|
Bob le Moche posted:EDIT: Maybe I should write a post about what imperialism is because it seems that to most it's nothing but a buzzword meaning "bad thing" but when I do use it I actually mean something very specific. Maybe you should shut the gently caress up about Venezuela since you clearly know nothing about it. Go make an anti-Imperialism thread and stay there.
|
#
¿
Jul 13, 2017 19:28
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 10:53 |
|
|
lollontee posted:You know, the only people I can remember ever talking earnestly whether some dude or another was white or not, were Americans. This whole race thing you got going is a psychosis solely of your own creation, mate. Yeah as a Canadian, from Toronto, Rubio's looks just some random white guy. Considering how many Italians and Portuguese immigrants are here, what else would he be?
|
|
#
¿
Sep 23, 2017 16:32
|
|
|
Godspeed sir. Safe travels and I hope we soon see you post 'I have arrived safely!'
|
|
#
¿
Dec 15, 2017 12:48
|
|
|
Has the recent influx of Maduro apologists et al. faded yet? I gave up a few days ago. 
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 09:24
|
|
|
CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:
Newsflash: Russia *is* imperialist.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 16:08
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:I guess if you don't want countries to fall into the Russian/Chinese orbit you shouldn't try to coup their governments. Clearly you *do* coup them in that case. During the Cold War, there'd be pictures of some USMC colonel with his feet up on Maduro's desk by now. Thankfully, we haven't.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 16:32
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:So it's not a coup if there aren't uniformed American soldiers invading a Latin American country, like in Honduras? Can you even coup an illegitimate regime?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 16:45
|
|
|
uninterrupted posted:It’s not illegitimate just because you don’t like this. Maduro's violated the Constitution repeatedly, sorry. Did you skip over the last few years of Venezuelan politics or something? The whole Constituent Assembly process was illegal. You can't just wave that away, sorry.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 16:50
|
|
|
So to answer my prior question, no, the thread is still infested with people who clearly know more about what Venezuelans need than the actual Venezuelans who have been posting here all the time. Got it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 17:00
|
|
|
uninterrupted posted:Also there’s still no evidence the elections were rigged because they weren’t. I'm just quoting this to admire it.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 17:29
|
|
|
So basically, your source says there is no major impact of the sanctions.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 19:13
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Not being able to make new trades and purchases would be a major impact for any business. No, your source says the opposite: quote:Petróleos de Venezuela, the national oil company responsible for most of Venezuela’s economic activity and foreign exchange, is impacted by the sanctions only in a limited way. Maybe you should read it again?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 19:17
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Sure is weird how you deny the real reason: the complete collapse of the currency and banking system domestically, due to absolutely insane and corruption prone schemes of price controls without subsidy, and foreign exchange control with special rights for administartion-favored enterprises and individuals. He can't blame *that* on US imperialism though, so it's a non-issue. He isn't interested in Venezuela except as a club to beat the US with. Venezuelans simply have no agency. As another poster said, the opposition to Maduro only exists as "expats, bondholders, and the wealthy". Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jan 27, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 19:21
|
|
|
To be open, I've read this thread for a few years, but since I'm a Canadian who lives in Denmark, I largely lurk, because this is a place to *learn* from. There used to be a good collection of Venezuelan posters here, watching them flee the country or simply go silent has been depressing and frightening. But to some they are all "expats, bondholders, and the wealthy" so their voices can be ignored.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 19:51
|
|
|
But.. they *are* corruption schemes.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 20:08
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Proposal 497 of the Popular Will party platform outlines an intention to privatize the state oil company. The above text you quote does *not* mention privatizing PDVSA, though. It *does* say they seek to increase private participation in the (oil) industry, which probably does mean seeking investment to reverse all the damage done by the systematic looting of PDVSA by the government and increase output. I point out this was normal practice under Chavez. PDVSA regularly partnered with foreign oil firms, even after 2008 when Exxon and Conoco left the Orinoco projects. https://www.rigzone.com/news/oil_gas/a/57494/pdvsa_aims_for_57b_investment_in_former_exxon_venture/
|
|
#
¿
Jan 27, 2019 21:55
|
|
|
"President of the Bolivarian Thread on Venezuela" possibly
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 13:11
|
|
|
uninterrupted posted:fnox is incredibly biased again any anti-coup arguments. While nobody here is pro-US-coup, why don't you go make your own thread where you can keep raving and not disturb the sane posters?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 17:44
|
|
|
uninterrupted posted:Because Guaido seems much more concerned about seizing money than, say, his constitutional requirement (absurdity of the opposition argument notwithstanding) to hold elections within 30 days of his self-coronation? As opposed to your boy Maduro and cronies just pocketing the money, not to do this would be almost criminally irresponsible.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 22:04
|
|
|
Xae posted:They don't do that either. Eruptions of ignorance from the USPOL thread coming over here to scream about Trump attacking Venezuela people's hero Maduro.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 22:23
|
|
|
A Typical Goon posted:"Ignorant" lol Yes, ignorant about the situation in Venezuela and only reacting to the most recent headlines. It's like clockwork - a USPOL* bimbo eruption anytime Venezuela makes it onto the front page. They show up here, scream about the pending/ongoing "US coup" and how anyone against Maduro is a fascist, eat a sixer or two, and then hopefully gently caress off again. *the UKMT is also a reliable source of tankies coming over to lecture the Venezuelans here how they are all terrible people Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 22:36 on Jan 28, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 22:33
|
|
|
Furia posted:How do you know that? He's from the UKMT. He just *knows*.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 23:02
|
|
|
Furia posted:Would be very nice if they read up on the couple years’ worth of news and literature they ignored until they got a notification on twitter before posting uninformed opinions but I guess you can’t have everything in life Not going to happen. These 'useful idiots' aren't interested in supporting the people of Venezuela, they just knee-jerk oppose the USA. They don't have actual positive solutions, they only criticize the evil USA. If the USA is against Maduro, the Useful Idiot brigade must support him. Anyone who is therefore opposed to Maduro is a US stooge, obviously including all the venegoons in this thread.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 23:20
|
|
|
Jose posted:nice meltdown Go cry more in the UKMT about it maybe?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 23:24
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:If it was just licenses for exploration then it would be one thing, but if the plan is to sell off exploitation rights then it would indicate an intention to partially privatize Venezuelan oil. His party has also proposed reforms which would allow for private investment in PDVSA, which is just a legalistic form of corruption from the perspective of people who want to keep their resources nationalized. Seriouspost - is there an link to the privatization plan? PDVSA should remain the heritage of the people of Venezuela. Thanks.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 28, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
Some posters seem unable to grasp one can oppose both Maduro *and* active US intervention. Lecturing Venezuelans that they should somehow stop protesting Maduro's regime that is robbing and starving them because the US suddenly got involved is insulting to the people suffering daily.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 07:38
|
|
|
not a cult posted:Actually, those posters are grasping that pretty well, they just see it as what it is - a morally correct but ultimately weak stance that will see you either ruled by a US puppet or embroiled in a civil war. The opposition could renounce US support; but given the reality is that Maduro already is starving Venezuela and has overthrown the Constitution, I personally don't blame them for being open to it. It's beyond me at least to tell starving people they have to keep starving. Ideally Maduro would go peacefully, as a number of venegoons have agreed, and food aid can start flowing.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 08:12
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:The current state of things is sort of like the Millgram experiment, except there's a person who's actually being tortured and the experimenter is the guy you're trying to get to leave the room. You push the button and the person on the other side of the line goes through excruciating pain. Nothing happens. You push the button again and the person who is strapped to the torture device howls in agony. Nothing happens. You push the button again and still the experimenter who isn't going through any kind of pain won't leave the room. Except the person causing the pain in your scenario is Maduro, the experimenter
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 08:17
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Ok so let's extrapolate how you're interpreting this analogy. So you, the guy pushing the button thinks that Maduro the experimenter is going to get tortured until he leaves the room. Yet every time you push the button the other person gets tortured instead. Do you see the problem here? No, the reality is the experimenter is repeatedly pushing the button as the victim screams; you've been trying to get him to stop by peaceful protest for years, all the experimenter does is laugh and crank up the voltage. Your button is connected to nothing, apparently. Someone outside bursts in and threatens the experimenter unless he leaves. You pop up and start defending the experimenter, and lecturing the protesters, and are shocked to find them not siding with you.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 08:29
|
|
|
not a cult posted:The reality is that American sanctions and American foreign influence are starving Venezuela. The ruling party in my country is also kleptomaniac but stores aren't empty and people aren't starving. But they're also firmly capitalist and dedicated to the neoliberal handbook. The reality is that Maduro and cronies are starving Venezuela, and have been for quite a long time. Welcome to the Venezuela Thread, it's not like this all kicked off last week.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 08:50
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:What do you think is going to be the result of the American sanctions regime which is waged on the opposition's behalf? Probably very little, actually, much like the previous sanctions. I think you're actually a reasonable person. I suspect we agree 100% that the US getting involved, under *any* president, is A Bad Idea. I hope we also agree on something like most of: - massive, immediate food aid - a return to the 2015 Constitution - resignation of the current government - dissolution of the Constituent Assembly - an interim *civilian* government put in to oversee fresh elections - keeping PDVSA public - no military action by US, Brazil, etc. - support for return of refugees - aid, not IMF loans etc. Ideally Maduro and co. would be stripped of their looted assets and punished, but if letting them go into exile is the price of a peaceful transition, then that's the price. Nobody here likes the US or Brazil getting involved. Nobody. But likewise, nobody can possibly countenance maintaining the current government here that has mismanaged Venezuelans into poverty and hunger. When you're drowning, you rarely stop to cavil about who throws you a rope.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 09:24
|
|
|
Homeless Friend posted:Unless I'm reading the situation wrong: lets say they print even more money to pay the workers to keep producing the oil, which they'll have to find ways to sell. No doubt below market or maybe not be able to at all. Or they might be straight up laid off. It seems to me this is going to contract the purchasing power for the ordinary person, even more than it already has been happening, because there will be less foreign dollars and more domestic bolivars. Considering 90% of the country is in poverty, I conclude it's the same situation. Just worse. As far as I've seen, they can't produce enough oil to fulfil existing contracts with India and China as it is, no? The ongoing multi-year decay of oil production resulting from the looting of PDVSA by the government is independent of any sanctions.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 09:32
|
|
|
Pener Kropoopkin posted:Then I guess we shouldn't do any sanctions at all, since they do so little. Might as well just not. I hope you're in favor of the ones targeting specific named regime persons who have looted billions at least?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 09:36
|
|
|
Fallen Hamprince posted:The economic crisis in Venezuela significantly predates this decision. This will obviously have an impact on government revenues, though, which will end up having undesirable knock-on effects. There's no way PDVSA recognizes the opposition. The only way this doesn't exacerbate hunger is if immediate food aid is sent. Maduro won't permit it, can the opposition really get it distributed effectively in the face of government opposition?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 09:54
|
|
|
not a cult posted:Is what I'll be saying to you when the puppet you're pinning your hopes on turns out to be a puppet. As opposed to supporting Maduro like you do? At least he has a *chance* of a better outcome, which is more than you can say.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 11:35
|
|
|
not a cult posted:What better outcome? A neolib "interim" president who owes his position to such luminaries as Donald Trump and Bolsonaro? You may be right, but you offer literally no alternative ideas. If we do what you want, things will continue to get worse and worse. No food, no medicine; just more suffering, refugees, and death.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 13:40
|
|
|
Schadenboner posted:But at least he’ll be starving the proles to own da libs! I think everyone agrees that any time the US gets actively involved in opposing a government, there's a pretty horrific track record of "and then what happened?" So I can understand anyone who takes a strong, principled stand on opposing US involvement in this sort of situation. It is maybe a bit like Chomsky said, that he felt that US citizens like himself have a particular responsibility to oppose their government interfering in other countries. So am I optimistic? No. But I remain hopeful that something better can emerge. Maduro has set a very, very low bar.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 13:55
|
|
|
CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:This is a cheap emotional appeal people use to justify all kinds of morally abhorrent things. Also happens to be true.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 29, 2019 15:42
|
|
|
Negrostrike posted:Who's gonna steal the Estrella de la Muerte plans? Los espias Bothaneses
|
|
#
¿
Jan 30, 2019 21:07
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 14, 2024 10:53 |
|
|
Presenting Nipples posted:The US is doing a complete economic blockade of the country... The above is, like, false?
|
|
#
¿
Jan 31, 2019 17:18
|
|