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I have removed parts from my new engine that I won't be using or aren't compatible with my car, like the upper intake, exhaust manifolds, EGR valve, fuel rail, idler pulley that's in the way of my power steering pump, the heater pipe that runs across the valve cover, and the like. I also test-fitted a 3400 upper I had laying around, and was satisfied with the result. Parts unrelated to the engine swap are starting to trickle in. As I said earlier in the thread, the '96 and older U-body vans share most suspension components with my car, so I ordered bare van struts, variable-rate car springs, car mounts, and car spring seats. Also on the way are new bushings for the van sway bar I already have installed. New KYB Gas-A-Just shocks will round out the rear. When I need to haul or tow, I have some Monroe Load Assist shocks, which have a 25 lb helper spring. At some later time, I will also replace the rear springs with variable-rate springs, and see about control arm bushings for the front, as the budget will allow.
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Feb 18, 2016 04:11
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I picked up an LG8 upper intake from the yard. I will probably take it to a machine shop to be checked for cracks and have the EGR passage cleaned. I have no idea why I didn't get the EGR valve and stove pipe at the same time. I also put on the Goodwrench front valve cover. Can't even tell it's not a 3.1!
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Feb 29, 2016 05:05
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Wow, I literally cannot stop posting in my thread. I fought with one of the springs for my struts for the better part of two hours on Sunday. Maybe it was the spring compressor set I rented from Autozone, but I wasn't able to get the spring scrunched down enough to put it on the strut and bolt on the mount. I looked at getting a "clamshell" style compressor, but every one I saw online said it was only useable on springs up to 7 inches in diameter, and mine are 8. Any suggestions?
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Mar 3, 2016 02:49
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I sent my junkyard LG8 upper to a machine shop to have it inspected for cracks, and if it checked out, cleaned. The EGR passage is a big concern, since it was pretty severely clogged on this manifold. That can cause an EGR-related check engine code to pop, which most people would probably throw a new EGR at, then be out that money when it doesn't cure the problem. I picked it up today, and was told it was fine, and it's quite clean now, including the EGR passage. Also, I will be picking up my assistant for this swap from the airport tonight. I've hired my dad to help. Some of you may recall that I had him help me swap the transmission in this car about two years ago. This will be more or less the same procedure. While the drivetrain is out, I will be again replacing all the mounts, since at minimum, the rear trans mount is trashed again. I ordered some 24 pound injectors from ACCEL, but will not be receiving them, due to back order. I will have to use my stock fuel rail, since the LX9 rail is returnless and not compatible with my car's stock fuel system. So I have to use stock-style injectors, which the ACCEL ones are. But after getting my order canceled twice, at ebay and Amazon, I will not be buying those. Instead, Mike at Milzy Motorsports will be sending me some 36 pound L67 injectors and some spacing brackets, since the L67s are a bit longer than the stock ones. This will also provide a bit of future-proofing, since I still want to beef this engine up a bit.  Poll question:Once I get started with the actual swap, should I continue posting in this thread, or make a new one?
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Mar 10, 2016 01:33
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SouthsideSaint posted:I can't wait to follow this trip down the rabbit hole. Rabbit hole indeed. I'm pretty sure this is going to be the first swap of its kind into these cars. Anyone know what size bolts I need to use to put this engine on the stand? I know the bellhousing bolts are M12 x 1.75, but I don't know how long. I don't have a metric measuring device.
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Mar 10, 2016 17:56
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Work has officially commenced on the swap! I got the replacement engine on the stand so it would be mobile, instead of just sitting on that pallet.     Here it is sneaking up on its unsuspecting victim.  Here is my dad pointing at the tensioner for some reason.    Progress for the day: alternator and power steering pump removed, upper intake yanked, replacement engine dressed. Most of the stuff I've bolted on will have to come back off, naturally.   I may have to go to the hardware store to try to find a 7/8" NPT tap. The LX9 has a heater pipe that is pressed in to the lower intake, but it's bolted in to my stock one.
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Mar 13, 2016 23:03
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kastein posted:7/8 NPT? Yeah, someone over at a-body.net said pretty much the same thing, so I'm just gonna cut the pipe off about 1.5 inches long on the LX9 and join the two with some hose.
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Mar 16, 2016 03:20
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Unless GM really outdid themselves, there's no such thing, but 1/2" NPT seems to have an OD of 0.84", which is pretty close, so I'm betting it's actually 1/2" NPT?
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Mar 29, 2016 21:08
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Today I made some progress, but only took two pictures. I bought a new transmission pan, one with a drain plug, since unscrewing twenty drat bolts to drain the trans sucks majorly. This is what the fluid and pan looked like. Click for bigger.   As some of you may recall, a blown oil cooler line led to some burnt clutches in the 1-2 shift. That looks like a lot of clutch material to me. I'm a little worried that it won't work when I put it back in. I will be putting a couple bottles of Lucas additive in. I also removed the oil filter adapter from the new engine and installed the threaded thing the filter spins onto from the old engine. The LX9 filter adapter puts the filter in interference with the subframe of my car. Just for notation purposes, the three bolts holding the adapter onto the LX9 have a 10 mm head, there is a gasket that has to be removed, and the threaded dealy needs a 10 mm hex socket. I had to stop for the day after that, because I broke a 15 mm socket trying to break loose the crank pulley bolt on the old engine. I don't think it's ever been done.
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Apr 6, 2016 01:29
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Christobevii3 posted:I don't understand your choice of cars or why you do it but you look like you are having fun with your pops. It's basically two reasons that go hand-in-hand: my kids like it, and it's the last of the old-fashioned American station wagons. The kids like it because it's an old-fashioned station wagon, with the rear-facing third seat. They love that. The more personal reason is that it's a station wagon, which drives exactly like the sedan it's based on, and it's loads more practical. It gets the same fuel economy as the sedan, but can carry more people and more things. Beats being another boring soccer mom/dad driving another boring jelly bean crossover. And, most importantly, as I've said before, this will be the first engine swap of its kind into these cars. What's not to like? But if you step back a little bit further, it's because this is Automotive Insanity at its finest. Amid the E9 2002, the 8th generation Civic Si, the Datsun 240Z being LS-swapped, the Jeepster refresh, a professional RX7 tinkerer, swamp-rear end Jeeps, a six wheeled Volvo, an Opel with a Suzuki engine, shoestring budget rally Subarus, five cylinder Audis, and buggered Soarers, doesn't this front wheel drive Buick wagon that traces its roots back to the goddamn Chevrolet Citation with an engine from a Malibu and suspension (and eventually brakes) from a minivan fit right in by not fitting in?
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Apr 6, 2016 02:43
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Christobevii3 posted:Didn't the roadmaster wagon with the lt1 last longer and with rwd more of the old fashioned american station wagon though? The B-bodies died after 1996 as well. I suppose I can amend my statement by saying it was the last of the GM wagons, since Ford made the Taurus and Sable wagons with a third seat until about 2005, but I didn't even consider them because they're terrible cars.
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Apr 6, 2016 02:48
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Stuff occurred! Things happened! POST ON THE INTERNET ABOUT IT!  The drivetrain is back together. Things were touch-and-go for a while, with a torque converter seal that didn't want to come out, then didn't want to go back in, and me boneheading the fact that the LX9 flywheel has multiple TC bolt patterns to accommodate both the 4T45 and 4T65 transmissions and having a minor freakout about needing to buy new flywheel bolts so I can swap the L82 flywheel over. Note for posterity: One of the bellhousing bolts has fled. I need to go to the yard and scare one up.    The passenger side engine mount bracket, despite not being used in the car this engine came from (Malibu), had the bolt holes both existing and tapped to mount it. Hurray for unintentional backwards compatibility! I will be using a stock-style solid rubber mount, since this is a "budget" build. I'm sure a polyurethane version exists somewhere, but this will do for now. One of the parts included in the 3500 swap kit is this differential bracket, which is modified to fit the 4T60E transmission, rather than the 4T45E the Malibu the engine came from uses. I tried my stock bracket. The bolt holes in the 3.5 block do not line up.  Another one is this cam position sensor, which is able to read the LX9 cam and clip into my stock harness. Good thing too, since the one on my old engine is more or less welded in there. I figure, if I actually wanted to remove the old cam sensor, I'd have to pull the timing cover.  Dad.   dadgif    Wife and dad mugging for the camera.        Things went mostly smoothly. I had to remove the transmission mounts to facilitate easier entry, even though it's a right kick in the dick to install the rear mount in situ. I also gaffled a downpipe bolt from the gold wagon since it appears that I either lost or forgot to install one of the two when I was in here last (2014 for a transmission swap). The power plant is currently sitting on a jack because I couldn't close the garage door with the crane holding it up. Pictured above in a few shots is an adjustable vacuum modulator for the transmission. This was installed on the junkyard transmission when I bought it, but I swapped it for the stock modulator because of the different positioning of the vacuum nipple (front vs. side). Running some new rubber on the hard line will cure any positioning ails. I'm glad I kept it, since I will need it now to keep the drat gearbox from flying apart at the seams behind this more powerful engine. After dumping half of its fluid on the road late last year, the transmission doesn't shift correctly from first to second. One of my posts on the last page shows a disconcerting amount of clutch material in the pan. I will probably have to adjust this modulator pretty stiffly to counteract the damaged clutches, which will probably end up being annoying to drive, but I will just have to deal with it. The plan is to have another one built some time next year, then do this whole thing all over again. I'm still debating whether I should stay with stock 2.97 gearing or have it re-chained to 3.33. The computer will have to be retuned to compensate, but with a newer style PCM, that isn't an issue. List of things still to do before first start:
Easy peasy, right?
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Apr 27, 2016 06:02
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Spent a couple of hours dicking around with the car tonight after work. Strike two things off the list!
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Apr 29, 2016 05:03
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Mock-up. This is in no way complete, but it makes me feel better seeing what the finished product will look like. During the mock-up, I tried to figure out if I can use my stock intake hose and air cleaner. I mentioned this before, but if I can't make that work, I will have to use some ricer bullshit that will completely ruin the aesthetics of my stock-appearing engine bay. It's difficult to visualize just what position everything will be in when I don't have a throttle body. It's also looking more and more like I'm not going to be able to use my stock cables. However, a member of the A-body board told me over Facebook Messenger yesterday that I might be able to use some from a '96-99 Lumina, which has the newer style throttle body I guess? Instead of being confined to a '96 van, which I've said before is not easy to find in the yards, whereas Luminas are plentiful. As an aside, does anyone have any images of a stock Lumina engine bay, or is willing to take some pictures and post them here? May or may not be helpful, but I would appreciate it. Marking some more stuff off the list, namely downpipe and power steering pump, and adding one thing I forgot. You can see it in the upper left of the picture above: the crank pulley. Kinda need that to run the engine.
Also, I think I'm going to just bypass the throttle body heater hoses, since that seems to be the main reason I would need to use my stock LIM coolant pipe. Also also, it looks like I managed to gently caress something up. There is a split in the driver's side inner CV boot. It's small right now, but I'm sure it will completely fly apart the first time I try to drive it. Can something like that be repaired with, say, a bicycle tube patch? I'd rather not have to buy another $70 axle.
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May 3, 2016 00:40
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Stemmler posted:I know it was made for the full size wagons but I think it would be fitting on yours. Got a link to where I can buy one of those? My car has been unadorned, but I really like that. A member at a-body.net informed me that the axle boot is not, in fact, made of rubber, but silicone, so a bike tube patch probably won't work. Thankfully, a new axle is $31 from Rock Auto, which costs less than getting a new boot. I may just try something dumb like Flex Seal though, just for kicks.
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May 3, 2016 23:10
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Axle ordered, should be here on Thursday. In non-news news, the lack of updates has been due in large part to my lack of parts. I still need several parts to finish these up, but haven't received them from Milzy. I got in touch with him today though, and he will be sending the rest of my stuff out in the next couple days. The throttle body, linkage, and cables are still a big hang-up though. Mike tells me that my car, despite having a Chevy V6, uses a Buick V6 throttle body and linkage, which is goofy as hell and makes it almost impossible to adapt to a new-style Chevy V6 throttle body. The throttle and cruise cables will most certainly have to be swapped, but with what? is the question. Also, the EGR valve I got from a yard has a slightly different connector than my stock one. It has "keyways", I guess you could call them, while my stock connector does not. I'll have to get another EGR I suppose. That or modify the connector with a dremel or something. Click for biggerer.  
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May 17, 2016 00:27
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I'm going to have to extend my coolant temperature sensor wiring anyway, so when I'm at the yard next I'll probably just find a car that has that style connector, snag it, and splice it in. (Or do the sane thing and get a valve that has the same style connector  .) That's what I'm going to do for the CTS.The swap kit Milzy sells is supposed to include a CTS extension, but he sent me a two wire, and mine is three wire. He says the supplier he's been getting the three wire extensions from has had poor quality recently, with the pins in the female end not staying in contact with the wires inside the connector, so I'm pretty much on my own. poo poo sucks. I was hoping to get away with not modifying my stock wiring. Only other option is to pull the lower intake and drill and tap it for the sensor in the stock location. It's in the rear head on the 3.5, whereas it's in the lower intake right behind the thermostat on my car, hence the need for the extension.
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May 17, 2016 02:36
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kastein posted:Can you take a pic of the CTS wiring? There's a good chance I know exactly what connector it is, 2 and 3 wire ones I've seen most of the ones available. You can probably make your own extender pretty easily for under ten bucks in materials. I actually just went to the yard, found another car with a three pin connector, and pulled the wiring, then spliced it onto my stock harness.  Okay, so summer swept into Las Vegas over the last week, so it's been too drat hot to get much of anything accomplished. I did receive the last of the custom parts from Milzy, so I put a bit of work into the car, including installing the new computer (I'll post pictures of the PCM location later) and figuring out some other A-body-specific hangups. I've made a list of everything I can think of offhand below. My notes for A-bodies: -Several wiring modifications must be made... --Extending the coolant temperature sensor harness if you have a three pin sensor. Mike does not supply a three pin extension, despite it being an option on the website. See below for a different approach. --The mass air flow sensor wiring has to be modified. The connector is the same, but the B and C wires must be swapped. --The throttle position sensor connector must be changed over to the new style. The stock TPS will not work on the new throttle body. -Unless you can make yourself a throttle body adapter, you have to use the "new-style" throttle body. The stock throttle body will not bolt on to the new intake, and the cables will not work, since the linkage is totally different. -I decided on a throttle cable from a '97 Lumina, and I had Mike send me a 56 mm LA1 throttle body with a matching Lumina linkage. No need to try and find a '96 van in the yard. The only modification that needs to be done is in the firewall where the cable enters the cabin. The stock cable uses a square clip, but the Lumina's is round. You'll need to "massage" the opening so the connector fits. Once you hook the other end of the cable to the bracket on the throttle body, there's no need to worry about length. It pulls the throttle open fully with no issues. -Cruise control appears to be trickier, assuming you want to retain it (you do). The Lumina cable has a different clip style where it enters the cruise module, again being round where the stock one is square. I'm still working out a solution, but it will probably involve removing the cable from the Lumina sheathe and putting it in the stock one, and using a cable end clamp (HELP! part number 03336, $3 from any Autozone) on the throttle end. -The dogbone bracket is incompatible with the LX9 block. It will not bolt on. None of the lower bolt holes line up with anything on the block. The bracket Mike sends in his swap kit will bolt on to the block, but since the A-body's AC compressor is "old-style" and bolts to the bracket, whereas the "new-style" compressor bolts to the block, you won't be able to use your stock AC compressor. A temporary solution is purchasing an AC bypass pulley for a W-body Century (2001 as an example) and removing your stock compressor, and just dealing without AC for now. It may be possible to adapt the new-style compressor, but it seems like it will need either custom refrigerant hoses, or hoses cribbed from another car. The A-body compressor's refrigerant hoses enter the compressor housing from the back, and the new-style ones enter on top. -Mike recommends using the LX9 upper intake and teeing various lines off the single vacuum port available. I'm not really a fan of that idea. I am using an LG8 3100 upper, since it has vacuum nipples in all the stock locations and keeps a stock appearance. -Using an LG8 upper, LA1 throttle body, and new-style mass air flow sensor, you can use your stock air cleaner housing and intake hose in the stock location to maintain a stock appearance. You will need a silicone coupler to mate the throttle body to the mass air flow sensor. I measured the MAF opening at about 3-1/4, and the maximum diameter of the TB opening (it is oval) at about 3-3/8. Try to get a black one to minimize riciness. -The L67 (supercharged Buick V6) fuel injectors I got will clip into the stock harness, but they will need to be modified to work with the stock fuel rail. On the stock injectors, there is a groove in the upper portion of the body where the little metal clip that holds it into the rail is seated. This groove exists on the L67 injector, but it does not extend fully around the body. Naturally, the groove is missing in the exact position needed to use the stock metal clips. I will need to extend the groove in these areas. -Use your stock heater tube, which is the black metal pipe that pokes out of the top of the water pump housing. If you get a junkyard engine, like I did, the one that comes with the engine will probably be clipped off and unusable anyway. This allows you to run the stock heater core hoses in the stock locations. -Using the stock water-pump-side and LX9 lower-intake-side heater tubes, there won't be anywhere for you to run the TB heater hoses. Don't bother. It's not really necessary, unless you live somewhere incredibly cold. If so, just have the lower intake tapped to match your stock piece. -If you've removed the LIM to tap that, you might as well go ahead and drill and tap for the coolant temperature sensor in the stock location, which is just next to where the thermostat is installed. Check your stock LIM for reference. That's the only reason I have to mess with my stock CTS wiring. I don't know what size it is. Take a new stock sensor with you to the machine shop. They should be able to figure it out from there.
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Jun 7, 2016 06:24
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Made a little bit of headway today. I went to a speed shop and picked up this silicone coupler to join the throttle body and mass air flow sensor body. For reference, it is a 3" to 3-1/4" coupler. I spent more than I wanted to, but it fits perfectly. And here is probably the last mock-up I will do. This is more or less complete in appearance. 
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Jun 14, 2016 22:21
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With a new thread title and thread tag (  ) comes an updated list.
* The dogbone bracket is Schrödinger's bracket. It is both going to work and not going to work. On the left is my stock bracket, and the one Mike sent me is on the right.  I said this already, but the stock A-body dogbone bracket is incompatible with the LX9 block. It will not bolt on. None of the lower bolt holes line up with anything on the block. The bracket Mike sends in his swap kit will bolt on to the block, but since the A-body's AC compressor is "old-style" and bolts to the bracket, whereas the "new-style" compressor bolts to the block, I won't be able to use my stock AC compressor. A temporary solution is purchasing an AC bypass pulley for a W-body Century (2001 as an example, Dorman 34127) and removing my stock compressor, and just dealing without AC for now. After looking at some pictures on Rock Auto of the refrigerant hoses, it seems like the new-style hoses will bolt on to my stock system. Maybe. I hope so. Left Ventricle fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jun 26, 2016 |
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Jun 26, 2016 21:39
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After some digging around at the yard over the weekend, I have discovered the solution to my air conditioning problem. a 1996 Pontiac Grand Am 3.1L has a compressor body that will bolt to the LX9 dogbone bracket and has the refrigerant hoses in the correct position. '96 Grand Am:  '96 Century: 
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Jul 11, 2016 18:25
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L67 injectors jammed into fuel rail.  Fuel rail back into lower intake.  One of the mounting bolts for the EGR touching one of the fuel lines. This is no bueno. I took it out and installed a shorter bolt.  Pretty much done for the day.  I still need to splice in a new connector for the throttle position sensor. The LG8/LA1 use a completely different connector than the L82. The number and colors of the wires are the same, so I just need to match them up. I am also going to the yard tomorrow to see if I can find a car that uses the same style cruise control module as my car with the new-style linkage. I really don't want to be without cruise. Almost there! 
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Jul 17, 2016 20:40
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Raluek posted:I don't suppose they have the same pins but different plastics? That would mean you could just de-pin the original connector and then jam them into the new connector body without having to splice any wires. But if the bodies take different pins, I suppose that defeats that plan. Stock connector is on the right, new one is on the left. 
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Jul 18, 2016 23:23
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kastein posted:I love how you are dedicated enough to figure out GM legos on a car that no one else has done this on. That AC compressor is some real wizardry, has anyone else in the Century community figured that out yet? I don't think so. I think I've said this before, but I'm almost completely certain I am the first person at least in the A-body and 60degreev6 communities to do this swap, if not the first in the world. The LX9 swap has been done in Cavaliers, Grand Ams, Aleros, Fieros, third gen Camaros, a couple trucks, and even a Datsun Z, but not a Century, whether an A-body or W-body. That's part of the reason I keep posting those seeming random pages of notes, in case someone else is bonkers enough to follow in my footsteps. I just wish the 60v6 folks gave a poo poo. Not to import forum drama, but it seems like the 60v6 guys just don't care unless it's a Fiero or Grand Am. Also, Left Ventricle posted:I am also going to the yard tomorrow to see if I can find a car that uses the same style cruise control module as my car with the new-style linkage. I really don't want to be without cruise. Left Ventricle fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Jul 19, 2016 |
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Jul 19, 2016 03:31
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More random notes: —The bolts that hold the fuel rail in place are M6 x 1.0 x 10mm. They are too short when using the rail brackets Milzy sends with the L67 injectors, because of the different shape of the nozzle end of the injectors. They don't fit completely in the bores in the lower intake. I bought slightly longer bolts (16mm) and M6 washers and slowly cinched them down to make sure I didn't crack the injector bodies. I don't foresee any problems with leaks though. I'll keep everyone posted. —Upper intake manifold bolts get Loctite 37418 thread sealer and torqued down to 18 ft-lbs, middle ones first. Or, since my Harbor Freight 3/8 torque wrench reads in in-lbs, 216. I received the compressor bypass pulley and spark plug wires in the mail last week, but the monsoon is setting in in Vegas, so it's drat miserable to work in my uninsulated, unventilated garage. Plus I can't find my alternator or belt, so I'm gonna have to buy a new belt and rummage through my pile of poo poo to find the alternator. I did find my old busted alternators though, one for the Chevy engine and one for the Buick engine, so there's that. 
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Jul 26, 2016 07:09
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It's beginning to cool down a bit early in the mornings here in Las Vegas, so I should be able to finish this up soon. It's really about 90% done at this point. I got the TPS connector spliced yesterday, as well as torqued the upper intake down. I need to bolt on the alternator, buy a shorter bolt for the external crank trigger bracket, torque the crank pulley on (118 ft-lbs), put on spark plug wires, radiator back in, trans cooler lines hooked up, coolant overflow, strut tower ties, belt, fill with fluids, and replace driver's side axle. Not much left, really.
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Aug 22, 2016 18:43
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Finally, a break in the summer weather. I got up at 8 am to a breezy 77 degree morning. I put in a couple hours in the garage and made some real progress. Here are the results! Alternator: Mostly on, lost a bolt.  Cruise control: uh, present. We'll see if this works. It's just sort of sitting there, with the cable attached to the ribbon.  Radiator, fan, trans cooler lines: check!  Spark plug wires: check! Thanks to my wife for wrapping the wires in loom for me. This image is an accurate representation of a finished product. I'm so close to being done I can almost taste it.  I need to go to the yard and get the missing alternator bolt, and the bolts that hold the header-side dogbone bracket, since those seem to have vanished as well. Big thanks to my dad, who's organization method was "throw everything in a bucket, sort it out later". I filled the engine with oil and did an experimental cranking. It turned! That's good news. It means that everything is hooked up correctly. I just need to finish mounting the alternator so I can put the belt on, get a shorter bolt for the crank position sensor bracket, fill the transmission and radiator, and put the coolant overflow back in. Then I can at least attempt to start it for real. Test drive will have to wait until after I replace the driver's side axle, since I somehow managed to tear the inner boot. I already have the replacement axle on hand. I just need to get to it.
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Sep 4, 2016 19:50
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Just when I thought things were going too easy... I had no choice but to take the upper intake back off, because fuel was pissing out of the rail when I turned the key on to crank it. From here:  In between the rail and the line nut. I guess I didn't tighten it down all the way or something. And naturally I don't have a 14 mm line wrench. Had to buy one. Luckily the gasket did not tear, so I didn't have to buy another one of those. Hopefully have a starting video soon. I will still have to replace the driver's axle before I can drive it though...
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Sep 11, 2016 17:55
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boxen posted:gently caress.  Fart Pipe posted:That just happened to me recently on the same engine and it was because I tore the o ring putting it back together. There's supposed to be an o-ring there? What size is it?
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Sep 12, 2016 03:16
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 I am feeling a bit smug. Here's why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBsATkPGHH0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDiAVJPNngA Now, as I said in the second video, it's not running all that well, and the check engine light is on. I went to Autozone and had them pull the codes for me. P0102 MAF sensor circuit low frequency P0336 Crankshaft position sensor circuit - performance problem P1675 EVAP vent solenoid control circuit malfunction I expected there to be a problem with the MAF, since I forgot to rewire the connector. The crank sensor code, after a quick googling, could be a problem with the 24x sensor, rather than the 7x external trigger, either the sensor itself or the reluctor wheel on the back of the crank pulley. I don't remember seeing anything wrong with it, but I guess I'll have to pull it off and check, and probably get a new sensor. The EVAP code is just gonna piss me off, since I just replaced both of the solenoids like last year. As for the fuel leak I posted about above, it turns out there is supposed to be an o-ring on the end of the fuel line going in to the rail, and it was not present. I replaced it, and all is well on that front. Also, the belt is squealing. It's flopping around, like it's too long. Either it is too long, or my tensioner is worn out.
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Sep 12, 2016 22:05
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ik sticky pls e: tia
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Sep 12, 2016 23:41
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KennyLoggins posted:Cool swap. Is this the 3.5 they use in the 9th Gen Impalas? I had a few rentals with them and it wasn't a bad engine at all. I'd imagine in a lighter A Body it'll move it pretty good. Corrected for you. It's a second cousin of sorts. I posted a bit about it earlier in the thread, but in summation, it has more in common with the 3.4L from the 8th gen Impala than the 3.5L in the 9th gen. That engine is a short stroke 3.9, while the 3.5 I'm using (from an early 6th gen Malibu) is a slightly overbored 3.4 (94 vs 92 mm, 9 more cubes), with better heads, intake, and gaskets. No Dexcool-related failures here. The EVAP code ended up being a torn elbow on the vacuum line going from the charcoal canister to one of the solenoids, which are located under the ignition coils on this car. A trip to the junkyard is in order for that. As for the crank sensor problem, I called Milzy, and he said it's more than likely the 24x sensor. A Delco replacement is $37 from Rock Auto vs $66 at the dealer. I'll also order the tensioner at the same time, which comes out to about $82 with shipping, with the crank sensor. Hopefully that, along with the rewired MAF connector, will cure the mechanical problems, and unlock the true potential of this engine. 
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Sep 20, 2016 07:34
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No unlocked potential.  Car still runs like rear end. I haven't been able to figure it out. The only lead I have is the P0336, which a little further research tells me it is sensor A, or the 7x sensor. It could be a number of things: a bad sensor (despite it working just fine when I pulled the stock engine), a bad wire from the sensor to the ignition module, the reluctor wheel not aligned correctly on the crank pulley, the sensor not aligned correctly with the reluctor wheel, or the sensor not gapped correctly to the reluctor wheel. It also began shifting funky. It wouldn't shift up from first to second at part throttle until I was going about 23 mph, then wouldn't go up to third until about 41 mph. An A-body board member said it's probably the throttle position sensor, which is old, so I ordered a new one from RockAuto, along with a new shorter belt. That stuff should be here on Saturday. And just in case anyone else is mad enough to try this themselves, I wrote up a more or less complete list of notes on doing this swap. Happy reading! Swapping an LX9 into a 1996 A-body (Buick Century, Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera). These notes apply only to the 1996 model year. 1994 and 1995 are transition years with regards to the computer systems ("OBD 1.5"), and most of the things I do will not work in 94 or 95 cars. If you wish to swap an LX9 into one of those cars, you should probably do a complete OBD2 wiring and computer swap, and go from there, or just buy a '96 V6 car. Hell, you could probably do this in a '96 van if you wanted, but without having to deal with all the throttle body/cable bullshit I had to handle. As an aside, a lot of the things I did were aimed toward keeping a stock or "sleeper" appearance. If you don't care about keeping it looking stock, you can change it up however you want. The county I live in does emissions testing, so I have to keep it "stock". To start with, you will need some custom parts. -External crank trigger for the 7x sensor, as you would for swapping the LX9 into any other car. Take your stock 7x sensor out of the L82 (or buy a new one) and put it into the trigger bracket. Leave the LX9 sensor in the block to prevent a massive oil leak. -The stock computer may run this engine, but it probably won't run well. I ordered a retuned, repinned '97 Monte Carlo PCM from Milzy, since, until recently, WOT-Tech didn't offer a '96 upgrade. -Differential bracket. The stock A-body bracket does not bolt on to the LX9 block. I bought one from Milzy Motorsports, since to my knowledge WOT-Tech does not offer one. -Cam postition sensor. I believe this is a 2000-2003 sensor, but again, I bought it from Milzy, since he offers it with the correct wiring to plug into the stock A-body harness. -Not custom, but you'll need to transfer your L82 crank pulley and 24x sensor over to the LX9. -Wiring extension for the coolant temperature sensor. The LX9 has the CTS in the rear head, rather than in the thermostat housing portion of the lower intake. This is dependant on whether your car has a two wire or three wire sensor. There doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason on these cars as to which one they will have. I have seen a couple '96 cars in the yard with a two wire sensor. For the record, mine has a three wire. Again, I bought an extension from Milzy, but, despite it being an option on his site, he no longer offers a three wire extension. I had to splice in a few extra inches with a connector I clipped off at the yard. This proved more difficult than I anticipated, since, as I said, there didn't seem to be a pattern to which cars (across various platforms) had a three wire sensor. -Remove the LX9's coolant sensor and install the three wire one Milzy includes in his kit. Put teflon tape on the threads. Use a deep 19 mm socket. Don't hammer it in. It's an aluminum head. Just snug. -Dogbone. A and W cars used dogbones, others did not. The stock A-body dogbone will not bolt on to the LX9 block. You'll have to use a later W-body one. Again, I bought one from Milzy. You'll also need to replace the head bolt that goes under the bracket, since cars with dogbones have a head bolt there with either a taller head or a stud that you bolt the bracket on to. It is safe to remove the one bolt. Torque is 44 ft-lbs + 95 degrees. Moving on from custom parts. This is all just raiding the parts bin, or playing GM Legos, if you will. -Throttle body is not really "custom", but the stock A-body one is unuseable, unless you make yourself an adapter. It uses three studs around the throttle opening, instead of the two (other L82, LG8, LA1) or four (LX9) bolts other engines use. No one makes one commercially. Someone on the A-body board made one for themselves a few years back when they did a big port swap on their '94 Ciera, but they only made one and didn't post any dimensions or schematics for the benefit of the board at large. You will need to use a throttle body from a non-A-body car. Size is really the only deciding factor. Since the mentality is generally "go big or go home", an LA1 TB is probably in order. -The other reason the A-body L82 TB is unuseable is the throttle cable and linkage. It is "Buick-style", meaning it is very similar to the one used on older 3.8 and 3.3 Buick engines. Why GM chose to engineer a bespoke throttle body and upper intake manifold for the A cars when literally millions of other L82-powered vehicles had new stuff is beyond me. The linkage is on the "wrong" side (facing the firewall) and uses some ball pivot nonsense which is wholly incompatible. You can't even just swap the linkage over, since the throttle return spring is separate, not integrated, and would be on the wrong side anyway. You can't use any of the stock sensors either. Unbolt it, clip the cables, toss the whole thing in the bin. -Take this opportunity to get rid of the "black box". It's a plastic housing mounted to the firewall right next to the AC drier. The throttle and cruise cables go in here for whatever reason. Since you're not using the stock TB, this box can go right in the bin with the stock TB. -You'll need a cable bracket from some other L82/LG8/LA1 car, since the stock one doesn't work for a variety of other, but related, reasons. -The throttle cable... Most A-body folks reasoned that you'll need a cable from a 1996 van, which is a perfect storm of NLA. First, it's one year only, being the last year of the A-body-based U platform, and the only year an LA1 was available. The cable is NLA from GM, and not made aftermarket. So few '96s were made that you probably won't find one in a junkyard. I've only personally ever seen one in the last five years or so, and it was well before undertaking this swap. But really, since you're using a new TB, just get a cable from any old thing. I settled on a '97 Lumina, but it's stupid long for some reason. I will probably try and find a shorter one at a later date, but it works for now. The only other issue is the firewall connector. The A-body is square, and the Lumina is round. You'll need to "massage" the opening a bit, but it clips on to the pedal just like stock. -I had a hard time coming up with a solution for maintaining cruise control. The A-body's cable clips in to the cruise module with a square clip, much like the throttle cable going in to the firewall. Every other GM car with electronic cruise, from four cylinders, to other Chevy V6s, to Buick V6s, to Northstars, use a round twist-lock clip. I couldn't figure out a non-redneck way to make it work, aside fron cutting the actual Lumina cable and putting it in the A-body housing in some way. I don't own any metal melting equipment though, and the only mechanical solution I tried (Dorman 03336 cable clamps) was a bust, I just shaved the clips off the outside of the round part, hooked the ribbon from the inside of the module up to the cable, and let it sit there, free. The cruise works. It takes a lot longer than before to engage, losing around 3-4 mph on the highway before it grabs, but it works. That's what mattered to me. -I also considered using a cruise module from another car to match the Lumina cable, but again, the A-body bites me in the rear end. The modules all share the same ten pin electrical connector, but the A-body only uses nine wires. At the time, I didn't want to take the chance of potentially wasting my money on a cruise module if it didn't work. I may revisit this in the future. -Throttle position sensor wiring: it will need to have a "new-style" connector spliced on, or repinned onto a new connector. The "old" wires are all the same color as the "new" ones. -Idle speed control : the part itself is a slightly different design, but the electrical connector is the same. -The mass air flow sensor is totally different. Going back to being "Buick-style", the sensor is sort of integrated into the throttle body, while the later ones are in the intake hose assembly somewhere. The connector is the same between the two. You can then use a stock MAF sensor and housing from pretty much any 1996-2005 Chevy V6. -Intake air temperature sensor is shared. No modifications necessary. Just jam it in there any old place. -Toss the LX9 fuel rail and injectors in the corner. The LX9's fuel system is returnless. Not compatible. Use your stock rail and regulator. It will line up and bolt down in the stock position. -Fuel injectors are sort of a toss-up. You shouldn't use the stock injectors, since they are only 19 pounds. You'll pretty much max them out on a bone stock engine. I went with L67 injectors, which are known as having a flow rate of 36 pounds. Your stock computer definitely won't run those correctly. Once again, Milzy got me these, along with modified fuel rail brackets. You'll need slightly longer bolts to put the rail back in. M6 x 1.0 x 16 is what I used. The stock ones are 10 mm, and are too short. -The L67 injectors have to be modified a bit. The body length and wiring are the same as stock, but there is a groove where the retaining clips ride that is partially missing on the L67s. I imagine this is because of the different mounting position of the L67 rail on its engine. That groove needs to be added. A quick hit with a band saw was all I needed. -Beyond that, the engine itself drops back in place without issue, since the block is physically the same size, and it has the same bellhousing as your stock engine/transmission. It will use stock mounts no problem. You'll need to transfer over your passenger side engine mount bracket, the one that goes under the crank pulley. The LX9 I bought came out of a Malibu, which uses a mount that bolts to the wheel well, like a C-body. The bracket bolts on just like stock. -Some engines may have a plate of some sort on the timing cover. It's just basically glued on. It'll have to come off so you can mount your stock accessories. -Speaking of accessories: your stock tensioner, power steering pump and alternator bolt on in their stock positions without issue. You'll need to transfer over your alternator bracket and passenger side engine lift bracket. The engine lift bracket spaces the alternator bracket out a bit to line up with the belt. The LX9's lift bracket is stamped differently, and doesn't fit behind the L82 alternator bracket. -Unless it makes some noise when you spin it, don't do anything with the water pump. It's fine. Lets you keep your stock lower radiator hose. -The air conditioning compressor, however, is a different story. As I said above, the dogbone bracket will need to be changed. This leaves nowhere to mount your stock compressor, since the stock one bolts to the dogbone bracket, while the LX9 has it bolted directly to the block. A 94-98 V6 N-body (not Malibu or Cutlass though) compressor is the solution, because it bolts to the block in the same way, and has the refrigerant hoses in the same orientation as your stock compressor. That or bolt on a bypass pulley (Dorman 34127). Either way, make sure you evacuate the AC system beforehand so you're not illegaly venting nasty poo poo to atmosphere. -No matter what you choose, your stock belt is now too long, by one inch. Stock is 69.5". Buy one at 68.5". If you must specify an application, same as the compressor: any 94-98 N-body V6, aside from the Malibu and Cutlass. -Transfer your oil pressure sender from the L82 to the LX9 (or install a new one for the L82). The LX9 is a single wire sender, the L82 has a three wire. -Transfer your stock knock sensor over as well. -As stated above, I chose to maintain a stock engine appearance. I used an LG8 upper intake manifold, from a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix. In addition to looking stock to anyone uninformed about the L82's ribbed UIM, it allows me to retain vacuum for my HVAC, manifold absolute pressure sensor (MAP), and transmission modulator for the stock 4T60E. -I also used my stock exhaust. The front and rear manifolds bolt on to the LX9 heads in the same place. -Your stock EGR valve will not mount to the LG8 upper. You also will not be able to use the one from the LX9. You'll need one from an LG8 or LA1, along with the stove pipe. The pipe will screw in to the stock rear manifold the same. Make sure the connector on the valve is the same as your stock one. Most of the vertical-mount ones are, but some have these weird grooves in them, while my stock connector was smooth. -When you bolt the valve on to the intake, the bolt on the left (when standing in the front of the car), will touch the stock L82 fuel line when cranked down fully. I'm not sure of the pitch, but just take it to a hardware store and have them give you one 10 mm shorter. You don't need that bolt to wear a hole in your fuel line. -Transfer over your stock EVAP solenoid(s). It (they) will bolt on in the stock position. I used supposed plurals because California cars (which mine is) have two solenoids there: one blocky one, one disc-shaped one. I think on non-CA cars one of them is instead mounted onto the charcoal canister. I'm not really sure. -Your stock starter will bolt on and wire up like stock, assuming you want to keep the stock starter. You can use a newer-style small starter from an LG8/LA1 if you want, which will likewise go on like stock. Going with my sleeper status, I used my stock starter, so it sounds stock. -Since I used an LG8 upper, I can also mount my stock igntion module and coils in the stock position. -My LX9 came with the heater pipe on top of the water pump from the Malibu. Doesn't work in an A-body. Transfer your stock one over. This allows you to use your stock heater core hoses. Despite the fact that neither the LX9 nor the L82 used a gasket there, and the L82 didn't leak before, when I ran the L82 heater pipe on the LX9, it leaked from there. Couldn't hurt to slap some water pump gasket maker (grey RTV) on there. You have to let it cure for 24 hours though. -Some folk say you need to transfer your L82 water fitting over to the LX9. This is the one that comes out of the thermostat housing area of the lower intake manifold, under the throttle body. This would necessitate removing the LX9's hose and tapping the boss 1/2" NPT to use the L82 pipe. I didn't do that. I just clamped the heater core hose on and called it a day. -Transfer your stock thermostat housing over. Lets you keep your stock upper radiator hose. -Using an LA1 throttle body, L82 thermostat housing, LX9 water fitting, and an A-body heater pipe, there is nowhere for the throttle body heater to accept its coolant. -Oh well. -Seriously, you don't need a TB heater. Don't bother. Don't even need to cap the pipes off on the TB. -Again with the stock appearance: Put your stock air cleaner back in place. Details below. -The MAF sensor you will need to use does not mount in the stock location (in the throttle body). You'll need to put the body somewhere in the air stream. LG8/LA1 cars put it in the intake hose, in between the TB and the air cleaner. This is where I put mine. Using the stock air cleaner, I went air cleaner -> stock intake hose (IAT goes here as well) -> MAF. In order to join the MAF and the TB, I bought a 3" to 3-1/4" silicone coupler, in black. 3" goes on the TB, 3-1/4" on the MAF. Use a standard worm gear clamp on the TB side. I used a T-bolt on the MAF side. You don't have to, but it's a little more secure, I guess. -This will compress your stock air hose a bit. It's accordion-like, so it should be okay. If it is cracked, look in to getting a new one. It's part number 25147228, but good luck getting one from a dealer. A junkyard part will probably be in the same or worse shape. I lucked out. Mine is okay. Otherwise you'll have to run some stupid ricey aluminum thing. -Everything else is just tightening down bolts and clipping the harness back in to everything. The LX9 will mate with your stock torque converter and transmission without issue. -I might recommend replacing your converter while you have it apart. Part number GM42CW is a good one I've been using for a couple years without issue. Available from a few companies; I bought a ProKing. 245 mm, carbon clutch, 1800-2200 stall. Locked up nice and tight while towing a 5x8 U-Haul trailer at 60 mph in third gear for 1200 miles. -I also replaced the converter or input shaft seal, but if it doesn't already leak, leave it alone. It'll probably be fine. -Also going to recommend an adjustable vacuum modulator. Nobody really makes one specifically for a 4T60(E). Specify one for a TH400. It should be a brass color with two red stripes. -Last thing: The LX9 uses a remote oil filter housing. It appears that it would interfere with either the radiator fan and/or the subframe when mounted in an A-body. I removed it, and installed the threaded dealy that the filter spins on to from the L82. You'll need a 10 mm internal hex (or "allen") socket. Left Ventricle fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Nov 24, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 02:27
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Sorted! Runs great now. Basically, I'm a bonehead. First, it turns out that I was misinformed about the wiring modification to the MAF connector. The P0102 went away after I swapped the wires back to the stock positions. The EVAP code is gone because I replaced the torn vacuum elbow on one of the solenoids. The crank sensor code is gone with the replacement of the 24x sensor. I also found out I had a fuel leak. The fuel pressure regulator was leaking externally somehow. Luckily, I had some foresight and bought one a few months ago. Swapped that and no more leak. The transmission was shifting funky, and at the suggestion of an A-body member, I replaced the throttle position sensor. I probably didn't need to, since I found that my wiring splice had come apart, so I taped that back together and the transmission acts right again. Couldn't hurt, right? After getting the MAF, EVAP, TPS and CPS codes handled the computer could stop freaking out and finally tell me that there was, in fact, a misfire, of the random/multiple variety, with flashing SES light! P0300! The only time I've had a flashing SES is when I didn't put the spark plug wires on the coils in the right order. That held true this time too. Turns out I had the #2 and #6 wires crossed. With that back in order, I burned the front tires pulling out of my driveway. George is back! I put about 80 miles on the car this evening, long enough for the computer to figure its poo poo out and let me know that the engine is running lean. P0171, bank 1 lean. But since there's only one oxygen sensor for the whole engine, that would mean it's running lean all over, yeah? That aside, it ran great, as well as it did before I wrecked the stock engine. It doesn't seem to have any more power than stock though. That might be down to the gearing in the transmission still being tall, or the smaller LG8 intake and stock exhaust being hooked up to the engine. And unless my gauge isn't reading correctly anymore, it seems to be consuming a lot of fuel, though that might go together with the lean condition? I will fill it up tomorrow and get an economy figure in a few days.
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Nov 18, 2016 05:57
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Yeah, only one upstream and one downstream sensor. Chalk it up to being a remnant of OBD1, I guess. O2 sensor ordered from Rock Auto. For $22 it's hard to go wrong. I have every reason to believe the front O2 sensor is original to the car.
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Nov 19, 2016 01:53
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209.3 miles, 10.326 gallons of gasoline. 20.3 miles per gallon. I have been, uh, let's say "indulging myself" with regards to my newfound power. That is an approximate 60/40 highway/city mix, with spirited acceleration. So not terrible, honestly. The new oxygen sensor should help that a bit, as will me not giving it the beans so much.
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Nov 21, 2016 07:06
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Hi.      "New" wheels for George. The GM Legos at play in this car grow ever larger. They are from a 1998 Chevrolet Malibu, with center caps from a 1997 Buick LeSabre. I've had these wheels for something like nine years, and they've been on a couple of cars I've had in the past, including my van. They live, they die, they live again.
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Dec 2, 2016 00:21
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 3/4 second improvement over stock.
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Dec 3, 2016 23:37
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Left Ventricle posted:
iwentdoodie posted:How...how is it that slow Hard street tires, highway-geared automatic, 8-way power seats. Still faster than before I started, which was 18.34. Baby steps. e:quoted for new page
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Dec 4, 2016 01:06
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kastein posted:supercharger Baby steps. Suspension, tires, transmission, driver skill, weight reduction. Then POWERRRRRRRRRRRR. All in due time, friends. Fermented Tinal posted:Engine's already figured out that its in a Buick.
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Dec 4, 2016 01:50
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