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computer parts posted:[citation needed] http://www.amazon.com/Hollywood-Economist-2-0-Financial-Reality/dp/1612190502/counting
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Aug 10, 2015 15:44
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MinibarMatchman posted:most people who watch FF films will have never known about current rear end in a top hat reed richards or anything else Reed's always been a prick.
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Aug 10, 2015 15:59
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Reed's always been a prick. I've never been heavily into FF, but I saw that cartoon with the robot back in the day, and probably picked up a comic book or two, and my impression of Reed was always "absent-minded scientist". Like he'd forget Sue's birthday and keep leaving the negative zone portal open. One of his strongest defining traits was that he was always trying to find a cure for Ben, though, so "prick" is probably too strong.
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Aug 10, 2015 16:09
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Nobody knows anything about the FF but comic book geeks. Anyway, Hollywood just made money with a movie about frigging Ant Man, and had a huge hit with a raccoon and a tree starring . The nuances of the comic book source material are the least relevant thing to anything.
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Aug 10, 2015 16:15
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The depiction of Reed has always been much more ambiguous than that.
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Aug 10, 2015 16:17
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First half was pretty good, but that second half was a real train wreck besides a couple of scenes, e.g. Reed fighting in the jungle (less than a minute), and Doom killing everyone (a bit longer). Though agreed, Sue not going on the mission did bother me. She's the only character who isn't kind of an rear end in a top hat. Not sure who posted it in the comics thread but when Reed asks her "You ever wonder what life would have been like if you hadn't come to that science fair?" - like yeah, "what would it have been like if you guys hadn't irresponsibly destroyed everything?"
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Aug 10, 2015 16:37
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Reed's always been a prick. I can't see Miles Teller playing the kind of prick that he was, though. The Venture Brothers nailed that with Professor Impossible.
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Aug 10, 2015 17:20
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Reed's always been a prick. Case in point: Fantastic Four in: The Way It All Began, a 1967 cartoon adaptation of the origin story - with the detail that the whole thing is told from Reed's perspective, with self-serving narration where he glosses over such things as breaking into Doom's lab in college and sneaking a look at his notes. "I just wanted to say hello." Yeah right.
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Aug 10, 2015 18:18
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Or like how people like to say he's the father figure of the family. How, exactly? None of them are his kids. Ben is a peer. Johnny is a "kid" but Reed has married his sister, who's merely a few years older. He may be a genius but the character is good because Lee and Kirby never just said anything and everything he did was okay because he's "Dad". In fact one of the things that made FF so revolutionary (like Spider-Man) was that the characters change over time. This is why you don't have Flash Thompson pushing Peter Parker around still 40 years later.
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Aug 10, 2015 18:40
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Worthwhile discussion by these two that most people love or hate, on what Trank may have truly been aiming for, the reshoots and cut content, and what the heck a good Fantastic Four movie would entail plot-wise. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ol2rzuRDAE
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Aug 10, 2015 19:02
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KaiserSchnitzel posted:Honest answer? Kinda true, though I always liked some of the weird mythology extrapolation that Ang Lee did in The Ice Storm. I think there's more depth and novelty to FF than people care to admit, but just because the stories work in the comic book medium doesn't mean it'll work in film, television, videogames, etc. I really agree with your first point though. I think we're years past the public's peak interest in contemporary superhero cinema. Everything after 2012 has evinced measured praise mixed with general anxiety over the lack of risktaking with all these movies. ghostwritingduck posted:I don't think you can say the bubble burst when Age of Ultron just made $1.4 billion this year (3rd highest grossing comic book adaptation ever). The bubble didn't burst exactly, we're just on the the downward slide of consumer interest. The longterm money for these movies is in television syndication. They're like a loving entertainment platform in themselves, and at least one superhero movie will be on every day on major channels forever until you die of ennui or cheetos, whichever comes first. BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 20:59
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I think the consistent success of the Marvel films is deceptive; for the most part audiences have been supporting the good poo poo and ignoring the bad, its just that Marvel went on a ridiculous run without a fuckup. The two most important pieces of that were Thor 2 and Captain America 2. After the success of Avengers, people were going to go see those movies regardless, but if they'd been burned by them that could have slowed the train down quite a bit. Instead both were excellent and well received by both audiences and critics, and the train only picked more speed heading into Age of Ultron. Fantastic Four wasn't riding an Avengers-type wave, it wasn't riding any wave at all. Its a reboot of two films that nobody liked in the first place, two films that people had been burned by just like they could have been by Thor and Captain America. So unless the hype before release was really strong, this thing was going to have a hard time from the start.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:24
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Basebf555 posted:I think the consistent success of the Marvel films is deceptive; for the most part audiences have been supporting the good poo poo and ignoring the bad, its just that Marvel went on a ridiculous run without a fuckup. The two most important pieces of that were Thor 2 and Captain America 2. After the success of Avengers, people were going to go see those movies regardless, but if they'd been burned by them that could have slowed the train down quite a bit. Instead both were excellent and well received by both audiences and critics, and the train only picked more speed heading into Age of Ultron. I don't know anyone that I'd say "loved" Thor 2. I mean there's a reason why Civil War is coming two years after Winter Soldier and Thor 3 is coming four years after Thor 2.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:30
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Basebf555 posted:I think the consistent success of the Marvel films is deceptive; for the most part audiences have been supporting the good poo poo and ignoring the bad, its just that Marvel went on a ridiculous run without a fuckup. The two most important pieces of that were Thor 2 and Captain America 2. After the success of Avengers, people were going to go see those movies regardless, but if they'd been burned by them that could have slowed the train down quite a bit. Instead both were excellent and well received by both audiences and critics, and the train only picked more speed heading into Age of Ultron. The problem with this is that Thor 2 was bad, otherwise if agree. Fantastic Four is a strange case as it's one of few early 00s superhero films to be remade. Except Spider-Man I guess, though the Garfields didn't really work out (as much as I liked them). I wish I could figure out a way to think about the transition between Affleck Daredevil to TV Daredevil. Are there numbers or anything for the latter?
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Aug 10, 2015 21:31
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computer parts posted:I don't know anyone that I'd say "loved" Thor 2. I mean there's a reason why Civil War is coming two years after Winter Soldier and Thor 3 is coming four years after Thor 2. I am getting slower as the evening progresses, what's the reason? Release order for the sequels in whatever phase came after Avengers didn't perfectly mirror release order from before Avengers, did it?
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Aug 10, 2015 21:34
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Grendels Dad posted:I am getting slower as the evening progresses, what's the reason? Release order for the sequels in whatever phase came after Avengers didn't perfectly mirror release order from before Avengers, did it? It didn't perform that well (note: still made $600 million). You're right that Phase 2 didn't follow the Phase 1 order but the exception in that case was going from Cap 1 to Winter Soldier, and Cap 1 also performed pretty badly (worse than anything but Incredible Hulk).
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Aug 10, 2015 21:37
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computer parts posted:It didn't perform that well (note: still made $600 million). So what's the reason for Thor 3 getting released after Cap 3? I would say that it is because it fits Marvel's narrative but if there's a financial aspect I fail to see it.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:39
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Grendels Dad posted:So what's the reason for Thor 3 getting released after Cap 3? I would say that it is because it fits Marvel's narrative but if there's a financial aspect I fail to see it. It's lower in priority because it didn't make as much (and it's basically been the Loki Show anyway).
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Aug 10, 2015 21:40
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They really didn't expect Hiddleston being much more popular than Hemsworth.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:44
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Is Ant Man actually doing well? The internet shat on that movie non-stop prior to release, as I recall.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:46
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computer parts posted:It's lower in priority because it didn't make as much (and it's basically been the Loki Show anyway). I would say it's a mix. They obviously want to get to Civil War right quick, and Captain America happens to be more successful as a franchise but also it's more fitting to have that story in his movie. I do forget, are there even going to be more Iron Man movies?
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Aug 10, 2015 21:47
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second-hand smegma posted:Is Ant Man actually doing well? The internet shat on that movie non-stop prior to release, as I recall. ~$320 million worldwide according to BoxofficeMojo. It won't open in China for another month but it's out basically everywhere else. Right now it's about the lowest of any MCU movie since Cap 1.
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Aug 10, 2015 21:52
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second-hand smegma posted:Is Ant Man actually doing well? The internet shat on that movie non-stop prior to release, as I recall. It's a success on the level of Thor 1 and Cap 1. Won't beat either of those movies domestically, but it has a good shot to beat Cap 1's worldwide total, which is enough to arguably consider A-M "established" as far as these superhero things go. As of now, the nitty-gritty numbers: $147.436 million with a $7.8 million weekend after four weeks, which implies a final gross of between $160 and $175 million domestically, and $178 million internationally with a $9.2 million fourth weekend and four markets left (all of them big: China's good for at least $50 million and Italy, Japan and Korea all have big markets for Marvel stuff). If those markets do even half of what Cap 2 did, that's another $60-75m onto the final worldwide gross. So worst-case scenario, it does $400m on a budget of $130m. Not the usual for Marvel, but a decent launch of a second-tier hero and twice as good in context of F4.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:00
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Having continued to think about it, I wouldn't say you could even call this a bad movie. It's a broken movie, an unfinished movie, but you can see the blueprint of (and a couple scenes from) a good movie there. They really don't shy away from the ambiguous aspects of Reed's character---he says he wants his work "to make a difference" right after telling Sue he admires Captain Nemo. That's an awesome bit of characterization, which gets reinforced less subtly later, when Victor's like "you know you're lucky you didn't create a black hole right" and Reed's like "....oh. Yeah, good thing huh?" I mean yesterday I was basically regaling the story to a friend and explaining the whole chain of events from the guys getting drunk to Reed fleeing Area 57 and realizing as I said it I actually do like the movie, at least the parts of it that are there. You still have hilariously off stuff like the triumphal score put over a scene where the gang gets back to earth and realizes like ~60-100 people died because of Victor's wormhole.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:00
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second-hand smegma posted:The bubble didn't burst exactly, we're just on the the downward slide of consumer interest. What evidence are you basing this on?
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Aug 10, 2015 22:03
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Harime Nui posted:Having continued to think about it, I wouldn't say you could even call this a bad movie. It's a broken movie, an unfinished movie, but you can see the blueprint of (and a couple scenes from) a good movie there. They really don't shy away from the ambiguous aspects of Reed's character---he says he wants his work "to make a difference" right after telling Sue he admires Captain Nemo. That's an awesome bit of characterization, which gets reinforced less subtly later, when Victor's like "you know you're lucky you didn't create a black hole right" and Reed's like "....oh. Yeah, good thing huh?" The first half of the movie is the best film FF origin. There's a lot of greys and genuinely interesting characters. But, that goes to poo poo. Great origin maybe in a time when it's not wanted, with the film rushing to a Saturday Morning climax. Maybe the government should have been the antagonists. Maybe at one point they were.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:10
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Basebf555 posted:I think the consistent success of the Marvel films is deceptive; for the most part audiences have been supporting the good poo poo and ignoring the bad, its just that Marvel went on a ridiculous run without a fuckup. The two most important pieces of that were Thor 2 and Captain America 2. After the success of Avengers, people were going to go see those movies regardless, but if they'd been burned by them that could have slowed the train down quite a bit. Instead both were excellent and well received by both audiences and critics, and the train only picked more speed heading into Age of Ultron. I thought the 2005 film was decent, the sequel was complete trash. Gotta agree about the Marvel movie wipeout though, people have forgot there are a good number of bad Marvel movies. I can't wait for Suicide Squad or BvS to flop. They got their warning tremors with Batman Rises, at one point a DC movie is going to fight for the awful award. Maybe they can try to do Catwoman again.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:12
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PoshAlligator posted:The first half of the movie is the best film FF origin. There's a lot of greys and genuinely interesting characters. I thought they were pretty unambiguously the badguys of the movie! I mean they want to colonize that innocent planet that's just defending itself....
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Aug 10, 2015 22:17
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Harime Nui posted:I thought they were pretty unambiguously the badguys of the movie! I mean they want to colonize that innocent planet that's just defending itself.... That may be true, but the movie doesn't really make them the antagonists.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:18
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Tenzarin posted:I thought the 2005 film was decent, the sequel was complete trash. What warning tremors with Rises? The movie made over a billion dollars world wide, and has 87% with critics on Rotten Tomatoes and 90% with audiences.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:19
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PoshAlligator posted:That may be true, but the movie doesn't really make them the antagonists. In a sense, they're antagonists every step of the way---first because they want to seize control of the Matter Shuttle (albeit, in that case our protagonists are basically motivated by vainglory and teenage hormones so they're not exactly badguys), then for holding a bunch of traumatized kids and treating them like lab rats or living artillery strikes (now they're badguys), and for intending to essentially go harvest whatever they can (and hopefully create a whole army of loyal The Things) from a living planet.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:21
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ghostwritingduck posted:What warning tremors with Rises? The movie made over a billion dollars world wide, and has 87% with critics on Rotten Tomatoes and 90% with audiences. You know the warning tremors of "I didn't like it as much as Dark Knight therefore it was horrible" logic.
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Aug 10, 2015 22:58
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ghostwritingduck posted:What evidence are you basing this on? My personal interest or lackthereof in lovely movies like Avengers 2 Thor 2 Iron Man 2 Suicide Squad inevitable Guardians of the Galaxy 2 Ant Man 2 Iron Man 4 Hulk 2 Batman Again Spiderman 1(3rd) Wonderwoman 1-3 Daredevil on teevee Green Arrow on teevee Commissioner Gordon on teevee Flash on teevee and also the historical precedent for media trends to play themselves out beyond saturation points, create mega-bombs, collapse studios, or collapse entire subgenres, collapse classical hollywood, collapse new hollywood, and hopefully collapse Starwars (7-9+9.5+10.5 on teevee)...the fitting end to 40 years of adolescent bigbudget broad audience appeal PG13 cinema that Lucas heralded in 1977 and now says will implode even though he consults on that garbage to this day and has starwars weddings and museums in Chicago and both Stevens the Spielberg+ Soderbergh agree with me, and also George Lucas, who made Star Wars, and who the gently caress are you anyways? VVVVVVVVVVVVVV  "The Dickensian aspect"
BeanpolePeckerwood fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Aug 10, 2015 |
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Aug 10, 2015 23:24
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Dark Knight Rises isn't like that crap ya doof! It was based on Tale of Two Cities, a book written by Charles Dickens in the Nineteenth Century.
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Aug 10, 2015 23:26
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They're clearly bad guys but what's wrong about harvesting the resources of that planet? I found Victor's lame rants just part of him being a goony youth, like his fumbling line about waterboarding and middle finger goodbye. He's a lame dork and the lot of them are awkward and imperfect in multiple ways, and i liked that. Yeah sure, we hosed over this planet and we don't deserve this good break, but it's there anyway (through the power of human ingenuity) and the resources could enact a new age of prosperity and transcendent utopian poo poo for humanity along with saving millions of lives, changing the energy crisis, helping earth's climate, etc. The clearcut bad guy poo poo for me is once they started talking militarization. Were we supposed to take that planet and its energy as sentient? Oh it's supposed to be a living planet? What, just because the magic energy stuff is there and assimilated Doom once they started loving with it? Yeah, I guess that stuff was alive, but was it like...the core substance of that planet? Like does moss being on the planet earth make it a living planet? But yeah, I echo that this is more of a mix of a super generic mediocre film and a clearly unfinished studio-edit-fuckery film. People are going into like insane hyperbole about it being the new Catwoman or even Ripd or w/e that was called and it's clearly just people celebrating a flop they haven't seen (not that I blame them for not having seen it).
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Aug 10, 2015 23:27
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second-hand smegma posted:My personal interest or lackthereof in lovely movies like Avengers 2 Thor 2 Iron Man 2 Suicide Squad inevitable Guardians of the Galaxy 2 Ant Man 2 Iron Man 4 Hulk 2 Batman Again Spiderman 1(3rd) Wonderwoman 1-3 Daredevil on teevee Green Arrow on teevee Commissioner Gordon on teevee Flash on teevee and also the historical precedent for media trends to play themselves out beyond saturation points, create mega-bombs, collapse studios, or collapse entire subgenres, collapse classical hollywood, collapse new hollywood, and hopefully collapse Starwars (7-9+9.5+10.5 on teevee)...the fitting end to 40 years of adolescent bigbudget broad audience appeal PG13 cinema that Lucas heralded in 1977 and now says will implode even though he consults on that garbage to this day and has starwars weddings and museums in Chicago and both Stevens the Spielberg+ Soderbergh agree with me, and also George Lucas, who made Star Wars, and who the gently caress are you anyways? Green Arrow on TV is amazing you philistine!
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Aug 10, 2015 23:39
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Well, I guess when Victor touches the goop he says something like "I can feel it.... it's alive.... this whole planet is alive," I immediately thought it was a take on an old and ridiculous FF baddie, Ego the Living Planet. So I may have rushed to conclusions there. OTOH I swear when he gets back Victor says something like "it talked to me, it chose me" but maybe not. I don't really agree with Victor that the human race deserves to go extinct or that "his" world deserves to live more than us; but yeah the view you get of humanity in this movie isn't exactly cheery, what with the dirty junkyard neighborhood and that prick teacher being the main representatives of "normality" before the plot kicks in. It serves to make the heroes feel more isolated and unable to relate to ordinary people, and emphasizes the military industrial complex (a dungeon where the heroes are cut off from everywhere else for a lengthy part of the movie) as an inescapably dominant edifice.
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Aug 10, 2015 23:40
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Someone said it earlier more or less but this movie sounds a lot like Alien 3 and I wouldn't be surprised if eventually we got a director's cut of sorts that makes it better but still not that great.
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Aug 10, 2015 23:43
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Grendels Dad posted:Green Arrow on TV is amazing you philistine! Currently reading Snatch comics by R. Crumb and eagerly awaiting the miniseries.
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Aug 10, 2015 23:43
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Oh yeah I totally forgot about that rear end in a top hat teacher  "I can't understand this science so it must be MAGIC. F!!!!!"
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Aug 10, 2015 23:48
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