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extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR
This will probably be very fun but you can bet your money you gave them two years ago that the second delay in July won't be the last, this will be a pretty solid MMO in 2017. Then in 2018 Shroud of the Avatar will be fleshed out, making all of the money I spent in 2013 more valuable than BitCoins!!!

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extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR
If I didn't look at my DAoC shirt like once a month and think about the old times I would've refunded this by now. These classes look cool but are they really trying to animate and balance like 45 classes? Looks like they could cut half of these out and have a more reasonable time trying to get the game out within two years of their goals.

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR
When is beta 2 estimated for? I looked at their page and saw a picture of a beard glasses guy holding a nerf crossbow at work only to reflect on how it cost probably about what I contributed to this video game that isn't ready for me to beta test yet three years later. I will try to keep my posts here 50 percent more optimistic than the Shroud of The Avatar thread, only because if both fail I will look and feel very dumb.

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

ExHumus posted:

We have no estimate for Beta 2 access atm. Beta 1 is scheduled for before the end of winter. The game is still in Alpha. The access that Beta 1 testers have now is not full access, it is a compromise because Beta has been significantly delayed.

End of winter...so even if beta 2 began 3 months after beta 1 ends, beta 2 would still be two years behind? How is this even possible to do with rich guy funding and another 4 million or something from the public?


Alexander DeLarge posted:

I don't follow this very well but is a Q2 2017 release looking likely?


At this rate that is literally when beta 2 will begin. Maybe a Christmas 2018 release?

edit

I'll add nice words: This game has like 45 really cool looking classes, but I definitely would rather have 20 sooner than 45 later. Seems like a huge task. Also is there a general agreement that we're playing Vikings or are you guys some kind of furries?

extra stout fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 19, 2016

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Calibrex posted:

Per one of the online scheduled twitch streaming sessions, Max answered this:

Q: is CU a pure PvP game or any PvE elements?
A: RvR, there is a small amount of PvE elements but no traditional quests or PvE progression.

A follow-up comment was something about how just about everything will be revolving around PvP.

To be fair this has been openly their plan for the whole project as far as I'm aware. I agree (with the guy who mentioned friends not wanting to always PVP) though the best idea might have been to still have plenty of monsters/animals to kill purely for mats, and then bosses in caves and stuff to have mini-raids, again for rarer crafting mats. I think removing traditional grind quests, and grinding levels is fine and maybe even a great idea, but if the server or your computer is lagging from the battle getting too big...is there anything else really worth a monthly fee leftover? We'll find out!

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Evernoob posted:

I get weekly CU updates in my mail, which are always a wall of text with some art drawings... but very little progress I get to experience myself.
I was really hoping for a 2015/2016 release when I backed the Kickstarter in 2012, but I'm afraid it will take another year at least.

So I decided no longer to read or care about the game, and then (hopefully) get pleasantly surprised when it finally does release.


(the thing is also that in the past 4 years my interest in fantasy MMO's has completely evaporated due to all the poo poo that has been released in those years)

The emails from both SoTA and Camelot Unchained feel like I have a son I sent to an expensive college and he's trying to justify me not cutting the checks I mail but I keep sending them not because I'm convinced but because I have pity and no other option than have the loving loser live with me again, it's easier to nod my head and go 'one day he might just end up a man after all'

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Usenet Magic-User posted:

yeah, this year has been tougher than others. MMOs don't even get off the ground anymore.

the 2009-2014~ era of the new best mmo ever!! being fun for two months before dying is now the new thing to get nostalgic about lmao

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

YOTC posted:

I went back to it a bit ago to see it's state and the new stuff is actually pretty neat. Feels more like a Kotor game that has mmo stuff on the side than a mmo though

If you're given an enjoyable product within three years of giving them your money consider me extremely jealous of your decision (this is not trolling, if we don't find something, even negative to post about in this thread before the next actual content update for this game the thread will get knocked into the archives before it releases)

edit


ESTIMATED DELIVERY:
Dec 2015

extra stout fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Jun 22, 2016

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Anoia posted:

It's been so long I forgot what faction goons are supposed to one day be playing.

Though really I think we should wait, see which way the pubbie wind blows, and then pick the one that'll enrage them best.

Change the thread title to Software Development Chained. I'm still excited for this game but yeah, it is crawling.I imagine the goon direction will be mostly the new Midgard, dwarves and vikings and poo poo, with a smaller group going to the human faction, and like two people who will never admit it going to play the cat people race.

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Orv posted:

What is up with pre-alpha animations?

Estimated delivery of Beta 2 Access: June 2015.

the problem is being in pre-alpha 15 months after you were supposed to be in beta two

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Pavlov posted:

As a programmer, here's a software development secret: Whenever a dev tells you an estimated release date that isn't something incredibly routine, add 50% extra time to whatever they say, and don't expect it before that. Underestimating development time is like a running joke in the industry.

That said this game is still doing poorly even under that adjusted estimate. That's a sign of actual mismanagement, not just the normal time bloat.

I've seen this posted before, so essentially what you did was make sure we all know you're a programmer and then agree I am right. As a consumer: Add that 50 percent extra to your guess you give me when you're asking for cash. It's like a cop telling you the ticket will only be 30 dollars then acting shocked... I thought everyone knew about the 100 dollar state surcharge??? Oh well, glad you didn't go to court! Thanks for the 130 :)

extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

If you agree the game is way behind schedule, what was your post intended to do? If the devs themselves posted it, I would once again ask: If this is a known problem in game development, why not just set the estimated release date to January 2017 when typing up the kickstarter?

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extra stout
Feb 24, 2005

ISILDUR's ERR

Pavlov posted:

Agreeing with you. It's not an excuse for devs, it's a warning to people listening to them. Also that this game's devs happen to be worse at something the industry is already bad at.

But if you really want to know why this happens, there's a few reasons. One is that a large part of making software is dealing with unexpected complications. When a dev gives an estimate, they're usually only accounting for the things they know have to be done for a project. But things almost always go wrong somewhere in software development. Not enough people are used to budgeting time and expenses for unexpected difficulties though. With some projects, you're not even certain of everything that needs to be included in your finished work, because the logic and interactions get complex enough that nobody's going to fully understand it until they've spent days and weeks arranging all the pieces. That's why you'll sometimes see games that go through massive mechanical changes late into development. The way all those mechanics work together as a whole wasn't obvious until they had them all laid out in front of them.

Also pretty much what malhavok said. It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission. Especially with kickstarters, where you're essentially selling promises to people.

I agree with you, I'm a big sweaty idiot and didn't mean to overreact to your other post, also despite how terribly behind this game is, how awful the development and openness with the donors has been, I still feel this game at least has the potential to end up being something you really dive into and enjoy, I just wish it wasn't going to be in beta state still in 2017. The fact that Shroud of The Avatar doesn't offer refunds but Camelot does kind of says it all for me. The game I am 100 percent sure I regret giving even 30 bucks to knows it can't afford refunds, Camelot knows that even if they lose all of the most impatient donors they still have a shot at a success ultimately. Especially when you consider the risk of refunding on a game that's still got a coin toss chance of being playable, those people then might end up coming back, spending 50$ or whatever and 15$ a month with no discounts and no perks.

edit

Do we have any posters with connections to the team? Forums are never effective ways of getting at devs of big or even medium games, but I'd really like to know if they would at least have a public conversation about cutting the launch goals of this game to be whatever the absolute minimum number of classes and races were promised for launch. Keep all the lore and work for the other ones, just set it for literally 2018/2019 almost no one would prefer to wait longer for the 39th class or the 19th race when most of us will play two of them.

extra stout fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Sep 15, 2016

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