|
The US should be held to a higher standard than China but if you act as though China and the US treat their domestic dissidents in the same way then you're going to end up looking ridiculous.
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:24 |
|
|
HorseLord posted:Native reservations, Puerto Rico. Yes, US treatment of native reservations and Puerto Rico is exactly analogous to Chinese treatment of Inner Mongolia and Tibet. Oh wait.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 16:27
|
|
|
Skeesix posted:Yes, US treatment of native reservations and Puerto Rico is exactly analogous to Chinese treatment of Inner Mongolia and Tibet. You're right, what was the exchange rate for Native scalp : USD again?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
And you
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:04
|
|
|
In my opinion all bad things a country does apply retroactively to its ability to criticize others forever. Therefore nobody has the moral high ground ever and its pointless to think about it. Neener neener *invades Ukraine*
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:10
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:In my opinion all bad things a country does apply retroactively to its ability to criticize others forever. Therefore nobody has the moral high ground ever and its pointless to think about it. No you see when Putin does that it's wrong and evil. When the Soviet Union imperialistically invades its neighbors however they're doing it for the greater good to spread the glorious Communist Revolution
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
Guy DeBorgore posted:And you And still using Blacks as slaves (see Louisiana prisons).
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:26
|
|
|
Guy DeBorgore posted:And you no, "are" still works
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:29
|
|
|
ThirdPartyView posted:And still using Blacks as slaves (see Louisiana prisons). ...Albeit on a smaller scale and with slightly more respect for human dignity than China's system of prison slave labor.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 17:48
|
|
|
The whole argument destroying the OP is this sentence:Helsing posted:The US should be held to a higher standard than China but if you act as though China and the US treat their domestic dissidents in the same way then you're going to end up looking ridiculous. But to be honest this gives the OP far more respect than it deserves. The premise behind the OP needs to be disregarded, mocked and marginalized with the utmost disrespect such that the premise behind it can be considered no more than a sick joke. It is frankly extremely embarrassing to leftists that people like the OP exist and have the gall to associate themselves with contemporary leftist movements. The unexpected popularity of Bernie Sanders, has demonstrated on a national platform that leftism and equality and police reform need not go hand in hand with this horseshit. He probably won't win, but by having a national platform he shows leftist stances need not go hand in hand with the kind of people Fox News eagerly hunts down in order to misrepresent socialism. The OP, on the other hand, is exactly the kind of person Fox would love to interview in order to make leftists seem to be people totally disconnected from the reality of the world, to make them seem like they can offer nothing to society. After all, how could someone so disconnected with reality hope to connect with the common man? Bernie Sanders, on the other hand, lives on planet earth and everything about his platform is about helping the common man. Support him, mock the OP. Every critique made towards America in this thread suffers from the implicit comparison to China, which is demonstrably worse on all fronts. OP, if you have any decency you will gas this thread so that such critiques will not be infected by the insane comparison borne from your lack of perspective and/or potential mental illness. Unless you are Ted Rall, in which case please gas the thread and cut off your hands so you can't make awful cartoons anymore. E: Fixed a bunch of incomplete sentences, I need to preview this poo poo before I post it. Bifner McDoogle fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jul 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:06
|
|
|
Gum posted:no, "are" still works Please bring up some cases of this happening. I've been horrified by a few cases where I initially thought a lynching was what had occurred, but fortunately (though tragically) these ended up being suicides, at least from all the stories I have seen.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:07
|
|
|
Bifner McDoogle posted:Please bring up some cases of this happening. I've been horrified by a few cases where I initially thought a lynching was what had occurred, but fortunately (though tragically) these ended up being suicides, at least from all the stories I have seen. a number of the recent killings of black people by police would qualify under some of the common definitions. particularly the ones that were committed in public and where no legal action was taken against the perpetrator
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:15
|
|
|
Gum posted:a number of the recent killings of black people by police would qualify under some of the common definitions. particularly the ones that were committed in public and where no legal action was taken against the perpetrator That's a pretty dishonest argument, nobody thinks of cops murdering black kids for no reason when they think of "lynching", it's really not what the word means at all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:21
|
|
|
Gum posted:a number of the recent killings of black people by police would qualify under some of the common definitions. particularly the ones that were committed in public and where no legal action was taken against the perpetrator Do you not have a loving dictionary. Lynch: to put to death, especially by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority. E: y'know what, here's a link to the definition, just to make this real loving clear. Do you have no understanding that comparing a bad thing to something which is unequivocally worse makes that bad thing seem less bad. Its like the bizarro version of people who claim everything Isreal does is justified because the things ISIS does are worse.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:35
|
|
|
Bifner McDoogle posted:The whole argument destroying the OP is this sentence: I love how your post is the unique blend of ultraleftism that always props up Bad Things. Can't be a Real Socialist(TM) if you don't parrot anticommunst memes, defend the american empire from criticism, and pin your hopes on an elderly white liberal who's recycling the Obama 08' hope and change strategy only moreso. Meanwhile, people in this thread are debating if it really counts as lynching if a cop does it. Amazing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:40
|
|
|
Bifner McDoogle posted:Do you not have a loving dictionary. Plus using his argument the number of Uighurs and Tibetans that get killed by Chinese security (or lynched as he would claim) far outweighs the USA's police idiotic track record. Of course being that the Uighurs and Tibetans are reactionaries they have it coming.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:42
|
|
|
Today I learned lynchings aren't just hangings!
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I love how your post is the unique blend of ultraleftism that always props up Bad Things. Can't be a Real Socialist(TM) if you don't parrot anticommunst memes, defend the american empire from criticism, and pin your hopes on an elderly white liberal who's recycling the Obama 08' hope and change strategy only moreso. Communism as you envision it is a dead and failed ideology. It is gone and never coming back. You will live the rest of your life in a world without Stalinism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 18:52
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:I love how your post is the unique blend of ultraleftism that always props up Bad Things. Can't be a Real Socialist(TM) if you don't parrot anticommunst memes, defend the american empire from criticism, and pin your hopes on an elderly white liberal who's recycling the Obama 08' hope and change strategy only moreso. Bernie is nothing like Obama in 08. He has no party endorsements and is running to, if nothing else, redefine socialism so as to take the movement away from people such as yourself. People who are so disconnected from reality that you literally are unable to read a dictionary definition. The funny thing about this delusion is that you could argue that these police shooting are in some ways worse than lynching, in that they are not extralegal, they are not considered murder and have instead have earned much more approval from a state - instead of simply looking the other way to these murders the state has funded those guilty of these shootings. But if you think that these unjustified police shootings are the same as lynching you are then unable make that argument. It is no surprise then that your response contains no argument, just the continued assertion that your delusion is reality. If you do not identify as a leftist/socialist then I apologize for misunderstanding your position and invite you to continue making toxic arguments that allow us to marginalize your position as easily as Donald Trump may allow us to marginalize extreme nationalism through his own toxic, delusional sense of superiority.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:04
|
|
|
^Maybe once you've settled on if someone should invoke the spectre of lynching when discussing cops murdering black people or not, perhaps then you can move on to deciding if you're going to do an ineffectual non violent protest or instead sit at home and ignore it.Fojar38 posted:Communism as you envision it is a dead and failed ideology. It is gone and never coming back. Communism as I envision it is alive and well in the ruling parties of China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos, as well as non-ruling parties across the whole world, including ones currently involved in revolutionary wars. Communism as I envision it is incredibly varied, and in the main looks nothing like whatever crude cartoon of drunk people mining salt in a snowstorm you'd draw up. Fojar38 posted:You will live the rest of your life in a world without Stalinism. That doesn't present a problem because Stalinism isn't actually a thing nor has it ever been. If you picked a thousand people you consider "stalinist" in a room and checked their political opinions half of them would disagree with the room's consensus on each topic. It would probably be a lot more interesting than the tired poo poo liberals raised on western anticommunism say though. Bring back LF. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jul 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:13
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Communism as I envision it is alive and well in the ruling parties of China, Cuba, Vietnam, and Laos, as well as non-ruling parties across the whole world, including ones currently involved in revolutionary wars. I'm sure it's all of the western propaganda we've been fed over the years that is to blame for us not viewing these countries as the glorious paradises that they are, right?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
MaxxBot posted:I'm sure it's all of the western propaganda we've been fed over the years that is to blame for us not viewing these countries as the glorious paradises that they are, right? Developing countries poorer than developed countries shocker. In other news fire hot, water wet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:31
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:^Maybe once you've settled on if someone should invoke the spectre of lynching when discussing cops murdering black people or not, perhaps then you can move on to deciding if you're going to do an ineffectual non violent protest or instead sit at home and ignore it. I already did settle on if it makes sense to invoke the spectre of lynching (it isn't it does a disservice to understanding lynching and/or police shootings, it attaches an emotional reaction to something so inherently outrageous that the comparison is unnecessary and serves to undermine the arguement). I also do not do ineffectual non-violent protests or sit at home to ignore it, I instead participate in effectual non-violent protests that seek to solidify labor and minority rights. I'd say your posting suggest you protest via eating lead paint chips, but the unjust and illegal proliferation on lead paint in poorer neighborhoods makes this comparison offensive so I'll stick to calling you delusional.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:Communism as you envision it is a dead and failed ideology. It is gone and never coming back. You will live the rest of your life in a world without Stalinism. Wouldn't be so sure about that one. People tend to not learn from their past mistakes.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:33
|
|
|
Bifner McDoogle posted:I already did settle on if it makes sense to invoke the spectre of lynching (it isn't it does a disservice to understanding lynching and/or police shootings, it attaches an emotional reaction to something so inherently outrageous that the comparison is unnecessary and serves to undermine the arguement). I also do not do ineffectual non-violent protests or sit at home to ignore it, I instead participate in effectual non-violent protests that seek to solidify labor and minority rights. I'd say your posting suggest you eat lead paint chips, but the unjust and illegal proliferation on lead paint in poorer neighborhoods makes this comparison offensive so I'll stick to calling you delusional. Thinking that non violence protest is an effective method of fixing the problem while calling others delusional is really special. Between that and the apparently Sincere belief that Bernie Sander's flavour of bland pre-blair social democrat ideas are "socialist" you're a real special one. Socialism without socialism. Amazing. Welcome to ignore list pissbaby hell, it'll keep you warm after you get your miracle and Bernie becomes Hillary's VP in time for more welfare cuts, weapons shipments to israel, and war in the middle east.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:37
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Developing countries poorer than developed countries shocker. In other news fire hot, water wet. Developing countries that seem to be in perpetual "development" for some reason. Also loving lol that you cited goddamn China, one of the most capitalist countries on the planet right now, as your ideal communist utopia.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:40
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Thinking that non violence protest is an effective method of fixing the problem while calling others delusional is really special. Pissbaby?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:47
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Bring back LF. HorseLord you are a living embodiment of every argument made against bringing back LF
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:49
|
|
|
Fojar38 posted:Also loving lol that you cited goddamn China, one of the most capitalist countries on the planet right now, as your ideal communist utopia. Nothing's more capitalist than literally not being able to own land, state owned enterprises being over half the economy, major businesses being pushed around by the CPC, and corrupt bosses getting snatched off the street and killed by roving death vans. Pictured: Free market capitalist captain of industry in china:  Also nah, the "ideal communist utopia" is a thing that is worked towards (over centuries), not a thing that exists currently. You cannot be a country with a definable state when you have reached the communist historical era. This is 101 poo poo. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Jul 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 19:55
|
|
|
HorseLord doesn't know what Stae Capitalism is and that makes me sad because it means he isn't putting as much effort into his LF Stalinist gimmick as it deserves.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:05
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Nothing's more capitalist than literally not being able to own land, state owned enterprises being over half the economy, major businesses being pushed around by the CPC, and corrupt bosses getting snatched off the street and killed by roving death vans. Pictured: Free market capitalist in America:  Rent-A-Cop posted:HorseLord doesn't know what Stae Capitalism is and that makes me sad because it means he isn't putting as much effort into his LF Stalinist gimmick as it deserves. He's a gimmick? Guess I'm the pissbaby after all, drat.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:08
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:HorseLord doesn't know what Stae Capitalism is and that makes me sad because it means he isn't putting as much effort into his LF Stalinist gimmick as it deserves. Instead of making poo poo up about me you could actually engage with what I say, instead. Is "Bolshevism is the left force of capital" not low hanging enough for you or something?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:13
|
|
|
maybe bad things in the U.S. are worse than bad things in China because the U.S. is the leading power of liberal democracy and western ideals and as such the bad things they do are taken in higher regard than some state-capitalism,special zone billion people mess on the other side of the world.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
Mans posted:maybe bad things in the U.S. are worse than bad things in China because the U.S. is the leading power of liberal democracy and western ideals and as such the bad things they do are taken in higher regard than some state-capitalism,special zone billion people mess on the other side of the world. Why compare it to China at all then and not another liberal democracy so we can get a good old fashioned "which side of the Atlantic is better" circlejerk? Fojar38 fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:36
|
|
|
the OP is stupid as gently caress and i wasn't responding to it. and why is it a circlejerk? Why can't liberal democracies compare merits and flaws? It would certainly be more productive than comparing our processes with things that have nothing to do with our system.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:38
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:Instead of making poo poo up about me you could actually engage with what I say, instead. Is "Bolshevism is the left force of capital" not low hanging enough for you or something? He is engaging with what you said, that you don't understand state capitalism, he's just adding some jokes for flavor. An example of a post that makes up false things statements without engaging you would be "HorseLord doesn't love sucking off horses" or "HorseLord is a wife beater, though by that I mean the clothing. But he is also not someone who beats his wife" Why does anyone put people on ignore, this is the most fun I've ever had in D&D
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:40
|
|
|
Bifner McDoogle posted:He is engaging with what you said, that you don't understand state capitalism, You don't know what you just quoted means. Particularly that little bit in these funny little " " marks, and what it signifies. I do understand State Capitalism, and I haven't said anything that's incompatible with me understanding it. Any idea to the contrary is wishful thinking. That the CPC have set the economy up with a private sector does not make them any less communists. They're hella into Marx and Lenin. At any rate people (usually trots) will abuse the term State Capitalism to mean literally anything from Yugoslavia to the united states (they are a state which endorse capitalism), to China (they are a state with a capitalist sector of the economy), to the USSR (the state as a capitalist). The term shifts meaning depending on it's target, but never actually engages with their beliefs and goals. One thing is certain, regarding China: You try and force your preconceptions on their way of doing things and you're going to have a bad time. Western genius economists have been saying they're about to have a recession any day now for like 30 years. Perhaps they're doing it wrong? HorseLord fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 18, 2015 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:44
|
|
|
Mans posted:maybe bad things in the U.S. are worse than bad things in China because the U.S. is the leading power of liberal democracy and western ideals and as such the bad things they do are taken in higher regard than some state-capitalism,special zone billion people mess on the other side of the world. Mans posted:the OP is stupid as gently caress and i wasn't responding to it. Agreed, though Helsing beat you to this argument at the top of the page. Thing is if the OP is this ridiculous it makes it real hard to take the rest of the thread seriously, so this if more a place to blow off steam and have a laugh, the actual climate change/police brutality/election thread are informative but depressing as heck since they're about real serious issues. You're a funny guy and it'd be awesome to see you take advantage of the goofiness here.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:46
|
|
|
HorseLord posted:You don't know what you just quoted means. Particularly that little bit in these funny little " " marks, and what it signifies. I thought I was on ignore? Man this is another example of how communists can't be trusted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 20:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 14:24 |
|
|
Communism is the nonexistent pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. And that rainbow is made of dead bodies. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2015 22:19
|
|