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LookingGodIntheEye posted:Are they good if they're not fulfilling a constructive purpose though? Yes, assuming one enjoys being human and not a robotic autistic
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Jul 20, 2015 12:14
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The idea that humanity would die out if all gender differences were removed ( assuming this leads no one wanting to have children) really does not bother me. If it ever comes to that the state would just step in and coerce fertile couples to breed. It`s simply not a problem worth considering.
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Jul 20, 2015 12:59
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I think that voluntary human extinction is a better endgame than government rape personally.
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Jul 20, 2015 13:02
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:Are they good if they're not fulfilling a constructive purpose though? If you only ever experience emotions you like you will have a rather skewed view of humanity.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:17
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My experience: the people who have had the most poo poo happen to them in their lives and have had to experience the most pain, are also the most empathetic. If you have been extremely low, and you know someone who is in a bad place, your experiences can help you to understand them, comfort them and to walk them back. I would never call that ability useless. The new Pixar film Inside Out comes to mind actually (it's awesome go see it): joy makes us love life, fear keeps us safe, disgust makes sure we fit in socially, anger keeps things fair, and sadness lets other people know that we need help from others. 'Emotions are useless' is a terrible statement, and one that I believe contributes to a drab and repressive social environment.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:33
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I mean I don't reckon everyone should have a super lovely life so they can be empathetic because that wasn't pleasant, but to at least have a concept of suffering is pretty important for proper social awareness and interaction.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:35
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OwlFancier posted:I mean I don't reckon everyone should have a super lovely life so they can be empathetic because that wasn't pleasant, but to at least have a concept of suffering is pretty important for proper social awareness and interaction. No of course not it just gets me a bit irksome when people dismiss emotions and emotional intelligence as largely 'useless'. It's something which most women incidentally, either through inherent biology, socialisation or likely a mixture of both, are better at than most men. E: and I firmly believe that this association of emotion with 'uselessness' is why we have pricks advocating 'gently caress the poor' policies because they see compassion as something feminine and not worth it. I believe it's why society is more materialistic than it ought to be, and I believe that it is genuinely holding us back. a neurotic ai fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 14:47
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I reckon that's got more to do with them all being rich twats who have no idea what being poor entails but yeah, similar idea.
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Jul 20, 2015 14:53
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I am in a fortunate enough position where I have never needed to worry about getting food on the table. I am a relatively 'rich gently caress' but I would see a new system implemented tomorrow or a spate of tax increases if it meant a healthier, more equal society. You're right in that compassion for those less well off is harder to find as you go up the chain, but it's not always the case that it is absent. If more rich fucks had a bit more empathy for others much less well off than them, I think society would be a much better position. E: so basically what I am saying is that the 'visual essay' (lol) is a rather transparent attempt to paint men specifically as the victims of a particular set of emotional expectations. Society as a collective whole arguably suffers from this mentality far more in my book. Compassion and emotion is seen as a feminine trait, weakness, and the way to overcome this is by empowering it. a neurotic ai fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 15:00
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afeelgoodpoop posted:Why do you think they would do this rather than use cheaper, less socially equal immigrants to supplement the host societys losses? Many countries would reasonably fear the loss of their culture to such an influx.
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Jul 20, 2015 19:20
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Ocrassus posted:My experience: the people who have had the most poo poo happen to them in their lives and have had to experience the most pain, are also the most empathetic. This is kind of the judeo-christian thing where you exalt suffering. Pain doesn't help anyone grow into a better person, it just wounds them and creates barriers to a healthy lifestyle. Suffering is way more likely to cause alienation and irrational feelings of fear or anger towards other people than compassion
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Jul 20, 2015 19:26
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:Are they good if they're not fulfilling a constructive purpose though? I too see nothing wrong with this assertion! As we've seen, it greatly increases the veteran life expectancy.
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Jul 20, 2015 19:29
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A big flaming stink posted:This is kind of the judeo-christian thing where you exalt suffering. Pain doesn't help anyone grow into a better person, it just wounds them and creates barriers to a healthy lifestyle. Suffering is way more likely to cause alienation and irrational feelings of fear or anger towards other people than compassion Perhaps you missed the reply where I said that suffering is not the end goal, empathy is? I'm only going off what I have observed here, and amongst my diverse set of friends, the people who have had to deal with these kind of problems in their own history are the first to pick up on and comfort others. Humans are social creatures, and it isn't hard to imagine that we evolved specific emotional responses to illicit reactions from our fellow tribe. It has utility.
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Jul 20, 2015 19:38
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A big flaming stink posted:Pain doesn't help anyone grow into a better person, it just wounds them and creates barriers to a healthy lifestyle. If you could would you choose to never feel physical pain?
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Jul 20, 2015 20:46
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Job Truniht posted:Because I think it is an ideology wholly owned and subsidized by the bourgeoise. Rarely does it permeate into where it is needed the most: households with high birth rates and huge amounts of poverty- both only possible because of traditional gender roles. Post gender equality will only happen after it does reach the proletariat. He's not wrong. Modern, Western feminism is so focused on "breaking the glass ceiling" that it's almost at the expense of women who work in lower income and/or traditionally "pink-color" jobs. Not to mention that while women earn 78% of what a man males overall, black women tend to earn 64% and Hispanic women earn 54%. It's not that feminism is a bad thing, it just has some issues it really needs to address (like every other leftist cause). MizPiz fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 20, 2015 |
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Jul 20, 2015 21:09
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Talmonis posted:Many countries would reasonably fear the loss of their culture to such an influx. I wonder if you can come up with a convincing explanation of what "culture" is beyond skin color.
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Jul 20, 2015 21:13
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A big flaming stink posted:This is kind of the judeo-christian thing where you exalt suffering. Pain doesn't help anyone grow into a better person, it just wounds them and creates barriers to a healthy lifestyle. Suffering is way more likely to cause alienation and irrational feelings of fear or anger towards other people than compassion I think another point of the movie is that all of the emotions, including joy, taken to excess, can be a problem.
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Jul 20, 2015 21:31
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SedanChair posted:I wonder if you can come up with a convincing explanation of what "culture" is beyond skin color. Customs and traditions mainly. Political issues of note, along with the range of said issues. Major religious and spiritual practices. Art, music and film style. All of those sort of things tie into a culture. America is "Multi-cultural" in that we take on a myriad of aspects from immigrant peoples cultures, which a lot of other countries explicitly resist doing so. Though yes, ethnicity, if you're talking a regional power, is a major part of culture as well. Russians are pretty insane about it at times when it comes to their geopolitical stances. Israelis too.
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Jul 20, 2015 21:45
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Talmonis posted:Customs and traditions mainly. Political issues of note, along with the range of said issues. Major religious and spiritual practices. Art, music and film style. Oh no, we used to have a film industry but now it's 100% nasheeds.
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Jul 20, 2015 21:56
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^^^Are you having a stroke? More so than usual I mean.LookingGodIntheEye posted:Personal emotions are dead weight, emotions are only useful to 1. express solitude with a group or 2. to fuel an ambition that serves a greater purpose to society. You'd make a good communist.
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Jul 20, 2015 21:59
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Nevvy Z posted:If you could would you choose to never feel physical pain? Like dead nerves or the magical world where there is never anything that causes physical pain. If the latter hell yeah sign me up. The first though would suck because the problems you'd get from neglecting simple injuries would be way loving worse
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Jul 20, 2015 21:59
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SedanChair posted:Oh no, we used to have a film industry but now it's 100% nasheeds. I mean yeah, it'd certainly be lamentable if Hollywood became more like Bollywood. Not everything needs to be a musical afterall.
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Jul 20, 2015 22:01
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A big flaming stink posted:Like dead nerves or the magical world where there is never anything that causes physical pain. If the latter hell yeah sign me up. The first though would suck because the problems you'd get from neglecting simple injuries would be way loving worse Now let's draw a big analogy line from physical nerve responses to emotional ones.
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Jul 20, 2015 22:02
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Nevvy Z posted:Now let's draw a big analogy line from physical nerve responses to emotional ones. I dont follow
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Jul 20, 2015 22:11
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A big flaming stink posted:I dont follow As in, we live in a world where negative emotions are a thing, therefore to not experience them to the point of not comprehending them renders you somewhat unable to properly comprehend the experience of those around you.
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Jul 20, 2015 23:02
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Talmonis posted:I mean yeah, it'd certainly be lamentable if Hollywood became more like Bollywood. Not everything needs to be a musical afterall. 
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Jul 21, 2015 00:31
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I was about to f close a HB 10 and my mom texted me to tell me my dad died and I got sad and want able to perform and I decided then and there never to have emotions again like a little beta bitch FDR took out a restraining order on account of I gently caress dimes daily now
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Jul 21, 2015 00:33
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I miss Happy Endings, can't we talk about Happy endings instead?
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Jul 21, 2015 01:38
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What if I think women too should refrain from outwards expressions of emotion? It is pretty contemptible if you think about it.
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Jul 21, 2015 02:36
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Ocrassus posted:
You don't have to be emotional to be compassionate. There are a variety of perfectly rational reasons not to treat someone like poo poo.
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Jul 21, 2015 02:51
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Ocrassus posted:Perhaps you missed the reply where I said that suffering is not the end goal, empathy is? I'm only going off what I have observed here, and amongst my diverse set of friends, the people who have had to deal with these kind of problems in their own history are the first to pick up on and comfort others. Ocrassus posted:My experience: the people who have had the most poo poo happen to them in their lives and have had to experience the most pain, are also the most empathetic. Yea my massive amount of personal experience with hosed up and broken people is unanimously the opposite. Suffering makes people callous and unemphatic, and tends to encourage worldviews that glorify enduring that suffering or that either the suffering or the source of it is "good for you". It also seems to encourage people to think "I dealt with it so stop being weak". I'm not talking strictly of battlefield trauma here either, there's lots of people I met with hosed up or sad backgrounds before they even get near a gun which exhibit the same sort of behavior. This can also be seen in many progressive causes throughout history where some of the most fervent reactionaries are the previous generation's victims. Jarmak fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 02:51
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Ocrassus posted:My experience: the people who have had the most poo poo happen to them in their lives and have had to experience the most pain, are also the most empathetic. I doubt this is generally true. Not that the average soldier or ex-con isn't an emotional open book.
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Jul 21, 2015 03:05
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Dreylad posted:hormones? which differ from person to person I guess so not really but is there a hormonal baseline difference between men and women? i know nothing about it I'd be shocked if that's not pretty well accepted. Just ask anyone who has done anabolic steroids about the mood swings. The user will feel confident/happy/powerful during the main part of the cycle, and then possibly fall into depression/bitchiness/lethargy during the Estrogen Rebound phase. I imagine transpeople who use hormones experience similar effects, but more muted and longer lastling. ---------------- Narciss fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Jul 21, 2015 |
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Jul 21, 2015 03:06
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LookingGodIntheEye posted:Personal emotions are dead weight, emotions are only useful to 1. express solitude with a group or 2. to fuel an ambition that serves a greater purpose to society. If emotions had no purpose then why would we have evolved them?
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Jul 21, 2015 03:36
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Jarmak posted:Yea my massive amount of personal with hosed up and broken people is unanimously the opposite. Suffering makes people callous and unemphatic, and tends to encourage worldviews that glorify enduring that suffering or that either the suffering or the source of it is "good for you". It also seems to encourage people to think "I dealt with it so stop being weak". I'm not talking strictly of battlefield trauma here either, there's lots of people I met with hosed up or sad backgrounds before they even get near a gun which exhibit the same sort of behavior. The point about victims becoming oppressors is true, but I don't think that's particularly relevant to this kind of personal psychology, it just shows that the malicious corrupting effects of power are universal.
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Jul 21, 2015 03:57
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Narciss posted:I'd be shocked if that's not pretty well accepted. Just ask anyone who has done anabolic steroids about the mood swings. The user will feel confident/happy/powerful during the main part of the cycle, and then possibly fall into depression/bitchiness/lethargy during the Estrogen Rebound phase. I imagine transpeople who use hormones experience similar effects, but more muted and longer lastling. Hormones certainly do have an effect, however there is enough variation among individuals to make prescribing emotional behaviour based on sex foolish. You would be surprised by some of the in-jokes trans people have about the unexpected effects of hormones. "Testosterone makes you gay [i.e.attracted to men]" for ftms, people finding that their skin inexplicably gets worse with less of it in their system, etc. Also to generalize, it's more like anger and depression are basically the same emotion but expressed differently because of the hormones, not that testosterone is a happy hormone and estrogen a bitch hormone. A person who is messing with their hormones who generally has a negative demeanor will be quick to anger when pumped full of testosterone and quick to tears when full of estrogen. Depending on the situation one or the other might be better. If you need to solve a problem anger is usually more helpful. If there's nothing you can do about a problem it makes sense to have a cry and move on rather than create pointless conflict.
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Jul 21, 2015 05:02
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rudatron posted:The point about victims becoming oppressors is true, but I don't think that's particularly relevant to this kind of personal psychology, it just shows that the malicious corrupting effects of power are universal. This is admittedly idle speculation on my part, but it always seemed to me that many times when the victims become the oppressors it seems to be based in large part on the fact they've internalized the original oppressors viewpoint on the abuse being good/necessary/justified. Hazing rituals are a good example of the phenomenon I'm talking about. The reaction is certainly not universal, because like you said some people use suffering as motivation to keep others from feeling similar pain. But my personal experience, and I feel history as well, tend to indicate the other reaction is far more common.
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Jul 21, 2015 05:36
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rudatron posted:I think the difference has to do with the way you handle suffering as to which way you'll go. If you seek to justify it or externalize it, you'll become callous and uncaring. If you see it as arbitrary or internalize it, that experience will be used as a reference point for the suffering of others. Part of that is going to be informed by gender roles, where (unfortunately) men tend to do the former, because being perceived as weak is instantly emasculating. I don't think the maxim that says power is a universally (or even generally) corrupting force is one that should be as blindly accepted as it is. People in positions with the kinds of power to which that saying usually refers (political, economic, bureaucratic etc.) tend to be viewed by those without those powers – and therefore the public at large – as being more morally corrupt than the norm in a given society. But that doesn't necessarily mean that their power corrupted them. I think it's fairly obvious that most people don't really know what their scruples truly are until they're placed in a position where the application of them might have some consequence. The kinds of powers with which we interact most frequently (pedagogical, pastoral, parental etc.) aren't really considered corruptive at all, if you think about it. Do we expect the near-absolute power parents have over their children to turn them callous and sadistic?
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Jul 22, 2015 05:04
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WitchFetish posted:I miss Happy Endings, can't we talk about Happy endings instead? I would marry Casey Wilson if she wasn't already married.
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Jul 22, 2015 08:52
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Paul Ekman is a researcher who wrote a lot of fantastic books about emotions and how we express them, and it's pretty laughable to hear anyone talk about how we'd be better off without emotions or without expressing emotions. We'd never get anything done, and the people who are already at the bottom of the ladder would get hosed over even harder. Anger and sadness have done a great deal to get us where we are, socially. Every emotion has its place and use.
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Jul 22, 2015 16:07
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