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420 Gank Mid posted:Nothing speaks for "an entire country" so stop moving the goalposts I would never say its OK to call someone that. But if Mr.Hernandez wants to draw a cartoon about a leader that was known for censoring free speech, that his prerogative and I don't know if that makes that cartoonist inherently racist. Have you actually looked at the full size cartoon? Can you explain me to any of the context of the symbols in the image? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 31, 2019 02:05
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536 posted:I would never say its OK to call someone that. But if Mr.Hernandez wants to draw a cartoon about a leader that was known for censoring free speech, that his prerogative and I don't know if that makes that cartoonist inherently racist. Let me give you a quick cheat sheet "If you're calling a black or african person an ape/monkey/non-human primate, its racist" BigFactory posted:Where are the goalposts? The question asked was "Do you believe Boots Riley faked this racist cartoon?"
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Aug 31, 2019 02:46
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420 Gank Mid posted:
I can’t imagine that he did. What’s the larger takeaway?
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Aug 31, 2019 03:21
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536 posted:When did Boots Riley become some kind of definite source on anything? The guy is a Tienanmen Square truther. gently caress that is disappointing. I love his movie and his speeches. I really hope this isn't true. 
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Aug 31, 2019 03:32
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This entire conversation is a red herring anyways. The only reason it was ever brought up in the first place is a ham handed attempt to draw a false equivalency between the anti-Maduro protesters and the far right in the US. It is not worth seriously engaging. I mean, what's even the point? Anyone who has followed the protest movements knows the protesters aren't a shrieking crowd of racists. So do the people who periodically claim otherwise in this thread.
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Aug 31, 2019 03:43
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punk rebel ecks posted:gently caress that is disappointing. I love his movie and his speeches. I really hope this isn't true. It appears he’s scrubbed his account since then (he does it periodically) but you can find people reacting to it with a quick search. Riley has routinely uncritically promoted and retweeted propaganda from TeleSUR, etc. Edit: example conversation, click through for thread and direct ghouta truther stuff https://mobile.twitter.com/bootsriley/status/1091129087219838976 Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Aug 31, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 03:59
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536 posted:Is calling someone a monkey inherently a racist insult? Is it still racist if the writer of the comic isn't white? in the specific Venezuelan context, there is in fact a racist association between African heritage and simian imagery. That is the conclusion of at least one scholar who studied modern Venezuelan media representations at least, and it is consistent with representations in other countries. Of course it's difficult extrapolating from these broad observations to the intentions of a specific image, without a solid understanding of the specific context, but it's something to keep in mind.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:10
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It's still a very long walk from an old political cartoon of a dead man to dismissing all the opposition's criticisms of Maduro as being mindless racism. Because I think that was the central point that was being pushed here that hinged on the particular existence of racism in Venezuela? It doesn't establish intensity or pervasiveness, and while the one article on a mob killing is severe, the article doesn't establish or even claim racial motivations, and it doesn't help that it links to Maduro comparing the opposition's treatment of his supporters to the holocaust, which is a statement that on its own is patently false. One mob killing in a country full of mob killings without a demonstrated racial pattern throughout any of them doesn't come anywhere close to establishing that the opposition are all racist monsters who should be ignored. In fact, the way that it avoids most criticism of the regime while tacitly implying it's all bunk makes it seem like a cheap shot rather than earnest criticism.
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Aug 31, 2019 17:01
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Despite me being against Chavez and Maduro, yeah, the cartoons were racist. I can't say 100% whats the deal with Venezuelan brand of racism but in large parts of latin america is a perfidious blend of class, heritage, skin-tone and caste whose closest US analogue would be "colorism." Xenophobia against venezuelans here got bigger when poorer (and browner/blacker) venezuelans started coming and some whiter venezuelans I've talked to rail against their (((poorer))) compatriots. You see, when a dark skinned person in latin america is called a monkey, a lot of people laugh and don't consider it racist (despite being really racist) because they still consider that person "one of our own", unlike the segregated societies of the global north. That's why you get racism between siblings. But it's still really racist, causes a lot of social problems and foments discrimination because it regards whiter skin and european look as better and more desirable than darker skin and native/afro looks. I mean, we still can't get this guy out of TV
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Aug 31, 2019 18:29
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Someone should tell Maduro now might be a bad time to start a war against Colombia https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/09/venezuela-alert-maduro-alleges-colombia-plot-attack-190904041627386.html
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Sep 5, 2019 12:26
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The new season of Amazon's Jack Ryan decided to make Venezuela a nuclear rogue state or some poo poo: https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1169657261465198593
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Sep 5, 2019 18:13
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Sinteres posted:The new season of Amazon's Jack Ryan decided to make Venezuela a nuclear rogue state or some poo poo: When your television show is plagiarizing Call of Duty sequels from half a decade ago.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:14
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Lightning Knight posted:When your television show is plagiarizing Call of Duty sequels from half a decade ago. To be fair call of duty probably cribbed plenty from the C tier Tom clancy books.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:12
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punk rebel ecks posted:gently caress that is disappointing. I love his movie and his speeches. I really hope this isn't true.
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Sep 5, 2019 21:18
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Boots is an open and avowed communist, that's what both his music and his movie are about lol, I don't know what you were expecting. This has always been his fight and he's one of the only voices out there with a public platform opposing the US state department line on Venezuela.
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Sep 5, 2019 21:44
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Boots is a great artist but like a lot of smart successful dudes he doesn't know when it's time to put his dick away and listen. His interview on Democracy Now! Was incredible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdCPvMNKvhE Bob le Moche posted:Boots is an open and avowed communist, that's what both his music and his movie are about lol, I don't know what you were expecting. This has always been his fight and he's one of the only voices out there with a public platform opposing the US state department line on Venezuela. There are plenty of people on the far and extreme left who oppose Maduro and the PSUV. Hell, Adbusters ran a piece against the PSUV as far back as the early 2000s.
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Sep 5, 2019 22:24
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punk rebel ecks posted:far and extreme left punk rebel ecks posted:Adbusters 
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Sep 5, 2019 22:33
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Dismissing one government killing a couple thousand people for protesting really taints any future criticisms.
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Sep 5, 2019 23:07
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Sinteres posted:The new season of Amazon's Jack Ryan decided to make Venezuela a nuclear rogue state or some poo poo: Congratuations to Fnox on his fancy new hollywood writer gig
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Sep 6, 2019 07:36
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Bob le Moche posted:Boots is an open and avowed communist, that's what both his music and his movie are about lol, I don't know what you were expecting. This has always been his fight and he's one of the only voices out there with a public platform opposing the US state department line on Venezuela. You can be both an open and avowed communist, while also not being supportive of revisionist histories of communist countries which were slaughtering their own citizens. When Boots does the commie truther poo poo about Tienanmen square and such, it makes all of his other points look worse.
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Sep 6, 2019 13:01
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I get that solidarity is an important part of communism, but it's important to know who you're in solidarity with. I'd respectfully suggest that if you're stanning for some corrupt shitbird murdering and exploiting people weaker than themselves, you're probably not actually a communist, you're just another flavour of fash. Or maybe I actually should be marching and waving placards to defend the right of some creep like Martin Smith to rape fourteen-year-olds because he's the head of an ostensibly communist party, in which case, consider me enlightened.
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Sep 6, 2019 13:20
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Solidarity with comrades John Bolton and Elliott Abrams against the real fascist: Boots Riley (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 6, 2019 13:51
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Tankies are not communists. They adopt the trappings of communism to push an authoritarian agenda.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:11
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Bob le Moche posted:Solidarity with comrades John Bolton and Elliott Abrams against the real fascist: Boots Riley So the fact that he apparently believes and espouses an idea that is completely counter to the historical record not bother you?
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Sep 6, 2019 15:12
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Giggle Goose posted:So the fact that he apparently believes and espouses an idea that is completely counter to the historical record not bother you? As a fan of Boots Riley's work, I can see how it would be bothersome if he were hired as a Chinese history professor or something like that, but part of growing up is learning to find value and camaraderie in people who believe silly or even objectively incorrect things. A majority of people around the world are religious, even today. Isaac Newton believed in alchemy. They still produce(d) great work. Maybe the problem is that I don't quite see how Boots Riley's ideas about China are directly relevant to the ongoing crisis in Venezuela - can you elaborate on that? Is he the new opposition leader? Civilized Fishbot fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 17:11
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Tankies are simply fascists with a huge fetish on statism.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:41
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Civilized Fishbot posted:Maybe the problem is that I don't quite see how Boots Riley's ideas about China are directly relevant to the ongoing crisis in Venezuela - can you elaborate on that? Is he the new opposition leader? If someone's a Tienanmen Square truther, that is a valid reason to assume they might not actually know what they're talking about when it comes to Venezuela either. It's the same logical reason you shouldn't trust anything Bolton or Abrams says about Venezuela either.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:56
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:If someone's a Tienanmen Square truther, that is a valid reason to assume they might not actually know what they're talking about when it comes to Venezuela either. It's the same logical reason you shouldn't trust anything Bolton or Abrams says about Venezuela either. I only saw someone posting a tweet where Boots Riley links to/screenshots some articles he didn't write, so I don't really see how Riley's credibility on any subject comes into the conversation.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:17
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I only saw someone posting a tweet where Boots Riley links to/screenshots some articles he didn't write, so I don't really see how Riley's credibility on any subject comes into the conversation. Yeah, but you get the concept of there being some beliefs that are so odd that when you hear that someone subscribes to them it kinda makes you question everything else they believe, right? I’m talking like flat earth stuff or young earth creationism or even climate change denial. I don’t know if Tianamen square trutherism is the same kind of craziness but it’s odd to say the least.
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Sep 6, 2019 18:28
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Civilized Fishbot posted:I only saw someone posting a tweet where Boots Riley links to/screenshots some articles he didn't write, so I don't really see how Riley's credibility on any subject comes into the conversation. Its a red herring to give people a fig leaf to put over the intense racism deeply intertwined with the anti-chavismo movement. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 6, 2019 20:45
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420 Gank Mid posted:Its a red herring to give people a fig leaf to put over the intense racism deeply intertwined with the anti-chavismo movement. You still have never addressed the maduro governments treatment of the indigenous population. I'm starting to think that you might actually be a decidedly disengenous person.
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Sep 6, 2019 21:03
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As Newton believed in alchemy it doesn't call his mathematics into question per se, but it would render his opinion on chemistry suspect. Likewise someone defending Tiananmen on the basis of left solidarity would kind of undermine the basis of their defending other nominally left governments.
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Sep 7, 2019 10:59
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Rust Martialis posted:As Newton believed in alchemy it doesn't call his mathematics into question per se, but it would render his opinion on chemistry suspect. quote him saying that he's defending tiananmen solely on the basis of left solidarity and you're golden
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Sep 7, 2019 11:29
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its cool? how the tiananmen square protests likely would never have happened had there not been a huge protest against african students months before
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Sep 7, 2019 11:30
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I am skeptical of how effectively you can poll Venezuelans right now given the situation in the country and the amount of weighting you'd have to do to make up for people who aren't going to be reachable but I thought the following poll from back in June was nevertheless interesting, especially given the very strong number of people who think US sanctions are impacting their daily life.The Miami Herald posted:A new poll suggests that the five-month political stalemate in Venezuela is subtly helping Nicolás Maduro, as an increasing number of people acknowledge that he’s the country’s legitimate leader — despite the international recognition for his rival, Juan Guaidó.
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Sep 7, 2019 16:47
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Kinda amazing how an entire page was spent accusing a dude of being a Tienamen truther, whatever the hell that even means, while no one being able to actually prove what the author actually said.AGGGGH BEES posted:Tankies are not communists. They adopt the trappings of communism to push an authoritarian agenda. It's bizarre how a word that was born to accuse the supporters of the Soviet Union during Kruschev time is now used to attack anyone who talks about the USSR, China, Cuba or Vietnam without accusing them of being fascists or whatever the gently caress Ultras believe in 2019.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:10
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Mans posted:Kinda amazing how an entire page was spent accusing a dude of being a Tienamen truther, whatever the hell that even means, while no one being able to actually prove what the author actually said. https://twitter.com/BootsRiley/status/1136111035511762946 A Tienanmen square truther is someone who doesn't believe the worldwide common historical record of that protest and slaughter of citizens by the Chinese government. Its like the far-left version of being a holocaust denier. Its a similar brain worms as being an Holodomor denier. Some people can't think beyond the "communism = good" and therefore no commie government has every done anything wrong.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:29
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Aren't you attacking someone's credibility based on their beliefs in something stupid, then using actual nazi propaganda words like the "holodomor" (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 9, 2019 03:34
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536 posted:https://twitter.com/BootsRiley/status/1136111035511762946 I read through the article. Simply in the listed credentials and the place it was published, the man seems credible. Is there a response to the original 1998 article available? E: the argument presented by Jay Matthews is that there was little or no killing within the square itself, though there were hundreds killed in other places later that day. But there were myths and obvious false claims repeated uncritically by Western press about massacres within the square itself. Is that incorrect? And what does it have to do with Boots Riley pointing out what seems like a pretty racist "Chavez is an ape" cartoon? brugroffil fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 03:46
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:Aren't you attacking someone's credibility based on their beliefs in something stupid, then using actual nazi propoganda words likr the "holodomor" What the gently caress is wrong with you
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Sep 9, 2019 03:52
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