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HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Grrl Power is a prime example of a lame fetish comic for weirdos that insists that it is not a lame fetish comic for weirdos, just like Spinnerette and Gold Digger

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HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Hunter sure has things figured out :stare:

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Megatokyo sucked even before Rodney left; like a lot of mediocre long-running comic strips, it just happened to show up at the right time (specifically when early-00's otaku culture was getting huge and there weren't that many webcomics targeting that audience) and still maintains popularity due to sheer inertia.

The only thing I remember about Megatokyo is that they were really ahead of the curve when it came to having published editions in bookstores. I wonder how successful that comic would have been today if the author didn't have such a lovely work ethic.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oBx7Jg4m-o

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
While we're still on Monster Pop/Monsterkind (and X-Men too), I feel like the big issue about those comics is that they feel like stories about racism from people who have never really experienced racism as anything other than an abstract concept taught in liberal arts courses. I'd really like to see a comic about that stuff that handles those topics more in depth than fantasy college educated white people saying "racism is bad"

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

I might read the end, have I missed anything since the worthless non-chapter of nothing but black panels that contributed nothing to the story whatsoever?

Jimmy hosed a camel.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Is Homestuck really not done? I decided a few years ago that I was going to stop reading and wait to marathon the rest after it was all finished, and they're still roughly at the same place I left off at? I'm not even sure what Hussie has been doing these days; it feels like the constant drawn-out pauses killed Homestuck's popularity and momentum.

While I'm on impenetrable comics constantly on the verge of ending, what's up with Sluggy Freelance?

HorseRenoir fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Mar 29, 2016

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Pavlov posted:

This comic is like 50% superfluous panels.

If the author is going to crib from Homestuck, the least they could do is cut the comic's length in half and turn some of these 10-page sequences where nothing happens into some loving gifs

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/ACT7.html

loving finally

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Homestuck is the greatest, most important comic that I would not recommend to anyone

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

having some demonstrative characters who clearly give a poo poo about what's going on is p key to making a story great, but some kid's epic fantasy comic is almost certainly not a great work capable of selling any of that, and a lotta comics out there go with the drama equivalent of the slasher movie bimbo who can't go three steps without tripping over something. there's not really a good way to fail at writing sympathetic characters but there's at least one profoundly obnoxious way.

also if you're loving with like Vattu here in favor of... that thing I will fight you

I have to second this. I don't have an issue with sentimentality, but I think a lot of people are going overboard with it these days, to the point that the characters feel equally unrealistic in the opposite direction. When I see characters become nervous wrecks at the drop of a pin it doesn't make me emotionally invested in the story, it just makes me think the author gets all their examples of human interaction from pirated episodes of Steven Universe and is just using cheap melodrama as a substitute for character writing.

That Neokosmos comic that's been posted here a bunch of times is a prime example of what I'm talking about; the main character's first response to everything is to mope and cry and it makes him completely irritating. In general, I feel like that comic apes Homestuck and Steven Universe really shamelessly while not really understanding why either works.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

The Ayshkerbundy posted:

The co-creators of Neo-Kosmos actually have worked on homestuck (Shelby Cragg, did Calliope's art) and Steven Universe (Amber Rogers, storyboard revisionist) respectively.

That makes a lot of sense, as it feels like the authors know how to copy a lot of superficial stylistic details from those things perfectly, but they completely lack an understanding of the fundamentals that make HS and SU appealing that would come from actually being in the writers' seat.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
That comic has one of the worst cases of decompression I've ever seen. I get that they're trying to go for a storyboard format, but even real animation storyboards are less spaced out than this. They devote a full page to every individual line of dialogue or slight body movement, regardless of how minor or inconsequential it is. It's one thing if you want to emphasize than an important action is happening by spreading it across several pages, but the effect is used so constantly that you could probably shave the comic's page total by more than half if they simply converted these sequences into animated gifs. I'm honestly thinking of dropping the comic because I can't take another sequence where I have to click through 30 pages for two lines of dialogue and a simple action.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
I know people here are super paranoid about not resembling the byob thread but it's seriously okay to be critical about comics sometimes and have arguments about things. It certainly makes the thread more readable than the fifty billionth page in a row about "poppy/monster pulse updated and it was good"

I think GTH's main crime is just being mediocre, poorly paced, and derivative. I get the complaints of pandering, not in the sense that there's some sort of cynical attempt to appeal to a demographic, but in the sense that it feels like the author looked at a bunch of things that were already popular and then made a pastiche of them without any real depth/appeal beyond looking to similar to Cucumber Quest etc.

Also caring about what a bunch of nerds in a secluded thread of a pay-to-view forum think of your comic, and buying an account to tell them to stop discussing it is not a good look imo

e: re: labels, I get why some people like using them and coining new ones, but I feel like obsessively labeling and categorizing people into increasingly specific boxes usually just turns into a bunch of anal hair-splitting and otherization. I feel like having super-specific labels for everything misrepresents issues of identity as a series of boxes/requirements you can check instead of a fluid, complex, ambiguous thing that's different for everybody. It is in fact okay to just have normal conversations about your feelings without having to put yourself through a sorting machine.

HorseRenoir fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jun 15, 2016

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Obviously Minna isn't racist towards Chinese, but lol at how tone-deaf Europeans can be about race sometimes

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
double lol, just realized that she changed the line from "ching-chong" to "ching-ling" and blamed the audience for not understanding that this is just playful ribbing in Finland instead of actually apologizing :psyduck:

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Fangz posted:

Oh, come the gently caress on, the joke in this entire page is basically that these characters are entirely ignorant of Chinese and indeed much of the outside world. I don't know what perspective you think the author is condoning here.

And yeah I'd but it down on a cultural difference. It's an unfortunate wording for an US audience which the author has wisely toned down, but not everywhere is America and it's pretty clear nothing was meant by it other than 'Emil is an idiot and Mikkel is not'.

I don't think the issue is that "ching chong china talk" was used, but that her reaction was to miss the point entirely and respond with "well ching chong china talk is funny in Finland :colbert:"

The "well it's a different culture" excuse is such bullshit to me, especially when it's a stereotype as cartoonishly racist as depicting Chinese with buck teeth and pointy hats. The Dutch celebrate Zwarte Piet but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to dress in blackface, it just means Dutch culture is lovely and racist

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

A Wizard of Goatse posted:

Avshalom is the only good poster and I wonder what people who feel the need to trumpet their comic book outrage or counter-outrage to, like, the internet generally, anyone who has anything to do with the comic exclusive, think they look like to other people.

god forbid we ever react to anything without five layers of detached irony

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Cat Mattress posted:

The perception of what is offensive depends a lot on the kind of upbringing you had so it's easy to not realize that something is terribly racist if you never got to see people telling you that indeed it is racist. This is an example of what is called "being sheltered". The Internet abolishing boundaries, so here you go using stuff that you had no idea was deeply offensive, because you had never met anyone who had been offended by it IRL, and suddenly you're told that actually it's very offensive. Many perceive that as an attack on their character (not: their characters) and so they react overly defensively instead of just going "my bad, I didn't realize".

And of course, this is always the opportunity for a smug American to pontificate about how Europeans are incredibly more racist than them, because Zwarte Piete.


I don't think anyone's under the impression that America isn't racist as gently caress. I'm just really tired of Europeans using aloofness to excuse casual racism (aka the Humon defense)

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
I'm happy that fka Campbell is still alive but I'm beyond done with their attempts to turn their mental illness into some bizarre off-putting performance art project. It's hard to sympathize with someone who keeps intentionally burning bridges and driving people away instead of getting help.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
We Bare Bears was based on a webcomic http://thethreebarebears.blogspot.com/

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
I enjoy Shiga's stuff but he doesn't really write stories, just elaborate brain puzzles about cum knives

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Goodbye to Halos is pretty bad. Even beyond the fact that it cribs so heavily from Cucumber Quest and a bunch of other stuff in vogue with the tumblr webcomic crowd, the author seems totally allergic to letting conflict or anything interesting happen at all. It feels like any interesting emotional beats are either glossed over or skipped entirely because the author is too enamored with her OCs and the idea of a "queer-positive" story to allow actual drama to occur

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Nuns with Guns posted:

I read through the comic today and like... some kind of conflict is happening now? but it took over 100 pages to get close to having an ongoing plot and that doesn't hook me in at all

There's finally a plot now but it just feels like a generic shonen conflict without any emotional depth to make it potent. The author could've used the past 100 pages to develop interesting and emotionally complex characters but nope

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

Gutter Owl posted:

I disagree? From where I'm standing, the stakes seem pretty drat clear and big and well-established.

Like, let's gloss over the generic fantasy worldbuilding poo poo for a sec, because I do think it's kinda trite and overlabored and overburdened with exposition. K6BD it ain't. But it's honestly not important*.

But aside from that, the emotional core is "Queer kid finds queer enclave. Queer kid finally has breathing room and support network to pick through and patch up their mental damage. Outside force threatens to take that away." That's a pretty loving relevant conflict for a lot of LGBT folks. And I feel like the past 100-odd pages have been setting up the stakes to be lost.

And I think Val needed...well, some percentage of those 100 pages to really explore what that means to us weird gay kids. (I say "kids" and "us" like I'm not knocking on 30, but I was there not too long ago.) Like, this sort of enclave-building, chosen-family poo poo is a big part of the modern gay/trans experience that you really don't see in media? So it's both interesting and validating that Halla spends a good chunk of time painting what that looks like in detail, and why it's so meaningful and precious to Fenic and folks like her.

I mean, I relate to this poo poo. I called it "college," and "the first few years after transitioning," myself.

Call it Tumblrina poo poo if you gotta? But Tumblrina poo poo is basically just Portland poo poo is basically just San Francisco poo poo is basically the story of gay people having to figure out what community and relationships and mental health are from scratch, basically since the days when the Mattachine Society and the Daughters of Bilitis were a thing.

So yeah, I think the stakes are pretty evident, and pretty significant, and honestly the comic needed that time to build up and confirm to its weird queer kid audience that, yes, this is a story about y'all, and the poo poo y'all hold dear, and the poo poo y'all are scared of?

My problem is that Val doesn't actually do any of this in the comic. The main character's old life and backstory is completely glossed over, yet the author also expects you to intuitively know that her old life was really bad even though nothing shown through flashbacks or exposition shows that as the case. But if the author doesn't want to focus on the struggle and instead wants to make a story about building a new life in a queer community, that's fine! But she doesn't do that either. She just skips from "main character is unsure of her own identity" straight to "main character is out of the closet and fully integrated in a queer community" without showing any of the steps in between. Again, the author just glosses over these things but expects the readers to just know what that process is like, so they can still care about the main character's story and her community and what's at stake for her without actually putting in any of the legwork.

Obviously for any media targeted towards a niche audience there's going to be certain things left untold that the intended audience is expected to be familiar with, but this is lazy storytelling and it flattens the queer experience into one universal story that all queer people are expected to inherently "know". As a queer man who couldn't directly relate to what was going on in the comic, I found Val's assertion that "this is a queer comic for queer people and if you don't like it it's probably because you're not queer enough to get it" to be really patronizing and insulting. If storytelling isn't the main focus, but telling a detailed, personal queer story isn't happening either, then what's left? A giant in-joke for Val and her circle of friends to point at and say "yeah it do be like that sometimes"? Maybe Val should have just converted this comic into a tumblr RP blog if she wasn't interested in saying anything beyond writing light fluff about her OCs.

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug

GlyphGryph posted:

Does anyone here still read Sluggy Freelance? It finally feels like its all building towards a finale, and the run of one of the oldest webcomics will be over, and the author has basically confirmed that we are in the last stretch... although it might take a year or two.

hasn't it been "all building towards a finale" for like five years now

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
Is he seriously still working on Prequel? I feel like that entire subgenre of MSPA and its lookalikes lost its relevance after Homestuck went on that huge hiatus and sputtered out near the end.

Are they still working on the Kickstarter game and do people even care anymore?

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
That Homestuck kickstarter is one of the most disastrous comic crowdfunding projects I've seen in a while, in terms of being an unruly fiasco that killed off interest in the comic it was based on

HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
I'm so tired of every trendy tumblr artist blatantly jacking Steven Universe's artstyle. It's gotten to the point where I've actually seen a few artists rip off character designs wholesale from the show. I know every popular thing has its imitators but the sheer amount of SU clones is unreal

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HorseRenoir
Dec 25, 2011



Pillbug
imagine being paranoid about liking furry poo poo in t.y.o.o.l 2017

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