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Bigsteve posted:Make it cause you want to make a good movie not just so Marvel can't get the rights back. Or, if you're going to do it so that Marvel can't get the rights back, just let your indie director make his weirdo movie. It's not like it could have performed worse than what they ended up with. Use it as an excuse to make an actual mid-budget superhero movie.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:35
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Uncle Boogeyman posted:well, except Oskar Schindler You can't save 'em all.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:36
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Drifter posted:You can't save 'em all. New tagline for Man of Steel 2?
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Aug 18, 2015 20:37
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Man of Steel 2: look, he clearly feels bad about all this stuff.Bigsteve posted:He only truley feels loss when he kills Zod. Yeah he is pissed before that but with the death of Zod Krypon is gone. Then he become Superman as we know him, he realised he will do anything to save earth. Then roll credits. He truly feels loss when he finally has the time to let all the stuff sink in. He's been fighting literally while all that poo poo is going on. Are you upset that he only cries once nobody's punching and kicking him and trying to kill the world?
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Aug 18, 2015 20:38
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What's odd to me is that anyone at Fox thought that the "One Year Later" thing was going to work. You can hear the narrative gears grinding.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:43
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:What's odd to me is that anyone at Fox thought that the "One Year Later" thing was going to work. You can hear the narrative gears grinding. It's really funny and audacious. It plays like a lovely fan edit where the person hated the last half of the movie so they cut back in some unfinished or deleted scenes instead.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:44
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LesterGroans posted:It plays like a lovely fan edit where the person hated the last half of the movie so they cut back in some unfinished or deleted scenes instead. LOL that's actually what happened, good call
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Aug 18, 2015 20:45
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:LOL that's actually what happened haha you're right. It's super weird for a movie studio to come off like an angry, amateur fan-editor, but here we are.
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Aug 18, 2015 20:46
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Well, my understanding as to what happened was that Fox waited until the last possible second until they had to put something together. They didn't really want to do it, but they didn't want to give the rights back either. So they hastily put something together with basically a freshman director and, surprise surprise, it blew up in their faces. The cast weren't allowed to read the comics or anything at all and Trank basically did 'Chronicle 2'. I still think the majority of the blame lays on Fox's shoulders. They approved the script and concept (probably because it was the only thing they had and didn't want to lose the rights). Then they got big dreams of building some sort of franchise out of it like X-Men along with its 'darker' themes. Then they realized this was never going to happen, they poo poo themselves. They tried to fire him, but couldn't find anyone to replace him. And then they cut the ever-loving crap out of the movie so badly it is actually missing a second act. It is 2/3rds of a movie. And of course, the samurai cop wig on poor Kate Mara. Trank may have been an rear end in a top hat, but Fox deserves most of the blame in my opinion. The film is on track to be the worst flop in superhero films since 'Catwoman'. Audiences have a short memory, yes, but this is the type of poo poo that sticks in people's minds. Has a movie that has done this horribly ever gotten a sequel? I can't think of any. I can think of movies where sequels were planned, and then canceled because they failed miserably or under preformed. And how can you follow up the biggest bomb in recent history? That isn't something you forget. According to Box Office Mojo, Fantastic Four has made 43 million in 11 days. Compare that to the 'Green Lantern' which made 91 million by this point. And reminder, Green Lantern made $20 million more in its theatrical run, bringing the total to around $116 million. And DC is waiting until 2020 to reboot the character. That's nearly a decade and they're still probably hesitant about it. Fantastic Four is going to do worse than that and has to make a movie sooner. Their whole mentality leading up to this point was 'pshht, audiences will eat this capeshit up no matter what  ' when that clearly wasn't the case. You don't fall off by 70% unless you are fading into the sweet goodnight. I guess Fox could just make some cheap, horrible CGI piece of poo poo and just release it for international audiences and make it like Transformers or something. But the only nostalgia audiences have for Fantastic Four are really lovely movies and one of the worst box office bombs of the superhero era. I really do think the hopes of making it into a franchise or anything but a series of ashcan films is dead at this point. Even if Marvel do get the rights back, the well is still poisoned.
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Aug 19, 2015 02:29
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Dapper Dan posted:The cast weren't allowed to read the comics or anything at all I'm going to say this wasn't the case, both because there's no way this could be enforced in any way, but also because I remember an interview with Kate Mara where she said she hadn't read any of the comics, considered reading them, and decided not to since she was just going to base her performance on the script, which I feel is entirely appropriate.
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Aug 19, 2015 03:17
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Chairman Capone posted:I'm going to say this wasn't the case, both because there's no way this could be enforced in any way, but also because I remember an interview with Kate Mara where she said she hadn't read any of the comics, considered reading them, and decided not to since she was just going to base her performance on the script, which I feel is entirely appropriate. Well, they were told not to read them because it would be pointless since they wouldn't be used for anything in the movie. They were doing their own version. Not allowed is more extreme, it just didn't matter if they read them or not.
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Aug 19, 2015 04:08
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oldpainless posted:And according to Ebert, The Brown Bunny. Holy poo poo I never heard of that. quote:Roger Ebert called the film "the worst in the history of Cannes," to which Vincent Gallo responded that Ebert was a "fat pig with the physique of a slave trader." Ebert paraphrased a remark of Winston Churchill and responded that "Although I am fat, one day I will be thin, but Mr. Gallo will still have been the director of 'The Brown Bunny.'" Gallo then put a hex on Ebert's colon, to which Ebert responded that "even my colonoscopy was more entertaining than his film." Calico Heart posted:Eh, while that's true I actually find that the characters, their interactions and the world are super cool, so in the end I actually cared about the stakes way more than any other Marvel movie. She's an inverse Bond? I totally agree with the rest of your post, I'm honestly getting sick of Marvel's lukewarm formula. I didn't see Avengers 2 and probably never will, and even for their better-looking stuff I wait for redbox half the time. Tighten up the stories, leave 1 minor plot thread hanging if you must, then add in a sequel hook in mid-credits. That's it. got any sevens fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 04:18
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Sir Kodiak posted:I'm really curious what the group did to take him down in the original version of the movie, before they replaced it with that godawful Planet Zero segment. They chased him in a flying car.
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Aug 19, 2015 04:58
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Robot Style posted:They chased him in a flying car. "Oh man, this car is FANTASTIC!"
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Aug 19, 2015 05:15
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A superior Fantastic Four movie has already been done (with a sequel on the way.) It was called "The Incredibles." Marvel Studios is probably happy to wash their hands of the property at this point. They've got enough characters to take the place of say Reed Richards. Worst part about the situation is the idiots who think Marvel produced this crap.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:17
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CaveGrinch posted:
Well that and they can't touch Galactus or a whole bunch of cosmic stuff. I think he'd honestly be a better bad guy for this Phase 3 stuff than Thanos.
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Aug 19, 2015 05:19
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Jonny_Rocket posted:You must not be familiar with the Fantastic Four then. The Fantastic Four has pretty great villains like Galactus, Kang the Conqueror, Annihilus and Super Skrull, besides Dr. Doom. As an aside, I think you just proved what someone said about the Fantastic Four: they have only two potential gets-butts-in-seats stories: their origin story and Galactus/Silver Surfer. Outside Galactus, none of those other villains would elicit anything other than a  reaction in most people. Superhero movies attract people with their villain as much as their hero, and the FF property lacks a variety of villains that interest your audience. You've got Doom and Galactus. The way FF shakes out reminds me a lot of Green Lantern, film wise. A property that has cache within a niche, but niche enough that the mainstream audiences doesn't have much built-in interest in it.
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Aug 19, 2015 09:41
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MisterBibs posted:As an aside, I think you just proved what someone said about the Fantastic Four: they have only two potential gets-butts-in-seats stories: their origin story and Galactus/Silver Surfer. You are seriously overestimating how much mainstream audiences know or care about comics.
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Aug 19, 2015 09:45
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WEIRD goddamn news guys. As much as we poo poo on Trank and the script, the original script for the movie ACTUALLY WAS zany and fun; http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/08/18/what-was-fantastic-four-like-before-simon-kinberg Goddamn Moleman and a Flying loving car were originally in this morbid turd. I mean, it still sounds like a train wreck, but at least it woulda been an interesting one 
Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 09:45
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You are seriously overestimating how much mainstream audiences know or care about comics. That wasn't a statement about how iconic or popular their rogues gallery was, it's about how well they would be received by the public in a movie. And it's a good point, people will probably go and see a movie with Galactus as the villain because he's at the very least interesting, provided you don't turn him into a cloud. But I can't imagine anybody is going to see Blaastar The Living Bomb in a trailer and go "Oh man, I need to see this!" Of course, this perspective hinges on whether you accept that some characters have inherent qualities that others lack and it's not just a matter of execution in the adaptation.
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Aug 19, 2015 09:51
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:You are seriously overestimating how much mainstream audiences know or care about comics. Exactly my point. They don't know or care about the comics, they know the bits and pieces that they've learned from base cultural osmosis. What little they know, they expect. With regards to Fantastic Four, you're at max Hey This Movie Might Interest You if you've got either Doom or Galactus being the bad guy. You think this movie flopped? Imagine trying to sell an audience on The Fantastic Four Fight The Mole Man. Fantastic Four is a property that doesn't have strong hooks into popular culture in the best of cases (Doom or Galactus being the Bad Guy), is my point.
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Aug 19, 2015 10:13
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And its a solid point, I mean look at loving Guardians of the Galaxy. Mainstream movie goers didn't know diddly dick about them or what villains they fought and look at the colossal bomb and failure that was. People just arent going to waste their time with characters they don't know and already love.
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Aug 19, 2015 10:47
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Pirate Jet posted:This is like the fifth time this article has been posted and it's just as stupid as the first. Yeah, most of the film's stars were handpicked by Trank himself and most of them had worked with him before, they were always on board with his vision. From all accounts they weren't fans of the Fantastic Four comics anyway so the only tone they knew was the tone set by Trank. But that's not to say that stuff like that doesn't happen in other projects. My go-to example again is Super Mario Bros film where the cast were hired on the strength of one script and when they turned up for work they were presented with a completely different, darker script which had been hastily commissioned by the new directors. Sometimes directors really do push a gloomy tone onto a production. Bigsteve posted:It's the zero possibility of them dying. Reason I like Jackie Chan more than Bruce Lee is that in his fights Jackie is one step away from getting his rear end kicked. Superman is Bruce Lee. So far ahead that he is unstoppable. That's why Indiana Jones and John McClaine were such great action heroes: the got the absolute poo poo kicked out of them but they kept fighting back and eventually won over incredible odds. To be fair they tried really really hard to push MoS into that territory as Megaman's Jockstrap pointed out but it's still really difficult to get an audience to identify with a nigh-invulnerable super strong guy who can fly like they'll identify with wisecrackin' Indy or John McClaine. Similarly I don't really mourn the loss of those scenes in Fant4stic where The Thing was killing all those enemy combatants for the military. Oh hey a bulletproof rock guy is fighting some dudes with guns, oh jeez I hope he'll be okay.  Athletic Footjob posted:No one's gay for Moleman.  Blackchamber posted:And its a solid point, I mean look at loving Guardians of the Galaxy. Mainstream movie goers didn't know diddly dick about them or what villains they fought and look at the colossal bomb and failure that was. People just arent going to waste their time with characters they don't know and already love. To cement this even further, Ronan the Accuser was still a lovely forgettable villain who could have been swapped out for any number of other Marvel villains without affecting the massive success of the film in any significant way. Edit: Strange Matter posted:EDIT: I was super disappointed when the weirdo villain in Corman's FF movie was "the Jeweler" when he was obviously Mole Man. Ha, I had the same reaction. Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 11:54
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I didn't know a single person who knew who "Ultron" was either, but they still all were pumped to see Avengers 2. Fake edit: Most people don't know who the gently caress Thanos is, but that hasn't stopped Marvel from pumping him up for almost 3 movies.
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Aug 19, 2015 12:41
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Calico Heart posted:WEIRD goddamn news guys. As much as we poo poo on Trank and the script, the original script for the movie ACTUALLY WAS zany and fun;
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Aug 19, 2015 13:47
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MisterBibs posted:Exactly my point. They don't know or care about the comics, they know the bits and pieces that they've learned from base cultural osmosis. What little they know, they expect. With regards to Fantastic Four, you're at max Hey This Movie Might Interest You if you've got either Doom or Galactus being the bad guy. You think this movie flopped? Imagine trying to sell an audience on The Fantastic Four Fight The Mole Man. I think he was trying to say that most people don't even care for Galactus, such is his general obscurity. Or Doom.
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Aug 19, 2015 16:46
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Fake edit: Most people don't know who the gently caress Thanos is, but that hasn't stopped Marvel from pumping him up for almost 3 movies. My roommate has seen every marvel film in theatres since Avengers, he's pretty into the whole thing, but he has no comic book knowledge whatsoever. Every so often he'll ask me "Whats the deal with this Thanos guy again?", and I try to explain but his eyes glaze over and he just can't force himself to pay attention. And this is a guy who will be there on opening night for Infinity War. These movies aren't successful because comic book nerds love them, its because guys like my roommate can enjoy them without having to absorb 50+ years of comics history first. There is no villain from comics outside of maybe The Joker that mainstream audiences really give a poo poo about one way or the other. Moleman or Galactus or Doom, its irrelevant as long as its done well. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 17:06
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Basebf555 posted:My roommate has seen every marvel film in theatres since Avengers, he's pretty into the whole thing, but he has no comic book knowledge whatsoever. Your friend is enjoying the movies wrong hth.
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Aug 19, 2015 17:16
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oldpainless posted:Your friend is enjoying the movies wrong hth. I mean, I agree with you but it is what it is. There a ton of people like him that are going to see these movies and they don't give a poo poo about the backgrounds of obscure characters as long as the movie is fun to watch.
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Aug 19, 2015 17:20
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Where do you and your roommate live? I'll come over and we can watch the movies and then make one of our own.
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Aug 19, 2015 17:31
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Green lantern was a good movie but they picked the worst way to portray the villain. This movie is most likely a good example of the episode of family guy "Brian Griffin's House of Payne". "Brian's serious drama is turned into a sitcom, bringing in a live studio audience as well as a chimpanzee, and renaming it Class Holes. When Brian objects to the changes, the producers remind him of what he had tried to achieve for many years—his own television show—and threaten him with unemployment if he objects to those changes." Tenzarin fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 19, 2015 |
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Aug 19, 2015 17:53
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Tenzarin posted:Green lantern was a good movie but they picked the worst way to portray the villain. Yeah it was kind of weird how they made him the central character.
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Aug 19, 2015 17:56
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MisterBibs posted:As an aside, I think you just proved what someone said about the Fantastic Four: they have only two potential gets-butts-in-seats stories: their origin story and Galactus/Silver Surfer. I think one thing with some comic book movies is that it's still sort of a niche for some audiences that tell them they will or won't be into it. The following is a bit hard for me to articulate, but I'll try: I think with some comic book movies, before the big 'boom' really hit with the Marvel movies, they were maybe sold more easily as SF or action films rather than being extremely pushed as comic book properties. Iron Man, Hulk, even Thor and X-Men could be promoted and made as less superhero comic book films and more just sci-fi actioners, as opposed to something like Superman, Batman and Spider-Man. Selling the property as a SF or action movie rather than a comic book movie perhaps makes the sale go down a little easier to wider audiences. I sort of think that's one issue with the Trank FF. They were sort of stripping out the comic bookiness of the property and trying to make it a more an all-around SF film. Instead of a comic book movie that is trying to redecorate itself as a sci-fi or action film in order to appeal to wider audiences who don't care about comic book characters, it seemed like it was a sci-fi movie that someone was trying to push superhero motifs to fit in with the new normal of comic book movies being successful and accepted. In a lot of ways, though, the more I think of it the more it does sort of remind me of something like an 80s SF movie, which given the Cronenberg talk I guess makes some sense.
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Aug 19, 2015 19:46
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JediTalentAgent posted:Instead of a comic book movie that is trying to redecorate itself as a sci-fi or action film in order to appeal to wider audiences who don't care about comic book characters, it seemed like it was a sci-fi movie that someone was trying to push superhero motifs to fit in with the new normal of comic book movies being successful and accepted. Yes, very much so. Even in the good parts of the movie, you can feel it being a comic book adaptation working against it. There's this great horror to Reed, Ben, and Johnny's transformations, then there's Sue turning invisible. No way if it wasn't forced to fit the Fantastic Four mold that she wouldn't have something more evocative.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:10
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Turning invisible can be unsettling done right. Like the character in Misfits who does it without realising, going from no one seeing him because he's a spergy weirdo to literally no one seeing him at all.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:22
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I think even Marvel is still afraid of its movies being seen as too comic-booky, especially when it might be especially apparent. I can't keep track of how many times I've seen press releases and reviews talk about how the Winter Soldier was "a 70's political conspiracy movie" when it really has nothing of the sort, or Ant-Man being repeatedly talked about as "a heist movie", GOTG as a space opera homage to Star Wars, Thor as a mythic fantasy epic, the first Captain America as a WWII movie, etc. And at least in the case of Ant-Man a ton of the marketing revolved around them commenting on the dumb name (even using lines that weren't in the actual movie). Similarly even The Dark Knight, probably the most "serious" as well as most critically regarded comic movie, I remember being talked up on how it was inspired by Heat and other crime dramas.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:34
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I hate when they do that. Like I'm watching arrow and in season 1 they have a character go "hey I wonder what they should call this crazy vigilante...Green Arrow?" and you got green arrow saying: "lame "
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Aug 19, 2015 21:38
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massive spider posted:Turning invisible can be unsettling done right. Like the character in Misfits who does it without realising, going from no one seeing him because he's a spergy weirdo to literally no one seeing him at all. Sure, but it's not really body horror.
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Aug 19, 2015 21:50
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could be if you made the person disappear layer by layer and in unequal ways.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:00
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I'm not saying that Slim Goodbody isn't creepy, just think it's a different level than Reed waking up stretched out on a rack. At the very least, it doesn't come across in the movie itself as being of a piece with the other guys.
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Aug 19, 2015 22:02
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