fell off a roof and shattered his hip. He was given pain medication and sent home because there were no beds available. He was in agony for 3 days before he could finally be seen. My brother just this past couple weeks had a back injury that caused his legs to go numb (potentially an emergency surgery situation). The doctors sent him home 3 separate occasions over the course of a week without treatment, thinking he was playing up his discomfort. He had to beg for an MRI. In my province you can forget about finding a family doctor, either. They are all full. You either already have to be a patient from the last 20 years or you have to spend years on a waiting list. If you get sick in the meantime, you have to go to an urgent care clinic or the ER, where as mentioned, the wait times are so long and the doctors so overworked that they look for the quickest diagnoses they can find to get through as many people as possible. It took 6 MONTHS for my worsening gallstones to be diagnosed because they wouldn't take the time to do the tests needed to find out what was actually wrong with me. One doctor tried to tell me I had chlamydia despite 2 negative tests. Also, if you pay attention you will quickly learn that instead of being horribly racist towards black people, Canadians are horribly racist towards native people. I'm part native and some of the things I have seen are simply appalling. We currently have a crisis where thousands of native women and girls are missing or murdered, and more go missing or turn up dead every day, and the government refuses to do an inquiry. Me and everyone I know with native blood have someone in our circle who is missing or murdered.
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Jul 24, 2015 07:43
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OP, Stan Rogers's charred corpse is gonna gently caress your torso full of holes and sing "Northwest Passage" through your popo body like an Inuit throat singer.
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Jul 24, 2015 15:31
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Racism against Natives is absolutely a thing. Public schools don't teach much history or civics to begin with, and with the exception of the Manitoba Schools Question and just enough about Louis Riel to make everyone agree he existed, we're taught basically nothing about the genocide, what the rez actually is, basic treaty politics or anything like that. I saw "Where The Spirit Lives" when I was twelve and I thought it was a work of fiction. In Ontario it mainly persists in the form of stupid, grade-school quality myths and staggering ignorance. Out west where Natives and other Canadians live in closer quarters, you'll hear slurs, there'll be discrimination, sometimes there'll be violence and the other things one might expect when some people with problems, from a population with a double digit suicide rate and a ludicrously large presence in both prison and foster care, interact with people who don't have those issues. And that's a gross oversimplification. It's a complicated, lovely issue that could easily be its own thread.
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Jul 24, 2015 15:52
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:After a google search, it looks the anthem singing is just a quirk of one of (?) Toronto's school boards. It's not just Toronto, I don't/didn't live in Toronto and all the schools in my area sang the anthem every morning, both school boards including elementary and highschools. Mind you, this was also 20 years ago so things may have changed.
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Jul 24, 2015 19:41
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OP did you visit for at least a month before moving there, because if not what the hell man you moved to another country with no exit plan until over a decade later and are mad that you don't like it?
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Jul 24, 2015 19:49
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Guys don't move to Canada it is realllllly bland and normal!!
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Jul 24, 2015 22:59
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